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Newbury Today Forum _ Newbury News _ Boxing Day Hunt

Posted by: Strafin Dec 27 2016, 07:20 PM

http://www.newburytoday.co.uk/news/home/20218/traditional-boxing-day-hunt-in-lambourn.html

I don't come on much anymore as I don't live close, but I try and keep up to date with my hometown. I am also vehemently against fox hunting and gave been looking into which groups drag hunt, which ones pretend and which ones advocate fox hunting. Woth support at an all time low, I was surprised to see that the NWN is promoting the hunt and the pictures as some sort of community event, and will be running a "feature" on it in the next copy of the paper very dissapointing.

Posted by: gel Dec 28 2016, 12:08 PM

Agree; appalling past time, especially if you have feathers or fur.
Getting enjoyment by watching animals being pulled to pieces shows a very warped DNA.
Of course Cameron resumed the disgusting past time as soon as he stepped down, and reverting to type.

Posted by: Andy Capp Dec 28 2016, 01:11 PM

I quite agree about recreational hunting, although officially it wasn't a fox hunt, or any other live bait hunt; however, if we are to wish for an impartial press then we shouldn't stand in the way of a reporting of a legal event, even if it is something for which we object.

Equally, until I become a vegan, I find it somewhat hypocritical for me to criticise activities as being cruel or abhorrent, even if I do think they are.

Posted by: JeffG Dec 28 2016, 02:47 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Dec 28 2016, 01:11 PM) *
I quite agree about recreational hunting, although officially it wasn't a fox hunt, or any other live bait hunt; however, if we are to wish for an impartial press then we shouldn't stand in the way of a reporting of a legal event, even if it is something for which we object.

Equally, until I become a vegan, I find it somewhat hypocritical for me to criticise activities as being cruel or abhorrent, even if I do think they are.

I agree that being a drag hunt, they weren't hunting live quarry, but that's what hunts were set up for, and given half a legal chance they would be back to it in an instant.

Re the vegan bit, you are not being hypocritical. I don't think you can equate eating humanely-killed meat with tearing inedible wild animals apart.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Dec 28 2016, 06:21 PM

See old Nigel Farage was out with the hunt on boxing day in his mustard cordrouys. Marvellous man. laugh.gif

Posted by: je suis Charlie Dec 28 2016, 06:34 PM

QUOTE (JeffG @ Dec 28 2016, 03:47 PM) *
I agree that being a drag hunt, they weren't hunting live quarry, but that's what hunts were set up for, and given half a legal chance they would be back to it in an instant.

Re the vegan bit, you are not being hypocritical. I don't think you can equate eating humanely-killed meat with tearing inedible wild animals apart.

There is very little of the "humane" element in most slaughter houses. Anyone remember the Bernard Mathew's slaughter house where workers used live birds as footballs? That's the real cost of Turkey Twizzlers!

Posted by: x2lls Dec 28 2016, 08:23 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Dec 28 2016, 06:21 PM) *
See old Nigel Farage was out with the hunt on boxing day in his mustard cordrouys. Marvellous man. laugh.gif



Oh yes, let's all have a group hug and another excuse to condemn someone doing something perfectly legal.
You lost the campaign, get over it.

Posted by: JeffG Dec 28 2016, 08:53 PM

QUOTE (x2lls @ Dec 28 2016, 08:23 PM) *
Oh yes, let's all have a group hug and another excuse to condemn someone doing something perfectly legal.
You lost the campaign, get over it.

Nothing to do with Brexit. Farage is just an odious man who sucks up to the arch-demon Trump.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Dec 28 2016, 09:40 PM

QUOTE (JeffG @ Dec 28 2016, 08:53 PM) *
Nothing to do with Brexit. Farage is just an odious man who sucks up to the arch-demon Trump.


In your opinion. Other people see him as something different. Why is Trump a demon by the way? I personally preferred him to Clinton.

Posted by: spartacus Dec 29 2016, 12:01 AM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Dec 28 2016, 09:40 PM) *
Why is Trump a demon by the way?

Because the Daily Mail Editor-in-Chief says so.... or was it the Guardian editor... I forget... but the followers of those versions of the printed press will regurgitate it nonetheless

Posted by: spartacus Dec 29 2016, 12:07 AM

Boo!! Disgusting!!! Wearing a red jacket and riding a horse through the countryside with a very slight chance every blue moon of catching an animal . Shameful!! Persecute these despicable beings!!



Slaughter without stunning of tens of thousands of animals every day of every week...... let's brush over that in case we upset the minorities....

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Dec 29 2016, 06:06 AM

QUOTE (spartacus @ Dec 29 2016, 12:07 AM) *
Boo!! Disgusting!!! Wearing a red jacket and riding a horse through the countryside with a very slight chance every blue moon of catching an animal . Shameful!! Persecute these despicable beings!!



Slaughter without stunning of tens of thousands of animals every day of every week...... let's brush over that in case we upset the minorities....


Both are just plain wrong. But its PC to diss the boxing day hunt. The slaughter of animals without stunning is religion innit. Gotta make exceptions... Brush that one over.

Posted by: JeffG Dec 29 2016, 09:31 AM

QUOTE (spartacus @ Dec 29 2016, 12:01 AM) *
Because the Daily Mail Editor-in-Chief says so.... or was it the Guardian editor... I forget... but the followers of those versions of the printed press will regurgitate it nonetheless

Bollocks! I don't read either of those newspapers or any newspaper in fact. I have seen the man in action and formed my own opinion (yes, some of us are capable of doing that, you might be surprised to hear).

Oh, and I don't eat halal or kosher meat (or veal for that matter) so your emotive juxtaposition is irrelevant to what I said.

Posted by: Biker1 Dec 29 2016, 09:34 AM

QUOTE (Strafin @ Dec 27 2016, 08:20 PM) *
http://www.newburytoday.co.uk/news/home/20218/traditional-boxing-day-hunt-in-lambourn.html

I don't come on much anymore as I don't live close, but I try and keep up to date with my hometown. I am also vehemently against fox hunting and gave been looking into which groups drag hunt, which ones pretend and which ones advocate fox hunting. Woth support at an all time low, I was surprised to see that the NWN is promoting the hunt and the pictures as some sort of community event, and will be running a "feature" on it in the next copy of the paper very dissapointing.

Yep, another main reason why I don't buy it any more.
Someone raised the issue of halal.
Another abhorrent practice in the name of religion which should also not be tolerated in this, which I believe, is still a non-muslim country?
Mistreating animals for "sport" laugh.gif and or religious reasons is abhorrent.
(There, I used the word twice!)

Posted by: je suis Charlie Dec 29 2016, 09:49 AM

QUOTE (JeffG @ Dec 29 2016, 10:31 AM) *
Bollocks! I don't read either of those newspapers or any newspaper in fact. I have seen the man in action and formed my own opinion (yes, some of us are capable of doing that, you might be surprised to hear).

Oh, and I don't eat halal or kosher meat (or veal for that matter) so your emotive juxtaposition is irrelevant to what I said.

That you know of, done any farm to table investigation lately? A surprising number of halal slaughter houses supply meat to the trade now.

Posted by: Andy Capp Dec 29 2016, 10:28 AM

QUOTE (JeffG @ Dec 28 2016, 02:47 PM) *
Re: the vegan bit, you are not being hypocritical. I don't think you can equate eating humanely-killed meat with tearing inedible wild animals apart.

I wasn't equating anything. Given a choice, I'd rather be a fox than a cow or a lamb.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Dec 29 2016, 02:13 PM

QUOTE (spartacus @ Dec 29 2016, 12:07 AM) *
Boo!! Disgusting!!! Wearing a red jacket and riding a horse through the countryside with a very slight chance every blue moon of catching an animal . Shameful!! Persecute these despicable beings!!



Slaughter without stunning of tens of thousands of animals every day of every week...... let's brush over that in case we upset the minorities....


BUT.... Newres and co cant bring themselves to condemn this? Wonder why? If its wrong its wrong. Just like hounds tearing foxes apart. Or are foxes different?

Posted by: JeffG Dec 29 2016, 05:12 PM

I think we all condemn religious slaughter, i.e halal and kosher.

Regarding halal meat getting into the food chain, I believe there was an outcry when it was discovered some supermarkets were selling halal meat not labelled as such.

I just checked and it seems that all Sainsbury's halal and kosher products are labelled. New Zealand lamb at other supermarkets is halal and unlabelled as such.

I think you'd be safe eating pork smile.gif

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Dec 29 2016, 05:26 PM

QUOTE (JeffG @ Dec 29 2016, 05:12 PM) *
I think we all condemn religious slaughter, i.e halal and kosher.

Regarding halal meat getting into the food chain, I believe there was an outcry when it was discovered some supermarkets were selling halal meat not labelled as such.

I just checked and it seems that all Sainsbury's halal and kosher products are labelled. New Zealand lamb at other supermarkets is halal and unlabelled as such.

I think you'd be safe eating pork smile.gif


Thanks for that info. I have occasionally purchased new zealand lamb from tesco when no GB lamb was available. I won't again.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Dec 29 2016, 05:47 PM

QUOTE (JeffG @ Dec 29 2016, 06:12 PM) *
I think we all condemn religious slaughter, i.e halal and kosher.

Regarding halal meat getting into the food chain, I believe there was an outcry when it was discovered some supermarkets were selling halal meat not labelled as such.

I just checked and it seems that all Sainsbury's halal and kosher products are labelled. New Zealand lamb at other supermarkets is halal and unlabelled as such.

I think you'd be safe eating pork smile.gif

Thanks, good input.

Posted by: Andy Capp Dec 29 2016, 06:08 PM

A letter from Tesco I found on Facebook:

Hi Debbie,

In the UK anyone carrying out slaughter must ensure that the animal is stunned before the slaughter takes place. There are however long-standing provisions in UK law which, subject to specific requirements, allow the slaughter of animals without stunning to meet Jewish and Muslim religious requirements.


We require all slaughter processes for Tesco branded products to meet our stringent animal welfare requirements, without exception. In every case, the animal is stunned before slaughter. We do however, in some stores, sell branded meat or host concessions that sell halal and kosher meat.

Some customers specifically ask us about the halal and kosher meat we sell and in particular whether the animals killed according to these methods will be stunned before slaughter. We have included some information below which we hope will help those customers who have queries.

Halal meat can come from both animals which are stunned and un-stunned before slaughter.

Like all other major UK supermarkets, we source from suppliers who serve Muslim as well as non-Muslim customers. Some of these suppliers process all their meat to Halal standards which allows them to export parts of the carcass not used by European customers to the Middle East, minimising food waste. For example, the vast majority of New Zealand lamb is processed to Halal standards. All the meat we sell from these suppliers is stunned before slaughter; the only difference being that Halal meat has received a blessing. We do not specify to these suppliers that halal practices, such as a blessing, should be followed; we therefore believe it would be misleading for all customers to label the meat as halal.

Kaz - Customer Care

Posted by: Andy Capp Dec 29 2016, 06:11 PM

Bearing in mind recent meat supply scandals, can we really be confident about the source of our meat, regardless of labelling?

Posted by: je suis Charlie Dec 29 2016, 06:14 PM

Hah! I wonder if the horsemeat they put into their lasagne was halal??

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Dec 29 2016, 06:55 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Dec 29 2016, 06:08 PM) *
A letter from Tesco I found on Facebook:

Hi Debbie,

In the UK anyone carrying out slaughter must ensure that the animal is stunned before the slaughter takes place. There are however long-standing provisions in UK law which, subject to specific requirements, allow the slaughter of animals without stunning to meet Jewish and Muslim religious requirements.


We require all slaughter processes for Tesco branded products to meet our stringent animal welfare requirements, without exception. In every case, the animal is stunned before slaughter. We do however, in some stores, sell branded meat or host concessions that sell halal and kosher meat.

Some customers specifically ask us about the halal and kosher meat we sell and in particular whether the animals killed according to these methods will be stunned before slaughter. We have included some information below which we hope will help those customers who have queries.

Halal meat can come from both animals which are stunned and un-stunned before slaughter.

Like all other major UK supermarkets, we source from suppliers who serve Muslim as well as non-Muslim customers. Some of these suppliers process all their meat to Halal standards which allows them to export parts of the carcass not used by European customers to the Middle East, minimising food waste. For example, the vast majority of New Zealand lamb is processed to Halal standards. All the meat we sell from these suppliers is stunned before slaughter; the only difference being that Halal meat has received a blessing. We do not specify to these suppliers that halal practices, such as a blessing, should be followed; we therefore believe it would be misleading for all customers to label the meat as halal.

Kaz - Customer Care


Im sure "Kaz" in customer care has a working knowledge of what Tesco slaughter houses do..... Then again shes probably pain £7.80 an hour to repeat the tesco brand "mantra". And if she didnt she'd it "may" hinder any possible chance of a promotion...😕

Posted by: Andy Capp Dec 29 2016, 07:04 PM

As far as I know, Tesco have no slaughter houses; however, according to the spiel, all Tesco supplied meat is stunned before slaughter.

But for me, critising halal slaughter is like criticising murderers using a knife instead of a gun.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Dec 29 2016, 07:38 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Dec 29 2016, 07:04 PM) *
But for me, critising halal slaughter is like criticising murderers using a knife instead of a gun.


You dont condemn halal slaughter then....ok with you?

Posted by: Biker1 Dec 29 2016, 07:51 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Dec 29 2016, 08:04 PM) *
But for me, critising halal slaughter is like criticising murderers using a knife instead of a gun.

Eh?? unsure.gif
We are talking about the slaughter of animals here for meat not murder!
Animals slaughtered in the conventional way (if there is a better way to put it) are (should be) stunned before slaghter.
Halal method cruelly kills them with a crude knife while still concious, in the name of religion. Horrible!
So yes, I do condemn halal slaughter. It is not part of British culture or morality! angry.gif

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Dec 29 2016, 08:05 PM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Dec 29 2016, 07:51 PM) *
It is not part of British culture or morality! angry.gif

Give it a few years... The Andy and Newres apologists will make it the norm. All the while chasing a few dozen knobs on horseback in the Countryside shouting "shame".

Posted by: Andy Capp Dec 29 2016, 09:21 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Dec 29 2016, 08:05 PM) *
Give it a few years... The Andy and Newres apologists will make it the norm. All the while chasing a few dozen knobs on horseback in the Countryside shouting "shame".

You are being idiotic!

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Dec 29 2016, 09:24 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Dec 29 2016, 09:21 PM) *
You are being idiotic!


Why? Please explain. laugh.gif

Posted by: Andy Capp Dec 29 2016, 11:06 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Dec 29 2016, 09:24 PM) *
Why? Please explain. laugh.gif

Because you are offering stupid comments about me that have no reasonable foundation.

I believe it hypocritical to object to certain methods of slaughter over another. To me it is all slaughter and all to some extent cruel.

However, being halal meat doesn't necessarily mean the creature was not stunned before slaughter. at the last count it is thought that ~84% of religious slaughter in the UK involved stunning before slaughter.

All that being said, I have little faith in the animal welfare agencies being able to uphold good animal treatment.

Posted by: Andy Capp Dec 29 2016, 11:18 PM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Dec 29 2016, 07:51 PM) *
Eh?? unsure.gif
We are talking about the slaughter of animals here for meat not murder!

According to my girlfriend and I would imagine most vegetarians and the like would say slaughter for meat is murder!

QUOTE
Animals slaughtered in the conventional way (if there is a better way to put it) are (should be) stunned before slaghter.
Halal method cruelly kills them with a crude knife while still concious, in the name of religion. Horrible!
So yes, I do condemn halal slaughter. It is not part of British culture or morality! angry.gif

Well according to reports most halal slaughter in the UK involves stunning first.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Dec 29 2016, 11:57 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Dec 29 2016, 11:18 PM) *
According to my girlfriend and I would imagine most vegetarians and the like would say slaughter for meat is murder!


Well according to reports most halal slaughter in the UK involves stunning first.


Only one thing for it... As we cant trust where our meat comes from better go hunting...🐎😮

Posted by: JeffG Dec 30 2016, 10:04 AM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Dec 29 2016, 05:47 PM) *
Thanks, good input.

A few links so you don't just have to take my word for it. A caveat: some are from the Daily Mail and date back to 2010.

2014, Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2014/may/08/why-does-supply-halal-meat-outstrip-demand
2014, Telegraph: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/10816716/Find-out-which-supermarkets-and-restaurants-sell-halal-meat.html
2014, Telegraph: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/foodanddrinknews/10816579/Supermarkets-must-identify-halal-meat.html
2014, Mail: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2626032/Asda-Sainsburys-Tesco-sell-halal-meat-live-kill-animals-not-stunned.html
2010, Mail: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1315278/Top-supermarkets-secretly-sell-halal-Sainsburys-Tesco-Waitrose-M-S-dont-tell-meat-ritually-slaughtered.html

Some of the comments on a 2015 Express article are pretty illiterate. There is one from someone who qualifies for the "nutjob" accolade: "How much of the sales [of halal meat] go towards funding terrorism?"
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/583152/vets-halal-slaughter-British-Veterinary-Association-European-Commission

Edit: I had not noticed the second page before putting this together. Having read the comments above, maybe the supermarkets have put their house in order.

Posted by: Biker1 Dec 30 2016, 10:16 AM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Dec 30 2016, 12:18 AM) *
According to my girlfriend and I would imagine most vegetarians and the like would say slaughter for meat is murder!

Murder - "the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another".

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Dec 30 2016, 12:18 AM) *
Well according to reports most halal slaughter in the UK involves stunning first.

Interesting. I hope you're right.

Posted by: Andy Capp Dec 30 2016, 11:34 AM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Dec 30 2016, 10:16 AM) *
Murder - "the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another

That is the legal definition; however, many feel as strong about all killing of sentient beings. Those people feel just as appalled at our eating of killed animals as you do about a bunch of berks employing inefficient methods of catching a fox for fun.

Posted by: Andy Capp Dec 30 2016, 11:39 AM

QUOTE (JeffG @ Dec 30 2016, 10:04 AM) *
Having read the comments above, maybe the supermarkets have put their house in order.

They claim to have done and some research backs that up, but I have little faith in the finding's veracity, hence my reluctance to criticise one culture's slaughter methods over others', but I would never endorse stunning-free slaughter.

Before we all get smug about our Christian values and humane treatment of animals we eat, I challenge you to watch the abundance of documentaries and footage of western style slaughter houses. Notwithstanding the devastating effect meat eating has on our ecosystem.

I think if I had to kill and butcher my own meat I'd be a vegetarian.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Dec 30 2016, 07:46 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Dec 30 2016, 11:39 AM) *
I think if I had to kill and butcher my own meat I'd be a vegetarian.


Nothing to stop you Andy if thats the way you feel.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Dec 31 2016, 12:56 AM

I used to do a lot of shooting and fishing and strangely enough it tought me to respect what I killed, used every morsel and, if I couldn't use it I didn't kill it. It's strange what dressing out your own meat will do to your concept of available protien.

Posted by: newres Dec 31 2016, 07:29 AM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Dec 29 2016, 08:05 PM) *
Give it a few years... The Andy and Newres apologists will make it the norm. All the while chasing a few dozen knobs on horseback in the Countryside shouting "shame".

Actually I have no view on hunting really. It's not something I'd do as I don't like horses or killing things. Although I eat meat I really feel uncomfortable with all slaughter. I'm no lover of Muslims as you portray than I am a lover of Catholics and certainly don't like the thought of unnecessary suffering although I'm not sure that in paractice Halal is any more cruel than our own slaughterhouses.

Sorry to not fit your stereotype.

Posted by: newres Dec 31 2016, 07:30 AM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Dec 31 2016, 12:56 AM) *
I used to do a lot of shooting and fishing and strangely enough it tought me to respect what I killed, used every morsel and, if I couldn't use it I didn't kill it. It's strange what dressing out your own meat will do to your concept of available protien.

Why do I think of Hannibal when you write this?

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Dec 31 2016, 08:19 AM

QUOTE (newres @ Dec 31 2016, 07:29 AM) *
Sorry to not fit your stereotype.


Oh the irony..... laugh.gif

Posted by: newres Dec 31 2016, 09:29 AM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Dec 31 2016, 08:19 AM) *
Oh the irony..... laugh.gif

Well to drag a thread about newspaper coverage of a Boxing Day hunt into yet another anti Muslim rant conforms exactly.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Dec 31 2016, 09:32 AM

QUOTE (newres @ Dec 31 2016, 08:30 AM) *
Why do I think of Hannibal when you write this?

I have no idea why, over fertile imagination perhaps?

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Dec 31 2016, 09:39 AM

QUOTE (newres @ Dec 31 2016, 09:29 AM) *
Well to drag a thread about newspaper coverage of a Boxing Day hunt into yet another anti Muslim rant conforms exactly.

Think you may be confused old boy. I did not bring up halal. rolleyes.gif

Posted by: je suis Charlie Dec 31 2016, 10:03 AM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Dec 31 2016, 10:39 AM) *
Think you may be confused old boy. I did not bring up halal. rolleyes.gif

That reminds me, its new year's Eve, must book into the local curry house for tonight!

Posted by: Biker1 Dec 31 2016, 10:08 AM

QUOTE (newres @ Dec 31 2016, 10:29 AM) *
Well to drag a thread about newspaper coverage of a Boxing Day hunt into yet another anti Muslim rant conforms exactly.

Anti halal actually.
The subject of the way animals are killed and for what reason links the two.

Posted by: JeffG Dec 31 2016, 10:14 AM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Dec 31 2016, 10:08 AM) *
Anti halal actually.
The subject of the way animals are killed and for what reason links the two.

Exactly.

Posted by: newres Dec 31 2016, 10:49 AM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Dec 31 2016, 10:08 AM) *
Anti halal actually.
The subject of the way animals are killed and for what reason links the two.

Ah, but it wasn't like that. It was "Boo!! Disgusting!!! Wearing a red jacket and riding a horse through the countryside with a very slight chance every blue moon of catching an animal . Shameful!! Persecute these despicable beings!! Slaughter without stunning of tens of thousands of animals every day of every week...... let's brush over that in case we upset the minorities...."

And that unleashed:

"Both are just plain wrong. But its PC to diss the boxing day hunt. The slaughter of animals without stunning is religion innit. Gotta make exceptions... Brush that one over."


Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Dec 31 2016, 11:16 AM

QUOTE (newres @ Dec 31 2016, 10:49 AM) *
Ah, but it wasn't like that. It was "Boo!! Disgusting!!! Wearing a red jacket and riding a horse through the countryside with a very slight chance every blue moon of catching an animal . Shameful!! Persecute these despicable beings!! Slaughter without stunning of tens of thousands of animals every day of every week...... let's brush over that in case we upset the minorities...."

And that unleashed:

"Both are just plain wrong. But its PC to diss the boxing day hunt. The slaughter of animals without stunning is religion innit. Gotta make exceptions... Brush that one over."


Untrue? Also I did not mention any particular religion. Personally I think killing animals without stunning them is an abhorrent practice. But hey we are all entitled to opinions. Im also not PC and call things out when I think they are wrong. Im not always right but at least I stimulate debate. rolleyes.gif

Posted by: newres Dec 31 2016, 11:40 AM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Dec 31 2016, 11:16 AM) *
Untrue? Also I did not mention any particular religion. Personally I think killing animals without stunning them is an abhorrent practice. But hey we are all entitled to opinions. Im also not PC and call things out when I think they are wrong. Im not always right but at least I stimulate debate. rolleyes.gif

But there is a big difference between killing animals for fun and killing them for food. I personally think it's hypocritical to say one method of slaughtering is ok but not another. Any slaughterhouse is a pretty horrible thing to contemplate. And to make a broader point imposing our values on other faiths only ever seems to end badly. If you want to know, I find many aspects of Middle Eastern culture abhorrent, but I don't think it's for us to get involved.

Posted by: Andy Capp Dec 31 2016, 12:30 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Dec 30 2016, 07:46 PM) *
Nothing to stop you Andy if thats the way you feel.

There is: I like eating meat, so the 'solution' is to not be a hypocrite and a yah boo-ist! tongue.gif

Posted by: Andy Capp Dec 31 2016, 01:54 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Dec 31 2016, 11:40 AM) *
But there is a big difference between killing animals for fun and killing them for food. I personally think it's hypocritical to say one method of slaughtering is ok but not another. Any slaughterhouse is a pretty horrible thing to contemplate. And to make a broader point imposing our values on other faiths only ever seems to end badly. If you want to know, I find many aspects of Middle Eastern culture abhorrent, but I don't think it's for us to get involved.

I'm mindful that I'm not a vegetarian and a soft atheist, but my view is our meat should be stunned before slaughter without exception. I would also strengthen abattoir practice including unannounced inspections and possibly video cameras.

Posted by: newres Dec 31 2016, 03:08 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Dec 31 2016, 01:54 PM) *
I'm mindful that I'm not a vegetarian and a soft atheist, but my view is our meat should be stunned before slaughter without exception. I would also strengthen abattoir practice including unannounced inspections and possibly video cameras.

I think I would agree that animals should be stunned first, although probably the ideal way is a bullet through the head. The way it's done is pretty vile whichever and I suspect the treatment is pretty regularly inhumane.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jan 1 2017, 04:28 AM

QUOTE (newres @ Dec 31 2016, 04:08 PM) *
I think I would agree that animals should be stunned first, although probably the ideal way is a bullet through the head. The way it's done is pretty vile whichever and I suspect the treatment is pretty regularly inhumane.

"A halal poultry company supplying major supermarkets in Britain has admitted failings after its factory workers boiled chickens alive."

"The company, co-owned by "chicken king" multi-millionaire Ranjit Singh Boparan, was this month fined £8,000 and ordered to pay £6,000 costs after admitting causing unnecessary suffering to the chickens, The Times reported."

From today's news feed.

Posted by: newres Jan 1 2017, 07:11 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jan 1 2017, 04:28 AM) *
"A halal poultry company supplying major supermarkets in Britain has admitted failings after its factory workers boiled chickens alive."

"The company, co-owned by "chicken king" multi-millionaire Ranjit Singh Boparan, was this month fined £8,000 and ordered to pay £6,000 costs after admitting causing unnecessary suffering to the chickens, The Times reported."

From today's news feed.

I'm guessing these abuses only take place in halal factories in much the same way that grooming of young girls is only carried out by Asians.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jan 1 2017, 09:08 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jan 1 2017, 07:11 PM) *
I'm guessing these abuses only take place in halal factories in much the same way that grooming of young girls is only carried out by Asians.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38457257

Yes evil exists in all parts of society. But... Overall I think the traditional western culture of the last 50 years affords more respect to women. Perhaps I am wrong and all these stories are pedalled by the right wing facist BBC.... rolleyes.gif

Posted by: newres Jan 1 2017, 09:29 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jan 1 2017, 09:08 PM) *
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38457257

Yes evil exists in all parts of society. But... Overall I think the traditional western culture of the last 50 years affords more respect to women. Perhaps I am wrong and all these stories are pedalled by the right wing facist BBC.... rolleyes.gif

I wonder if the domestic violence court cases back that up.

And doubtless all interferers of young boys are football coaches...... this week. rolleyes.gif


Posted by: Andy Capp Jan 1 2017, 09:30 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jan 1 2017, 09:08 PM) *
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38457257

Yes evil exists in all parts of society. But... Overall I think the traditional western culture of the last 50 years affords more respect to women.

Provided they look sexy.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jan 1 2017, 10:57 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Jan 1 2017, 09:30 PM) *
Provided they look sexy.

Speak for yourself chap. Ive always opened doors for women and been polite. Occasionally I get abuse for being so old fashioned. Thats just me.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jan 1 2017, 11:01 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jan 1 2017, 09:29 PM) *
I wonder if the domestic violence court cases back that up.

And doubtless all interferers of young boys are football coaches...... this week. rolleyes.gif


You are blind sir. And choose to be.

Posted by: Andy Capp Jan 1 2017, 11:31 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jan 1 2017, 10:57 PM) *
Speak for yourself chap. Ive always opened doors for women and been polite. Occasionally I get abuse for being so old fashioned. Thats just me.

You might have missed my point; however, one only has to look at a magazine stand or MTV to witness the West's respect for women.

As it happens I offer the same courtesy to anyone, regardless of appearance.

Posted by: Biker1 Jan 2 2017, 10:14 AM

QUOTE (newres @ Jan 1 2017, 10:29 PM) *
I wonder if the domestic violence court cases back that up.

Well you could try "googling" it and see!
Also, while you're at it try the same for ......
FGM
Forced marriage, and
"Honour" based violence.

Posted by: newres Jan 2 2017, 03:43 PM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Jan 2 2017, 10:14 AM) *
Well you could try "googling" it and see!
Also, while you're at it try the same for ......
FGM
Forced marriage, and
"Honour" based violence.

On FGM, have a watch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yV0QXO6YfzAb

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jan 2 2017, 05:36 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jan 2 2017, 03:43 PM) *
On FGM, have a watch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yV0QXO6YfzAb


Eritrea is roughly 50% Islam. Don't believe the CNN narrative. Its a bit like believing Fox!!! It is the Clinton News Network as is Fox the Trump News Network. Both have "agendas".👎

Posted by: Biker1 Jan 2 2017, 06:07 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jan 2 2017, 04:43 PM) *
On FGM, have a watch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yV0QXO6YfzAb

go yo youtube and there is always a https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nM9f8CTypsU

Posted by: newres Jan 2 2017, 07:41 PM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Jan 2 2017, 06:07 PM) *
go yo youtube and there is always a https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nM9f8CTypsU

That's actually laughable. You can find anything on the internet, but it doesn't actually appear to challenge any facts if you can get past the opening insults.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jan 2 2017, 08:36 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jan 2 2017, 07:41 PM) *
That's actually laughable. You can find anything on the internet, but it doesn't actually appear to challenge any facts if you can get past the opening insults.


http://dilbert.com/strip/2016-06-15

laugh.gif

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jan 3 2017, 01:34 AM

ROFLMAO!!

Posted by: Biker1 Jan 3 2017, 06:14 AM

QUOTE (newres @ Jan 2 2017, 08:41 PM) *
That's actually laughable. You can find anything on the internet,

Precisely my point!

Posted by: newres Jan 3 2017, 08:01 AM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Jan 3 2017, 06:14 AM) *
Precisely my point!

Debate on the internet is pointless then? But just as a last go:

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/oct/02/reza-aslan/fact-checking-reza-aslans-retort-bill-maher/

Posted by: newres Jan 3 2017, 08:11 AM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jan 2 2017, 08:36 PM) *
http://dilbert.com/strip/2016-06-15

laugh.gif

I'm not particularly left wing. I just don't like small town, small minded bigotry.

Posted by: Andy Capp Jan 3 2017, 09:14 AM

I quite like it: it would be a boring forum if we were all like-minded elitists!

tongue.gif

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jan 4 2017, 05:09 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jan 3 2017, 08:11 AM) *
I'm not particularly left wing. I just don't like small town, small minded bigotry.


I know. Shocking. Everywhere in the Country apart from London has small minded bigoted union jack waving facist racist white supremacist UKIPPERS making up the majority of the population. I think London should perhaps split from the rest of the UK. You could make the M25 the border. laugh.gif

Posted by: newres Jan 5 2017, 01:20 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jan 4 2017, 05:09 PM) *
I know. Shocking. Everywhere in the Country apart from London has small minded bigoted union jack waving facist racist white supremacist UKIPPERS making up the majority of the population. I think London should perhaps split from the rest of the UK. You could make the M25 the border. laugh.gif

In Newbury you are in the minority. I guess because we have a generally better educated and more affluent populace. tongue.gif

Posted by: Turin Machine Jan 5 2017, 02:19 PM

Move along now. Nothing to see here.

Posted by: On the edge Jan 5 2017, 09:20 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jan 5 2017, 01:20 PM) *
In Newbury you are in the minority. I guess because we have a generally better educated and more affluent populace. tongue.gif


It's just a shame we don't do wisdom too, still can't have everything. laugh.gif

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jan 5 2017, 10:02 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jan 5 2017, 01:20 PM) *
In Newbury you are in the minority. I guess because we have a generally better educated and more affluent populace. tongue.gif


48%. Thats less than 52%. I may be in the minority in good old Newbury town but..... Tee hee I don't care! Presume you'll be tuning into Nige on LBC. You love him. You want to have his babies.😂

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