End of Empire.They liked us., Khanaqin Memory Project. Options

[Nothing Much]

A paen to some of the good bits of history.

After shafting the French at Waterloo,the Krauts at Versailles,The Eye ties at ..Oh blimey he's doing it again.
Sorry Claude et mes EU compadres. I really like everyone,and I was shocked to have caused offense.
Do Nigerians not get Nigerian scams ? Anyway I thought the name Perrerra sounded ..Oh shut up ce

Anyway I do apologise for that, and shall be more careful in future.

But politicians should think more carefully before bedfellowing odd groups in the name of Civil Liberties. Such as race cards.
The present case trumpeted by the Mail may seem like a smear but in the Labour regime of Margaret Hodge In Islington
it led to positive discrimination that directly impinged on lives of children in care homes within Islington. I do know (but can't record) that school governors were influenced. It was an unfortunate time that Dame Margaret Hodge was involved in.
Yes there was success in a huge change in LBGT rights but it allowed that PIE could lobby Government for some outlandish changes to child protection.

After annoying everyone for too long I will mention the purpose of the post. I am to be in a museum.
More on that ..only if you are nice
ce

[JeffG]

I am to be in a museum.

No, not Madame Tussauds at last? Chamber of Horrors?

[Nothing Much]

Maybe Easter Island! JeffG.
ce

[Simon Kirby]

A paen to some of the good bits of history.

After shafting the French at Waterloo,the Krauts at Versailles,The Eye ties at ..Oh blimey he's doing it again.
Sorry Claude et mes EU compadres. I really like everyone,and I was shocked to have caused offense.
Do Nigerians not get Nigerian scams ? Anyway I thought the name Perrerra sounded ..Oh shut up ce

Anyway I do apologise for that, and shall be more careful in future.

But politicians should think more carefully before bedfellowing odd groups in the name of Civil Liberties. Such as race cards.
The present case trumpeted by the Mail may seem like a smear but in the Labour regime of Margaret Hodge In Islington
it led to positive discrimination that directly impinged on lives of children in care homes within Islington. I do know (but can't record) that school governors were influenced. It was an unfortunate time that Dame Margaret Hodge was involved in.
Yes there was success in a huge change in LBGT rights but it allowed that PIE could lobby Government for some outlandish changes to child protection.

After annoying everyone for too long I will mention the purpose of the post. I am to be in a museum.
More on that ..only if you are nice
ce

Supporting Civil Liberties is always going to make you smear-fodder for the Tory right and the Hate Mail - a detestable rag that both rails against child exploitation to excite the indignation of its middle-class reactionary readership, and then runs pictorials of sexualised children for the quiet enjoyment of that same readership.

Anywho, supporting free speech on a given subject is not the same as endorsing what's said. The point is that if the state is allowed to sensor what's offensive then the state can also sensor what's critical or inconvenient, and it's a short walk from there to a totalitarian dictatorship. If those with offensive view are free to express those views then we can all judge for ourselves that they're offensive, or indeed not be overly offended.

[Nothing Much]

Oh well, If you twist my arm...

Some years before I ended up in Woolton Hill, I spent time in Iraq and Iran. Father worked in the oil fields.
He filmed locals in the areas around Khanaqin.A city about NE of Baghdad.

Over the years we transferred the stuff and eventually I posted a range of short pieces on YouTube,in about 2007.
After conflicts the area has achieved a bit of settlement and the Kurdish Regional Government seems to be top dog.

They asked a British award winning film maker Gwynne Roberts of RWF World to detail the history of Kurdish repression under
the previous regime. Loads of sad tales...
Just before Christmas he went to an oil town. In an armed convoy. Sort of like down the A339 and stop at the Swan at Newtown.
The guys he was interviewing ,sipping mint tea, puffing on scented baccy, passed him a DVD, "Have you seen this pirate copy we have ripped off of youtube?" "Kiki goes to Khanaqin?". All my postings. Hah. No wonder my viewing figures were so low.

It seems they represent a unique history of a long vanished idyllic time as far as the area was concerned. And they liked us expats.

The original cine is being re-mastered to a modern standard and will be part of a digital collection at a museum to be created in a city called Erbil. That is sort of to the right of Ur of the Chaldees, close to [b]Babylon and Nineveh.[/b] All a bit too Biblical for me.
Still it seems quite cool.
Never went to Nigeria.
ce

[Ruwan Uduwerage-...]

Perrerra

Perera is actually the misspelling of Pereira, Portuguese for pear tree, and in my case it was adopted a few hundred years ago, when the Portuguese were in what was then Ceylon, now Sri Lanka.

bedfellowing odd groups in the name of Civil Liberties

Not sure that I am doing this really, merely objecting to the use of racial stereotyping about Nigerians or for that matter anyone else. The reality is that no group is ethnically more prone to criminality than any other.

I acknowledge though the apology.

Ruwan Uduwerage-Perera

Newbury Town Council - Councillor for Victoria Ward & Deputy Leader

[motormad]

Sorry Ruwan, but the whole

"I'm the Prince of <somewhere> and my late father has passed away, please send me 5000 rupees for which I will return you £500,000 tax free" are generally from Nigeria. 419 scams they are called, I'm sure you are aware, 419 as known under the Nigerian criminal code.

is not "racial stereotyping". Statistically they ARE more prone to those types of scams...
They are not all from Nigeria. But a high percentage are from Nigeria as well as the surrounding areas, Western Africa, and also South Africa, Argentina, and other undeveloped countries.

But plenty of them do come from the UK, US, Spain, etc..

That is not racist , that is fact.
I used to read on the scambaiting websites a lot - Many were from those regions, as you could tell from the Accents on phone calls and photographs that the baiters were able to receive

http://www.caslon.com.au/419scamnote.htm

Apparently the proportion of Emails SUPPOSEDLY came from...


"Nigeria 80 (41%)
South Africa 35 (18%)
Sierra Leone 16 (8%)
Zaire 11 (6%)
Zimbabwe 10 (5%) "

Apparently.


http://www.419eater.com/html/trophy_room.htm

[Andy Capp]

Not sure that I am doing this really, merely objecting to the use of racial stereotyping about Nigerians or for that matter anyone else. The reality is that no group is ethnically more prone to criminality than any other.

Is this relevant? While I regret genuine expressions of bigotry and prejudice, I'd hope I would be able to distinguish between that and satire.

[Biker1]

Supporting Civil Liberties is always going to make you smear-fodder for the Tory right and the Hate Mail - a detestable rag that both rails against child exploitation to excite the indignation of its middle-class reactionary readership, and then runs pictorials of sexualised children for the quiet enjoyment of that same readership.

If I may say so Simon I find that a rather bigoted view.
To classify a huge number of people in this country of reading a publication that encourages "hate" and then to say those same people "quietly enjoy pictorials of sexulised children" I find myself offensive.
Are you saying that a large group of the population which you class as "middle class reactionary" actually enjoy the abuse of children?
And what have the "middle class" done so wrong to ignite your hate?
Probably paid too many taxes to support the "civil liberty" lifestyle enjoyed by so many??
Define for me please the "middle class" and I'll see if I am one and therefore fall into that section of the community you so despise.

[Andy Capp]

If I may say so Simon I find that a rather bigoted view.
To classify a huge number of people in this country of reading a publication that encourages "hate" and then to say those same people "quietly enjoy pictorials of sexulised children" I find myself offensive.
Are you saying that a large group of the population which you class as "middle class reactionary" actually enjoy the abuse of children?
And what have the "middle class" done so wrong to ignite your hate?
Probably paid too many taxes to support the "civil liberty" lifestyle enjoyed by so many??
Define for me please the "middle class" and I'll see if I am one and therefore fall into that section of the community you so despise.

The implication that all Daily Mail readers are perverts is wrong of course, so I would agree somewhat with you there, but I think Simon is not too far from the truth, except it is more than just the 'breakfast spitting-middle class right' that read it; I do too on occasion; except I can see through the cobblers it publishes. The latest thing about the NCC, PIE and Harman being a complete trumped up smear campaign that demonstrates how some editors simply haven't leaned anything from recent events regards trust in the media. Disgraceful.

The other thing Biker1, he didn't say he despised the middle classes as a whole; he only spoke of disdain for the middle-classes that enjoy reading the Daily Mail.

[Biker1]

The other thing Biker1, he didn't say he despised the middle classes as a whole; he only spoke of disdain for the middle-classes that enjoy reading the Daily Mail.

If so then why not just say "reactionary readership"?
Or are all DM readers "middle class"?
Perhaps I could recommend, as an alternative, the Daily Star for informative, non - biased, non-sexist content??

[Andy Capp]

If so then why not just say "reactionary readership"?
Or are all DM readers "middle class"?
Perhaps I could recommend, as an alternative, the Daily Star for informative, non - biased, non-sexist content??

You are right to expose a certain bigoted and generalised view from Simon, but he was also being satirical too. Not everything in the Daily Mail is crass, just as much as not everyone who reads it is a fascist.

[NWNREADER]

Supporting Civil Liberties is always going to make you smear-fodder for the Tory right and the Hate Mail - a detestable rag that both rails against child exploitation to excite the indignation of its middle-class reactionary readership, and then runs pictorials of sexualised children for the quiet enjoyment of that same readership.

The terminology and references Simon uses look very close to a lift from Mrs Dromey's 'response' to the Daily Wail expose

[On the edge]

The terminology and references Simon uses look very close to a lift from Mrs Dromey's 'response' to the Daily Wail expose

That's good, must be right then!

[Simon Kirby]

If I may say so Simon I find that a rather bigoted view.
To classify a huge number of people in this country of reading a publication that encourages "hate" and then to say those same people "quietly enjoy pictorials of sexulised children" I find myself offensive.
Are you saying that a large group of the population which you class as "middle class reactionary" actually enjoy the abuse of children?
And what have the "middle class" done so wrong to ignite your hate?
Probably paid too many taxes to support the "civil liberty" lifestyle enjoyed by so many??
Define for me please the "middle class" and I'll see if I am one and therefore fall into that section of the community you so despise.

It's a bigotry of sorts, yes. I've never claimed that I'm not intolerant of certain ideas and opinions, and I have my prejudices just like everyone.

But wasn't it the paper's own stated aim to give its readers something to hate every day?

You read the link, right? I didn't call anyone a pervert, but tell me that the Mail doesn't sexualise children. As it is I think the concern over the sexualisation of children is something of a moral panic amongst those same reactionary middle-class. But whatever, it's a great leap to conflate what I was talking about with child abuse.

I wasn't attacking the middle-class as such, I was attacking the Daily Heil which appeals typically to the more reactionary of the middle-class. It's the hypocrisy which gets my ire. I have more time for the Sun and the Star which don't disguise their misogyny as anything else.

[motormad]

I think everyone has prejudices. That's just human.

[Andy Capp]

I think everyone has prejudices. That's just human.

Spot on.

[Ruwan Uduwerage-...]

I think everyone has prejudices. That's just human.

I would certainly agree that we all possess prejudices, but the kind of prejudices that have been referred to within this thread are not natural but taught, hence they can be untaught.

Whether I am seen as 'Politically Correct' or not is not really an issue to me, but it just seems rather crass in the enlightened 21st Century to be demonstrating intolerance towards people on grounds that they have no control over.

Over thirty years are the first attempt at Gender equality women are still disproportionately underpaid compared with their male colleagues, under-represented in managerial positions, actually receive generally far more severe sentences in cases involving children, sexual abuse and other cases that women are deemed as 'just not doing that kind of thing,' etc.

If someone is a first time criminal or a recidivist then aligning their actions with their gender, sexuality, ethnicity, class, etc is meaningless for these are not the causes of crime.

As for Class as a problem, well how could I not agree with Marx on this matter for he stated:

the history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles

Marx posits that ever since human society emerged from its primitive and relatively undifferentiated state it has remained fundamentally divided between classes who clash in the pursuit of class interests.

In the Western Capitalist model Marx highlighted that the prime locus of antagonism between classes is between exploiters and the exploited, between buyers and sellers of labour power, and that dissension between the classes is not just favoured over and above their functional collaboration, but overtly and covertly encouraged.

Regarding all forms of discrimination Marx surmises that "the ideas of the ruling class are. . .the ruling ideas" and that "the State is the form in which the individuals of a ruling class assert their common interests," hence if one is not a member of the ruling class then the chances are that they will experience barriers to their progression.

Of course some of us believe that we have overcome or do not experience discrimination, but Marx described this belief as a "false consciousness," for unless one is of the ruling class one cannot truly escape their restrictive rules.

Having said all of this, although I agree that Class and all other forms of discrimination are inter-related I do not as a 'Champagne Socialist' and a liberal encourage the dismantlement of the current structure of society, but rather the empowering everyone to fulfil their potential by the removal of the real and perceived unnecessary barriers that many people face on a day to day basis.

With this in mind, I applaud Michael Gove's clear socialist statement that "My ambition for our education system is simple - when you visit a school in England standards are so high all round that you should not be able to tell whether it's in the state sector or a fee paying independent".

If the Conservatives in Newbury and West Berkshire, and throughout the remainder of the country started to follow Gove's inclusive desires, which surely expand beyond education and into all aspects of life then the rest of us involved in politics will be 'Up the creek without a paddle' so to speak, but what a pleasant and inclusive place this would be.

The reality is that I suspects that Gove was as usual speaking without thinking, so the socialist vision that he was proposing will not be realised., and the gulf between the 'them and us' will continue to increase.

Ruwan Uduwerage-Perera

Newbury Town Council - Councillor for Victoria Ward & Deputy Leader

[MontyPython]

I would certainly agree that we all possess prejudices, but the kind of prejudices that have been referred to within this thread are not natural but taught, hence they can be untaught.

Whether I am seen as 'Politically Correct' or not is not really an issue to me, but it just seems rather crass in the enlightened 21st Century to be demonstrating intolerance towards people on grounds that they have no control over.

I think much of the problem is how we read statements, and how / if this influences our views.

NM made a comment regarding Nigerians and the email scams. A lot of evidence points to the fact the a large percentage of the scams originate from there. What he did not say (and I am sure doesn't believe) is all Nigerians are criminals. That would be wrong.

The problem with political correctness is in trying to ensure that we don't attach a label to a certain group, we are almost barred from highlighting that some areas of society are creating major issues for the rest of society and hence not enough action takes place.

We have had similar discussions in various areas including politicians! What is needed is others within the various groups to accept that there is a problem, condemn it, and do all within their powers to highlight the perpetrators and eradicate the problem.

[On the edge]

I enjoyed the political education correspondence course. Marx does get unjustifiably rubbished, particularly when he is right. Yes, the ideas of the ruling class are the ruling ideas. Describing exactly what we see round here; unless you have the stamp you have no chance.

Champaign socialists? As Ken Livingstone is wont to point out, the working class are not embarrassed by money...just the lack of it!