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> CoronaVirus, Nature will find a way
TallDarkAndHands...
post Apr 12 2020, 06:32 PM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Feb 1 2020, 09:32 PM) *
Us thick brexiteers dont do facts fella. Surely you know that?
Though I did predict Trump, Boris and Brexit.
Next up.... a global pandemic. Maybe not Corona but something else like bird flu... gonna happen. It's a cert. It's in certain peoples "interests"...

Nostradamus me. Watch out for that Asteroid coming soon..(don't Google asteroid)..😂
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SirWilliam
post Apr 13 2020, 02:04 PM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Apr 12 2020, 07:32 PM) *
Nostradamus me. Watch out for that Asteroid coming soon..(don't Google asteroid)..😂


Haven't had either time or inclination to do the sums but I believe one is more likely to be hit by a meteorite than win the national lottery as it is considerably more so to have all life on earth destroyed by a virus than a nuclear holocaust, but in terms of public expenditure viral research is way down the list. It ain't sexy, it ain't cheap, but it sure as h**l essential.


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SirWilliam
post Apr 15 2020, 05:42 PM
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It is estimated that 9 million workers are presently being furloughed so what does HMG sanction?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52293061

Even the "Monty Python" script writers may have not thought this one up. angry.gif angry.gif angry.gif


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TallDarkAndHands...
post Apr 15 2020, 06:11 PM
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QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Apr 15 2020, 06:42 PM) *
It is estimated that 9 million workers are presently being furloughed so what does HMG sanction?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52293061

Even the "Monty Python" script writers may have not thought this one up. angry.gif angry.gif angry.gif


Indeed. None violent criminals at her majesties pleasure should be doing this. I'm sure they'd rather be picking fruit in the sun, rather than being locked up in a covid infected **** hole. It actually sounds better than what I am doing!!!
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newres
post Apr 17 2020, 06:23 AM
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QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Apr 15 2020, 06:42 PM) *
It is estimated that 9 million workers are presently being furloughed so what does HMG sanction?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52293061

Even the "Monty Python" script writers may have not thought this one up. angry.gif angry.gif angry.gif

Someone in the industry was interviewed on LBC yesterday and said they had 30,000 UK citizens register for this work but we need 80,000. So in an economic meltdown we can't get half the workforce we need. Houston, we've got a problem. In fairness to our people, geography will be a factor. The unemployed have to be in the right places.
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SirWilliam
post Apr 17 2020, 10:38 AM
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QUOTE (newres @ Apr 17 2020, 07:23 AM) *
Someone in the industry was interviewed on LBC yesterday and said they had 30,000 UK citizens register for this work but we need 80,000. So in an economic meltdown we can't get half the workforce we need. Houston, we've got a problem. In fairness to our people, geography will be a factor. The unemployed have to be in the right places.


I agree on both counts but it would be nice to know if a concerted effort is being implemented by those in charge to address the problem. Any form of harvest is based round the 3 fundamentals; 1. The crop is ready, 2, the weather conducive and the labour available. Now we have already witnessed the "speed" of HMG's response to most elements of this crisis and the last thing we need is a food shortage this winter owing to their ineptitude of management.

On a not dissimilar theme, I see certain factions are calling for the wearing of face masks to be made compulsory on public journeys yet hospitals and nursing homes etc are having problems sourcing enough for those who need it the most. Yet another example of how lack of correct information can "colour" the public's perception of matters. This virus, (and it's millions of cousins), is so small that the wearing of a face mask is akin to jumping out of a plane over the Pacific and hoping you land on an island. Even their official directive advocates using bleach on surfaces to "kill" the virus, yet it is not living until it enters the host cell so cleaning areas is more important than excessive use of domestos which will only pollute the waterways and add to our woes.

God I'm starting to sound like a grumpy old fart. rolleyes.gif


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je suis Charlie
post Apr 17 2020, 10:55 AM
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QUOTE (newres @ Apr 17 2020, 07:23 AM) *
Someone in the industry was interviewed on LBC yesterday and said they had 30,000 UK citizens register for this work but we need 80,000. So in an economic meltdown we can't get half the workforce we need. Houston, we've got a problem. In fairness to our people, geography will be a factor. The unemployed have to be in the right places.

Except of course if they are unemployed they will be on benefits so can't work. I suppose they could come off benefits and stand around doing backbreaking work for the same (or less) money than they were getting laying on a sofa watching judge Judy. But hey! Tough choice.
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SirWilliam
post Apr 17 2020, 11:44 AM
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QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Apr 17 2020, 11:55 AM) *
Except of course if they are unemployed they will be on benefits so can't work. I suppose they could come off benefits and stand around doing backbreaking work for the same (or less) money than they were getting laying on a sofa watching judge Judy. But hey! Tough choice.


I see they are paying between 11 and £15 /hour which is not bad for 40 hours work. No idea how that compares with the dole money but I would say it was a better option. The problem is, as newres pointed out, the proximity of work to worker. This is where those with the numbers come in.


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SirWilliam
post Apr 18 2020, 09:03 AM
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Simple question to those who know as opposed to those who think they know;

It would appear that we are running very low on PPE equipment, so with half the country sat at home watching tv, how difficult is it to utilise workshops/factories across the country to manufacture the gowns/masks etc required?

Local WI groups are sewing scrubs and some school kids are knocking out face masks on their Dad's 3D printer but, assuming one can obtain the raw material, wholesale production of disposable gowns and gloves should be a doddle with a bit of guidance from the the top.

I may be over simplifying the solution but surely it is better to be seen trying to do something, even if it fails, than to wait for some mythical cavalry to come to our rescue?


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Turin Machine
post Apr 18 2020, 09:50 AM
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A lot of this homemade stuff is so dangerous it should be illegal on the basis it can create a false sense of security, I watched an interesting video by a virologist and two nurses regarding masks and saying that pretty much most of them are useless. The virus is between 20 and 100nM across, 100’s of times smaller than bacteria. Basically, unless you have a properly fitted N95 mask which you cannot detect a strong odour through, face shields, dust masks, scarves, bandanas or whatever other bollocks are useless. The analogy was would you go into a room full of poison gas wearing these things? If not, what you’re wearing on your face is ineffective. Also, N95 masks are only good for about 3 hours. In extreme circumstances they can be treated with isopropyl alcohol for a few hours, autoclaved or treated with a UVC germicidal lamp. All of these techniques degrade the mask though and can only be used a finite number of times.
It's not as simple as it seems, also it's all pretty pointless as all PPE becomes ineffective if not used correctly and if you put on or take your mask off like Shinzo Abe does:

Image

... they may be almost useless even if they do stop you directly huffing it in your mouth and nose, because you're putting the stuff you're trying to keep off your face right onto your fingers, which you then use to rub your eyes, pick your nose, or yoink a bit of pork from between your teeth.

For the correct procedure, imagine that every piece of PPE has diarrhoea smeared all over the external (protective) surfaces.


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Turin Machine
post Apr 18 2020, 09:52 AM
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Ahh, should have been a file pic of said Shinzo putting on his mask, never mind, you get the picture. Except of course you didn't. Sigh.


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SirWilliam
post Apr 18 2020, 12:06 PM
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QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Apr 18 2020, 10:52 AM) *
Ahh, should have been a file pic of said Shinzo putting on his mask, never mind, you get the picture. Except of course you didn't. Sigh.


I can see your very relevant point regarding face protection but my understanding is that ALL PPE is in short supply which includes the disposable gloves/aprons etc. Now I may be wrong in that assumption but it would be nice to know and if that is the case then manufacturing anything to a given standard is reasonably straight forward. We can no longer expect the world to furnish us with our requirements.


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TallDarkAndHands...
post Apr 19 2020, 02:44 PM
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QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Apr 18 2020, 01:06 PM) *
I can see your very relevant point regarding face protection but my understanding is that ALL PPE is in short supply which includes the disposable gloves/aprons etc. Now I may be wrong in that assumption but it would be nice to know and if that is the case then manufacturing anything to a given standard is reasonably straight forward. We can no longer expect the world to furnish us with our requirements.

Quite agree Sir Will. One thing that this has taught us is that globalisation is a disaster. We need to rebuild our manufacturing base and prop it up if necessary for the essentials. Loss making companies that are necessary in such a pandemic (pharmaceutical, PPE etc) should be underwritten by the public purse. It will cost a lot less than this sh1t fest. We also need to closely look at which countries we trade with and allow people in from.
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newres
post Apr 19 2020, 04:24 PM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Apr 19 2020, 03:44 PM) *
Quite agree Sir Will. One thing that this has taught us is that globalisation is a disaster. We need to rebuild our manufacturing base and prop it up if necessary for the essentials. Loss making companies that are necessary in such a pandemic (pharmaceutical, PPE etc) should be underwritten by the public purse. It will cost a lot less than this sh1t fest. We also need to closely look at which countries we trade with and allow people in from.

We’d surely only rule out trade with a handful of countries? China, Russia, Saudi Arabia spring to mind.

On the globalization thing. Would you be willing to buy a British Leyland type vehicle? Personally I like the choice. I’d definitely like to see us consume more British produce, but I wouldn’t want to be confined to seasonal fruit and veg.

But we definitely need to get back to having capacity “just in case”. And I’m happy to pay more tax for that. But I’m not sure most Tory voters would be.
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TallDarkAndHands...
post Apr 19 2020, 04:38 PM
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QUOTE (newres @ Apr 19 2020, 05:24 PM) *
We’d surely only rule out trade with a handful of countries? China, Russia, Saudi Arabia spring to mind.

On the globalization thing. Would you be willing to buy a British Leyland type vehicle? Personally I like the choice. I’d definitely like to see us consume more British produce, but I wouldn’t want to be confined to seasonal fruit and veg.

But we definitely need to get back to having capacity “just in case”. And I’m happy to pay more tax for that. But I’m not sure most Tory voters would be.


In answer to your questions

1. Any country which contravened the norms accepted as basic animal husbandry..so China, South Korea etc
2. Any country that has an abhorrent record on human rights so Iran, Russia, Saudi Arabia etc
3.This means no flights (apart from diplomatic) and no entry to the UK for passport holders of these nationalities.
4. Any country that has an outbreak of any unknown virus.
5. I would be happy to pay more tax, but ONLY to prop up companies (where needed) for manufacturing that benefits the health of the population (so cars no but pharmaceutical and PPE equipment etc yes).

This is a watershed moment. The world will never be the same again.
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newres
post Apr 19 2020, 04:43 PM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Apr 19 2020, 05:38 PM) *
In answer to your questions

1. Any country which contravened the norms accepted as basic animal husbandry..so China, South Korea etc
2. Any country that has an abhorrent record on human rights so Iran, Russia, Saudi Arabia etc
3.This means no flights (apart from diplomatic) and no entry to the UK for passport holders of these nationalities.
4. Any country that has an outbreak of any unknown virus.
5. I would be happy to pay more tax, but ONLY to prop up companies (where needed) for manufacturing that benefits the health of the population (so cars no but pharmaceutical and PPE equipment etc yes).

This is a watershed moment. The world will never be the same again.

But don’t you work for Microsoft? Can you imagine Trump stopping trade with the countries you mentioned?
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TallDarkAndHands...
post Apr 19 2020, 04:58 PM
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QUOTE (newres @ Apr 19 2020, 05:43 PM) *
But don’t you work for Microsoft? Can you imagine Trump stopping trade with the countries you mentioned?

I'm talking about the UK. We can't dictate policy to other countries. Hopefully air traffic should drop significantly now as well as people have been forced into Teams, Zoom etc and will now realise 80% of journeys are bot necessary. Apart from the awful consequences of this virus, it should also lead to a reevaluation of what we do and where we need to go.
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newres
post Apr 19 2020, 05:03 PM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Apr 19 2020, 05:58 PM) *
I'm talking about the UK. We can't dictate policy to other countries. Hopefully air traffic should drop significantly now as well as people have been forced into Teams, Zoom etc and will now realise 80% of journeys are bot necessary. Apart from the awful consequences of this virus, it should also lead to a reevaluation of what we do and where we need to go.

I wouldn’t argue with much of that. One of the outcomes though ifs likely increased trade with our nearest neighbors. Now if we just had a free trade agreement and frictionless trade. laugh.gif laugh.gif
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TallDarkAndHands...
post Apr 19 2020, 05:07 PM
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QUOTE (newres @ Apr 19 2020, 06:03 PM) *
I wouldn’t argue with much of that. One of the outcomes though ifs likely increased trade with our nearest neighbors. Now if we just had a free trade agreement and frictionless trade. laugh.gif laugh.gif

I knew that was coming... no reason not to trade with the EU though. Hopefully the imminent recession will focus the minds to agree a quick trade deal that is fiscally neutral and benefits both the UK and the EU.
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SirWilliam
post Apr 19 2020, 07:36 PM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Apr 19 2020, 06:07 PM) *
I knew that was coming... no reason not to trade with the EU though. Hopefully the imminent recession will focus the minds to agree a quick trade deal that is fiscally neutral and benefits both the UK and the EU.


This present little global strife has shown the stark reality of placing political ideology above the mass populace. If the EU had been run as straight forward free trade conglomerate then we would have handled this outbreak as a single unit with the best scientific advice leading it. But no, the leaders still wanted to lead.and look at the result.
Only yesterday tv footage from China still showed a "wet" market in the background with half dead animals trying to escape their torment. Do we deserve to survive as a species? If I had god's job for a day the answer would be very short.


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