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> Lib Dems in the Letters Page
Simon Kirby
post Apr 13 2013, 06:27 PM
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A couple of letters from Lib Dems in the letters page this week - is there an election coming?

One, from someone I've never heard of, was essentially just slagging off Garvie for being at home rather then being out canvassing for the election.

Is this the most pressing local issue for the Lib Dems, the one burning injustice above all others that they have to expose in the letters page? I'm guessing their intention was to rubbish RG and improve their own prospects in the forthcoming election, but is this the kind of thing that actually influences people? I'm pretty disillusioned with local politics so it might just be me that finds this inane, but I'd so much sooner see the issues discussed rather than the personalities.


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NWNREADER
post Apr 13 2013, 06:30 PM
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QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Apr 13 2013, 06:27 PM) *
A couple of letters from Lib Dems in the letters page this week - is there an election coming?

One, from someone I've never heard of, was essentially just slagging off Garvie for being at home rather then being out canvassing for the election.

Is this the most pressing local issue for the Lib Dems, the one burning injustice above all others that they have to expose in the letters page? I'm guessing their intention was to rubbish RG and improve their own prospects in the forthcoming election, but is this the kind of thing that actually influences people? I'm pretty disillusioned with local politics so it might just be me that finds this inane, but I'd so much sooner see the issues discussed rather than the personalities.


I don't think there is any WBC election. The only one I'm sure about is the NTC By-election......
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Cognosco
post Apr 13 2013, 06:43 PM
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QUOTE (NWNREADER @ Apr 13 2013, 07:30 PM) *
I don't think there is any WBC election. The only one I'm sure about is the NTC By-election......


I would think there would be more excitement if there was going to be a vote to abolish it? rolleyes.gif


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Simon Kirby
post Apr 13 2013, 08:59 PM
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QUOTE (Cognosco @ Apr 13 2013, 07:43 PM) *
I would think there would be more excitement if there was going to be a vote to abolish it? rolleyes.gif

The Town Council is crippled with failure. If they could be honest about their failures there would be some hope of rehabilitating the institution, but that's not going to happen. A small and efficient parish council which was engaged with ordinary townspeople would be a great thing for Newbury, managing the parks, cemeteries, market, and allotments with a part-time clerk and a bunch of enthusiastic volunteers, and empowering the community to organise its own social and cultural celebrations like Big Lunch and Carnival, with a Carnival King and Queen in place of the mayor. A parish council that served us, and not one that served party-political and personal agendas. I would like to see the town given the opportunity to vote for that.


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Richard Garvie
post Apr 13 2013, 10:30 PM
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QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Apr 13 2013, 07:27 PM) *
A couple of letters from Lib Dems in the letters page this week - is there an election coming?

One, from someone I've never heard of, was essentially just slagging off Garvie for being at home rather then being out canvassing for the election.

Is this the most pressing local issue for the Lib Dems, the one burning injustice above all others that they have to expose in the letters page? I'm guessing their intention was to rubbish RG and improve their own prospects in the forthcoming election, but is this the kind of thing that actually influences people? I'm pretty disillusioned with local politics so it might just be me that finds this inane, but I'd so much sooner see the issues discussed rather than the personalities.


I think the evidence speaks for itself. The Lib Dems are spineless, gutless and hopeless, with no other option but to attack me and Labour in one last desperate attempt to cling to power at the glorified residents association we refer to as NTC.

In 2015, there will be a choice of two genuine candidates to pick from in Newbury. Tory if you want Cameron, Labour if you want Miliband. The Lib Dems, Clegg and the likes of Captain Hook are finished in these parts once and for all.
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blackdog
post Apr 14 2013, 09:45 AM
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QUOTE (Richard Garvie @ Apr 13 2013, 11:30 PM) *
I think the evidence speaks for itself. The Lib Dems are spineless, gutless and hopeless, with no other option but to attack me and Labour in one last desperate attempt to cling to power at the glorified residents association we refer to as NTC.

Haven't seen this weeks paper yet so can't comment on the letters. But is seemed to me that it was you indulging in a pretty desperate personal attack on a leading Lib Dem on this forum a few days ago (in the mistaken belief that I was he).

And Labour also seem pretty keen to grab a little of the power at the glorified resident's association.

QUOTE (Richard Garvie @ Apr 13 2013, 11:30 PM) *
In 2015, there will be a choice of two genuine candidates to pick from in Newbury. Tory if you want Cameron, Labour if you want Miliband. The Lib Dems, Clegg and the likes of Captain Hook are finished in these parts once and for all.

Dream on. Astoundingly the Lib Dems actually have a chance of winning Newbury at the next election - thanks to UKIP's erosion of the traditional Tory vote. Labour will come in fourth, just like at Eastleigh. However, I suspect that Benyon will still be our MP in 2016.

On a positive note for Labour though - I see Labour led Reading Borough Council have decided to return to the committee system of governance.
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Ruwan Uduwerage-...
post Apr 14 2013, 02:54 PM
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QUOTE (Richard Garvie @ Apr 13 2013, 11:30 PM) *
I think the evidence speaks for itself. The Lib Dems are spineless, gutless and hopeless,...


Richard, so this would be ALL Liberal Democrats then? This appears awfully like negative campaigning to me.
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NWNREADER
post Apr 14 2013, 02:58 PM
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QUOTE (Richard Garvie @ Apr 13 2013, 11:30 PM) *
I think the evidence speaks for itself. The Lib Dems are spineless, gutless and hopeless, with no other option but to attack me and Labour in one last desperate attempt to cling to power at the glorified residents association we refer to as NTC.


What is the current 'Party' balance in NTC?
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desres123
post Apr 14 2013, 08:16 PM
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QUOTE (Richard Garvie @ Apr 13 2013, 11:30 PM) *
I think the evidence speaks for itself. The Lib Dems are spineless, gutless and hopeless, with no other option but to attack me and Labour in one last desperate attempt to cling to power at the glorified residents association we refer to as NTC.

In 2015, there will be a choice of two genuine candidates to pick from in Newbury. Tory if you want Cameron, Labour if you want Miliband. The Lib Dems, Clegg and the likes of Captain Hook are finished in these parts once and for all.



Trouble is though labour dont stand a chance of winning the Newbury seat and also until Miliband actually comes up with some concrete policies on how he and balls will reduce the defecit, reduce unemployment, curb Britains benefit culture, reduce immigration and plus how he will (not really too hard) make a better effort of it than Brown then labour dont stand a chance
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blackdog
post Apr 14 2013, 09:06 PM
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QUOTE (NWNREADER @ Apr 14 2013, 03:58 PM) *
What is the current 'Party' balance in NTC?

10 Lib Dem, 11 Tory, 2 Vacant
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NWNREADER
post Apr 14 2013, 09:17 PM
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QUOTE (blackdog @ Apr 14 2013, 10:06 PM) *
10 Lib Dem, 11 Tory, 2 Vacant


So "one last desperate attempt to cling to power at the glorified residents association we refer to as NTC" is not the precision we might hope for from our future leaders?
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Richard Garvie
post Apr 14 2013, 09:40 PM
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Ruwan, you know what I meant. Plus I'm not campaigning.

As for "desperate attempt to cling to power", look at the Lib Dem campaign against me personally, lying in letters and in the paper!! That is a negative campaign, and I'm not even standing!!
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Simon Kirby
post Apr 14 2013, 09:41 PM
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QUOTE (Richard Garvie @ Apr 13 2013, 11:30 PM) *
I think the evidence speaks for itself. The Lib Dems are spineless, gutless and hopeless, with no other option but to attack me and Labour in one last desperate attempt to cling to power at the glorified residents association we refer to as NTC.

In 2015, there will be a choice of two genuine candidates to pick from in Newbury. Tory if you want Cameron, Labour if you want Miliband. The Lib Dems, Clegg and the likes of Captain Hook are finished in these parts once and for all.

I agree with you Richard that the Lib Dems are all those things and more - but what is Labour going to do?

If your candidates are elected will they demand that I'm given my allotment back and protected from future victimisation? Will they discuss allotment self-management?

Will they vote to drop the mayor, or will they be seduced by the dressing up clothes and cowed into conformity by the council establishment?

Will they vote to move the office to New Greenham Park and save us the expense of the Gothic Mansion, or will their vanity get the better of them and they'll choose to keep the trappings of baronial authority?

Will they vote to thin out the army of administrator down to a part-time clerk and get the council back in touch with the townspeople, or will they revert to socialist type and to hull with efficiency?

Will they demand the council come clean on the cracks debacle, or will they lose their bottle and be absorbed by the council establishment.

Will they be honest about the miserable state of the charter market, and what will they do about it? Will they get it moved into Northbrook Street where it will get the passing trade? Will they demand an investigation into the £60k "cleansing contract", how it got to be awarded, and what exactly it was paying for?

Will they commit to putting a fence around the kiddies play area in Victoria Park - it's what the park-users want, so why not just do it? If the council can't find the money, you only need to ask, I'll free-up £50k no problem.

I've never heard a peep from either of your candidates on local issues. I'd like to think they were different to the sell-out lib dems and tories, but I haven't seen the evidence of that yet.


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Simon Kirby
post Apr 14 2013, 09:57 PM
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QUOTE (Ruwan Uduwerage-Perera @ Apr 14 2013, 03:54 PM) *
Richard, so this would be ALL Liberal Democrats then? This appears awfully like negative campaigning to me.

The town council has some major problems, but rather than admit their mistakes and seek to resolve the situation the council just lies, hides, and bullies. You've criticised two tory councillors and the town clerk for their anti-gypsy policy for which the tories apologised (I never saw an apology from the clerk).

Fine. But will you criticise the town council for anything else, even if it embarrasses your party or harms your standing?

The lib-dem-lead town council evicted me from my allotment because I wouldn't sign the secret no-criticism agreement - will you criticise that? I would gladly have resolved that dispute through negotiation and mediation - as you very well know - but I could not sign away my right to the free expression of my political views, and it was tyrannical of the lib-dem-lead council to ransom my allotment for my silence. The council needs to right this injustice.


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dannyboy
post Apr 15 2013, 12:48 PM
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QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Apr 14 2013, 10:41 PM) *
I agree with you Richard that the Lib Dems are all those things and more - but what is Labour going to do?

If your candidates are elected will they demand that I'm given my allotment back and protected from future victimisation? Will they discuss allotment self-management?

Will they vote to drop the mayor, or will they be seduced by the dressing up clothes and cowed into conformity by the council establishment?

Will they vote to move the office to New Greenham Park and save us the expense of the Gothic Mansion, or will their vanity get the better of them and they'll choose to keep the trappings of baronial authority?

Will they vote to thin out the army of administrator down to a part-time clerk and get the council back in touch with the townspeople, or will they revert to socialist type and to hull with efficiency?

Will they demand the council come clean on the cracks debacle, or will they lose their bottle and be absorbed by the council establishment.

Will they be honest about the miserable state of the charter market, and what will they do about it? Will they get it moved into Northbrook Street where it will get the passing trade? Will they demand an investigation into the £60k "cleansing contract", how it got to be awarded, and what exactly it was paying for?

Will they commit to putting a fence around the kiddies play area in Victoria Park - it's what the park-users want, so why not just do it? If the council can't find the money, you only need to ask, I'll free-up £50k no problem.

I've never heard a peep from either of your candidates on local issues. I'd like to think they were different to the sell-out lib dems and tories, but I haven't seen the evidence of that yet.

Why don't you just stand for election yourself?
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Ruwan Uduwerage-...
post Apr 15 2013, 02:43 PM
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QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Apr 14 2013, 10:57 PM) *
Fine. But will you criticise the town council for anything else, even if it embarrasses your party or harms your standing?


Simon, It is a matter of record that I have challenged Councillors in the past and I am aware of your situation as well, as we have spoken at length, but I have no intention of discussing your specific grievance with the Council, or the matter of my concerns with Councillors in the past, as this is not an appropriate forum, but you know yourself that I have and do speak against what some may see as the "Party Line" when necessary.

Anyone holding an elected position has a duty to represent their electorate before anything else, unless it is one of breaching a principle that cannot be broken. As the Liberal Democrat Party has terribly democrat internal processes for the development of policies, there is always an element of friction between the membership who decide the policies, and some Parliamentarians.

As a result of this Liberal Democrats are generally not bound by the 'Party Whip' as much as some other political groups either at a national or local level, and I for one do not recognise any 'Whip', but can be won over at times with evidence and a well constructed argument.

It is a shame that the closing date has passed for putting yourself forward for election, but I also feel that you should consider standing for election in the future.
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Simon Kirby
post Apr 15 2013, 03:13 PM
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QUOTE (dannyboy @ Apr 15 2013, 01:48 PM) *
Why don't you just stand for election yourself?

Would you vote for me?

I might stand in Falkland at the next opportunity, but I don't particularly want to be a parish councillor. I have opinions on parish matters, but I don't need to be a councillor to air them. My particular interest is the allotment movement and above all I want my allotment back, and I want to be free to cultivate it without fear of harassment and victimisation for holding and expressing my political beliefs. I'd also very much like to see the Newbury allotment service self-managed and I'd like to be fully involved in that. I'm also less than convinced that many Wash Commoners would vote for me and what I stand for.


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dannyboy
post Apr 15 2013, 03:18 PM
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QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Apr 15 2013, 04:13 PM) *
Would you vote for me?

I might stand in Falkland at the next opportunity, but I don't particularly want to be a parish councillor. I have opinions on parish matters, but I don't need to be a councillor to air them. My particular interest is the allotment movement and above all I want my allotment back, and I want to be free to cultivate it without fear of harassment and victimisation for holding and expressing my political beliefs. I'd also very much like to see the Newbury allotment service self-managed and I'd like to be fully involved in that. I'm also less then convinced that many Wash Commoners would vote for me and what I stand for.

no - but then I have never voted.

But I do think that folk should be prepared to stand by their convictions. Be critical by all means, but also be prepared to do something about it.
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Simon Kirby
post Apr 15 2013, 03:25 PM
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QUOTE (dannyboy @ Apr 15 2013, 04:18 PM) *
no - but then I have never voted.

But I do think that folk should be prepared to stand by their convictions. Be critical by all means, but also be prepared to do something about it.

I've done as much as I could to stand up for my convictions. I'm sorry what I've done wouldn't persuade you to vote for me (in principle), but I don't think many Wash Commoners share my convictions either so you're in company.


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Simon Kirby
post Apr 15 2013, 03:38 PM
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QUOTE (dannyboy @ Apr 15 2013, 04:18 PM) *
But I do think that folk should be prepared to stand by their convictions. Be critical by all means, but also be prepared to do something about it.

It's one for another thread I suspect, but I have to ask about the apparent inconsistency in your views: you've previously derided my ambition to see the allotment service self-managed and for me to be actively involved in that, but now you appear to sneer at me for not wanting to be a town councillor.

As an allotmenteer on a self-managed site I'd get involved in the site management and maintenance with other volunteers. Management decisions would be made democratically by the allotmenteers themselves and we'd run the site for our own benefit without any financial support from the precept.

As a town councillor I'd sit with other councillors who know feck-all about allotmenteering on a committee that had zero input from the allotmenteers themselves, and the site management and maintenance would be done at the public expense by council officers and contractors because the allotmenteers are prohibited from doing the maintenance themselves.

So how is it that being a councillor is a worthy thing, but self-managing is so wrong?


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