Police, Above the bloody law!! nobs. Options

[motormad]

You could bounce naked across the forecourt on a spacehopper while singing the national anthem if you want, but what that or being drunk or pulling donuts has got to do with ignoring a random sign telling you to turn left has got to with anything beats me....


But in answer, if you found someone pi$$ed in your garden or sat in their car on your driveway revving the car to death and causing a fuss you could call the police. Something to do with trespass laws I believe? And I'm sure the garage owners could do the same if you used the forecourt as a rally track....

as I do Urbex I am aware of the law of trespass.
It is a civil matter unless loss of earnings/property is proven.
You can trespass, you will be asked to leave and you must do so in the most direct, safe route. You cannot take anything, break anything, eg if you break a window on an abandoned building to get in you could be criminally charged. Other than that they would need to prove you caused a loss of earnings. Which on an abandoned hospital site is not possible to prove.

[dannyboy]

You makes oi larf!

He does indeed.

[Ruwan Uduwerage-...]

I was driving home from a friends unit tonight at approximately 10:45pm and I saw a Police Mitsubishi Pick up (think it was an L200 - the registration plate was 0U10 BGW or BWL or something like that) turn RIGHT out of BP on London Road, which we all know is a NO RIGHT TURN.

Yet I get told off for parking in a car park peacefully with my friends. I have no respect for police officers when they have no respect for the laws they are supposed to uphold!!

Motormad,

I can confirm what you saw, as I pulled into the garage en route home from a council meeting and witnessed this transgression.

Although the sign may not be legally enforceable it was out there for a very good reason and it is not only foolish for the officer to ignore the sign, but as we can now see from the response it gave a very negative impression of 'them and us'.

My old sergeant told me when I first joined the service that no matter what the time always adhere to the highway code for you can bet that the day that you do not someone will be looking out of a bedroom window, unless you are obviously responding to an emergency.

From the way that the police car drove off west along the A4, I image that the officers had merely collected their chocolate rations.

Do not get me onto uniformed officers apparent belligerent refusal to wear their caps when out of the vehicle..............

Overall, not a good recommendation for Thames Valley Police.

Ruwan Uduwerage-Perera
Newbury Town Council - Councillor for Victoria Ward & Deputy Leader

[dannyboy]

What about the taxis that every day turn R out of Cheap Street so as to avoid going up Market Street & then along Bartholomew St to the market place.......

[NWNREADER]

Motormad,

I can confirm what you saw, as I pulled into the garage en route home from a council meeting and witnessed this transgression.

Although the sign may not be legally enforceable it was out there for a very good reason and it is not only foolish for the officer to ignore the sign, but as we can now see from the response it gave a very negative impression of 'them and us'.

My old sergeant told me when I first joined the service that no matter what the time always adhere to the highway code for you can bet that the day that you do not someone will be looking out of a bedroom window, unless you are obviously responding to an emergency.

From the way that the police car drove off west along the A4, I image that the officers had merely collected their chocolate rations.

Do not get me onto uniformed officers apparent belligerent refusal to wear their caps when out of the vehicle..............

Overall, not a good recommendation for Thames Valley Police.

Ruwan Uduwerage-Perera
Newbury Town Council - Councillor for Victoria Ward & Deputy Leader

Such comments re chocolate rations are not very 'Councillorly'. Just a chance an officer was responding to something? Or are you of the fraternity that believes Emergency Services vehicles can only be responding to a call or attending to anything if their A/V systems are all on full blast?
And you saw it was a TVP vehicle?
If you are aggrieved then you should submit a complaint. You may even get a more positive response than those that question the actions of Councillors and Councils......


Interesting comment re enforcement of the Cheap Street/Market Street restriction. I wonder if a motorist pulled up for such a transgression would think it a good use of police time?

[Ruwan Uduwerage-...]

Such comments re chocolate rations are not very 'Councillorly'. Just a chance an officer was responding to something? Or are you of the fraternity that believes Emergency Services vehicles can only be responding to a call or attending to anything if their A/V systems are all on full blast?
And you saw it was a TVP vehicle?
If you are aggrieved then you should submit a complaint. You may even get a more positive response than those that question the actions of Councillors and Councils......


Interesting comment re enforcement of the Cheap Street/Market Street restriction. I wonder if a motorist pulled up for such a transgression would think it a good use of police time?

NWNREADER

I have been a member of this particular fraternity so I have a little insight.

As for being aggrieved, I am not, merely corroborating Motormad's observations and adding a personal perspective.

Whether one is a police officer or for that matter a councillor perceptions of ones actions can make or break ones credibility.

Ruwan Uduwerage-Perera
Newbury Town Council - Councillor for Victoria Ward & Deputy Leader

[NWNREADER]

NWNREADER

I have been a member of this particular fraternity so I have a little insight.

As for being aggrieved, I am not, merely corroborating Motormad's observations and adding a personal perspective.

Whether one is a police officer or for that matter a councillor perceptions of ones actions can make or break ones credibility.

Ruwan Uduwerage-Perera
Newbury Town Council - Councillor for Victoria Ward & Deputy Leader

As can jumping to conclusions/making public statements that may prove 'regrettable'?

I never knew you were a member of Thames Valley Police.

[Exhausted]

So we can get as drunk as we like and do handbrake turns on the forecourt?

Not really, the forecourt allows public access so you are in fact liable to arrest if you provide, on the forecourt, a breath sample which is over the limit. Your vehicle is also required to comply with the law with tax, mot and insurance.
Doing donuts is another matter but I'm sure that there will be something that will render it an offence.

[HJD]

What about the taxis that every day turn R out of Cheap Street so as to avoid going up Market Street & then along Bartholomew St to the market place.......

I wonder if they belong to the same company as the one that pulled out of a junction right in front of me when I was on my motorbike a while ago, then sped off completely ignoring a 30mph limit area !!

[Andy Capp]

What about the taxis that every day turn R out of Cheap Street so as to avoid going up Market Street & then along Bartholomew St to the market place.......

I'm not a taxi driver, but I do the same!

[spartacus]

Interesting comment re enforcement of the Cheap Street/Market Street restriction. I wonder if a motorist pulled up for such a transgression would think it a good use of police time?

Why that turn restriction on Cheap Street is still there beats me. Cyclists (slower moving and more vulnerable) can turn right but vehicles can’t? Where's the sense in that?

Visibility in either direction must be well over 50m and traffic volume is generally low, along with traffic speeds. What is the risk and why is it considered necessary to prevent vehicles turning right?

The turning ban was introduced in the days when ALL of Newbury traffic moved along Cheap Street and Market Street. In the 1960’s/70’s (even 80’s perhaps) it may very well have been a pain to get out from that junction, but since the A34 (now the A339) was introduced through the town it took most of that through traffic away. It seems the Council have never bothered to remove the ban despite the reason for it’s introduction no longer being a problem.

..and yeah, I turn right out of there too. Mostly it's in the evening after visiting the cinema or parking in Cheap St and there's hardly another car to be seen - so why is it illegal?

[motormad]

Not really, the forecourt allows public access so you are in fact liable to arrest if you provide, on the forecourt, a breath sample which is over the limit. Your vehicle is also required to comply with the law with tax, mot and insurance.
Doing donuts is another matter but I'm sure that there will be something that will render it an offence.

So what you're saying is that, basically, the same laws of the "road" apply to "private" land that has public access... eg a petrol station forecourt.
I am not so sure that BP is classed as private land either..... like a footpath to someone's house... implied right of access..

[Biker1]

The turning ban was introduced in the days when ALL of Newbury traffic moved along Cheap Street and Market Street. In the 1960’s/70’s (even 80’s perhaps) it may very well have been a pain to get out from that junction, but since the A34 (now the A339) was introduced through the town it took most of that through traffic away. It seems the Council have never bothered to remove the ban despite the reason for it’s introduction no longer being a problem.

It was introduced a lot later than that I am sure.

..and yeah, I turn right out of there too. Mostly it's in the evening after visiting the cinema or parking in Cheap St and there's hardly another car to be seen - so why is it illegal?

So we can choose which road regulations to obey or not to obey depending on whether we think they are relevant or not then?

[Andy Capp]

So we can choose which road regulations to obey or not to obey depending on whether we think they are relevant or not then?

Yes we do; the same's for road speed.

[Claude]

So we can choose which road regulations to obey or not to obey depending on whether we think they are relevant or not then?

Yes we do; the same's for road speed.

And it would seem the policeman chose to do the same which resulted in this thread being created.

MM- where do you stand on the relevancy point? Do you ever speed / park on double-yellows for 30 seconds / turn right at the Cheap Street junction / change lanes without indicating or carry out any other manoeuvre that goes against the spirit of the highway code?

[motormad]

I don't turn right at the cheap street junction.

I speed infrequently. But when I do it's not for any period of time, usually late at night or belting down a slip road onto a motorway. Never in built up areas.
I will park on the double yellows outside the cash point at Sainsburys. Nowhere else.

No-ones perfect

[Biker1]

Do you ever speed / park on double-yellows for 30 seconds / turn right at the Cheap Street junction / change lanes without indicating or carry out any other manoeuvre that goes against the spirit of the highway code?

Most of the things you mention here are not just "against the spirit of the Highway Code", they are against the law!

Yes we do; the same's for road speed.

Fair enough, just checking because so do I!

[On the edge]

And it would seem the policeman chose to do the same which resulted in this thread being created.

MM- where do you stand on the relevancy point? Do you ever speed / park on double-yellows for 30 seconds / turn right at the Cheap Street junction / change lanes without indicating or carry out any other manoeuvre that goes against the spirit of the highway code?

It's also down to perception. I wouldn't eat in a Restaurant where I saw the Chef stand outside having a fag. That's not illegal either. Yes, I know they may well do so 'round the back' where I can't see, but as the saying goes, perception is everything.

[Exhausted]

So what you're saying is that, basically, the same laws of the "road" apply to "private" land that has public access... eg a petrol station forecourt.
I am not so sure that BP is classed as private land either..... like a footpath to someone's house... implied right of access..

Pretty much yes. If the public have access. But, and I know that you are hoping that this will make your no right turn sign legal, any signs on that land will only have a legal status if they have been the subject of a traffic regulation order. There are signs on the pumps in some fuel stations telling you to not use your mobile. They also are unenforceable in law.

The land around the BP station has an owner. I'm not sure who, but it isn't common land. If the owner decides to close down the station and develop it for some other purpose, he/she/they have a perfect right to do so. They can also, as their right, exclude the public from whatever they chose to put there. It may be some rich dude who wants to have a private garden alongside the A4 close to his favourite pub.

[x2lls]

Not only Newbury(ish) residents have an issue with this it seems.

Every point made here has been replicated, and more.

http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/?t=5968