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> Cheap labour post Brexit
newres
post Oct 14 2017, 08:42 AM
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We stayed in a hotel in Bristol overnight and most of the staff were white non UK citizens. It occurred to me that if we opted out of the freedom of movement would we get that labour from the commonwealth and I wondered how the "take back control" folk would feel about that?
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TallDarkAndHands...
post Oct 14 2017, 11:12 AM
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QUOTE (newres @ Oct 14 2017, 09:42 AM) *
We stayed in a hotel in Bristol overnight and most of the staff were non white UK citizens. It occurred to me that if we opted out of the freedom of movement would we get that labour from the commonwealth and I wondered how the "take back control" folk would feel about that?

Perhaps wages would rise for locals to take the jobs and Mr and Mrs newres may have to pay an extra 20 quid to stay the night. Would that be a problem for poor diddums?

PS Interesting you say that most of the staff were non white UK citizens? How do you know? Did you see some passports??
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newres
post Oct 14 2017, 12:53 PM
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I made an error in my post made on an iPhone so hard to check before posting. Corrected.

I take your point about increasing wages, but we don't really have unemployed people to replace them. We will have a labour shortage. I just wondered how people would feel if they will be happier with non white replacements. I rather suspect not.
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SirWilliam
post Oct 14 2017, 01:10 PM
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I still can't get my head round the fact that we pay people to stay at home at the same time "encourage" those from Eastern Europe to take up positions some menial some skilled . Pre minimum wage days I could understand it , but now ? While we are on the subject , how much money goes out of the Country to support those family members who are still back in Romania or wherever ?
Don't get me wrong , I am not one of the "send 'm home " brigade , just interested in the thought process that got us to this point , and more importantly , how is it going to end ?


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The Hatter
post Oct 14 2017, 02:42 PM
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The bosses might end up being paid fairer wages too which will reduce prices. I think the biggest problem will be with nurses and doctors. No one is worried about where people come from if they are here doing a job.
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newres
post Oct 14 2017, 03:40 PM
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QUOTE (The Hatter @ Oct 14 2017, 03:42 PM) *
The bosses might end up being paid fairer wages too which will reduce prices. I think the biggest problem will be with nurses and doctors. No one is worried about where people come from if they are here doing a job.

I don't think that's right. I haven't seen figures but I doubt many here under freedom of movement are unemployed.
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newres
post Oct 14 2017, 04:04 PM
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QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Oct 14 2017, 02:10 PM) *
I still can't get my head round the fact that we pay people to stay at home at the same time "encourage" those from Eastern Europe to take up positions some menial some skilled . Pre minimum wage days I could understand it , but now ? While we are on the subject , how much money goes out of the Country to support those family members who are still back in Romania or wherever ?
Don't get me wrong , I am not one of the "send 'm home " brigade , just interested in the thought process that got us to this point , and more importantly , how is it going to end ?

Who do we pay to stay at home? We have virtually full employment. Our economy and our infrastructure is dependent upon immigrants. The same people moaning that the NHS is swamped with immigrants and we can't see a doctor would be moaning that they can't get the care they need because there's not enough doctors, nurses and ancillary staff. We need them.
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The Hatter
post Oct 14 2017, 04:55 PM
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QUOTE (newres @ Oct 14 2017, 04:40 PM) *
I don't think that's right. I haven't seen figures but I doubt many here under freedom of movement are unemployed.


There was a late news programme about it recently. We haven't been training anywhere near enough people for the NHS for a long time due to cuts and a bad way of training. They also said we have relied on NHS staff from the Cimmonwealth since the 1960s.
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SirWilliam
post Oct 14 2017, 07:32 PM
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QUOTE (The Hatter @ Oct 14 2017, 05:55 PM) *
There was a late news programme about it recently. We haven't been training anywhere near enough people for the NHS for a long time due to cuts and a bad way of training. They also said we have relied on NHS staff from the Cimmonwealth since the 1960s.


Only goes to show that political incompetence is nothing new . angry.gif


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newres
post Oct 14 2017, 08:34 PM
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QUOTE (The Hatter @ Oct 14 2017, 05:55 PM) *
There was a late news programme about it recently. We haven't been training anywhere near enough people for the NHS for a long time due to cuts and a bad way of training. They also said we have relied on NHS staff from the Cimmonwealth since the 1960s.

The point is that we need the immigrants here. We don't have unemployment so we won't be able to fill the jobs if we stop EU citizens coming. That will mean more immigration from the commonwealth. In other words more brown faces. Not what Farage had in mind.
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TallDarkAndHands...
post Oct 14 2017, 10:29 PM
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QUOTE (newres @ Oct 14 2017, 09:34 PM) *
The point is that we need the immigrants here. We don't have unemployment so we won't be able to fill the jobs if we stop EU citizens coming. That will mean more immigration from the commonwealth. In other words more brown faces. Not what Farage had in mind.


Dont worry. Be plenty of unemployment post brexit according to the remainers.
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SirWilliam
post Oct 15 2017, 08:38 AM
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On a practical note , why is preordained that we have to have borders and tariffs between us and the European mainland ? Surely a "quid pro quo " approach with , say Belgium , ( Forget France ) , would work , or is it as one suspects an affront to the federalists ? Seems to me that we are all being lead by those who think they know best as opposed to actually knowing so.


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newres
post Oct 15 2017, 08:40 AM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Oct 14 2017, 11:29 PM) *
Dont worry. Be plenty of unemployment post brexit according to the remainers.

All good then. As long as we've "taken back control".
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blackdog
post Oct 15 2017, 09:44 AM
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QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Oct 15 2017, 09:38 AM) *
On a practical note , why is preordained that we have to have borders and tariffs between us and the European mainland ? Surely a "quid pro quo " approach with , say Belgium , ( Forget France ) , would work , or is it as one suspects an affront to the federalists ? Seems to me that we are all being lead by those who think they know best as opposed to actually knowing so.


I fear that your practical approach is impractical. All member states of the EU have to apply the same border controls on trade in order not to have the rest put up border controls around them. It's how the customs zone works, one set of customs for all. And, of course, Belgium cannot make a trade deal with us without breaking their agreement with the EU, in effect leaving the EU.

We are being led by a bunch who either believe that the EU will cave and give us what we want or don't give a toss and believe we will be fine with WTO tariffs. The possibility that the EU might not cave is beginning to sink in with with the first lot and the others still don't give a toss.
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je suis Charlie
post Oct 15 2017, 10:19 AM
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QUOTE (newres @ Oct 15 2017, 09:40 AM) *
All good then. As long as we've "taken back control".

Now you're getting the idea! Well done you.
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je suis Charlie
post Oct 15 2017, 10:22 AM
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QUOTE (blackdog @ Oct 15 2017, 10:44 AM) *
I fear that your practical approach is impractical. All member states of the EU have to apply the same border controls on trade in order not to have the rest put up border controls around them. It's how the customs zone works, one set of customs for all. And, of course, Belgium cannot make a trade deal with us without breaking their agreement with the EU, in effect leaving the EU.

We are being led by a bunch who either believe that the EU will cave and give us what we want or don't give a toss and believe we will be fine with WTO tariffs. The possibility that the EU might not cave is beginning to sink in with with the first lot and the others still don't give a toss.

And with Mutti being the sticking point and with German car makers already starting to worry and put pressure on her it won't be long before the cracks appear in the fortress Europe. Stop worrying, sit back, enjoy the new freedoms.
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Mr Brown
post Oct 15 2017, 10:45 AM
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Not sure enjoy is the right word; outlook is bleak any which way you look at it. It's become pretty clear that we won't find it easy on our own. It's also very clear to most that 'exit from Brexit' would come at a cost too. Perhaps there was a modicum of enjoyment having a last drink in the first class bar if the Titanic!
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SirWilliam
post Oct 15 2017, 11:11 AM
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When all else fails we are safe in the knowledge that Iran will soon have the capability of destroying half of Europe anyway. Instead of worrying about the lifeboats maybe it would be advisable to avoid icebergs in the first place .


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Mr Brown
post Oct 15 2017, 12:04 PM
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QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Oct 15 2017, 12:11 PM) *
When all else fails we are safe in the knowledge that Iran will soon have the capability of destroying half of Europe anyway. Instead of worrying about the lifeboats maybe it would be advisable to avoid icebergs in the first place .


Trouble is Sir W, we've hit it already. If we'd got the design right in the first place, the Titanic might not have gone down, spot any similarity?
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SirWilliam
post Oct 15 2017, 05:17 PM
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QUOTE (Mr Brown @ Oct 15 2017, 01:04 PM) *
Trouble is Sir W, we've hit it already. If we'd got the design right in the first place, the Titanic might not have gone down, spot any similarity?


Well they do say history repeats itself . wink.gif


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