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Newbury Today Forum _ Random Rants _ St Georges Day
Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Apr 23 2010, 07:27 AM
It's St Georges Day today. A day to be proud to be English. Fly the flag for England.
Posted by: diamond41970 Apr 23 2010, 07:36 AM
It sure is and isn't it fantastic that a free party is being thrown for the residents of St George's Avenue !!!
http://www.newburysound.co.uk/avenue-party--i-5563.php
Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Apr 23 2010, 07:40 AM
http://www.newburysound.co.uk/avenue-party--i-5563.php
In the words of Victor Meldew. I don't believe it.......
Still at least the other Streets of Newbury may have less drunks in it today!
Posted by: Bill1 Apr 23 2010, 09:18 AM
Hmmmm!
Well I'll be celebrating it in an Avenue (amongst other establishments) , but not that one..........
Posted by: dannyboy Apr 23 2010, 10:55 AM
Still at least the other Streets of Newbury may have less drunks in it today!
Meaning?
Posted by: Iommi Apr 23 2010, 10:57 AM
They'll all be at St George's Avenue, beating their missus and kids up!
Posted by: dannyboy Apr 23 2010, 10:58 AM
It is a party for the residents. No mention of any alcohol.
Posted by: Bloggo Apr 23 2010, 11:09 AM
don't you think you may be a little naive with this post?
Posted by: Iommi Apr 23 2010, 11:15 AM
Or at least, a sense of humour failure!
Posted by: Bloggo Apr 23 2010, 11:34 AM
Well maybe but some posts are difficult to translate.
Posted by: Iommi Apr 23 2010, 12:39 PM
I meant he had a sense of humour failure!
Posted by: Bloggo Apr 23 2010, 12:42 PM
exactly
Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Apr 23 2010, 12:45 PM
Perhaps DannyBoy lives in St Georges Avenue....
Its a lesson to us all though. Throw all your cr@p out onto the street, let your dogs do their mess anywhere you like and wait for someone to come along, spend £150,000 on 'sprucing' your area up and then get thrown a free party. I'm going home to chuck my old mattress out on the pavement.
Posted by: Bloggo Apr 23 2010, 01:08 PM
Its a lesson to us all though. Throw all your cr@p out onto the street, let your dogs do their mess anywhere you like and wait for someone to come along, spend £150,000 on 'sprucing' your area up and then get thrown a free party. I'm going home to chuck my old mattress out on the pavement.
Ironic eh. A reward for ASB.
You couldn't make it up
Posted by: dannyboy Apr 23 2010, 01:19 PM
No not at all. Housing associations don't organize street piss ups.
Posted by: JeffG Apr 23 2010, 02:40 PM
To those people dissing St George's Avenue residents (all of them, by implication): do you have first hand knowledge of this, or is it hearsay?
Personally, I've only been down there when on the bus (a rare occurrence it has to be said) and haven't noticed anything out of the ordinary, but wouldn't choose to go down there otherwise. I have my own opinions of the area, but it's all hearsay and I wouldn't post them as fact here.
Posted by: Iommi Apr 23 2010, 02:49 PM
No, they just house them!
Anyway, no-one said they had, only that it is where the drunks could be found.We never said all of the residents, but there are some unsavoury types down there. Here's a link to the the latest fact (there have been others)!
http://www.newburytoday.co.uk/News/Article.aspx?articleID=12792
Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Apr 23 2010, 03:03 PM
Anyway, no-one said they had, only that it is where the drunks could be found.We never said all of the residents, but there are some unsavoury types down there. Here's a link to the the latest fact (there have been others)!
http://www.newburytoday.co.uk/News/Article.aspx?articleID=12792
How about this one?
http://www.thamesvalley.police.uk/yournh/yournh-tvp-pol-area/yournh-tvp-pol-area-berksw/yournh-tvp-pol-area-berksw-west-berks/pub-pg-nh-upds-N199?id=106945
Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Apr 23 2010, 03:04 PM
http://www.thamesvalley.police.uk/yournh/yournh-tvp-pol-area/yournh-tvp-pol-area-berksw/yournh-tvp-pol-area-berksw-west-berks/pub-pg-nh-upds-N199?id=106945
And this..
http://www.thamesvalley.police.uk/acc/yournh/yournh-tvp-pol-area/yournh-tvp-pol-area-berksw/yournh-tvp-pol-area-berksw-west-berks/yournh-tvp-pol-area-wberks-newsitem?id=122563
I could go on...
Posted by: Roost Apr 23 2010, 03:07 PM
Yeah but from my experience of such estates, it is always a minority of residents that cause 95% of the problems.
PS, at what level of expenditure does a housing 'estate' become a 'development'?!
Posted by: JeffG Apr 23 2010, 03:47 PM
Thanks for all the links - made interesting reading, particularly the TVP one. There's a couple of things that confuse me though (mind you, that's not too hard! ):
Pound Street: There seems to be a big police focus on this road, but it's only a few houses on one side and Jewson's and a few businesses on the other before it becomes Enborne Road.
The Oaks: What or where is this exactly - all the mapping programs take me to Sandleford Rise.
Posted by: Rachel Apr 23 2010, 04:05 PM
):Pound Street: There seems to be a big police focus on this road, but it's only a few houses on one side and Jewson's and a few businesses on the other before it becomes Enborne Road.
The Oaks: What or where is this exactly - all the mapping programs take me to Sandleford Rise.
The Oaks that I know isn't a housing estate. Doubt it would be of interest to most people.
Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Apr 23 2010, 04:24 PM
):Pound Street: There seems to be a big police focus on this road, but it's only a few houses on one side and Jewson's and a few businesses on the other before it becomes Enborne Road.
The Oaks: What or where is this exactly - all the mapping programs take me to Sandleford Rise.
Here is your answer Jeff..
http://www.thamesvalley.police.uk/acc/yournh/yournh-tvp-pol-area/yournh-tvp-pol-area-berksw/yournh-tvp-pol-area-berksw-west-berks/yournh-tvp-pol-area-n199.htm
Posted by: dannyboy Apr 23 2010, 06:44 PM
Anyway, no-one said they had, .Newburysound articles quotes SSW.
Posted by: dannyboy Apr 23 2010, 06:48 PM
Pound Street is where Newbury Mosque is
Posted by: dannyboy Apr 23 2010, 07:24 PM
I bet there are just as many battered wives & girlfriends in the posh ends of town.
Posted by: JeffG Apr 23 2010, 07:54 PM
http://www.thamesvalley.police.uk/acc/yournh/yournh-tvp-pol-area/yournh-tvp-pol-area-berksw/yournh-tvp-pol-area-berksw-west-berks/yournh-tvp-pol-area-n199.htm
Well, not really. I've seen that before (or at least the graphic version of the page - it was one of the links given).
It doesn't tell me why Pound (not really long enough to be a proper) Street is such a den of iniquity (I'm assuming the mosque reference made by another poster was not really relevant), or where/what The Oaks is when maps just point to Sandleford Rise.
Posted by: gizmo Apr 23 2010, 08:11 PM
Personally, I've only been down there when on the bus (a rare occurrence it has to be said) and haven't noticed anything out of the ordinary, but wouldn't choose to go down there otherwise. I have my own opinions of the area, but it's all hearsay and I wouldn't post them as fact here.
I do have first hand knowledge of this and over 30 years worth. these homes were built after WW1 as "Homes fit for Heros".
Apart from a few residents down there the rest are a varirety of violent, druggie, alcoholic, thieving dregs of humanity.
I was assaulted by a resident from there, they got a caution. another resident stole from us. Another resident assaulted my grandfather who is in his 70's. another one was selling Class A drugs near my home. I could go on and on with this list all evening.
I also live near a Soveriegn Housing block of flats and in the last week we have had ASB and the boys and girls in blue turn up on mass.
Posted by: CBW137Y Apr 23 2010, 08:22 PM
Hear, hear!!
I went to primary and secondary school with a number of St Georges Avenue residents. I am still to this day friends with a couple of these people, who have grown up to be hard working, decent and law abiding citizens. The others had a hard time with their family life, granted. Not sure what happened to them and what their circumstances are now. For all I know, they could well have turned to crime, drink or drugs themselves. While I know that certain areas of town have a terrible reputation, please don't tar everyone with the same brush.
So what if the folk of St Georges Ave are having a party? I very much doubt that if there is any trouble, it will leave the avenue. If it's perhaps a little jealousy that they are having a party...then revert to the other thread about street names and famous local people, and nominate a street name to include 'George', move there and throw a street party in a couple of years
Posted by: Strafin Apr 23 2010, 08:53 PM
Sandleford Rise hasn't existed for at least 4 years, probably more. It got redeveloped into The Oaks.
Posted by: Iommi Apr 24 2010, 12:40 AM
St Georges Ave is still known as a toilet regardless. Everyone in Newbury 'knows' that. Sh*t sticks, regrettably.
Posted by: JeffG Apr 24 2010, 09:18 AM
That's interesting because Google maps shows it as Sandleford Rise and the caption says the map data is from 2010. It also shows Falkland Veterinary Clinic in its new location - I think they moved within the last couple of years.
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?client=firefox-a&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=51.385562,-1.322629&spn=0.009695,0.01929&z=16
Posted by: Strafin Apr 24 2010, 09:49 AM
Oh OK, Google maps MUST be correct then. I'm a little suprised that supposedly local people on a local forum don't know some of the main estates in Newbury.
Posted by: Iommi Apr 24 2010, 10:35 AM
I've lived in Newbury all my life and I couldn't have told you where The Oaks is, but I could tell you where Sandleford Rise is!
Posted by: JeffG Apr 24 2010, 01:56 PM
Exactly. I've lived in Newbury since 1974 but with all the recent building and re-naming of places (e.g. Turnpike rebranded as Clay Hill) it's hard to keep pace!
Posted by: Roost Apr 24 2010, 02:40 PM
The Oaks is indeed what was Sandleford Rise. It was redeveloped on a rolling scale from about 2000 with the first residents moving in right from completion of the first flats / houses.
I believe it was finished around 2006.
Incidentally the chinese just by The Oaks on Newtown Road is one of the best in town and also does a mean fish and chips!!
Iommi, sounds like you may remember the Rise for the same reasons that I do..!
Posted by: user23 Apr 25 2010, 06:32 PM
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?client=firefox-a&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=51.385562,-1.322629&spn=0.009695,0.01929&z=16
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?client=firefox-a&hl=en&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Newbury,+Berkshire,+United+Kingdom&ll=51.404754,-1.318681&spn=0.001787,0.004823&z=18
Posted by: Iommi Apr 25 2010, 08:49 PM
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?client=firefox-a&hl=en&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Newbury,+Berkshire,+United+Kingdom&ll=51.404754,-1.318681&spn=0.001787,0.004823&z=18
Correct, but in this case irrelevant.
Posted by: diamond41970 Apr 25 2010, 09:13 PM
Sorry are we still allowed to celebrate St George's Day ???
Posted by: Iommi Apr 25 2010, 09:16 PM
Perhaps, but I have been told that the old bill were summonsed en masse to the 'Ave' again, yesterday!
Posted by: Newbury Expat Apr 26 2010, 06:10 PM
And a protest today.
http://www.newburytoday.co.uk/News/Article.aspx?articleID=13128
Some residents are clearly fed up with some of the 'people' who live in the Avenue.
Posted by: JeffG Apr 26 2010, 06:24 PM
The problem is, if the family are moved, where are they moved to? They get foisted on some other community, who then have to deal with the same problem. I personally don't know what the solution is, but it must be a problem that's repeated over and over again on estates throughout the country.
Perhaps there is some uninhabited offshore island where they could all be moved to...
Posted by: dannyboy Apr 26 2010, 06:25 PM
http://www.newburytoday.co.uk/News/Article.aspx?articleID=13128
Some residents are clearly fed up with some of the 'people' who live in the Avenue.
one person.
Hopefully there will be some apologising to the rest soon.
Posted by: Iommi Apr 26 2010, 06:28 PM
I doubt it.
Posted by: dannyboy Apr 26 2010, 06:37 PM
Funny that.
A group of residents ask for what many here post endlessly about & no-one has the balls to say 'I was wrong'
Posted by: Iommi Apr 26 2010, 06:40 PM
Who was wrong and why? St George's Ave has had a reputation since I can remember. At the moment a whole bunch of residents campaigned to get a family out. This doesn't mean there are no more, but in any case, I don't think anyone said that St George's Ave was made up entirely of hardened thugs.
Posted by: hamster Apr 26 2010, 07:43 PM
Many of the posts on this thread prove what a bunch of small minded snobs primarily post on this forum.
I refer specifically to the slating given to St Georges Avenue. If you knew the road you would know that actually it is a very small percentage of residents who bring it down, unfortunately those small number create the most visual and "news worthy" problems that create your snobbish views.
Yes I grew up there and yes I was lucky enough to have a grounded mother (yes alas a single mother), my sibling and I went to university and we both pay through the nose for Council Tax as adults just as you do. A few of my "Scabby Ave" friends have done okay for themselves too.
I still have family there and there is no doubt there are problems there but your snobbish-ness disgusts me as much as the state of the road I grow up in.
You will never know the way I felt at school when the teachers asked where we lived and what our parents did and the scorn from class mates because of where I lived and because I only had a mother not a father. The scorn those kids showed me were passed on from their parents like you lot.
If I do anything I will teach my kids to take each person as they come and not lump them into being I quote "Drunks", "wife beaters", "cr@p" unless the individual deserves it.
Don’t bother responding with comments like "sense of humour failure" etc as I have every right to be annoyed as you are lumping my family and many other nice people in that road into your comments and they do not deserve it.
Posted by: dannyboy Apr 26 2010, 07:47 PM
I think you are being unfair to snobs. Bourgois fascists maybe?
Posted by: hamster Apr 26 2010, 07:54 PM
I think snob probably covers it, they would like to think they are middle class but not sure we can define the classes anymore
Posted by: diamond41970 Apr 26 2010, 08:00 PM
I refer specifically to the slating given to St Georges Avenue. If you knew the road you would know that actually it is a very small percentage of residents who bring it down, unfortunately those small number create the most visual and "news worthy" problems that create your snobbish views.
Yes I grew up there and yes I was lucky enough to have a grounded mother (yes alas a single mother), my sibling and I went to university and we both pay through the nose for Council Tax as adults just as you do. A few of my "Scabby Ave" friends have done okay for themselves too.
I still have family there and there is no doubt there are problems there but your snobbish-ness disgusts me as much as the state of the road I grow up in.
You will never know the way I felt at school when the teachers asked where we lived and what our parents did and the scorn from class mates because of where I lived and because I only had a mother not a father. The scorn those kids showed me were passed on from their parents like you lot.
If I do anything I will teach my kids to take each person as they come and not lump them into being I quote "Drunks", "wife beaters", "cr@p" unless the individual deserves it.
Don’t bother responding with comments like "sense of humour failure" etc as I have every right to be annoyed as you are lumping my family and many other nice people in that road into your comments and they do not deserve it.
Hamster
You are of course quite correct in that sometimes a few residents can bring down a whole street but it does seem to be that problem families are located there by whatever powers that be. I used to live on Enborne Road and would spend many an evening watching the police helicopter going up and down the Avenue after having (maybe) chased a resident back there. I am no means a snob in fact I grew up on a council estate in South Yorkshire and my step father was on benefits for most of my life so I too was painted with the "poor little bit*h from the scabby council estate". Does that make me a 1980's CHAV ???? It is not just the Avenue in Newbury that has a reputation there is the Nightingales and Skylings - obviously Sandleford Rise (now another name I have learned from here) seems to have gotten a little better. Whatever town you are in there are rough areas but that does not make the people who do not live in those areas "snobs". I have tried to teach my kids that just because someone is from a certain area does not make them rough but it seems that St Georges has a reputation that will always be there. I am glad you went to university as that is more than I managed but I still live in a "council house" and still have the stigma of that - regardless of where it is situated.
Posted by: hamster Apr 26 2010, 08:13 PM
Hello fellow 80's chav ;-)
I am only referring to those on here who quite clearly in what they have written look down with a condescending attitude on a large group of people who happen to live in a certain area. That attitude by definition is being a snob.
Posted by: Hugh Saskin Apr 26 2010, 08:30 PM
Fair play to you Hamster. I know a lady who was a single mother in the 1970s when it held far more of a stigma in society than it does today. Pam did a brilliant job, without much dosh at all, of bringing up baby despite all the sh1te you got in those days. Baby turned into a good lad, a bright lad, and a hard worker. He started as a clerk and is now Finance Director of one of the richest outfits in the land. Could say more, but that would blow his cover. Mum, now retired, is sooo proud of him and so am I. Mum wants for nothing now, bless her.
Posted by: Iommi Apr 26 2010, 08:41 PM
The point is, areas of Newbury have a bad reputation. They are usually where there is a high density of social housing. St George's Ave happens to be one of them. Proof, if any is need, is that of a Housing Association felt the needing to spruce it up. There are other areas, indeed, I live near one of the worst areas in Newbury and it is no where near St George's Ave.
The most notorious areas I am aware of are, Bishops Green, St George's Ave (known by many as 'The Ave'), Sandleford Rise, The Nightingales, Skylings, Turnpike, Pigeons Farm Estate, Bardown Estate, and there are others.
Coming from an area doesn't mean one is, by default, a drunk thug, but it doesn't stop the reputation for the area from existing. I have spent most of my life in council estates and I couldn't give a stuff what people think of me or where I come from, and my accent proves it.
Snobbery is alive and well in England.
Posted by: Strafin Apr 26 2010, 08:51 PM
I lived in the Ave for a bit back in the late 90's. I quite liked it, and I would say that it is a place I felt safe. Primarily because most of the miscreants don't do it on their doorstep! It had a mix of good and bad, but even with that a good sense of community. Anybody could, and would get you anything you wanted - normally stolen - but they would help you out either way. If I was stuck somewhere at 4 in the morning someone from the Ave would come and get me, even if they had to walk. I wonder how many of my friends now would do that? I think the sense of wanting to fit in and belong means that a lot do go off the rails there, as there are higher percentage of troublemakers per squarefoot than other places, but bad habits doesn't necessarily make a bad person.
Posted by: x2lls Apr 26 2010, 09:49 PM
The news article specifies just one person. 'A 39 year old man'. If the allegations are true, then if the said individual is capable of terrorising a community, I feel for his family. Could it be that his family are also victims?
Posted by: hamster Apr 26 2010, 10:04 PM
Here here, I think the point is (a cliché of course) you should never judge a book by its cover. There are bound to be problems where people with various social "issues" are unavoidably but by necessity lumped together, but those people happen to be mixed in with every day people who are just trying to get on with life.
Stepping off soapbox..now
Posted by: Iommi Apr 26 2010, 10:19 PM
Congratulations to the neighbourhood getting together to get something done about it. I wonder if this was after a failure of a housing association to do something sooner? From a few anecdotes I have read, it seems families, or individuals, have to be really bad, over a protracted period of time, before something practical is done.
Posted by: hamster Apr 26 2010, 10:21 PM
I doubt if he is the victim if people have gone to those lengths (a protest!). It takes a lot of guts I imagine to stand up to someone who is/perceived as intimidating; even within a large group.
I admire them; at least they are showing they are not prepared to put up with the anti social behaviour. If the police don't/can't/won't do anything at least this might prompt some action with the powers that be or you never know! the chap/family in question might take a long hard look at themselves
Posted by: Iommi Apr 26 2010, 10:32 PM
I think what x2lls meant was, he might have 'terrorised' his own family as well. They, therefore, might also be victims.
The problem is, if the authorities don't deal with these issues more readily, one could see more 'vigilante' groups being organised, which could even lead to 'innocent' families being evicted.
I think this quite fascinating development needs to be taken seriously by those that have 'allowed' it to happen.
Posted by: x2lls Apr 26 2010, 10:52 PM
The problem is, if the authorities don't deal with these issues more readily, one could see more 'vigilante' groups being organised, which could even lead to 'innocent' families being evicted.
I think think this quite fascinating development needs to be taken seriously by those that have 'allowed' it to happen.
Iommi, you got it in one.
Posted by: Darren Apr 27 2010, 12:41 AM
Perhaps there is some uninhabited offshore island where they could all be moved to...
If evicted for breach of their tenancy agreement, they will be deemed to have made themselves homeless. As such they will not be re-housed, will not be entitled to housing benefits and will be required to find their own accommodation and pay for it themselves.
There's always Scotland....
Posted by: Bloggo Apr 27 2010, 07:42 AM
I think this quite fascinating development needs to be taken seriously by those that have 'allowed' it to happen.
Yes, you are absolutely correct. Again an example of not dealing with the problem early enough.
Posted by: dannyboy Apr 27 2010, 08:13 AM
The problem is, if the authorities don't deal with these issues more readily, one could see more 'vigilante' groups being organised, which could even lead to 'innocent' families being evicted.
I think this quite fascinating development needs to be taken seriously by those that have 'allowed' it to happen.
So now the street isn't full of drunken layabouts but of vigilantes. Hugh was right.
Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Apr 27 2010, 08:31 AM
Personally I think it's good that the residents are taking mattes into there own hands. After all what other alternative do they have when the law is so weak and ineffectual? Power to the people.
Posted by: Bloggo Apr 27 2010, 08:55 AM
I've said this before, if the law enforcement system is not robust enough to look after the law abiding and prosecute those that flagrantly disregard the law then people will look to defend themselves.
Posted by: Iommi Apr 27 2010, 08:57 AM
At the moment it isn't exactly either...
About what?
Posted by: dannyboy Apr 27 2010, 11:03 AM
About what?
your wriggling being worthy of a politician
Posted by: dannyboy Apr 27 2010, 11:07 AM
Christ you do have a short memory. You must be working to much.
Posted by: Iommi Apr 27 2010, 11:33 AM
What wriggling, or have you run out of anything to say? Your last two or three posts have been rather pointless. If you would like to 'spit it out', than perhaps we can get somewhere. If you are joining the user23/hugh (sometimes) gang of just having a pop at posters for the sake of it, rather than engage or challenge, then sadly this forum would have lost another potentially valuable contributor. In my view, your posts seem to have dropped off lately, where as in the past, I found them interesting, regardless if I agreed or not.
Posted by: Bill1 Apr 27 2010, 11:44 AM
From my experience of over 30 years in this town I note that in the Newbury Today story's picture there is at least one person of ill refute who I know has been in serious trouble with the law on many occasions, so whoever has upset the (good & bad) residents really must have been up to all sorts of "mischief".
Posted by: Iommi Apr 27 2010, 12:53 PM
Yes, I couldn't help but grin at that as well! I presume that this person is a part of quite a large family?
Posted by: dannyboy Apr 27 2010, 01:07 PM
Having a pop at posters? Well, I'd say that was better than having a pop at residents who live on streets with a 'reputation'.
your opening post on this thread = They'll all be at St George's Avenue, beating their missus and kids up!
then we have this a while later = Perhaps, but I have been told that the old bill were summonsed en masse to the 'Ave' again, yesterday!
then the backtracking starts = I don't think anyone said that St George's Ave was made up entirely of hardened thugs.
then the classic politicians answer = I have spent most of my life in council estates and I couldn't give a stuff what people think of me or where I come from, and my accent proves it. that line is almost worthy of a satirical sketch show.
Posted by: Iommi Apr 27 2010, 01:19 PM
The Ave has a poor reputation, that cannot refuted...it has.
I also used a tongue in cheek smilie (as you probably know means something to be taken lightly - meant in jest). You asked what what TDAH meant by there being fewer drunks in town. I replied with a, possibly, crass joke.
This was a statement of FACT. I was told by an ex-'Ave' person on Sunday afternoon.
So what is back tracking about this, it is true? NO-ONE said that the Ave only has drunk thugs live there.
How... it is 100% true? I was raised a 100 yards from one Newbury's most notorious 'hard men'. Someone no longer with us as it happens. I said hello to his widow last Sunday.
Posted by: Roost Apr 27 2010, 04:46 PM
Only problem was that it was one of the people in uniform.......!!!!
Posted by: Iommi Apr 27 2010, 05:01 PM
Don't, we'll have the Beak on here next, complaining how unfair it is to tar all with the same brush!
Posted by: Bill1 Apr 27 2010, 05:08 PM
Yes
Posted by: Bill1 Apr 27 2010, 05:09 PM
Yes I did notice that too
Posted by: Iommi Apr 27 2010, 05:31 PM
Ah, I've just recognised one of the plod! An ex-barman of mine. Arms folded in a defensive manner, ready to pounce should it kick-off!
Posted by: Bloggo Apr 28 2010, 07:43 AM
That's interesting Iommi. I guess you run a Pub then?
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