Printable Version of Topic

Posted by: BMR Jan 1 2011, 09:35 PM

Just how low will West Berkshire Council stoop. I stopped in one of the nearly empty car parks in Newbury today (New Year's Day) to see the Green Goblin putting parking tickets on a number of cars which had not paid for parking tickets. Yes - since 1st January is on a Saturday, it is not a Bank Holiday, and therefore, as the sign confirms, "Normal parking charges apply". Come on. It is New Year's Day.

I was fortunate - I saw the Green Goblin, and since I only had 20 minutes before meeting someone, I beat a hasty retreat, and left the car park. Many others were less fortunate, and got a surprise when they got back to their cars.

So, I have made a New Year resolution. I won't pay for a parking ticket in Newbury. Either I will shop when I can park for free, or I will go to the various retail parks, or I will go to Reading or Basingstoke.

Happy New Year.

Posted by: Strafin Jan 1 2011, 10:51 PM

Andover is a great little town, we have started going there quite a lot, parking at Asda.

Posted by: user23 Jan 2 2011, 09:01 AM

Bizarre. You're berating them when you've also identified that "Normal parking charges apply" and you've decided to make your life more difficult and to go to Reading or Basingstoke where they were also charging for parking yesterday.

As they say up North, there's nowt so strange as folk.

Posted by: Jayjay Jan 2 2011, 09:57 AM

I am stunned, I finally agree with User 23.

Posted by: GMR Jan 2 2011, 10:32 AM

Why are people complaining about Parking charges in Newbury? I always park in Newbury and i park for free; Sainsbury's. There is also Halfords and side streets you can park for free. Nobody should have to pay while shopping in Newbury. Unless of course you don't know Newbury.

Posted by: Richard Garvie Jan 2 2011, 10:48 AM

I think parking charges on New Years Day is a little bit much. Same on Christmas Day.A friend of mine went out drinking on New Years Eve, leaving their car in town to collect on New Years Day afternoon. Imagine the shock she got collecting her car yesterday? What do the council suggest? Drink Driving? There were no trains, no busses and a taxi from Newbury to Thatcham was just over £20.

I did what I suppose most people did. Stay at home or visit friends within walking distance!!!

Posted by: user23 Jan 2 2011, 10:51 AM

Is this Labour policy, that parking charges shouldn't apply to those who go out drinking the night before?

Posted by: Richard Garvie Jan 2 2011, 10:54 AM

Not at all. I just personally think that to charge people on New Years Day is a bit much. Did you go into town yesterday? Were there many shops open? Also, did the parking attendent get any additional pay for working yesterday?

Posted by: user23 Jan 2 2011, 10:57 AM

Most of the shops in town were open. I doubt very much whether many people got additional pay for working yesterday.

Posted by: GMR Jan 2 2011, 10:58 AM

There are taxi's and if people live close enough to Newbury they could walk in. But it is stupid if they are going to drink and take their cars.

Posted by: Richard Garvie Jan 2 2011, 11:10 AM

All retail staff got paid extra yesterday as Xmas Day, New Years and Easter are classed as bank holidays. I didn't know if it was retail specific or if it applied to all sectors. If it does, that would suggest yesterday was in fact a bank holiday.

GMR, I simply suggesting that with no bus or train, and the high cost of taxi's which not everybody can afford, some people could be stupid enough to drive home. It happens all through the year, not just Christmas and New Year. At Christmas and New Year, we should be doing everything to discourage drink driving.

Posted by: user23 Jan 2 2011, 11:13 AM

All retail staff? How do you know this?

Posted by: GMR Jan 2 2011, 11:23 AM

I wasn't encouraging drink driving. I was just suggesting that there are alternatives. The trouble with what you are suggesting (leaving the car overnight) is that people will abuse it and spoil it for everybody else.

Didn't your friend have a pub near him? Not all pub pleasure is in town.

Posted by: Richard Garvie Jan 2 2011, 11:24 AM

I used to be a senior manager for a supermarket retailer. I would suggest that the parking attendant was on at least time and a half plus a day in lieu after talking to a West Berks employee this morning. If the council recognise the day as bank holiday for employees, why not parking?

Posted by: Richard Garvie Jan 2 2011, 11:27 AM

All I'm suggesting is that people should be allowed to leave their car overnight on Christmas Eve and New Years Eve. Or there could be a late night bus route like in other towns? Not everyone can afford taxi's.

I think she lives near a number of pubs, but if her friends are going to Newbury, why shouldn't she. I told her it was a silly decision to drive as it had been well publicised that charges were being enforced on Christmas and New Year in the paper. Her response was "I don't read the paper"!!!

Posted by: GMR Jan 2 2011, 11:47 AM

She may not read the papers but I presume she's got a brain? Therefore she should have engaged it and asked. That is what I would have done. For her inability to think she is now paying the price.

Why couldn't one of her friends give her a lift? If they were going that way.

I do agree, however, that it would be nice if the local council thought of those things... but then again we are talking about WBC.

Posted by: Richard Garvie Jan 2 2011, 12:08 PM

I will have to ask her, but I presume they all left their cars in town. Nice little earner for the council, but I still think they could of done it differently.

Posted by: dannyboy Jan 2 2011, 12:57 PM

I'm surprised at you.

For someone who spends their waking life poring over everything the council does looking for the smallest error & instance of them not following their own policy to the letter, I'd would have thought you'd be applauding the council for its actions.

Posted by: GMR Jan 2 2011, 01:00 PM

Expecting a council to do something differently would be a step too far. Their objective is themselves, not their public.

Posted by: GMR Jan 2 2011, 01:04 PM

To be fair isn't it the public's duty to hold our councils and councillors to count and check every detail? At least he cares, not many on here can say that.

Also; he is giving you (the members on here) something to debate instead of the usual rubbish you get on this forum.

If our friend didn't exist we'd have to invent him.

Happy New year.

Posted by: user23 Jan 2 2011, 01:06 PM

Unless you've asked every retailer across the country, you can't substantiate your statement that "All retail staff got paid extra yesterday". I suspect some didn't.

Posted by: GMR Jan 2 2011, 01:11 PM

'Some' is a small amount so the ayes have it. So you could give him it. Don't be so pedantic User23. It is a new year, your New years resolution should be that you will liven up.

Posted by: dannyboy Jan 2 2011, 01:40 PM

Their objectives are their public. In this instance the ones who bought parking tickets.

Normally posters on this forum would be up in arms about people who get drunk & are to hungover to collect their cars.

Posted by: GMR Jan 2 2011, 01:47 PM

Some would disagree with you. And which public?



is there such a thing as a 'normal' poster?

'Posters' are up in arms about anything that tickles their fancy. It is early days at the moment so i am sure the drink and driving brigade will be on soon voicing their opinions and demanding certain people are shot.

Look at the bright-side; it soon will be Christmas again and we can go through all this again.

Posted by: On the edge Jan 2 2011, 03:13 PM

Aaah a dose of seasonal wit. That's not how good old Adam Smith would see it! The truth of the matter accidentally let out in RG's earlier post where he said a WBC employee mentioned they'd get time and a half plus a day off in lieu for working the public holiday. What retail firm could afford to do both. Always easy to be generous with someone elses money!

Posted by: Richard Garvie Jan 2 2011, 04:47 PM

My point being that the council line is that Saturday was "just another trading day" and that parking charges should apply. If council employees are being paid extra due to it being a public holiday, then surely that contradicts their parking policy?

User, everyone I have ever worked for class New Years Day, Easter Sunday and Christmas Day as public holidays. Did the council charge for parking last year?

Posted by: user23 Jan 2 2011, 04:50 PM

Some folk will believe anything.

I wonder if this type of thing cancels itself out and there are people with similar views about Reading and Basingstoke charging to park on a Saturday who might be driving to Newbury in protest, or is this weirdness just confined to Newbury?

Posted by: dannyboy Jan 2 2011, 05:38 PM

RG did not say that the traffic wardens would get time and a half plus a day off in lieu for working the public holiday

Posted by: Richard Garvie Jan 2 2011, 05:40 PM

User, if you worked New Years Day, what would you get in addition to standard pay? Have you got an employee handbook?

Posted by: user23 Jan 2 2011, 05:52 PM

I did do some work on New Years Day.

I'll get nothing for it, however as it was my choice to work I think that's fair enough.

Posted by: Berkshirelad Jan 2 2011, 07:01 PM

The rules changed somewhat when public holidays were added to the statutory days of holiday (ie when statutory holiday increased from 20 to 28 days). At the same time, I believe, freedom was given as to when these days could be taken.

Posted by: Richard Garvie Jan 2 2011, 07:03 PM

What I mean is if you were asked to work. As in going out slapping tickets on windows.

Posted by: Strafin Jan 2 2011, 07:16 PM

I'd be suprised if many people got paid extra for working a normal Saturday. Whilst I think that the greenbacks are a waste of money and I don't agree with them being there at all, I think that in this instance there is not a valid complaint. Incidentally I got a ticket here on Boxing Day that cost me $190.

Posted by: Richard Garvie Jan 2 2011, 07:17 PM

But I'm pretty sure New Year is actually a public holiday.

Posted by: Simon Kirby Jan 2 2011, 07:50 PM

No, the Library was closed, so WBC considered Saturday to be a bank holiday.

I agree with BMR. I saw the wardens ticketing the car parks Saturday and I think a good number of folk that parked would have assumed new years day to be a bank holiday and not got a ticket. I think it was very grubby not to make the parking free on Saturday.

Posted by: Strafin Jan 2 2011, 07:53 PM

Maybe it will be open on Monday? I thinkthe library would be a different discussion if they have not kept to their published and agreed trading hours, whereas I do think the parking enforcements are clear, regardless of what WBC say, the bank holidays are not set by them.

Posted by: Richard Garvie Jan 2 2011, 08:04 PM

Simon, that's what I've been saying. The council line is the one that is suggesting Saturday was a normal trading day.

Posted by: Richard Garvie Jan 2 2011, 08:05 PM

The parking enforcement was advertised in advance, so really the council can say there should be no arguments. I just think that parking should have been free, and on Christmas Day.

Posted by: Chesapeake Jan 2 2011, 08:35 PM

Ok, I may have this all completely wrong but as far as I understand it if Christmas Day or New Years day fall on a Saturday or Sunday then the following Monday is made into the "Bank Holiday" as a Saturday or Sunday cannot be a "Bank Holiday". If I am wrong I am sure that someone will tell me!

Posted by: Richard Garvie Jan 2 2011, 08:38 PM

You are right, but that is in addition to the day itself.

Posted by: GMR Jan 2 2011, 08:43 PM

You are correct. Bank holiday is on Monday this year and Christmas.

Posted by: user23 Jan 2 2011, 08:59 PM

No it's not, there's a set amount of public holidays per year bar exceptional circumstances like the Royal Wedding this year.

Posted by: Richard Garvie Jan 2 2011, 09:10 PM

So why were tesco not open the full hours then? Or other retailers? Why were banks closed? Why were council staff on different pay? The library closed? If it's just a normal day, why the above?

It doesn't matter anyway. The council advertised that they would charge people. They did it. I've simply said that I don't think it's right. If people were suitably upset, they would have passed comment long before now, before the day itself. But for you to suggest that Saturday was "just another day" is incorrect. Were the trains running on Saturday? Buses? If not, why not?

Posted by: GMR Jan 2 2011, 09:15 PM

Yes, they have set amounts per year... but if Christmas falls on a Saturday or Sunday then the bank holiday will be put on the Monday (Monday and Tuesday because Christmas fell on Saturday and Boxing day fell on a Sunday in 2010).

Posted by: gel Jan 2 2011, 10:01 PM

Councils now have freedom to set their own parking charges, and are freed from previous Government's diktat: see

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/philipjohnston/8236588/Parking-fees-that-put-the-boot-into-business.html

The possibilty of WBC reducing is very remote IMO, despite damage constantly rising parking charges inflict on town traders; as previous poster indicated, those who know town, will know where it's free; visitors probably won't.

Of course part of justification for rises is to fund the Green Goblins so it's a viscious circle!

Posted by: dannyboy Jan 2 2011, 10:40 PM

Beacuse as employers all of the above decided to open as they felt fit. Were council staff on different pay or is this something else you are so sure of it must be true?

Posted by: user23 Jan 2 2011, 10:54 PM

A rise in parking charges means Council Tax may not have to rise, which benefits everyone in West Berkshire, so I'd certainly be in favour of it.

The simple solution for town traders is to subsidise parking by offering money back to shoppers, if they think it's that much of an issue.

Posted by: Iommi Jan 3 2011, 12:09 AM

BTW - As far as I know, regular Tesco don't get extra money for working bank holidays, but they can take a day in lieu if they so wish. Tesco only pay their staff statutory sick pay as well, and as I believe that is government funded, I suppose that doesn't really count as being paid by Tesco anyway.

I do think though, that it would have been seen as a goodwill gesture had the council waved parking charges on New Years day, but it is something I wouldn't have expected them to do.

Posted by: On the edge Jan 3 2011, 09:59 AM

That's not a bad idea. Could be coupled with what some other towns have done - a card which could be used as a purse for these small charges and a means of providing discount. A bit like Oyster.

Posted by: Biker1 Jan 3 2011, 10:15 AM

How low will they stoop? - pretty low - in 2009, at Christmas, many were ticketed for parking in the "free" car park in Northcroft Lane!.

Posted by: blackdog Jan 3 2011, 11:32 AM

To be fair the 'free' parking was limited (3 hours IIRC) so parkers were expected to display a ticket to show when their 3 hours ran out. It wasn't free for as long as you liked (no doubt to prevent those working in the town from filling up the car park by 8.30). But it wasn't made very clear and a number of parkers were caught out.

Posted by: Biker1 Jan 3 2011, 11:41 AM

Yes, and the Greenies knew this and were using it for easy pickings.

Posted by: dannyboy Jan 3 2011, 12:25 PM

In this day and age you'd have to be rather naive to park anywhere in the country in a controlled car park & not read the T&Cs.

Posted by: Biker1 Jan 3 2011, 12:33 PM

So, if it's their own fault, why are folks complaining in this post?

Posted by: dannyboy Jan 3 2011, 12:43 PM

Because admiting one is in the wrong isn't human nature. Being caught out is something humans are not well able to deal with. It is why many people can't see the funny side of a joke directed at them, but laugh their pants off when the same joke is directed at someone else.

Look at all the folk bollarded who claimed anything but they were in the wrong.

Parking is one of the great modern games. About the only time you can take a chance with stakes that are not too high. You can gamble on leaving your car & wallow in the smug satisfaction of having got away with it when you return. Naturally, people hate being caught out & claim all kind of tripe when they do get a ticket.

Posted by: Biker1 Jan 3 2011, 12:50 PM

Yes I tend to agree with most of what you say there. The parkers were at fault but the Greenies were taking advantage of this.
We seem to live in an age where there is always someone else to blame. Whether it be the weather or, as you say, a bollarding.
People do not seem to take responsibility for their own actions these days.
Perhaps it is a result of the compensation culture that we now live in.

What do you think of those who blame the ice when they have an accident in bad weather?
Should they not be driving in a manner to suit the conditions?

Posted by: Iommi Jan 3 2011, 01:28 PM

I would imagine that that most people who complain about the consequences of their mistake or arrogance, is the cost. Of course people don't like being wrong, we are all guilty of that on here, but I suggest most people don't like or try to do the wrong thing either, but will do so often for expedience. People might realise they are driving in a pedestrian zone, but very few will do so knowing they are likely to write their car of doing so. Likewise, I suspect people don't think it reasonable for the high cost in parking in the wrong place for the wrong amount of time.

The 'Greenies', as with other similar officers, have an appearance of being predatory, rather than regulatory and that is why I think they are disliked by many.

All this rubbish being said, it would have seemed like a good idea to have waved fines for New Years Day for any parked cars on municipal ground, provided they weren't causing an obstruction.

Posted by: Berkshirelad Jan 3 2011, 02:27 PM

One assumes that you mean publicly owned controlled car parks.

Private companies can't fine (and soon won't be able to clamp)

Posted by: On the edge Jan 3 2011, 04:06 PM

...but will still be able to lock gates, sue in civil courts etc.etc. be careful what you wish for!