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Newbury Today Forum _ Random Rants _ Abbott Shmabbott

Posted by: Andy Capp Jun 7 2017, 08:09 PM

True or not, this is an interesting read: https://cookingonabootstrap.com/2017/06/07/we-need-to-talk-about-diane-abbott-now-explicit-content/

Posted by: Simon Kirby Jun 7 2017, 08:12 PM

Yes, read that earlier, it gives some useful perspective doesn't it.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 7 2017, 08:20 PM

QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Jun 7 2017, 09:12 PM) *
Yes, read that earlier, it gives some useful perspective doesn't it.


Personally I think its a crock of sh1t.
Oh and its factually inaccurate.
Diane Abbott is not a "little black girl".
She is a hard nosed 30 year politician who hasn't got where she is by being "nice". Oh and she is a racist and also the worst kind of hypocrite by sending her children to fee paying schools.

And the Daily Mail and Sun talk sh1t as well.

Posted by: newres Jun 7 2017, 08:25 PM

Some of those tweets are diabolical. It may be that the stuff in th press isn't overtly racist, but it's feeding people's hate and many of the hateful tweets are based on her race. There's some loathsome people around.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 7 2017, 08:27 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 7 2017, 09:25 PM) *
Some of those tweets are diabolical. It may be that the stuff in th press isn't overtly racist, but it's feeding people's hate and many of the hateful tweets are based on her race. There's some loathsome people around.

Have you seen some of the stuff May has had? Or does she "deserve" it??? Again not a fan but balance is needed.

Social media in politics is evil..

Posted by: newres Jun 7 2017, 08:28 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 7 2017, 09:20 PM) *
Personally I think its a crock of sh1t.
Oh and its factually inaccurate.
Diane Abbott is not a "little black girl".
She is a hard nosed 30 year politician who hasn't got where she is by being "nice". Oh and she is a racist and also the worst kind of hypocrite by sending her children to fee paying schools.

And the Daily Mail and Sun talk sh1t as well.

She isn't racist. That's rubbish unless you have some evidence. Makes me laugh how everyone says that ex EDL person isn't racist but Diane Abbott is. Give me a break.

Posted by: newres Jun 7 2017, 08:29 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 7 2017, 09:27 PM) *
Have you seen some of the stuff May has had? Or does she "deserve" it??? Again not a fan but balance is needed.

Social media in politics is evil..

Is Theresa May called a monkey or a black Cnut?

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 7 2017, 08:32 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 7 2017, 09:28 PM) *
She isn't racist. That's rubbish unless you have some evidence. Makes me laugh how everyone says that ex EDL person isn't racist but Diane Abbott is. Give me a break.


https://ukipvoices.wordpress.com/2015/04/09/labours-racist-hate-department/

I know it is UKIP but twas a quick google. Could have found something easily on another site but couldn't be bothered.

The point is can you imagine a poster that says I will put white people first??? Can you imagine the outrage????

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 7 2017, 08:36 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 7 2017, 09:29 PM) *
Is Theresa May called a monkey or a black Cnut?


Nope. As she is not black. Just cnut. B1tch. Evil. Hope she gets c@ncer and dies a slow painful death... You have to be very hard nosed to play the politic game. Nasty business.

Posted by: newres Jun 7 2017, 08:39 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 7 2017, 09:32 PM) *
https://ukipvoices.wordpress.com/2015/04/09/labours-racist-hate-department/

I know it is UKIP but twas a quick google. Could have found something easily on another site but couldn't be bothered.

The point is can you imagine a poster that says I will put white people first??? Can you imagine the outrage????

Did you read the article? Funniest thing I've read in weeks. I don't know if the poster is genuine but rather than being anti white it seems more to do with positive discrimination. I don't think that's racist. So perhaps you could find one that actually is evidence of racism.

Posted by: newres Jun 7 2017, 08:40 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 7 2017, 09:36 PM) *
Nope. As she is not black. Just cnut. B1tch. Evil. Hope she gets c@ncer and dies a slow painful death... You have to be very hard nosed to play the politic game. Nasty business.

So there aren't references to her race then? Wasn't the whole point of my post about the racist abuse she suffers?

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 7 2017, 08:43 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 7 2017, 09:39 PM) *
Did you read the article? Funniest thing I've read in weeks. I don't know if the poster is genuine but rather than being anti white it seems more to do with positive discrimination. I don't think that's racist. So perhaps you could find one that actually is evidence of racism.


Positive discrimination. You mean racism? Cos thats what that is. The sort of discrimination where you interview 2 people.. One non white and one white and you get "leaned on" by your HR department to pick the none white one, even if they are not the best candidate. Diversity. Tick...

Posted by: On the edge Jun 7 2017, 08:58 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 7 2017, 09:25 PM) *
Some of those tweets are diabolical. It may be that the stuff in th press isn't overtly racist, but it's feeding people's hate and many of the hateful tweets are based on her race. There's some loathsome people around.


Yes, it's very difficult to disagree with that; particularly as there is a substantial body of evidence to show she's not alone. This stuff is generated by people who have been through our education system and live in an advanced apparently civilised nation. Numbers are far too great to put it down to mental ill health; it's simply vile behaviour, no more, no less and demonstrates that the veneer of civilisation is indeed thin. That we don't or won't take steps to elimate it is indicative of our national decline as was this recent ill natured and spiteful election campaign. Yes, I voted to leave the EU but I'm far from convinced about our future with a population like this.

Posted by: Simon Kirby Jun 7 2017, 09:02 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 7 2017, 09:25 PM) *
Some of those tweets are diabolical. It may be that the stuff in th press isn't overtly racist, but it's feeding people's hate and many of the hateful tweets are based on her race. There's some loathsome people around.

Indeed.

Posted by: On the edge Jun 7 2017, 09:04 PM

Our very confrontational style of press reporting doesn't exactly help matters - see today's Mail!

Posted by: On the edge Jun 7 2017, 09:14 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 7 2017, 09:36 PM) *
Nope. As she is not black. Just cnut. B1tch. Evil. Hope she gets c@ncer and dies a slow painful death... You have to be very hard nosed to play the politic game. Nasty business.


Yes, it is very nasty indeed as you have so amply illustrated.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 7 2017, 09:23 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 7 2017, 10:14 PM) *
Yes, it is very nasty indeed as you have so amply illustrated.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8fV0gFp1Pw&feature=youtu.be


Posted by: Andy Capp Jun 7 2017, 09:49 PM

I think Diane Abbott is demonstrably racist, albeit a softe racist. There's the comments about black mothers, blue-eyed blonde Finnish nurses and the white man divide and rule comment. Hardly shocking, but enough to tell me what I might need to know; however, I believe in credit where it is due. She is gaff prone, but she has had an impressive career and perhaps some of her beliefs come from hard experience.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 7 2017, 09:50 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Jun 7 2017, 10:49 PM) *
I think Diane Abbott is demonstrably racist, albeit a softe racist. There's the comments about black mothers, blue-eyed blonde Finnish nurses and the white man divide and rule comment. Hardly shocking, but enough to tell me what I might need to know; however, I believe in credit where it is due. She is gaff prone, but she has had an impressive career and perhaps some of her beliefs come from hard experience.


Agree. Nothing more to add.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jun 7 2017, 10:23 PM

Sick? Like she was on article 50? Yeah, rite. She'll be dancing round like a demented puppy on acid come Friday. Wonderful what you can get away with once you've slept with the boss! The truth is she got promoted to her own personal level of incompetence and now that's been exposed she's ducking back out of view. She's done a good job representing her constituents, but that's it. This is now international politics, if you can't stand the heat etc. Spinelessness, covered up by her party to get a sympathy vote and to distance themselves from a rapidly expanding disaster area.

Posted by: x2lls Jun 8 2017, 12:04 AM

Regardless of the history of the woman, what she says now is all that matters, and that is nothing convincing.

She will be not be taking part in the election campaign for an indefinite period. What? 1.5 days?
She's more dangerous to us than Putin.

Posted by: x2lls Jun 8 2017, 01:01 AM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 7 2017, 09:28 PM) *
She isn't racist. That's rubbish unless you have some evidence. Makes me laugh how everyone says that ex EDL person isn't racist but Diane Abbott is. Give me a break.



He isn't racist, he is anti muslim extremist. He is anti hate speech by extremist imams invited here. Islam is not a race. Your mind has been poisoned.

Makes me laugh how some read and soak up the rubbish spewed by MSM, and locals for that matter.
How on earth you can attempt to speak for a woman who is (oops, was) potentially responsible for our safety, and refused to answer a simple question is beyond me. How much more butter are you going to put under your shoes?

Posted by: Andy Capp Jun 8 2017, 05:41 AM

It's called being open minded and willing to see both sides before making judgements. Something many on here find very difficult.

Posted by: newres Jun 8 2017, 05:48 AM

QUOTE (x2lls @ Jun 8 2017, 02:01 AM) *
He isn't racist, he is anti muslim extremist. He is anti hate speech by extremist imams invited here. Islam is not a race. Your mind has been poisoned.

Makes me laugh how some read and soak up the rubbish spewed by MSM, and locals for that matter.
How on earth you can attempt to speak for a woman who is (oops, was) potentially responsible for our safety, and refused to answer a simple question is beyond me. How much more butter are you going to put under your shoes?

But one of his campaigns is against Muslim sex offenders. Does he target Halal too? I bet he does. So he's not anti extremist, he's anti-Muslim.

Re: Diane Abbott - she's a liability. I wouldn't want her as home secretary but she'd do better than May. May's answer to terrorism? Take away our human rights. rolleyes.gif

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 8 2017, 05:53 AM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 8 2017, 06:48 AM) *
But one of his campaigns is against Muslim sex offenders. Does he target Halal too? I bet he does. So he's not anti extremist, he's anti-Muslim.

Re: Diane Abbott - she's a liability. I wouldn't want her as home secretary but she'd do better than May. May's answer to terrorism? Take away our human rights. rolleyes.gif


🇬🇧 bill of rights. Thank you. And that includes no rights for jihadis.

Posted by: On the edge Jun 8 2017, 06:14 AM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 7 2017, 10:23 PM) *
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8fV0gFp1Pw&feature=youtu.be


Manners maketh man.

Just because your peers and friends decend to boorish behaviour, unless you are a sheep, there is no reason to follow.

Posted by: newres Jun 8 2017, 06:15 AM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 8 2017, 06:53 AM) *
🇬🇧 bill of rights. Thank you. And that includes no rights for jihadis.

Or we could just stop bombing them.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 8 2017, 06:25 AM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 8 2017, 07:15 AM) *
Or we could just stop bombing them.

Sounds like you actually feel sorry for the jihadists. ohmy.gif

Posted by: x2lls Jun 8 2017, 07:55 AM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 8 2017, 06:48 AM) *
But one of his campaigns is against Muslim sex offenders. Does he target Halal too? I bet he does. So he's not anti extremist, he's anti-Muslim.

Re: Diane Abbott - she's a liability. I wouldn't want her as home secretary but she'd do better than May. May's answer to terrorism? Take away our human rights. rolleyes.gif


You prove my point. YOU brought up halal. A prime example of misinformation. Watch his challenges to reporters , check out the last interview with Andrew Neil.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jun 8 2017, 09:24 AM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 8 2017, 07:15 AM) *
Or we could just stop bombing them.

Is this hook line and sinker? Or simply someone who doesn't understand what this jihad is all about? It's this level of sleepwalking into history that's going to get us all killed.

Posted by: newres Jun 8 2017, 10:38 AM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jun 8 2017, 10:24 AM) *
Is this hook line and sinker? Or simply someone who doesn't understand what this jihad is all about? It's this level of sleepwalking into history that's going to get us all killed.

Do you not think you might be getting a bit carried away?

Posted by: On the edge Jun 8 2017, 10:45 AM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 8 2017, 11:38 AM) *
Do you not think you might be getting a bit carried away?


Oh don't worry Newres, he's just left East Ham, so not far to go!

Posted by: x2lls Jun 8 2017, 01:25 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 8 2017, 11:38 AM) *
Do you not think you might be getting a bit carried away?



The government has already sleep walked(Is that the correct term?), which is why too many known scumbags have achieved their intentions due to inaction.

Posted by: newres Jun 8 2017, 03:07 PM

QUOTE (x2lls @ Jun 8 2017, 02:25 PM) *
The government has already sleep walked(Is that the correct term?), which is why too many known scumbags have achieved their intentions due to inaction.

That's it then. we're all going to die. Je Suis - no point booking in booking the Toff Roader to get that dodgy radio fixed is there?

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jun 8 2017, 03:18 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 8 2017, 04:07 PM) *
That's it then. we're all going to die. Je Suis - no point booking in booking the Toff Roader to get that dodgy radio fixed is there?

No need, solved some of my problems, I kept it tuned in to the BBC but all it was picking up was this annoying whiney noise. Turn out it was a Jeremy Corbyn speech. So that's all good now. 🖕

Posted by: Simon Kirby Jun 8 2017, 07:13 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 8 2017, 07:15 AM) *
Or we could just stop bombing them.

Quite.

Posted by: On the edge Jun 8 2017, 07:55 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jun 8 2017, 04:18 PM) *
No need, solved some of my problems, I kept it tuned in to the BBC but all it was picking up was this annoying whiney noise. Turn out it was a Jeremy Corbyn speech. So that's all good now. 🖕


Know what you mean, then if you want to hear a Tory, all they have left is that May woman and frankly I thought I'd heard the last of Matron when I left school. Bit of diversity would make a nice change.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jun 8 2017, 10:12 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 8 2017, 08:55 PM) *
Know what you mean, then if you want to hear a Tory, all they have left is that May woman and frankly I thought I'd heard the last of Matron when I left school. Bit of diversity would make a nice change.

Oooh matron, stick it out! 😊

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jun 14 2017, 07:09 AM

I see she's miraculously better, JC probably laid his healing hands on her. He'll be getting the blind to see and the lame to walk next. Labour, cheap tricks are us.

Posted by: SirWilliam Jun 14 2017, 08:42 AM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Jun 7 2017, 09:09 PM) *
True or not, this is an interesting read: https://cookingonabootstrap.com/2017/06/07/we-need-to-talk-about-diane-abbott-now-explicit-content/


What has the her colour to do with anything ? The first black this or that is irrelevant to her success . I applaud anyone who attends Oxbridge whatever their creed / colour / sex etc. but this obsession with still putting people in boxes seems counter-productive to an inclusive society .
If the archeologists are to be believed we can all trace our ancestry back to Africa so that alone should be sufficient to show we are all the same and should be thus referred .

Posted by: On the edge Jun 14 2017, 09:33 AM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jun 14 2017, 08:09 AM) *
I see she's miraculously better, JC probably laid his healing hands on her. He'll be getting the blind to see and the lame to walk next. Labour, cheap tricks are us.


Nah, she's just following precedents in political history. Eden's 'illness' at Suez, Major's 'toothache' when Mrs Thatcher resigned. You wanted Labour to emulate the Conservative way; well, so they have! tongue.gif

Posted by: blackdog Jun 14 2017, 09:41 AM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jun 14 2017, 08:09 AM) *
I see she's miraculously better, JC probably laid his healing hands on her. He'll be getting the blind to see and the lame to walk next. Labour, cheap tricks are us.

Hardly a miracle to sort out blood sugar levels these days.

Posted by: Andy Capp Jun 14 2017, 11:08 AM

I have hunch she has confused her numbers again. Usually type 2 have different symptoms than type 1.

Posted by: Turin Machine Jun 18 2017, 02:10 PM

3 2 1 and she's back in the room! 🤔

Posted by: SirWilliam Jun 19 2017, 08:11 AM

You can't keep a good woman down ..........But damned good fun trying tongue.gif

Posted by: Berkshirelad Jun 19 2017, 01:25 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Jun 14 2017, 12:08 PM) *
I have hunch she has confused her numbers again. Usually type 2 have different symptoms than type 1.



I agree - I have Type 2; you can't get a hypo with type 2.

Posted by: gel Jun 19 2017, 01:40 PM

Perhaps she has Type 3 just for minority groups.

Posted by: Turin Machine Jun 19 2017, 01:42 PM

QUOTE (gel @ Jun 19 2017, 02:40 PM) *
Perhaps she has Type 3 just for minority groups.

Diabetes hasn't stopped Theresa May, perhaps she has a special Tory type? 🤔

Posted by: gel Jun 19 2017, 02:40 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Jun 19 2017, 02:42 PM) *
Diabetes hasn't stopped Theresa May, perhaps she has a special Tory type? 🤔
She's never used as an excuse to prevent her doing her job, to my knowledge.

Posted by: On the edge Jun 19 2017, 03:23 PM

Perhaps we need an MP 'person profile', those responsible keep getting wrong 'uns. Here is a starter for 10.

Must

1. agree wholeheartedly with all the party aims, objectives, manifesto pledges.
2. be able to calculate to six decimal places on the spot
3. not have made any even vaguely non populist decisions in the past
4. have absolutely no personal faith or convictions
5. offer resignation whenever implicated unpopular decisions or campaigns
6. become ill or unwell
7. humbly renounce any personal convictions if called to do so
8. not have taken proscribed drugs (subject to reversal shortly)
9. not have deemed unusual sex life





Posted by: Turin Machine Jun 19 2017, 03:35 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 19 2017, 04:23 PM) *
Perhaps we need an MP 'person profile', those responsible keep getting wrong 'uns. Here is a starter for 10.

Must

1. agree wholeheartedly with all the party aims, objectives, manifesto pledges.
2. be able to calculate to six decimal places on the spot
3. not have made any even vaguely non populist decisions in the past
4. have absolutely no personal faith or convictions
5. offer resignation whenever implicated unpopular decisions or campaigns
6. become ill or unwell
7. humbly renounce any personal convictions if called to do so
8. not have taken proscribed drugs (subject to reversal shortly)
9. not have deemed unusual sex life

That'll do. Sort of Emmanuel Macron.

Posted by: blackdog Jun 19 2017, 06:14 PM

Abbot may well be spouting the truth that she lost control of her blood sugar owing the the pressure of the campaign. That said, it's not eactly making her a good choice for a high pressure cabinet post!

Posted by: Turin Machine Jun 19 2017, 06:22 PM

QUOTE (blackdog @ Jun 19 2017, 07:14 PM) *
Abbot may well be spouting the truth that she lost control of her blood sugar owing the the pressure of the campaign. That said, it's not eactly making her a good choice for a high pressure cabinet post!

She said she hadn't been eating enough. O Rly..

Posted by: je suis Charlie Nov 4 2017, 04:07 PM

The words 'foot' and 'mouth' spring to mind, Oh Dianne, if you don't know what you're talking about its sometimes better to stay off the media.

"Speaking in a video posted on her official social media accounts, the Labour MP for Hackney North and Stoke Newington said: "I believe in votes at 16. If you're old enough to fight for your country, you are old enough to vote."

Except of course she's wrong, again. Couldn't make it up.

Posted by: SirWilliam Nov 4 2017, 04:23 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Nov 4 2017, 04:07 PM) *
The words 'foot' and 'mouth' spring to mind, Oh Dianne, if you don't know what you're talking about its sometimes better to stay off the media.

"Speaking in a video posted on her official social media accounts, the Labour MP for Hackney North and Stoke Newington said: "I believe in votes at 16. If you're old enough to fight for your country, you are old enough to vote."

Except of course she's wrong, again. Couldn't make it up.


I am a little concerned JSC that you are spending time trawling through social media to track down snippets of despair as pontificated by the " Honourable "Member for Hackney North.
She is quickly becoming to the Corbin election push what Arthur Scargill was to the Blair effort . Campbell silenced him pretty effectively and I foresee a similar fate being visited on Ms Abbott .
Meanwhile we have to cringe every time she opens her mouth.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Nov 4 2017, 04:43 PM

QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Nov 4 2017, 04:23 PM) *
I am a little concerned JSC that you are spending time trawling through social media to track down snippets of despair as pontificated by the " Honourable "Member for Hackney North.
She is quickly becoming to the Corbin election push what Arthur Scargill was to the Blair effort . Campbell silenced him pretty effectively and I foresee a similar fate being visited on Ms Abbott .
Meanwhile we have to cringe every time she opens her mouth.


At least she has not been approached by some sleazy conservative mp..... 😂

Posted by: je suis Charlie Nov 4 2017, 05:28 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Nov 4 2017, 04:43 PM) *
At least she has not been approached by some sleazy conservative mp..... 😂

Gahh! The sheer thought of that has just had me reaching for a bucket.

Posted by: Turin Machine Nov 4 2017, 06:21 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Nov 4 2017, 04:07 PM) *
The words 'foot' and 'mouth' spring to mind, Oh Dianne, if you don't know what you're talking about its sometimes better to stay off the media.

"Speaking in a video posted on her official social media accounts, the Labour MP for Hackney North and Stoke Newington said: "I believe in votes at 16. If you're old enough to fight for your country, you are old enough to vote."

Except of course she's wrong, again. Couldn't make it up.

Numbers never were her strongest skill.

Posted by: SirWilliam Nov 4 2017, 06:55 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Nov 4 2017, 04:43 PM) *
At least she has not been approached by some sleazy conservative mp..... 😂


How do you know ? She may well be a femme fatale in the murky corridors of Westminster . After all she has to be good at something wink.gif

Posted by: Andy Capp Nov 4 2017, 10:11 PM

It demonstrates one of the snags with our democracy: popularity doesn’t guarantee quality.

Posted by: newres Nov 5 2017, 02:52 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Nov 4 2017, 05:28 PM) *
Gahh! The sheer thought of that has just had me reaching for a bucket.

I’ll bet you are drop dead gorgeous.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Nov 5 2017, 03:09 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Nov 5 2017, 02:52 PM) *
I’ll bet you are drop dead gorgeous.

Just like one of Pavlov's dogs, just can't resist can you?

Posted by: SirWilliam Nov 5 2017, 04:21 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Nov 5 2017, 02:52 PM) *
I’ll bet you are drop dead gorgeous.


If "Charlie " is female you may well be deemed to be trying to chat her up in an unacceptable manner , should his name be derived from Charles then , well we live in enlightened times .
May I suggest JSC that you are actually an asexual hermaphrodite who just has differing views from newres . cool.gif

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Nov 5 2017, 04:22 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Nov 5 2017, 02:52 PM) *
I’ll bet you are drop dead gorgeous.

Im hetrosexual but if it was a choice between je suis and Abbott then I'm afraid je suis you had better get the vaseline out.😂




Posted by: SirWilliam Nov 5 2017, 05:05 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Nov 5 2017, 04:22 PM) *
Im hetrosexual but if it was a choice between je suis and Abbott then I'm afraid je suis you had better get the vaseline out.😂


biggrin.gif

Posted by: newres Nov 5 2017, 05:31 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Nov 5 2017, 03:09 PM) *
Just like one of Pavlov's dogs, just can't resist can you?

I just think it's sexist and juvenile to refer to a woman's looks when they are a total irrelevance. Especially when nine times out of ten the man making the reference is a FUB.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Nov 5 2017, 05:35 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Nov 5 2017, 05:31 PM) *
I just think it's sexist and juvenile to refer to a woman's looks when they are a total irrelevance. Especially when nine times out of ten the man making the reference is a FUB.

My middle name happens to be Adonis, so that's Mr Adonis, Titan of industry to you, little man.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Nov 5 2017, 05:36 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Nov 5 2017, 04:22 PM) *
Im hetrosexual but if it was a choice between je suis and Abbott then I'm afraid je suis you had better get the vaseline out.😂

Wot? No flowers or chocolates first? dry.gif

Posted by: newres Nov 5 2017, 05:44 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Nov 5 2017, 05:35 PM) *
My middle name happens to be Adonis, so that's Mr Adonis, Titan of industry to you, little man.

More Like Mr Adonner - fat and greasy. laugh.gif

Posted by: je suis Charlie Nov 5 2017, 06:02 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Nov 5 2017, 05:44 PM) *
More Like Mr Adonner - fat and greasy. laugh.gif

Whilst you are the epitome of meringue, lots of fluff, very little substance.

Posted by: Turin Machine Nov 5 2017, 06:18 PM

Boys! Play nice now!

Posted by: SirWilliam Nov 5 2017, 06:20 PM

In the ongoing bun fight between TDH / je suis Charlie and newres the self appointed referee has declared a draw and urge both sides to take a break from hostilities .
Come on boys and girls kiss and make up . rolleyes.gif

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Nov 5 2017, 07:10 PM

QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Nov 5 2017, 06:20 PM) *
In the ongoing bun fight between TDH / je suis Charlie and newres the self appointed referee has declared a draw and urge both sides to take a break from hostilities .
Come on boys and girls kiss and make up . rolleyes.gif


Bun fight? Just a bit of fun old boy. Gotta liven this forum up some how. 😂 newres has a right to air his views. Even if he is barking mad. I predicted Trump and Brexit whilst the likes of newres can't understand it. I do think Britain is ripe for a new political party. I just wished I could persuade one of my black colleagues to answer this countries call. He is the nicest fella I know with a keen interest in politics. Problem is he would have to take a pay cut, even if he were PM.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Nov 5 2017, 07:18 PM

Wouldn't get out of bed for that salary.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Nov 5 2017, 07:38 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Nov 5 2017, 07:18 PM) *
Wouldn't get out of bed for that salary.

Thats half the problem. You should get a FTSE100 CEO salary. Its a bl00dy difficult and much more important job. The PM should get a million a year. Minimum. Business dictates that sort of salary to get the best people so why not the PM?

Posted by: SirWilliam Nov 5 2017, 07:49 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Nov 5 2017, 07:38 PM) *
Thats half the problem. You should get a FTSE100 CEO salary. Its a bl00dy difficult and much more important job. The PM should get a million a year. Minimum. Business dictates that sort of salary to get the best people so why not the PM?


Because simply she/he is not the best person for the job . Ask any successful business person if they fancy running the Country and they will politely enquire if you have been certified .I don't know how we get away this continual merry-go-round of party politics .
Any ideas forumites ?

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Nov 5 2017, 08:09 PM

QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Nov 5 2017, 07:49 PM) *
Because simply she/he is not the best person for the job . Ask any successful business person if they fancy running the Country and they will politely enquire if you have been certified .I don't know how we get away this continual merry-go-round of party politics .
Any ideas forumites ?


Quite easy.

1. Abolish the House of Lords.
2. Reduce the number of MPs to 250.
3. Pay them a lot more.
4. Abolish all political parties.
5. Create new parties. One left. One Centre left
One Centre right. One Right.
6. Get PR up and running.
7. Get rid of the speaker as an MP.
8. The House of Westmister should be a museum. Get a proper office for the MPs.

Just a few ideas...


Posted by: newres Nov 5 2017, 09:21 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Nov 5 2017, 08:09 PM) *
Quite easy.

1. Abolish the House of Lords.
2. Reduce the number of MPs to 250.
3. Pay them a lot more.
4. Abolish all political parties.
5. Create new parties. One left. One Centre left
One Centre right. One Right.
6. Get PR up and running.
7. Get rid of the speaker as an MP.
8. The House of Westmister should be a museum. Get a proper office for the MPs.

Just a few ideas...

I agree with much of that. PR and state funding of political parties would solve a lot of the problems. Not sure pay would make much difference although it should be more.

Posted by: Mr Brown Nov 5 2017, 09:47 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Nov 5 2017, 08:09 PM) *
Quite easy.

1. Abolish the House of Lords.
2. Reduce the number of MPs to 250.
3. Pay them a lot more.
4. Abolish all political parties.
5. Create new parties. One left. One Centre left
One Centre right. One Right.
6. Get PR up and running.
7. Get rid of the speaker as an MP.
8. The House of Westmister should be a museum. Get a proper office for the MPs.

Just a few ideas...


Arguably, what's here demonstrates it wouldn't be easy!

They've been trying to abolish the Lords since 1910 and if it was easy, would have done so by now.

MP numbers are being reduced, but our political system itself probably inhibits much more of a reduction.

They are paid reasonably well. The real issue is the massive imbalance with executive salaries which were driven up by the bankers ramp. It's these causing the issue as the Governments own think tanks agree.

Not much point in abolishing parties, just to come up with four more of the same type. Vis Left; Labour, centre left; LibDem, centre right; conservative, right; UKIP.

PR is up and running, but again, 'PR' or spin is probably one of the biggest issues. Making PR or party information keep the same rules as commercial advertising might help.

Not sure having the speaker as an employee would make much difference.

Moving out of the building won't save the refurbishment costs, if you want to keep it as a museum. Might as well keep using it, it's more than adequate in reality.

I'd argue the problem is national one. We've replaced words like integrity, probity, and service, with just one - greed. Be that greed for money or personal gratification



Posted by: newres Nov 6 2017, 07:21 AM

QUOTE (Mr Brown @ Nov 5 2017, 09:47 PM) *
Arguably, what's here demonstrates it wouldn't be easy!

They've been trying to abolish the Lords since 1910 and if it was easy, would have done so by now.

MP numbers are being reduced, but our political system itself probably inhibits much more of a reduction.

They are paid reasonably well. The real issue is the massive imbalance with executive salaries which were driven up by the bankers ramp. It's these causing the issue as the Governments own think tanks agree.

Not much point in abolishing parties, just to come up with four more of the same type. Vis Left; Labour, centre left; LibDem, centre right; conservative, right; UKIP.

PR is up and running, but again, 'PR' or spin is probably one of the biggest issues. Making PR or party information keep the same rules as commercial advertising might help.

Not sure having the speaker as an employee would make much difference.

Moving out of the building won't save the refurbishment costs, if you want to keep it as a museum. Might as well keep using it, it's more than adequate in reality.

I'd argue the problem is national one. We've replaced words like integrity, probity, and service, with just one - greed. Be that greed for money or personal gratification

PR = Proportional representation, not public relations. smile.gif

Posted by: Mr Brown Nov 6 2017, 09:49 AM

QUOTE (newres @ Nov 6 2017, 07:21 AM) *
PR = Proportional representation, not public relations. smile.gif


The problem with sound bite shorthand illustrated at a stroke.

It's a bit ironic really, but it was EU 'party list' type proportional representation that did for me. We ended up with a bunch of unknown chancers who had little connect with their constituencies, still less with their electors. As the EU demonstrates, it makes for poor government.

Posted by: SirWilliam Nov 6 2017, 01:10 PM

PR is the obvious route but how do you get a diverse cross section of opinion to agree on anything ? When the Greeks developed democracy they abandoned it almost as quickly because it took 3 months to decide who was going to make the tea .
What we need are those who stand for office to approach their position with a view to the good of the Country and not the minority pressure groups that see fit to court favour . This would negate the need for an upper house at a stroke .

Posted by: Mr Brown Nov 6 2017, 03:56 PM

QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Nov 6 2017, 01:10 PM) *
PR is the obvious route but how do you get a diverse cross section of opinion to agree on anything ? When the Greeks developed democracy they abandoned it almost as quickly because it took 3 months to decide who was going to make the tea .
What we need are those who stand for office to approach their position with a view to the good of the Country and not the minority pressure groups that see fit to court favour . This would negate the need for an upper house at a stroke .


The trouble is, of course, with PR you inevitably end up with rule by minority pressure groups. A rainbow coalitions in power for decades.

Posted by: newres Nov 6 2017, 05:20 PM

QUOTE (Mr Brown @ Nov 6 2017, 03:56 PM) *
The trouble is, of course, with PR you inevitably end up with rule by minority pressure groups.

Got any examples of minority pressure groups ruling countries?

Posted by: Andy Capp Nov 6 2017, 06:20 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Nov 6 2017, 05:20 PM) *
Got any examples of minority pressure groups ruling countries?

UK.

Posted by: Mr Brown Nov 6 2017, 07:33 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Nov 6 2017, 05:20 PM) *
Got any examples of minority pressure groups ruling countries?


Italy.

Posted by: newres Nov 6 2017, 08:33 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Nov 6 2017, 06:20 PM) *
UK.

Exactly the example I thought of. And no PR,

Posted by: Mr Brown Nov 6 2017, 10:18 PM

The UK certainly isn't ruled by minority pressure groups, even though it might seem so on occasions. Of course pressure groups try and often succeed in influencing party policy; but party still rules. As we saw in the previous coalition, the LibDems had quite limited effect on government policy. In this government, the Unionists are actually a breed of Tory.

Posted by: newres Nov 7 2017, 06:29 AM

QUOTE (Mr Brown @ Nov 6 2017, 10:18 PM) *
The UK certainly isn't ruled by minority pressure groups, even though it might seem so on occasions. Of course pressure groups try and often succeed in influencing party policy; but party still rules. As we saw in the previous coalition, the LibDems had quite limited effect on government policy. In this government, the Unionists are actually a breed of Tory.

UKIP. wink.gif

We are exiting Europe because of a pressure group stealing votes from the tories.
.

Posted by: Mr Brown Nov 7 2017, 07:09 AM

QUOTE (newres @ Nov 7 2017, 06:29 AM) *
UKIP. wink.gif

We are exiting Europe because of a pressure group stealing votes from the tories.
.


UKIP, was really no more than an irritant. The Conservatives took us out of Europe because they'd never settled the fundamental question properly themselves. What the leaders of the party espouse is not always in line with the majority of their supporters. Conservative discontent about Europe hadn't dropped since their leadership took us in.

Posted by: Andy Capp Nov 7 2017, 08:00 AM

QUOTE (Mr Brown @ Nov 7 2017, 07:09 AM) *
UKIP, was really no more than an irritant. The Conservatives took us out of Europe because they'd never settled the fundamental question properly themselves. What the leaders of the party espouse is not always in line with the majority of their supporters. Conservative discontent about Europe hadn't dropped since their leadership took us in.

Religious groups, the food industry, the media, bankers and other wealthy entities are or have pressure groups which determine how we live our lives.

Posted by: SirWilliam Nov 7 2017, 02:40 PM

The list is endless; maybe they should form a new political party cool.gif

Posted by: newres Nov 7 2017, 03:09 PM

QUOTE (Mr Brown @ Nov 7 2017, 07:09 AM) *
UKIP, was really no more than an irritant. The Conservatives took us out of Europe because they'd never settled the fundamental question properly themselves. What the leaders of the party espouse is not always in line with the majority of their supporters. Conservative discontent about Europe hadn't dropped since their leadership took us in.

UKIP is the reason we had the referendum. No UKIP, no referendum. The Tories stuck it in the manifesto to shore up their vote which was deserting to UKIP.

Posted by: SirWilliam Nov 7 2017, 03:49 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Nov 7 2017, 03:09 PM) *
UKIP is the reason we had the referendum. No UKIP, no referendum. The Tories stuck it in the manifesto to shore up their vote which was deserting to UKIP.


You are quite correct . Had Cameron not panicked over the thought of millions of disillusioned Tories changing their allegiance to Farage and his "bovver boys " , ( like that was ever going to happen ) , the referendum would never have been called and everyone in the Country would still be friends with their neighbours .Of course his second and even bigger mistake was not gauging the amount of anti European sentiment and loathing for a federalist overlord the populace at large held.
Of course UKIP / Johnson / Gove et al claim the credit but in all honesty if they had sodded off to Mars for the duration the outcome would have been the same , all we have to do now is convince a lot of other people that , rightly or wrongly , it is a fait accompli .

Posted by: je suis Charlie Nov 7 2017, 04:10 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Nov 7 2017, 03:09 PM) *
UKIP is the reason we had the referendum. No UKIP, no referendum. The Tories stuck it in the manifesto to shore up their vote which was deserting to UKIP.

Yay!! tongue.gif

Posted by: Mr Brown Nov 7 2017, 05:10 PM

QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Nov 7 2017, 03:49 PM) *
You are quite correct . Had Cameron not panicked over the thought of millions of disillusioned Tories changing their allegiance to Farage and his "bovver boys " , ( like that was ever going to happen ) , the referendum would never have been called and everyone in the Country would still be friends with their neighbours .Of course his second and even bigger mistake was not gauging the amount of anti European sentiment and loathing for a federalist overlord the populace at large held.
Of course UKIP / Johnson / Gove et al claim the credit but in all honesty if they had sodded off to Mars for the duration the outcome would have been the same , all we have to do now is convince a lot of other people that , rightly or wrongly , it is a fait accompli .


Not a bad synopsys. The Tories have never been committed to Europe, as we saw very plainly in both Mrs Thatcher and Mr Major's time. Like it or not, the Country is traditionally Tory, so arguably, the anti Tory MPs have always been attuned to popular opinion. I'd certainly agree that with or without UKIP, the referendum result would have been the same. The Tories saw the Europe issue as a constant running sore in the party and that's what Cameron was trying to cover. Arguably putting party before country; another Tory trait!

If we are looking to apportion blame for the referendum result, I'd argue that the EU executive and Euro MEPs were the real culprits - 40 years of failing to get a positive message across.

Posted by: Turin Machine Nov 7 2017, 05:31 PM

This is something the French do very well, everywhere you go there are large renewal schemes, village and town squares, new bridges etc all accompanied with a massive great sign saying whats been done, how much it cost and how many millions came from Europe. The French are left in no doubt as to what they are getting. Good PR job.

Posted by: newres Nov 7 2017, 05:33 PM

QUOTE (Mr Brown @ Nov 7 2017, 05:10 PM) *
Not a bad synopsys. The Tories have never been committed to Europe, as we saw very plainly in both Mrs Thatcher and Mr Major's time. Like it or not, the Country is traditionally Tory, so arguably, the anti Tory MPs have always been attuned to popular opinion. I'd certainly agree that with or without UKIP, the referendum result would have been the same. The Tories saw the Europe issue as a constant running sore in the party and that's what Cameron was trying to cover. Arguably putting party before country; another Tory trait!

If we are looking to apportion blame for the referendum result, I'd argue that the EU executive and Euro MEPs were the real culprits - 40 years of failing to get a positive message across.

I 100% disagree with almost all of that. Certainly the EU isn’t perfect. Neither is our own parliament/democracy. Look what’s happening now with the “sex” scandals. Ludicrous. Look at the unelected Lords. Look at lobbying scandals and so on. I think people understood that. What UKIP did was to shift the blame for everything to the EU including refugees from Syria which if anything are a product of US and UK interference in the Middle East.

Thatcher and Major weren’t anti EU. What about Maastricht? I’m not sure what the exact split is on Brexit but it wouldn’t surprise me if the majority of Tiry MPs weren’t remainers. I’m quite prepared to be wrong on that. You are probably right though that a majority of party members voted for Brexit, but given the age demographic and the nationalistic slant of the tories that’s no surprise.

Posted by: Turin Machine Nov 7 2017, 05:53 PM

From the independent;

"Mr Cameron and the political class in general underestimated the groundswell of public resentment caused by the influx of European migrants to the country since accession of Eastern European countries in the early 2000s.

To begin with Polish plumbers, builders, waitresses and bar staff were generally welcomed. But the financial crash of 2008 and the fall in living standards it resulted in stoked resentments which politicians from all three major parties were too slow to recognise and respond to."

So, yes, while it is true that the catalyst for this was ukip and it's growing influence on voters feelings and concerns all they did was to merely ride along on the growing groundswell.
And let's not forget a significant amount of 'leave' vote came from Northern working class areas, traditional labour territories so the conservative electorate is not entirely to blame.
The major 'stay' vote was in the London region which is high in liberals, fortunately it wasn't enough. Maybe if more millennials and hipsters had got off their ***** to vote it might have turned out differently. Who knows.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Nov 7 2017, 07:07 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Nov 7 2017, 05:53 PM) *
From the independent;

"Mr Cameron and the political class in general underestimated the groundswell of public resentment caused by the influx of European migrants to the country since accession of Eastern European countries in the early 2000s.

To begin with Polish plumbers, builders, waitresses and bar staff were generally welcomed. But the financial crash of 2008 and the fall in living standards it resulted in stoked resentments which politicians from all three major parties were too slow to recognise and respond to."

So, yes, while it is true that the catalyst for this was ukip and it's growing influence on voters feelings and concerns all they did was to merely ride along on the growing groundswell.
And let's not forget a significant amount of 'leave' vote came from Northern working class areas, traditional labour territories so the conservative electorate is not entirely to blame.
The major 'stay' vote was in the London region which is high in liberals, fortunately it wasn't enough. Maybe if more millennials and hipsters had got off their ***** to vote it might have turned out differently. Who knows.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-41893598

😂😂

Posted by: On the edge Nov 7 2017, 10:21 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Nov 7 2017, 06:33 PM) *
I 100% disagree with almost all of that. Certainly the EU isn’t perfect. Neither is our own parliament/democracy. Look what’s happening now with the “sex” scandals. Ludicrous. Look at the unelected Lords. Look at lobbying scandals and so on. I think people understood that. What UKIP did was to shift the blame for everything to the EU including refugees from Syria which if anything are a product of US and UK interference in the Middle East.

Thatcher and Major weren’t anti EU. What about Maastricht? I’m not sure what the exact split is on Brexit but it wouldn’t surprise me if the majority of Tiry MPs weren’t remainers. I’m quite prepared to be wrong on that. You are probably right though that a majority of party members voted for Brexit, but given the age demographic and the nationalistic slant of the tories that’s no surprise.


Put it this way, the British public had been told for decades that any unpopular action was down to European directives and macinations. As for corruption, yes it happens at Westminiser but not on the industrial scale of Europe. Incredibly, for many years they haven't managed even the elementary book keeping needed to generate an auditablecset of accounts. At least we still can, and we've clamped down on our MPs over inflated expenses. Mrs Thatcher's resignation was all about her wanting to curb European expansion and Maastricht was Mr Major refusing to go along with new European directives. In both cases, hardly enthusiasm. I think more and more can now see that it's the World market that counts and Europe is therefore a trade barrier. We should be concentrating on the future now so we don't get caught by the swell as SS Europe starts to sink.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Nov 7 2017, 10:45 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Nov 7 2017, 10:21 PM) *
Put it this way, the British public had been told for decades that any unpopular action was down to European directives and macinations. As for corruption, yes it happens at Westminiser but not on the industrial scale of Europe. Incredibly, for many years they haven't managed even the elementary book keeping needed to generate an auditablecset of accounts. At least we still can, and we've clamped down on our MPs over inflated expenses. Mrs Thatcher's resignation was all about her wanting to curb European expansion and Maastricht was Mr Major refusing to go along with new European directives. In both cases, hardly enthusiasm. I think more and more can now see that it's the World market that counts and Europe is therefore a trade barrier. We should be concentrating on the future now so we don't get caught by the swell as SS Europe starts to sink.


You must be really thick. Stupid. Dense. Racist. And worst of all... White. Thought I'd beat Newres to it.😂

Posted by: je suis Charlie Nov 7 2017, 11:09 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Nov 7 2017, 10:45 PM) *
You must be really thick. Stupid. Dense. Racist. And worst of all... White. Thought I'd beat Newres to it.😂

yes but, newres is 'Special'! ph34r.gif

Posted by: Turin Machine Nov 7 2017, 11:52 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Nov 7 2017, 10:21 PM) *
Put it this way, the British public had been told for decades that any unpopular action was down to European directives and macinations. As for corruption, yes it happens at Westminiser but not on the industrial scale of Europe. Incredibly, for many years they haven't managed even the elementary book keeping needed to generate an auditablecset of accounts. At least we still can, and we've clamped down on our MPs over inflated expenses. Mrs Thatcher's resignation was all about her wanting to curb European expansion and Maastricht was Mr Major refusing to go along with new European directives. In both cases, hardly enthusiasm. I think more and more can now see that it's the World market that counts and Europe is therefore a trade barrier. We should be concentrating on the future now so we don't get caught by the swell as SS Europe starts to sink.

And of course you only need look towards Italy with its staggering levels of governmental corruption, greed and criminality. Proportional representation in action if you will.

Posted by: newres Nov 8 2017, 06:25 AM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Nov 7 2017, 10:21 PM) *
Put it this way, the British public had been told for decades that any unpopular action was down to European directives and macinations. As for corruption, yes it happens at Westminiser but not on the industrial scale of Europe. Incredibly, for many years they haven't managed even the elementary book keeping needed to generate an auditablecset of accounts. At least we still can, and we've clamped down on our MPs over inflated expenses. Mrs Thatcher's resignation was all about her wanting to curb European expansion and Maastricht was Mr Major refusing to go along with new European directives. In both cases, hardly enthusiasm. I think more and more can now see that it's the World market that counts and Europe is therefore a trade barrier. We should be concentrating on the future now so we don't get caught by the swell as SS Europe starts to sink.

Yet Major voted remain and has campaigned for a second referendum.

Posted by: On the edge Nov 8 2017, 07:13 AM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Nov 7 2017, 11:45 PM) *
You must be really thick. Stupid. Dense. Racist. And worst of all... White. Thought I'd beat Newres to it.😂

In a nutshell TDH! laugh.gif

Posted by: Mr Brown Nov 8 2017, 07:37 AM

QUOTE (newres @ Nov 8 2017, 06:25 AM) *
Yet Major voted remain and has campaigned for a second referendum.


Yes, he did. A weather vane politician as always. Nonetheless, his signing of them famous treaty and his leaving the money arrangements show he was no great fan of Europe.

Posted by: Andy Capp Nov 8 2017, 09:08 AM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Nov 6 2017, 06:20 PM) *
UK.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/nov/07/tax-haven-lobby-superb-penetration-uk-government-paradise-papers

Posted by: Andy Capp Nov 8 2017, 09:18 AM

The better educated tended to vote Remain! Lol

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/30/facts-support-mps-claim-that-better-educated-voted-remain-pollster

Posted by: SirWilliam Nov 8 2017, 09:26 AM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41908774

Having trouble removing the vision of a BBC hack pursuing the Heir Apparent along the Mall over his off shore financial dealings laugh.gif
Like I said earlier ,whilst the papers are full of this non news the real problems facing May and her party are on the back burner .
Sacrifice a limb to save the body .

Posted by: Turin Machine Nov 8 2017, 10:32 AM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Nov 8 2017, 09:18 AM) *
The better educated tended to vote Remain! Lol

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/30/facts-support-mps-claim-that-better-educated-voted-remain-pollster

Opinion not 'science'.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Nov 8 2017, 11:58 AM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Nov 8 2017, 09:18 AM) *
The better educated tended to vote Remain! Lol

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/30/facts-support-mps-claim-that-better-educated-voted-remain-pollster

Ahh the Guardian, beacon of light for Libtards everywhere. Anyway, if it's where true AC must've voted to leave, at least twice.

Posted by: On the edge Nov 8 2017, 01:21 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Nov 8 2017, 09:18 AM) *
The better educated tended to vote Remain! Lol

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/30/facts-support-mps-claim-that-better-educated-voted-remain-pollster


I love these ungrounded statistics which some take as gospel truths. Normally takes a couple of questions about the source data and down goes the balloon.

The article itself throws doubt straightaway. 2 out of 3 graduates voted to stay. Now, as nearly everyone who can write their name can graduate these days and as 'informed thinking' from as far back as the early 1920s considered only 20% of the population had higher grade intelligence, without any differentiation, it could be extrapolated that the one third of graduates who voted to go were actually that higher intelligence percentile.

To illustrate, this is a good one, you can check the validity for yourselves. BMWs are a car of choice for poor people. Just count the number in Lidl car park. Lidl with such low prices is clearly aimed at poor people.

Anyway, I'm more than happy to be thick; don't think I'd have managed three years at Salford University on media or golf course studies!

biggrin.gif

Posted by: blackdog Nov 8 2017, 03:08 PM

QUOTE (Mr Brown @ Nov 6 2017, 10:18 PM) *
The UK certainly isn't ruled by minority pressure groups, even though it might seem so on occasions. Of course pressure groups try and often succeed in influencing party policy; but party still rules. As we saw in the previous coalition, the LibDems had quite limited effect on government policy. In this government, the Unionists are actually a breed of Tory.


Political parties are minority pressure groups.

Posted by: Andy Capp Nov 8 2017, 05:57 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Nov 8 2017, 10:32 AM) *
Opinion not 'science'.

Please see my next post; meanwhile, he actually said: “When you look at the people who voted remain, most of them were the better educated people in our country. Nearly all the university towns voted remain.”

Being better educated doesn't mean if you were not better educated, that you were thick; it is just some people getting all tizzy and twisting things.

Posted by: Andy Capp Nov 8 2017, 06:00 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Nov 8 2017, 11:58 AM) *
Ahh the Guardian, beacon of light for Libtards everywhere. Anyway, if it's where true AC must've voted to leave, at least twice.

It is not an opinion piece, but a matter of record and backed up by stats. I voted leave, but despite a near-grammer school education I'm thick, so the story might be true; fellow thicko! LOL


"But Peter Kellner, the former president of the YouGov polling firm, said Sheerman was factually correct.

“I would not use Barry Sheerman’s choice of words but the facts are broadly on his side,” Kellner told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme on Monday.

“Overall, people who left school at 15 or 16 voted around two to one for Brexit. [For] people who got up to A-level or equivalent qualification [it was] 50:50. Graduates voted two to one to remain in the EU.

“So yes, there is quite a clear educational gradient in the way people voted in last year’s referendum.”

Kellner pointed out that a similar education divide was seen in June’s general election."

Posted by: Andy Capp Nov 8 2017, 06:05 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Nov 8 2017, 01:21 PM) *
I love these ungrounded statistics which some take as gospel truths. Normally takes a couple of questions about the source data and down goes the balloon.

The article itself throws doubt straightaway. 2 out of 3 graduates voted to stay. Now, as nearly everyone who can write their name can graduate these days and as 'informed thinking' from as far back as the early 1920s considered only 20% of the population had higher grade intelligence, without any differentiation, it could be extrapolated that the one third of graduates who voted to go were actually that higher intelligence percentile.

To illustrate, this is a good one, you can check the validity for yourselves. BMWs are a car of choice for poor people. Just count the number in Lidl car park. Lidl with such low prices is clearly aimed at poor people.

Anyway, I'm more than happy to be thick; don't think I'd have managed three years at Salford University on media or golf course studies!

biggrin.gif

Getting a good education doesn't guarantee intelligence. It is why investing in children with rich parents is a fallacy.

"You can take a man to the pub, but he might not want to get sloshed".

Posted by: je suis Charlie Nov 8 2017, 06:14 PM

There's lies, damned lies, and then there's statistics. If someone tried you could 'prove' statistically that the sun revolves around the Earth. I particularly loved this gem;

"He said: “When you look at the people who voted remain, most of them were the better educated people in our country. Nearly all the university towns voted remain.”

Anybody else see the problem with that nugget of pseudo science? Like having a university in your town won't raise everybody's IQ, and University means students, they would all be too busy watching tellytubbys or getting wasted to turn out and vote. And a two year course in media studies won't make you another Einstein either.

I do love a good laugh, so carry on, please.

Posted by: On the edge Nov 8 2017, 07:19 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Nov 8 2017, 06:05 PM) *
Getting a good education doesn't guarantee intelligence. It is why investing in children with rich parents is a fallacy.

"You can take a man to the pub, but he might not want to get sloshed".


Couldn't agree more. My issue is with those who extrapolate sample data elements and then make ungrounded assumptions and then try to convince everyone that their assumptions are scientific fact. Often very funny; but then I'm of the generation who saw Professor Stanley Unwin!

Posted by: je suis Charlie Nov 8 2017, 07:25 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Nov 8 2017, 07:19 PM) *
Couldn't agree more. My issue is with those who extrapolate sample data elements and then make ungrounded assumptions and then try to convince everyone that their assumptions are scientific fact. Often very funny; but then I'm of the generation who saw Professor Stanley Unwin!

laugh.gif

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Nov 8 2017, 11:03 PM


Im not even sure where this is coming from? Is a University educated vote now worth more than a 6th former who left with 4 A levels but chose to persue a career and not build up a lifetime of debt? Who is more stupid? The lad earning 50k a year at 30 with no debt or the lad with 80k of debt and no career at 25 having left uni with a 2 2 in media studies and no prospects? Some of the most clever people I have met have been completely useless in a working environment. All talk and no work. Some other far less educated and clever people have gone an awful lot further through work ethic. I know if I interview 2 people.. and one has had one or two jobs and risen through a company by promotion and the other is more qualified but has had numerous jobs every few months... which I'd choose.

Posted by: newres Nov 9 2017, 12:58 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Nov 8 2017, 11:03 PM) *
Im not even sure where this is coming from? Is a University educated vote now worth more than a 6th former who left with 4 A levels but chose to persue a career and not build up a lifetime of debt? Who is more stupid? The lad earning 50k a year at 30 with no debt or the lad with 80k of debt and no career at 25 having left uni with a 2 2 in media studies and no prospects? Some of the most clever people I have met have been completely useless in a working environment. All talk and no work. Some other far less educated and clever people have gone an awful lot further through work ethic. I know if I interview 2 people.. and one has had one or two jobs and risen through a company by promotion and the other is more qualified but has had numerous jobs every few months... which I'd choose.

Didn't the reports talk about innate intelligence rather than educated? According to the science you are innately less intelligent than me. Can't argue with science.

Posted by: On the edge Nov 9 2017, 03:38 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Nov 9 2017, 12:58 PM) *
Didn't the reports talk about innate intelligence rather than educated? According to the science you are innately less intelligent than me. Can't argue with science.


Never mind TDH, some Itallian bloke also got into big trouble arguing against the science of his day, called Galileo or some such, became quite well known apparently.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Nov 9 2017, 04:10 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Nov 9 2017, 03:38 PM) *
Never mind TDH, some Itallian bloke also got into big trouble arguing against the science of his day, called Galileo or some such, became quite well known apparently.

BUT IT'S SCIENCE!! Ahh, wait, as you were biggrin.gif

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Nov 9 2017, 05:35 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Nov 9 2017, 12:58 PM) *
Didn't the reports talk about innate intelligence rather than educated? According to the science you are innately less intelligent than me. Can't argue with science.


Glad I'm not intelligent then. I'd rather be thick than you.😂

Posted by: newres Nov 9 2017, 06:24 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Nov 9 2017, 05:35 PM) *
Glad I'm not intelligent then. I'd rather be thick than you.😂

Your wish has been granted already. laugh.gif

Posted by: SirWilliam Nov 9 2017, 07:57 PM

Is not belief truth until science proves otherwise and science fact until proven wrong ?
Intelligence is subjective , an Oxford don may well appear highly qualified yet he will drive a car whilst under the influence of alcohol and an under achieving school leaver from Moss Side will go on to pen a best seller .
The supposed intelligencer tend to lean to the political left as an appeasement to their conscience and so curry favour with their peers as opposed to doing so on cognitive grounds .

Posted by: newres Nov 9 2017, 08:03 PM

QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Nov 9 2017, 07:57 PM) *
Is not belief truth until science proves otherwise and science fact until proven wrong ?
Intelligence is subjective , an Oxford don may well appear highly qualified yet he will drive a car whilst under the influence of alcohol and an under achieving school leaver from Moss Side will go on to pen a best seller .
The supposed intelligencer tend to lean to the political left as an appeasement to their conscience and so curry favour with their peers as opposed to doing so on cognitive grounds .

IQ measurement is objective. Or as close as we get to objective measurement.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Nov 9 2017, 08:41 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Nov 9 2017, 06:24 PM) *
Your wish has been granted already. laugh.gif


So thick MS engineers are putting my ideas to the product board and then being put on the roadmap.😝

What have you achieved this year? Sold a dodgy motor?😂

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Nov 9 2017, 08:43 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Nov 9 2017, 08:03 PM) *
IQ measurement is objective. Or as close as we get to objective measurement.

I bet you are one of those saddos that does a MENSA test and prints out a certificate to say they have an above average IQ. When a trained chimp would.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Nov 9 2017, 09:41 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Nov 9 2017, 08:43 PM) *
I bet you are one of those saddos that does a MENSA test and prints out a certificate to say they have the IQ of a trained chimp.

There, fixxored that for you my friend.

Posted by: Andy Capp Nov 9 2017, 10:00 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Nov 8 2017, 11:03 PM) *
I know if I interview 2 people.. and one has had one or two jobs and risen through a company by promotion and the other is more qualified but has had numerous jobs every few months... which I'd choose.

It depends if you are recruiting for a policeman or a decorator! 😋

Posted by: SirWilliam Nov 9 2017, 10:06 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Nov 9 2017, 10:00 PM) *

It depends if you are recruiting for a policeman or a decorator! 😋


Is there a difference ? Both look down on you because you can't do the job yourself and had to call them in .

Posted by: je suis Charlie Nov 10 2017, 12:08 AM

QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Nov 9 2017, 10:06 PM) *
Is there a difference ? Both look down on you because you can't do the job yourself and had to call them in .

Only one of them will fit you up!

Posted by: Andy Capp Nov 10 2017, 09:06 AM

QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Nov 9 2017, 10:06 PM) *
Is there a difference ? Both look down on you because you can't do the job yourself and had to call them in .

It was a cheeky remark indicating that some professions will have people who move about in a different ways.

Posted by: The Hatter Nov 10 2017, 09:25 AM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Nov 9 2017, 10:00 PM) *

It depends if you are recruiting for a policeman or a decorator! ��


The skills and aptitude have to fit the job, so quite right, you wouldn't employ an Oxford graduate to cut code.

Posted by: James_Trinder Nov 10 2017, 09:34 AM

QUOTE (The Hatter @ Nov 10 2017, 09:25 AM) *
The skills and aptitude have to fit the job, so quite right, you wouldn't employ an Oxford graduate to cut code.


If I understand 'cutting code' correctly then that is basically what I do now in my job and I am an Oxford postgraduate.

Posted by: SirWilliam Nov 10 2017, 12:00 PM

QUOTE (James_Trinder @ Nov 10 2017, 09:34 AM) *
If I understand 'cutting code' correctly then that is basically what I do now in my job and I am an Oxford postgraduate.

When I first read Hatter's comment I concluded , ( incorrectly ) , that "cutting code " was a misprint and spent the next 10 minutes wondering what he meant . Having googled it I stand enlightened but it does highlight how out of touch with modernity some of us "oldies" are . I do say "some" as a few of my contemporaries can turn the pc on unaided , and most important , turn it off again . tongue.gif

Posted by: je suis Charlie Nov 10 2017, 12:13 PM

QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Nov 10 2017, 12:00 PM) *
When I first read Hatter's comment I concluded , ( incorrectly ) , that "cutting code " was a misprint and spent the next 10 minutes wondering what he meant . Having googled it I stand enlightened but it does highlight how out of touch with modernity some of us "oldies" are . I do say "some" as a few of my contemporaries can turn the pc on unaided , and most important , turn it off again . tongue.gif

I suspect newres needs help turning a light switch on and off.

Posted by: SirWilliam Nov 10 2017, 12:49 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Nov 10 2017, 12:13 PM) *
I suspect newres needs help turning a light switch on and off.


What's a light switch ? laugh.gif

Posted by: SirWilliam Nov 11 2017, 09:29 AM

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwily4uumLbXAhXDiRoKHZrFBKsQFgg6MAM&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mirror.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fpolitics%2Fblundering-boris-johnson-infuriates-spanish-11503136&usg=AOvVaw0iRAd5KIu5BTua0d6fUlwZ

What Diane Abbott can do Borris can do better . Who on earth thought it would be a good idea to give this buffoon the job of Foreign Secretary ? Apart from the fact that most Spanish citizens would be more than happy to see the back of this barbaric practice , to be told how to conduct their affairs by this clown is down right insulting .
Then we have the matter of Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe ...........What next ?????

Posted by: je suis Charlie Nov 11 2017, 09:53 AM

The man is a buffoon. A scruffy, bumbling buffoon.

Posted by: Andy Capp Nov 11 2017, 10:01 AM

QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Nov 11 2017, 09:29 AM) *
Who on earth thought it would be a good idea to give this buffoon the job of Foreign Secretary ?

An even bigger one who is his boss.

Posted by: SirWilliam Nov 11 2017, 11:38 AM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Nov 11 2017, 10:01 AM) *
An even bigger one who is his boss.


No argument there old chap .

Posted by: On the edge Nov 14 2017, 08:10 AM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Nov 11 2017, 10:01 AM) *
An even bigger one who is his boss.


Ever wondered if it isn't deliberate? The Tories are the oldest political party in the World and they didn't get there by accident.

Posted by: SirWilliam Nov 14 2017, 09:46 AM

It's hilarious comedy time folks . You can put aside your political differences and unite in the knowledge that we are a little brighter than some .

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/41973119/why-do-people-still-think-the-earth-is-flat

This has to be the funniest thing I have seen this year . Nothing like putting things in perspective , and this is nothing like it . laugh.gif

Posted by: SirWilliam Nov 14 2017, 02:50 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Nov 11 2017, 10:01 AM) *
An even bigger one who is his boss.


It would appear that Mrs May is not quite so obtuse as some see . She outwardly criticises the Russians and then "arranges " for her foreign secretary to visit the Country . What price a BA strike around the time he is due to return . cool.gif

Posted by: On the edge Nov 14 2017, 04:37 PM

QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Nov 14 2017, 02:50 PM) *
It would appear that Mrs May is not quite so obtuse as some see . She outwardly criticises the Russians and then "arranges " for her foreign secretary to visit the Country . What price a BA strike around the time he is due to return . cool.gif


Boris will be back, have no fear! Clever politicians, particularly those with ambition, learn to read the currents and ride the tides. Would you have wanted to take over from Cameron, who anyway didn't really need to go. The dear lady gets her 15 minutes this way.

Like a kipper, stiched up; that's us!

Posted by: SirWilliam Nov 14 2017, 04:54 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Nov 14 2017, 04:37 PM) *
Boris will be back, have no fear! Clever politicians, particularly those with ambition, learn to read the currents and ride the tides. Would you have wanted to take over from Cameron, who anyway didn't really need to go. The dear lady gets her 15 minutes this way.

Like a kipper, stiched up; that's us!


They do say that a Country get's the government it deserves . QED me thinks .

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