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Posted by: HJD Oct 21 2015, 09:13 AM

Can anyone explain why the Forum Link has disappeared from its normal place on the blue header !!

Posted by: blackdog Oct 21 2015, 09:44 AM

NWN are probably a bit embarrassed by the way the forum is dying.

Posted by: Biker1 Oct 21 2015, 09:50 AM

Maybe they are in the process of re-naming it the "Andy Capp Forum"!

Posted by: je suis Charlie Oct 21 2015, 10:03 AM

Nope, its going to be renamed. In future it will be the 'Bitter old men bitching about the council' page.

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 21 2015, 10:44 AM

Probably a favour to mates in the councils.

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 21 2015, 10:54 AM

Heck hath no fury like an anti-local newspaper man scorned!

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 21 2015, 10:55 AM

Facebook already cover that, but to a wider age group!

Posted by: motormad Oct 21 2015, 11:31 AM

It's been moved to the very bottom.

I agree about it being renamed the Andy Capp Forum.

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 21 2015, 12:12 PM

Well spotted.

Posted by: Biker1 Oct 21 2015, 06:26 PM

Sorry Andy but I think (and this is probably just me) that you are one of the main culprits of driving many of the less vociferous (and some of the more) away from this forum.
Obviously you and others my disagree...........who knows?

Posted by: je suis Charlie Oct 21 2015, 09:16 PM

No, It's not just you.

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 21 2015, 09:20 PM

No it's not just you; I'm sure some find me irritating and I do put some off, but I cannot account for the timid, gullible, narrow-minded and humourless members of the parish.

It is a forum. It is harmless as I am harmless. I don't know why you (and others) get their knickers in such a twist about it.

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 21 2015, 09:22 PM

Although I note I haven't completely managed to drive people like you and je suis Charlie away. Not that I am actually setting out to do so of course. I just have an issue with myopic opinions!

However, I doubt I am the main reason for the forum going quiet; many forums have fallen flat with the uptake of Facebook et al.

Posted by: Cognosco Oct 21 2015, 09:24 PM

Nope can't agree. Everyone is free to have an opinion, even if they seem to be the only one with that opinion, if you think you are correct stick with it until proven wrong then have the courage to admit it.

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 21 2015, 09:27 PM

That is the spirit!

You should see what it is like on football supporter forums ... even I'm scared of going on there!

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 21 2015, 09:38 PM

... anyway, after all that squabbling, the Forum link seems to be back where it started!

Posted by: spartacus Oct 21 2015, 10:57 PM

I've never been entirely convinced that the NWN 'powers that be' have ever even been aware that there IS a forum on their site. The paper often gets slagged for spelling mistakes, content inaccuracies and generally is described as the 'local rag' or worse. I'm surprised they don't get rid of it or at least have Admin step in and send contributors to the Naughty Step from time to time.

Current thread in the random rants section is a prime example - "More dross in the NWN"

I even had to self-govern after an episode where I deliberately broke the swear filter and had a session liberally using the C Bomb (not 'Christmas' either) to see if I could get expelled but Admin didn't step in.... ....so I'm still here....


How right you are....With only two sections, one of which is Newbury News, there's little to discuss and anything that happens in this sleepy little town can always be done better by the armchair Generals with their endless pots of imaginary money.


You're joking. Hardly bosom buddies.

Posted by: spartacus Oct 22 2015, 07:25 AM

I'd agree with that. It's only a bloody online forum... and quite a gentle little one at that compared to some. No 'internet hardmen' on here offering you outside for a bare knuckle Ronnie Pickering! Seldom gets heated, although opinions may differ on which way the discussion should be going when the council bashing gets a bit tiresome.

There's only a few of us on here anyway. It's hardly the most active board. As others have said there's the local Facebook page available which is more active - but that seems to be inhabited by the brain dead who have trouble putting coherent thought on screen.

Posted by: Biker1 Oct 22 2015, 07:46 AM

Fair enough I thought I may be in a minority.
I just think that on a supposedly "gentle" forum such as this that making personal remarks and denoting people as "trolls" when their views differ to your own has the effect of reducing the contributors, especially newcomers, to the small number that there are now.
Unlike that which makes a good, productive meeting where everyone can have their say without bias?

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 22 2015, 09:51 AM

I think whether you are or not is irreverent.


You've made several assumptions and misrepresented the truth. Making personal remarks are inevitable when the topic is heated and you are no different, although you might quickly forget your offence when you post as such.

I also reject the notion that I call people trolls just because their opinions differ; that is untrue. I warn people of troll like behaviour when it merits it, and in the case of 'Petra', that was as obvious as concrete. 'Troll' is another word for 'wind-up merchant' and 'Petra' demonstrably was. Petra was arrogant, rude and officious right from the off. And now election season is over, so has 'Petra's' contributions to this forum. I also struggle to believe 'Petra' doesn't post any more because I accused 'Petra' of being a troll.

Some might say so am I arrogant and rude, but, if I am, it is almost certainly in response to being goaded or in retaliation to rudeness. I don't draw 'first blood'; I much prefer to have a sensible debate. I never come on here with the sole intention of winding people up.



There is almost no such thing as without bias. We are all biased, and that's where the 'trouble' starts.

It is just a forum. Post and be damned. And as it happens, I enjoy reading your posts, even if I often disagree.

Posted by: GMR Oct 22 2015, 04:17 PM

"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." The problem isn't Andy Capp on here (or anybody else), but not enough people standing up and fighting for what they say or believe (or even defending their arguments). That probably tells you more about Newbury than it does about any single member.

As for this forum "dying": it has more to do with swings and roundabouts. It goes in spells. It all depends if somebody puts up something interesting.

Another point; when new members join and people don't like what they say then they are attacked and hounded out. I am thinking of Petra here. She should have been challenged or ignored, but instead she was attacked because people didn't like what she said. No wonder people don't last long on here and that the only person left standing is Andy Capp.

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 22 2015, 04:34 PM

With Petra I think it was more about how it was said than what was said. Petra's posts were not without some merit but the ill-researched opinions did not always support the arrogant delivery.

Posted by: Biker1 Oct 22 2015, 04:38 PM

Precisely.

Posted by: GMR Oct 22 2015, 05:09 PM

Ill researched by who's account? I didn't have problems with the way she said it, nor did some others; and she was critical towards me as well. I think it was more to do with you not like somebody challenging you.

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 22 2015, 06:16 PM

Mine. I would draw Petra up on things, but Petra would fail to back up the assertion.


Being critical is not the issue. Writing paragraphs on imagined onanistic habits of certain forum members was uncalled for, as was Petra's treatment of Greenmeanie, amongst others.


If only a challenge came. A lot of what Petra spouted was repetitive and uninformative. Petra was quite obviously a troll. Which was a shame as beneath the eccentric delivery there were some valid arguments in there.

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 22 2015, 06:19 PM

It's called 'confirmation bias' and doesn't necessarily confirm the truth.

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 22 2015, 06:23 PM

So to clarify things for Biker1 and GMR. Nobody gets hounded out; we have no power to do that. People with weak arguments and in Petra's case: disingenuous intentions, get found out. That's all.

Posted by: GMR Oct 22 2015, 06:42 PM

People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 22 2015, 06:56 PM

Eh!

Posted by: Simon Kirby Oct 22 2015, 08:32 PM

... should pull down the blinds before removing their trousers. -- Spike Milligan

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 22 2015, 08:55 PM

Got to love Spike!

Posted by: Biker1 Oct 23 2015, 04:59 AM

I disagree, but "hey ho"!

Posted by: On the edge Oct 23 2015, 06:48 AM

Metaphorically punched in the face and kneed in the groin is a bit different to being hounded out Biker!!

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 23 2015, 09:24 AM

I know you disagree, but I supplemented that phrase with further opinion.

Calling and alerting people to someone trolling a few times is not hounding (even though that person behaved in a way that was bound to cause a reaction). People can be put on ignore and people can choose to ignore comment in any case, but people need to realise that if they post an opinion it is vulnerable to scrutiny.

As far as I can see, people like you and others resent being pulled up on the error of their opinion, OR simply their opinion being scrutinised. Like I said, in the vast majority of times I might have upset you with my view, it will almost certainly had been in response to something provocative you posted first.





...it could be of course that people are simply bowing to my superior intellect.


Just in case people thought otherwise, I wasn't being serious.

Posted by: Biker1 Oct 23 2015, 03:20 PM

No, that's what we're (should be) here for.
It's when it gets personal that I have the issues.
Anyway, it's academic now as, although I've debated this one because it's relevant, I'm outta here!

Posted by: GMR Oct 23 2015, 03:39 PM

But who decides who is a "Troll"? Once you shout Troll then your disciples jump in to support you. I disagree that she was a troll, but she did get under your skin and anybody that gets under your skin gets called a troll (so that you don't have to answer their question). I've never called anybody a troll (and if I had then I was wrong); it is a word that is too easily used nowadays. You either agree with somebody, disagree or leave them alone, or in your case, attack the best say you can and that is by calling those you don't like a "troll". I think you have called most regulars on here a troll at one time or another. Whatever way you look at it we need people like Petra to add to the debate. Because if we don’t have people like Petra then all we’ve got is you (and it is because of this that you get comments like Biker’s).

Posted by: HJD Oct 23 2015, 03:41 PM

Do you still run a forum GMR !!

Posted by: GMR Oct 23 2015, 04:07 PM

Yes I do, thanks. And it is very successful. Did you want some advice?

Posted by: motormad Oct 23 2015, 06:43 PM

Define "very" ?

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 23 2015, 07:53 PM

If people run away because I said they were trolling, then they will have had nothing worth while to read. It's pathetic. It is hardly as if I was accusing anyone of being paedophile!

Petra was a lot of fun, but was also full of shoite

Biker1 on the other hand is simply being a girls blouse.

Posted by: Biker1 Oct 23 2015, 08:15 PM

There you go again!
You just can't stop yourself can you?

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 23 2015, 08:54 PM

...and that is so offensive is it? Anyway, I'm still in tears after you being nasty to me in the playground earlier about calling the forum after me ...

Any way, the way I see it, if people run away after being accused of trolling, then that is likely because ... they are a troll ... or a girls blouse ...

Posted by: Simon Kirby Oct 23 2015, 09:40 PM

It does all rather seem to have run its course here. A site for serious debate was always going to be a minority interest. I've never hidden my agenda, and it's a pretty good bet that if I'd never complained about my treatment by Newbury Town Council I would probably have my allotment still - actually the Town Council say as much; "While you hold and publicly express those views, we do not believe that a working relationship with you is possible." As passionate as I am about my allotment I find it utterly intolerable that the Town Council should be able to bully someone so vindictively without any accountability, and the Newbury Today Forum has been a useful platform to shout about the Town Council's abusive regime. Of course state tyranny succeeds because no one wants to hear about that stuff, and I really don't have anything fresh to say that I haven't already said a hundred times before.

I've had some enjoyable arguments here. I've always rather enjoyed User's style and I miss his contribution - he invariably attacks the weakness in an argument and then skewers his opponent when they bluster. I'd have liked if he'd have ventured some opinions of his own once in a while though. Things were more interesting when Richard Garvie was posting, but whatever merit there may have been in his argument it was constantly undermined by weakness in the detail.

I liked that we did the Newts, and I'm pleased to have met there GMR, On the Edge, motormad, James Trinder, Strafin, RUP, Nothing Much, x2lls, and Jeff - did I miss anyone? And cheerio if you're leaving Biker, you never did make it along to one.

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 23 2015, 10:11 PM

There's too many nasty people in pubs.

I too miss the 'old days', but this forum does give an opportunity to 'let off some steam' but others seem to take offence too readily. I do to, but after a few minutes, I'm back to normal. I'd have liked to have gone to a NEWTS, but I kind of think that was when things started to turn downhill on here too.

I suspect that some of the 'council apologists' (want for a better phrase) soon saw and acknowledged my old adage: “Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.”

Posted by: Biker1 Oct 24 2015, 05:45 AM

Not particularly a remark intended to deride you AC, more a comment on how the number of effective contributors seems to be dwindling and that your presence seems to dominate. probably because of that.
Is there a way of encouraging back those lost contributors and new ones?
Probably not.

Posted by: On the edge Oct 24 2015, 05:48 AM

All very sad. When all said and done, going for the person rather than the argument isn't right - even when done virtually. What now; who knows?

Posted by: motormad Oct 24 2015, 06:26 PM

Wait what? What have I missed..

Posted by: Gazzadp Oct 24 2015, 10:03 PM

Even I have to agree with the above.

Posted by: GMR Oct 25 2015, 07:46 PM

Exactly.

Posted by: GMR Oct 25 2015, 07:48 PM

Many people on it.

Posted by: GMR Oct 25 2015, 07:56 PM

I can't speak for others, but who said they run away? They might have better things to do in their lives. Then again, you could be right and they did run away.






That might be next on your list, who knows






She was a lot of fun until she got under your skin and because of that you attacked her. The trouble is this forum needs more people who challenge us (whether we agree with them or not). If you think somebody is full of ***** then ignore them and stop calling them trolls. I engaged her, so did others, without calling her names. Now she has gone and we are left with you; maybe that was your plan. Total domination and then world control.

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 26 2015, 12:43 PM

You imply it with the notion that people have stopped posting because of me.


I didn't attack any one. This is a bleedin' forum, not a battle field; talk about hyperble. Anyway, who are you to tell me what to do? As it happens, Petra didn't get under my skin. Petra just refused to back up the claims made or indulge in meaningful dialogue. To that end it became clear to me what Petra was up to (an election stooge). And you agreed with me until you decided to put on your sanctimonious coat and have a go at me.


I called her out for being what Petra was doing: trolling. And would do again if I feel it is pertinent, or barred from the forum.

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 26 2015, 12:44 PM

'Exactly' what?

Posted by: Petra Oct 26 2015, 01:37 PM

Mr Capp,

You protest too much. I suggest you stop the insults as it puts off a lot of good people. If you check you will see that I only came out strong against you, and a few others, when the abuse started flying. I am not the sort of person to hold back when under attack. And I am not a Troll. Just an individual that has an opinion and who wishes to be heard, on occasions, without being badgered or insulted by the living-in Trolls that inhabit this forum and who think this forum is the preserve of the few. I presume that you work of Newbury Weekly News Mr Capp and therefore believe that your troll attacks give you the right to challenge and abuse those that you think overstep the mark on your forum. If that is the way you wish to treat this forum, then enclose it off and only allow you, and your many identities to be the only ones that are allowed to inhabit your minds kingdom. Then you will only have to patrol yourself. But carry on regardless Mr Capp as you are a constant amusement to the many.

All the best, Petra.

PS your name is well suited. No doubt, not much thought went into it, just a mirror observation and everything fell into place.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Oct 26 2015, 02:16 PM

He may not fully understand your ripost, possibly "above his pay grade"!

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 26 2015, 02:28 PM

I'm not protesting, it is the other girls' blouses that seem to think being a troll is aligned with Satan. You came out strong to anyone that didn't show the council in a shining light, or exposed your clumsy arguments and eccentric insults. Meanwhile, your presumptions are also wrong so you may like to know I have no power to do as you suggest.

I'm not sure how you all can reconcile my view of you being a troll with words like 'attacks' and 'abuse' ('challenge' is OK in my view). This is a forum where we have equal status; I am no more able to attack or abuse you than anyone else, I just recognise you as a wind-up merchant who's level of maturity is no higher than those people you complain about.

PS - I wouldn't believe everything GMR feeds you (spot the deliberate wind-up here)

Posted by: HeatherW Oct 26 2015, 05:01 PM

I wonder if forum members wonder why not more women or even new members are joining? It is more about one man and his dog, the guardian angel of forum rights.

If there is any feeding on here then it is Trolls feeding themselves in the pursuit of climatic fixation. A pity, as message boards, if used right, could be a good thing for democratic and Newbury debate. But when on man puts himself above the parapet and drivels below him you just get a sea of saliva.

Posted by: GMR Oct 26 2015, 05:40 PM

That is a difficult question to answer, however, I have just read Petra's and Heather's post. You do the maths.



I suppose it is all semantics really. What is one man's meat is another man's poison, as my dad used to say.



See my previous paragraph.



I am not telling you anything, I am just making an observation. To be honest I quite enjoy your fruitions; i.e. banter with those that seem to enjoy pulling your tail.

Petra may be clear to you, others obviously think differently; so maybe your judgement needs re-tweaking. Do you ever go to church and make the odd confessions?

As for "sanctimonious": no, but I do enjoy people like yourself and Petra on this forum. It is the only time it seems to liven up.



Of course you will; I have no doubt you enjoy all the fuss that surrounds you. It probably is the only time you can come out of the closet, put your fangs in and start doing the Monster Mash.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeZftK2kO6U

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 26 2015, 06:08 PM

Gender is something I never consider as I believe it is irrelevant on here. The good thing about a forum is that it is one persons thoughts and wit compared to another persons. All other forms of communication are irrelevant.

I think the main reason people will not post here is because the topics are of no interest and those people have nothing to otherwise share. I'm sure some people would avoid because of me or others, but from my point of view, I tend to treat people how they treat me.

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 26 2015, 06:13 PM

No. I'm sure people are more anti-me, than anything else and my view of Petra has yet to be refuted by any reasonable argument. And even if I'm mistaken: so what? People can put me on ignore if they wish, or just simply ignore me, they can do that too ... if they wanted.

Posted by: GMR Oct 26 2015, 06:20 PM

I wouldn't put you on ignore. You brighten up a dull day. If you didn't exist somebody would have to invent you

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 26 2015, 06:24 PM

I'm not asking you to, but others seem upset by some rather flippant language.

And if I have been out of order, I have had the decency to apologise too.

Posted by: On the edge Oct 26 2015, 06:45 PM

What's wrong with straightforward and if necessary pungent debate? Is there really any need to use invective or personal slights? Even on a forum I can't see the point of doing that.

Posted by: HeatherW Oct 26 2015, 06:52 PM

Here! here! It is about time somebody talked sense and saw what the actual problem with this forum is. Too much attacks, and too few proper debates on this forum. No wonder good people have been driven away.

Posted by: HeatherW Oct 26 2015, 06:53 PM

I think the reason is, is that a few dominate and the others can't get sensible debate.

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 26 2015, 07:07 PM

How can anyone dominate on a flat forum?

The most common occerance is when peoples' views are challenged. People get uppity, then either sulk or get verbal,

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 26 2015, 07:14 PM

I quite agree...

Posted by: GMR Oct 26 2015, 07:57 PM

Is it flat? I thought it would all depend on which way up the screen is or from what angle you view it from.

Posted by: Petra Oct 26 2015, 08:19 PM

Well, Mr Capp, you know how to put the cat amongst the pigeons. Your forum, your prerogative, but I would suggest that you take heed of what On the Edge, Biker and Ms Heather has said. Intelligent life needs to dominate over the flatpack rumbles that too so often happen on your forum. Please allow the Newburian’s intelligent classes to put themselves up above the noise of despair, please.

Also rest assured that you or nobody will ever frighten me away. Time doesn’t always permit me the luxury to banter with you. Where you do nothing all day, other than patrolling your forum, I, on the other hand, work in a high pressurised job that needs my almost complete attention. I say ‘almost’ as even I need relaxation time, so occasionally I put up my feet, get on my computer, eat my dinner, and see if anything tickles my fancy enough for me to participate.

Yours, Petra

Posted by: Spider Oct 26 2015, 08:25 PM

I am not on here a lot, because of my driving job, but I am impressed that people like Edge, GMR, Heather, Biker and even Petra have come on here to sock it to Andy Capp. This forum needs to be taken back, but then if Mr Capp does own this forum then it looks like it has already been taken back and the lunatic has really taken over the asylum. So the Petra's and Heather's of the world will never win. To be honest, if Mr Capp believes that they are trolls then why hasn't he deleted them? Or is his amusement those he criticizes. I am confused. Maybe somebody can help me out here?

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 26 2015, 08:57 PM

One little reason is that I have nothing to do with this site, other than I regularly post. I am not an admin, nor am I a mod. As for Petra begin a troll, that is self evident.

As for 'winning', usually that will come down to the power of the argument, unless one prefers to pad their posts with vitriol, which results in what we have now: a virtual "who want's to be in my gang" play-ground spat!

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 26 2015, 09:07 PM

Great, so we can now get away from the notion that I drove you away because I have called you out for trolling. Thanks for the confirmation.

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 26 2015, 09:35 PM

A flat hierarchy.

Posted by: GMR Oct 26 2015, 09:37 PM

That is brilliant!

Posted by: GMR Oct 26 2015, 09:39 PM

I don't think she said that you ever drove her away, unless I missed something.

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 26 2015, 09:40 PM

The paradox is that we have a bunch of posters who rarely post, but have made a special day of if by spending most of the day throwing rotten fruit at me and complaining about my posting and the lack of adult debate! I'm sure had I not said anything, all we would have was tumble weed for a discussion. Indeed, the only other topic getting regular comments is a thread I started.

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 26 2015, 09:40 PM

No but you and others have.

Posted by: Cognosco Oct 26 2015, 09:45 PM

All's well Andy Petra is back she has taken time from her high powered position to post again......keep up the good work and if they don't like being taken to task........

Posted by: GMR Oct 26 2015, 09:53 PM

Don't you just love this forum Andy? What would life be like without it, eh? Not worth thinking about.

Posted by: GMR Oct 26 2015, 09:56 PM

At least those others have kept you occupied and contented. Pay tribute and thank the Lord you are bating back and not in jail, instead.

Posted by: spartacus Oct 26 2015, 11:29 PM

I don't see what the big fuss is about, nor why AC is being seen as the big bad bully of the forum. I can only assume some people must be reading a heck of a lot more into his postings than I have in a deliberate attempt to be offended

Posted by: On the edge Oct 27 2015, 06:50 AM

Not a lorry driver is he?

Posted by: Cognosco Oct 27 2015, 07:30 AM

Hear hear! If posters are offended with what Andy has posted then perhaps they don't get out into the real world very often?

Posted by: wabbit Oct 27 2015, 11:27 AM

Hoorah! Couldn't have said better myself...

As a long-standing (but infrequently posting) member, I heartily endorse HeatherW's views. Ever the optimist, I return to browse this forum from time to time, hoping that the macho 'boys own' culture will have been diluted by some new members. But no... plus ca change and I can only liken this forum to a fusty old pub where old codgers chew the fat and argue endlessly amongst themselves until a 'tiff' ensues. If it were a pub, I'd quietly leave...which is exactly what I have done.

Frankly, I'm amazed that the NWN allows this forum to continue at all, especially with a new, more dynamic editor. It is such a poor reflection of Newbury and not one I even recognise. Where is any representation by any female reader/resident? Oh yes, they've been driven away by aggressive and sometimes misogynistic forum members keen to keep this a male dominated arena!

Maybe the NWN could think about ditching the forum in its present incarnation and giving the people of Newbury an informative, helpful, intelligent platform on which to discuss the good, bad and indifferent of Newbury life?

A fine example of this is the 'Reading Forum' - granted, not hosted by any media organisation - but a very inclusive and interesting site where you can find out almost everything about Reading. Unlike this forum, the moderators seem to encourage supportive and inclusive discussion - such a breath of fresh air after the fusty old pub codger one here!

Right, I have raised my head above the parapet - I'm not singling anyone out in particular for criticism (I haven't got the time!) - all I will say is that I wish there were more gently rambling souls like 'nothing much' posting here.

Posted by: Biker1 Oct 27 2015, 11:58 AM

Speaking for myself a couple of points

1. I was not and have never been "offended" by comments from AC or anyone else. I was trying to point out that I thought that personal remarks and forum domination by some were some of the main reasons why few post or join this forum.

2. I get into the "real world" all too often I'm afraid.

Posted by: Turin Machine Oct 27 2015, 12:08 PM

I agree, the forum used to be a nicer place when there were more ladies posting, any one remember pink fluffy clouds? Rose wine lover? Penelope? All gone now, and, I suspect discouraged by the incessant misogyny. As for public image? Well have a look at most community based open forums and they really are much of a muchness. This one doesn't really stand out in any particular.

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 27 2015, 12:17 PM

Like I said previously, I find it amusing that people complain of puerile abuse, yet are quick to indulge in it themselves. Over the last day or so, it is clear which sex has the chip on the should and are quickest to throw insults.

All this talk of misogyny, people post are they are. There is no hatred of women on her; however, I do see clear evidence of misandry.

In an equal society, being male or female should be irrelevant on a form.

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 27 2015, 12:26 PM

Any way up, you are offended; there is no shame in that, but by comparison, this far from an abusive forum. Too me this is about people who complain but are not prepared to put the work in themselves. How many people have started interesting threads about alternative topics? And of those, how many have been ruined by macho chest beating?

Posted by: wabbit Oct 27 2015, 12:38 PM

Sorry Mr Capp? Please could you explain where there is an example of misandry on this forum? Maybe likening this forum to an old codgers chin-wag was 'puerile abuse' and 'throwing insults' in your book? Little over the top, eh!

As for 'being male or female should be irrelevant on a forum' - I agree but sadly, it isn't so. This isn't the first 'Newbury forum' which has deteriorated like this. More sadly still, it's some of the 'usual suspects' at play again.

Posted by: Petra Oct 27 2015, 02:10 PM

To all,

Hooray, I see people are coming back on here to voice their concerns/ opinions in what is wrong with this forum. Even though Mr Andy Capp doesn’t agree, I hope that he sees their point of views and start to understand why people have been put off by a few cliquey forum affiliates that drive the more intellectual or intelligent members away (or even the shyer ones). It is good to have this discussion and open things up.

People may regard somebody a certain way (like a Troll), but that isn’t necessarily everybody’s opinion/viewpoint. Therefore, wouldn’t it be acceptable to drop such terminology in favour of either debating the points or just ignoring those you find you can’t stomach or disagree with. I speak to a lot of people and one of their concerns is that they are nervous of voicing their opinions in case they are called trolls or belittled.

People should think what has been said here and then ask themselves what sort of forum do you want and what should be appropriate for a Newbury open-forum.
All the best,

Petra

Posted by: Ruth Oct 27 2015, 04:43 PM

I don't always agree with some of the comments you have come out with, but I must say I support what you and some others have said here. It seems the few try to manipulate or control this forum to their own ends, and that can't be right. Calling people names, trolls whatever you call it, is wrong. Criticise by all means, that is part of a healthy debate, but the line must be drawn on name calling. Andy Capp said he thought Petra was a Troll, ok, but other didn't share it. some think that Andy Capp is a troll, but that would also be wrong to call him as such.
A lot of abuse might be ok for some men, but us women are not into that (at least not all of us) so such forums should think of all, and not just the few. And there are many men that are not as robust as other men, all must be considered. That is all I've got to say on the matter.

Posted by: Don Oct 27 2015, 05:19 PM

Howdy all,

I joined this forum on March of this year. I hadn't been on here that long when somebody didn't like what I said and made a few choice words. Now I don't mind being criticised or even robustly being debated. But it was the manner that shock my confidence and I am sure a few others have also been put in the same position. Fair debate, granted, fair discussion, agreed, but words like 'trolls' and such is not what I would call cricket. Yes, I know I am from a generation of sweet and light (respect for each other), and society has changed, but I do feel vocal platforms have thrown the baby with the bathwater. Louts seem to have taken over these boards and allowed anarchy to reign supreme. Personally, I think people want to come on here to state their case, debate certain topics and hopefully come away wiser. Am I, or we, wrong in wanting this? If we were more civilised to each other I am sure more will come on here and take part. Thank you for listening to me.

Don

Posted by: CharlieF Oct 27 2015, 06:15 PM

Well I'm not a chap (in spite of my name) and I find the discussions on here enlightening, enlivening and sometimes infuriating but always worth returning to even if the catch-up reading takes some time.

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 27 2015, 06:18 PM

Many of you seem to be suggesting that I come on here and start hurling ""troll" at everyone at a drop of a hat? I don't.

My dislike of Petra's posting was nothing to do with a point of view it was Petra's disruptive abuse that was posted. Petra followed a pattern which fitted into place. As for controlling conversation. Where? All I really see is in the main people posting some stuff, make a fool of themselves, then disappear. If people post stuff I am not interested in, I ignore it.

I almost NEVER start a verbal spat, but I do tend to react if someone pointedly tries to belittle me. And until I'm banned, I always will.


So in summary: My 'behaviour' is NOTHING to do with point of view, it is down to 'people' like Petra hypocritically abusing myself and other regular posters (at the time). Indeed, early in Petra's life on here, Petra actually remarked I was one of the more sensible ones, but it didn't take long before we had to endure endless patronising and bilious diatribes Petra would frequently make once Petra's argument was examined.


"Anarchy", on here? Louts?



My word.




Oh and just for the sake of those with a sensitive disposition, a troll is simply another word for 'wind-up merchant'; WUM for short. Hardly the most heinous of attributes to label someone! And if I do eventually 'crack under the pressure of ignorance' and suggest such a thing, it would have not been without a protracted attempt to debate sensibly, but sensible debate with Petra will be almost impossible.

Posted by: spartacus Oct 27 2015, 07:50 PM

Those who compare this site with the likes of the https://www.reading-forum.co.uk/forum/ and bemoan the lack of activity should really be comparing like with like. Reading has a population of over 160,000. Newbury has a population of 31,000. It's BOUND to have less traffic or online discussion.

Let's face it, this is just a small, quiet market town. There's not a great deal to discuss anyway that's Newbury related. Some like to come on here to complain about the town's traffic and others moan that that's all we discuss on here. Be thankful. Other 'busy' boards are probably discussing their town's gang related crime, drug problems or racial tensions. If someone gets a wing mirror pulled off by a drunken lout on their way home from the pub in Newbury it's a big news item.....

A random point at the map suggests that Letchworth Garden City is similar to Newbury in population size (33k), similar distance from and on arterial route into London etc etc. I can't find a forum for Letchworth types to discuss their problems. Perhaps they're in the same boat with nothing much to discuss.

A fair bit of this thread seems to be from women members who say they've been put off contributing. Well, there's always http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk if you just want a girly natter and if the smell of testosterone in this place is too much to bear. Personally I can't smell a thing....

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 27 2015, 08:08 PM

I too think this is more of a case of solidarity than genuine harm or upset.

Posted by: spartacus Oct 27 2015, 08:20 PM

I must say though that this thread has raised a few members from the dead... Is it something to do with Hallowe'en? ..

Lurkers.. Perhaps before they all slink back to the dark corners whence they came, they could at least do the decent thing and start a thread off on a subject matter that interests them? Spill some pearls of wisdom? Cough up a random rant? Give us something! Show us your grey matter!! It's no good just coming on to complain and then running away again....

...otherwise, you are quite right and this place will be eerily dead as it seems there are sufferers of acute keyboard shyness in Newbury.

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 27 2015, 08:54 PM

Yes, I look forward to seeing what this forum can be like.

Posted by: spartacus Oct 27 2015, 08:55 PM

I find your comments a bit rich. I suggest you reread the thread you started on "The Great Parking Con" or some such. 27 pages worth. AC wasn't the only one 'jousting' with Petra. You and several others were quite happy to stick the boot in too....

Posted by: The Hatter Oct 27 2015, 09:27 PM

But its not just Petra is it?

Posted by: On the edge Oct 27 2015, 09:39 PM

As in most cases no one knows who you are; just give back in generous measure what you have been given. In any event, the views of someone who has resorted to personal attack are of little value anyway.

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 27 2015, 09:59 PM

It is rarely 'just' anyone, but accusing Petra of coming on here with the sole intention of winding people up is hardly the crime of the century! NOTWITHSTANDING we are all capable of ignoring: why is it only demand from some and not all; including people telling Petra? I believe that is down to bias, or perhaps people seeking offence, or quite simply an alternative way for some people to get their own way instead.

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 27 2015, 10:06 PM

That is not strictly true. Surely it is the content that determines that. I struggle to see how people posting anonymously can be described as launching a 'person' attack anyway. It can often be a case of people taking things personally when they needn't.

Posted by: On the edge Oct 27 2015, 10:25 PM

So when posters are responded to with unpleasant names or use words suggesting they are less than intelligent etc.etc. that isn't a personal attack designed specifically to hurt the person rather than the argument?

Posted by: x2lls Oct 27 2015, 10:30 PM

A bloody great LIKE!!!

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 27 2015, 10:42 PM

It depends on the motive; it quite easily could be in retaliation; self-defence in forum terms. To me it is trivial language. If one is indulging in an emotional subject, like politics can be, it is bound to be vulnerable to raised voices. Then add poor language skills, or inadvertent grammatical slip-ups then it can happen.

It happened to us recently. I took offence to you a while back, but I'd like to think we resolved it, I apologised and we moved on. I see nothing wrong there.

Posted by: x2lls Oct 27 2015, 10:46 PM

Methods of communication change with technology and new ideas to use it.
Even if the underlying purpose is the same as the last generation, we move from one presentation to another. Just look at all the different manifestations of MS Windows. They all still have files, networks, stuff.
There simply isn't the benefit of numbers contributing. Just look at Newbury Past and Present.
Arguments go on all the time, but it remains a success.

The whole shape of this forum has become a dinosaur....

That said, it is, after all, a grant from a commercial institution.

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 27 2015, 11:29 PM

Newbury Past and Present benefit from the picture gallery. It otherwise has all the draw-backs of this site, including a clique.

Posted by: wabbit Oct 28 2015, 06:54 AM

You maybe didn't have time to actually look at the Reading forum - it covers many different topics and not all of them directly related to the town but my point is that the whole atmosphere of that forum is radically different to the one here. Reading comes in for a whole lot of criticism and prejudice (especially here) but, for a 'small market town' the problems here are pretty much the same (albeit on a smaller scale) - just look at the headlines here now of a terribly tragic hit and run, a violent attack on a woman, drug dealing and youths chasing others with knives!

There has been damning criticism here too of the (very popular) Newbury Facebook page.... but of course it is run by...a woman!

My point is that a good Newbury forum would give even the casual visitor (to this site) a more positive reflection of Newbury and its residents. And no, my name is not Pollyana.

Unfortunately, you have rather shot yourself in the foot Spartacus with your dismissive recommendation to move along and try 'Mumsnet' - I guess with a forum name suggestive of gladiatorial prowess, you will always 'see off' anyone you perceive not to be man enough for this forum. It may astonish you to know that women are actually interested in a little more than fluffy kittens and handbags.




'Lurkers', 'slink back' - we are not pond creatures! 'Show us your grey matter' - er, why? Surely, no-one has to prove Mensa membership now to join your elite forum cohort do they? Again, you are displaying all the characteristics which some of us find so tedious and exclusive. I hope you are actually being 'tongue in cheek' with your comments but honestly, I'm not entirely sure.

I have been a member of this forum for around 6 years (and started topics myself) but I confess I don't feel comfortable here and had always hoped over the years that it might have changed and become more inclusive - but it just hasn't. New format forum needed please NWN!

Posted by: On the edge Oct 28 2015, 07:41 AM

OK, its a fine line, I can see that. I'd concede that a bit of heat sometimes does temper the argument and makes for far less bland and perhaps ineffective debate. It often comes in the heat of the moment indicative of passion and commitment. Ironically, thinking about it, its exactly what many of us have been calling for in our local council debates!

Posted by: HeatherW Oct 28 2015, 09:35 AM

You seem to be obsessed with this Petra. It is Petra this or Petra that, but never you. Lucky others have come on here and have pointed the finger in your direction. This must tell you something Mr Capp.

I also get the impression that there is something personal between you and her. Maybe you know her in the real world, or had a personal fixation over her. Maybe she was your boss, or maybe even your mother that rejected you and now that you have found her you just want to get your troubles of your chest. Who knows, but what is for sure is that you have issues with her, to such an extent that you are bringing them onto the forum and creating disharmony. Let sleeping dogs lie, Mr Capp and let us get back to forum debate,humour or just waffling along. You are obviously a troubled person. I don’t know whether to cry on your behalf or reach for the emergency services. But whatever is the answer, just leave it alone.

Posted by: blackdog Oct 28 2015, 10:18 AM

He'll be very interested to hear this!

Posted by: HeatherW Oct 28 2015, 10:48 AM

I get the impression that Mr Capp has problems with anybody that doesn’t have testicles. I think he prefers the masculine let-us-clash-heads approach and when he is faced with someone of equal intelligence (or more intelligence) and that person happens to be a non-testicle person he is confused and starts shouting out ‘Troll! Troll!’ in the hope it hides his weaknesses and embarrassment. And I noticed that Petra did get the better of him on many occasions. Such men find that hard to cope with.

Posted by: wabbit Oct 28 2015, 11:32 AM

Not sure of your definition of 'troll'; I think this is more accurate (taken from an 'internet basics' website):-

An internet 'troll' is an abusive or obnoxious user who uses shock value to promote arguments and disharmony in online communities. Named after the wicked troll creatures of children's tales, an internet troll is someone who stirs up drama and abuses their online anonymity by purposely sowing hatred, bigotry, racism, mysogyny, or just simple bickering between others.

Trolls like a big audience, so they frequent blog sites, news sites, discussion forums, and game chat. Trolls thrive in any environment where they are allowed to make public comments.

At the lighter end of the troll spectrum, trolls can be personal friends who like to goad and joke with their buddies online.


So, unless Petra et al are your personal friends, I think calling someone a troll is quite offensive and probably almost entirely inaccurate on this forum. Seems to me that it is just used as a way of trying to take the moral high ground and silence any dissenter. Just saying....

Posted by: HeatherW Oct 28 2015, 12:23 PM

I think you hit the nail on the head there. Petra or anybody else isn’t a troll, if they were, they would have been removed quite quickly. It is just that Andy Capp doesn’t like being challenged and got the better of by a woman.

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 28 2015, 12:51 PM

Fact is it is a WUM. You will find different definitions depending on where you seek it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

"In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion, often for their own amusement."

So I reject your notion. Petra did the above in spades.

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 28 2015, 12:56 PM

Not true: troll has a broad meaning, so I guess some might be upset if they are looking to be offended. Petra and others easily fit a lot of the description wabbit posted.


I couldn't give flying fig on the gender, and as you seem to be ignoring my comment, I will make it again: my troll comment came after a protracted debate which Petra eventually took to the level of an abusive row. Indeed, I have seen you recently make comments that can only be described as being deliberately inflammatory: all this sad old men and saliva stuff.

The only people with gender issues appear to be female.

Posted by: Spider Oct 28 2015, 04:21 PM

I always thought you were a misogynist and here you are confirming it. Shame on you. No wonder you have a problem with people like Petra on here.

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 28 2015, 04:41 PM

How the does that do any of the sort? You are being ridiculous (not to mention partisan).

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 28 2015, 04:55 PM

Yes. It tells me people are like sheep.


You should put that kind of imagination to good use; you'd make a fortune, but you may damage your liver in the process.

If the harmony of the forum was really your main concern; you wouldn't post such inflammatory twaddle.

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 28 2015, 04:56 PM

Nice try.

Posted by: Spider Oct 28 2015, 05:16 PM

That first line doesn't make sense. And am I being ridiculous? Your obsession with Petra and I am not the only one to pick this up. HeatherW seems to have picked it up as well, among others, and of course your comments I quoted. Add it up yourself.

Posted by: Spider Oct 28 2015, 05:17 PM

Are you trying to laugh your way out what others have observed?

Posted by: JaneGibbs Oct 28 2015, 05:43 PM

I've been reading these comments for the last couple of days and I must agree with those that point the finger at the reasons why AC goes after or belittles women on here. When he tried to laugh his way out of a serious matter then there was no other conclusions I could make. I am sadden by that. This forum has deteriorated of late, thanks for a handful of people.

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 28 2015, 06:12 PM

Edited for the sake of decorum.

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 28 2015, 06:14 PM

Edited for the sake of decorum.

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 28 2015, 06:15 PM

Edited for the sake of decorum.

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 28 2015, 06:16 PM

If you all want to draw a line, I'm happy to agree to that. I'll stop and let you have that last word, would that be acceptable? Or if not, what would you like me to do to make things better?

Posted by: Petra Oct 28 2015, 07:19 PM

I accept your apology, Mr Capp and I agree that we should move on. And I am also pleased that nobody again will have to put up with the word Troll hurtled at them. Nevertheless, if somebody should feel that there is a troll amongst you then the best course of action would be to report it to the Administrator of this forum to deal with the matter.

Yours,
Petra

PS debate with decorum.

Posted by: JaneGibbs Oct 28 2015, 07:22 PM

I just looked on and read Mr capps apology to Petra and thank him for accepting what he said against women was wrong and I also agree that we should move on.

Posted by: GMR Oct 28 2015, 07:43 PM

That is not how I read it, but never mind... love is all around and that can only be a good thing. So; does that mean we are going to debate in a serious and more professional way; as adults?

Posted by: spartacus Oct 28 2015, 08:41 PM

Just caught up with some of these latest comments...
..... for all the whining about Andy supposedly being the vessel from which personal and hurtful comments pour onto other more sensitive souls on here, it seems that some of the very recent (female?) contributors to this thread have a pretty loose interpretation of what ‘personal and hurtful’ forum comments might be when they come from THEIR keyboards....

Lesser mortals than AC would be traumatised by such vitriol.... such a personal comment to make too (you don't have access to his medical records do you?)



Handbags at dawn stuff though with some queueing up to scratch his eyes out.... It seems that Girl Power is making a comeback on the Newbury Forum...

Posted by: Simon Kirby Oct 28 2015, 09:23 PM

Amen to that.

Posted by: blackdog Oct 28 2015, 11:10 PM

I wasn't referring to Mr Capp (or is it Mrs Capp?) but to Mr K who runs the Facebook group.

Posted by: GMR Oct 29 2015, 04:11 PM

How do you know that Andy Capp or anybody on here has or hasn't got testicles? Unless you know the person personally then we could be anybody. So Heather could be right... and even if she is, Andy Capp isn't going to admit it, is he?

Posted by: Exhausted Oct 29 2015, 04:52 PM

I guess that as this has gone on so long, you have all paid for the full argument.

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 29 2015, 05:12 PM

Just don't mention the war.

Posted by: GMR Oct 29 2015, 05:57 PM

... or testicles

Posted by: On the edge Oct 29 2015, 07:11 PM

Why not, this thread is all balls anyway!!!

Posted by: CharlieF Oct 30 2015, 01:22 PM

Thank you!

Posted by: Nothing Much Oct 31 2015, 03:34 PM

Thanks wabbit for the comment some pages ago.
I've been off-line for a few days as Virgin adjust my testicles.

I lurk in the background usually.
But with internet it is interesting to keep popping up.
I lived for 20 years in Woolton Hill so I do have an interest.
CE

Posted by: Nothing Much Oct 31 2015, 03:45 PM

A bit embarrassing to be top of the page
with a comment about Virgin and Testicles!

Not really my style of whimsy....

Posted by: Strafin Nov 1 2015, 10:08 AM

My personal thoughts, take them or leave them:

1. The more the merrier, you need more people to make it interesting, even if you don't agree and actually sometimes it's nice to hear other opinions. I have changed my mind on many subjects as a result of discussions on here.

2. Not everything is an argument - some people seem to try and "win" at having a discussion.

3. You can ignore people if they don't interest you

4. People aren't always what they claim to be. We can all pretend to be anyone or anything on here.

5. You can get some good advice. I said I didn't like Newbury, User23 told me top move so I did, and I love living in Wantage now! It's one of the reasons I don't post so much now, but I like to see how you all are doing from time to time.

Posted by: Exhausted Nov 1 2015, 01:33 PM

And of course sometimes a subject comes up on which one has limited knowledge and there is a chance to learn new stuff.

Posted by: Nothing Much Nov 9 2015, 02:02 PM

Not sure if I have posted this before. But I liked Andy Capp's comment about my "Bohemian"posts.
Strange times in the 60s. I went to a boys boarding school . Shrewsbury. Most of my friends
were younger siblings of Monty Pythons. So we tried to do anarchy....as well. Mostly we failed.

Palin ,Ingrams. Rushton, John Peel (Ravenscroft) ,Carl Henty-Dod..(Simon Dee DJ) Paul Foot

It was quite chaotic. 6 young lads were rusticated (sent home) for brewing up LSD.
2 were invited back to sit exams for Cambridge or Oxford to study chemistry!