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Newbury Today Forum _ Random Rants _ St John's Roundabout - Help a Cyclist

Posted by: Claude Jul 16 2013, 12:07 PM

Please can someone offer some guidance on the safest/intended way to use St John's roundabout as a cyclist?

I appreciate the safest way is probably to get off, walk on the pavements then re-mount your steed and continue on your journey, but I don't want to get off.

Assume you're heading in a southerly direction from the town centre towards the roundabout, and you wish to take the 3rd exit (Andover Road).

a) What road position should you use when approaching the roundabout?
cool.gif At what point should you indicate?
c) How long should you indicate for?
d) Who do you need to give priority to when approaching the roundabout?
e) Who do you need to give priority to when on the roundabout?
f) What road position would you use when on the roundabout?

If nobody else has experience I'd urge you to try this manoeuvre at 9am on a weekday, but if you do please make sure you wear a helmet!!!

Genuine comments & guidance would be most welcomed.

Posted by: motormad Jul 16 2013, 12:33 PM

Work harder and buy a car.

Posted by: Nothing Much Jul 16 2013, 12:48 PM

Well Claude. You certainly come up with some tricky questions.

Assuming that I am going to get this all wrong, but looking at the project from a car drivers viewpoint this might be worth typing.
As a car I would do it all differently.

Forget walking round. Cars are even more dangerous coming off a roundabout.
Wear something bright and sit up straight. Make yourself as big an object as possible
Don't race, especially VWs... the driver has missed his breakfast! Be positive on your moves.

Heading south to Andover I would plod round the outside expecting cars to cut you up from the other lane/s.
Keep looking round over your shoulder. A driver likes to know you are being conscious of your actions.
To turn left as you approach the exit a solid arm shows that you know what you are doing.
Perhaps 20 yards /metres from the exit. Try not to let trucks or Tesco delivery vans force you to get to the kerb.

As a car of course I would engage sport mode from the R/H lane cut across to the centre and then cut across
to exit. Bloody cars. You also have to cope with drivers who are on holiday and have no idea where they are.
ce

Posted by: Claude Jul 16 2013, 01:37 PM

QUOTE (motormad @ Jul 16 2013, 01:33 PM) *
Work harder and buy a car.

If you don't have anything useful to say then please don't bother posting, unless it's funny, which this was not.

Posted by: Claude Jul 16 2013, 01:40 PM

QUOTE (Nothing Much @ Jul 16 2013, 01:48 PM) *
Well Claude. You certainly come up with some tricky questions.

Assuming that I am going to get this all wrong, but looking at the project from a car drivers viewpoint this might be worth typing.
As a car I would do it all differently.

Forget walking round. Cars are even more dangerous coming off a roundabout.
Wear something bright and sit up straight. Make yourself as big an object as possible
Don't race, especially VWs... the driver has missed his breakfast! Be positive on your moves.

Heading south to Andover I would plod round the outside expecting cars to cut you up from the other lane/s.
Keep looking round over your shoulder. A driver likes to know you are being conscious of your actions.
To turn left as you approach the exit a solid arm shows that you know what you are doing.
Perhaps 20 yards /metres from the exit. Try not to let trucks or Tesco delivery vans force you to get to the kerb.

As a car of course I would engage sport mode from the R/H lane cut across to the centre and then cut across
to exit. Bloody cars. You also have to cope with drivers who are on holiday and have no idea where they are.
ce

ce, you raise some interesting points, thanks for taking the time. Personally I think it's a great roundabout for driving, the camber really entices you to do things you shouldn't, but I really want some advice from someone who has experience of riding this 'hazard'.

Posted by: motormad Jul 16 2013, 02:28 PM

QUOTE (Claude @ Jul 16 2013, 02:37 PM) *
If you don't have anything useful to say then please don't bother posting, unless it's funny, which this was not.





All of the questions you ask are in the highway code and the lanes (and what one you need to be in for each exit) are clearly marked. If you are on a bicycle where the speed bump comes up you can get onto the path quite easily, cross the road, and then carry on.


Posted by: Nothing Much Jul 16 2013, 02:36 PM

Hello Claude again. I have just driven round the area ( thanks Google). A darn good excuse for not cleaning windows!

Looking at the other site there was about 5 pages, mostly anti, of comments regarding the cycle lanes.
The posts dated from 2009 and included Blackdog, Brian and GMR.

To my mind they are not necessary. Confusing for the driver and giving a false sense of safety to a cyclist.
As an aside...I wonder if the architect is proud of his work on the Post Office on the corner of Old Newtown Rd.

To answer some of the points of detail.
You would be unable to signal your intentions at the entry point.
Give way to vehicles indicating/pushing/overtaking from the right.
Then take up space in the traffic lane. Most drivers follow the car in front.
If you are acting like a car you won't get run into.
This is defensive cycling.Maybe a bit wimpy but if it gets you round in one piece who cares.
When it is your turn to go use the vehicle spaces. pretend you are a car.

I passed my driving test in 1967 round that set of roads.Also a motorbike test and I can ride a big engined one
but I think the mid life crisis has passed me by ,Thank the Lord.

I also used the road after the Newt of Orme evening approaching from Jewsons side roads a few weeks ago.

That continental give way system is a nightmare! I think I have rambled enough for now.
ce
It seemed fairly quiet at about 10.00

Posted by: Nothing Much Jul 16 2013, 02:45 PM

Hi motormad.A large percentage of the comments made in 2009 about the same area quoted the highway code.
Most agreed that no one looks at it except to make points on threads such as this.
Not very useful when a red Corsa is desperate to get past so that it has the chance to stop 30 yards further on, a nano second faster than anyone else. The code can't give a complete answer to every quirk of human nature... same as the Bible or Koran
ce

Posted by: Claude Jul 16 2013, 03:00 PM

QUOTE (Nothing Much @ Jul 16 2013, 03:36 PM) *
Hello Claude again. I have just driven round the area ( thanks Google). A darn good excuse for not cleaning windows!

Looking at the other site there was about 5 pages, mostly anti, of comments regarding the cycle lanes.
The posts dated from 2009 and included Blackdog, Brian and GMR.

To my mind they are not necessary. Confusing for the driver and giving a false sense of safety to a cyclist.
As an aside...I wonder if the architect is proud of his work on the Post Office on the corner of Old Newtown Rd.

To answer some of the points of detail.
You would be unable to signal your intentions at the entry point.
Give way to vehicles indicating/pushing/overtaking from the right.
Then take up space in the traffic lane. Most drivers follow the car in front.
If you are acting like a car you won't get run into.
This is defensive cycling.Maybe a bit wimpy but if it gets you round in one piece who cares.
When it is your turn to go use the vehicle spaces. pretend you are a car.

I passed my driving test in 1967 round that set of roads.Also a motorbike test and I can ride a big engined one
but I think the mid life crisis has passed me by ,Thank the Lord.

I also used the road after the Newt of Orme evening approaching from Jewsons side roads a few weeks ago.

That continental give way system is a nightmare! I think I have rambled enough for now.
ce
It seemed fairly quiet at about 10.00

I hadn't considered the 'pretend to be a car' approach, I might give that one a go when I make my next attempt at safe passage to the other side.

Apologies in advance if it's you that's behind me motormad, but at least you'll know I'm in the road and not in the marked cycle lane because in my personal experience it's not safe enough there.

Legendary!

Posted by: Nothing Much Jul 16 2013, 03:39 PM

ONLY Me... again.
http://www.newbury.net/forum/v-print/m-1295451770/
The post is from Golfy and Spartacus adds a gif. At the bottom of the page.
It actually almost says what I had written above. Except in a quarter the volume.
"As I go ramblin' round"
ce.

Posted by: motormad Jul 16 2013, 03:43 PM

QUOTE (Nothing Much @ Jul 16 2013, 03:45 PM) *
Hi motormad.A large percentage of the comments made in 2009 about the same area quoted the highway code.
Most agreed that no one looks at it except to make points on threads such as this.
Not very useful when a red Corsa is desperate to get past so that it has the chance to stop 30 yards further on, a nano second faster than anyone else. The code can't give a complete answer to every quirk of human nature... same as the Bible or Koran
ce


Oh no you're exactly right CE.
No-one looks at it.

However I was simply writing, if it were me, that is what Andy Capp or some other wind-up merchant would have said. laugh.gif

Posted by: GMR Jul 16 2013, 03:46 PM

QUOTE (Claude @ Jul 16 2013, 01:07 PM) *
Please can someone offer some guidance on the safest/intended way to use St John's roundabout as a cyclist?

I appreciate the safest way is probably to get off, walk on the pavements then re-mount your steed and continue on your journey, but I don't want to get off.

Assume you're heading in a southerly direction from the town centre towards the roundabout, and you wish to take the 3rd exit (Andover Road).

a) What road position should you use when approaching the roundabout?
cool.gif At what point should you indicate?
c) How long should you indicate for?
d) Who do you need to give priority to when approaching the roundabout?
e) Who do you need to give priority to when on the roundabout?
f) What road position would you use when on the roundabout?

If nobody else has experience I'd urge you to try this manoeuvre at 9am on a weekday, but if you do please make sure you wear a helmet!!!

Genuine comments & guidance would be most welcomed.





I cycle regularly on St John's Roundabout but I won't use the Green lane. It is dangerous. Not only is that my opinion but I was told the same by a police officer and other cyclists.

Cars cut in when you have the right of way. When I approach the roundabout I position myself, as a car would (and as it says in the Highway code), and when save drive.

I've never seen a cyclist use that green path.

Posted by: Claude Jul 16 2013, 03:48 PM

QUOTE (Nothing Much @ Jul 16 2013, 04:39 PM) *
ONLY Me... again.
http://www.newbury.net/forum/v-print/m-1295451770/
The post is from Golfy and Spartacus adds a gif. At the bottom of the page.
It actually almost says what I had written above. Except in a quarter the volume.
"As I go ramblin' round"
ce.

Outstanding, merci beaucoup!

Posted by: Nothing Much Jul 16 2013, 03:58 PM

There are so many new things to worry about these days motormad.
London Bus lanes. Some are 24 hrs,some morning and evenings some are just morning or evening.
No one uses bus lanes at all now. Reading the statutory signs and oops there goes another cyclist.
They are a danger in Bus Lanes as they make little sound and in the often empty lanes can really go!

Apart from such money making items, errr of course I agree entirely when using my soon to be withdrawn Freedom Pass in Bus lanes.
Quite a few clever life saving schemes of road marking have been discarded as they proved too distracting/confusing for
everyone.
I don't even know the speed limit on Motorways. Well I know the official limit but that is a different kettle of fish.

I do believe AC had a peek earlier.ce

Posted by: Nothing Much Jul 16 2013, 04:50 PM

Yes OK I am a bit bored and googled Newbury. According to the Historical Society the 1st Traffic lights in Newbury were installed in the area of the roundabout.
In 1981 Tesco came to Newbury . The Soviet Union collapses and the Warsaw pact is dissolved.
In 1988 Methodist chapels are sold off. Coincidentally I looked up Newtown cemetery. It seems there is a Dissenters Crescent.
In 1867 The NWN was first pibloshed.2nd Reform Act extends the vote to skilled spellers. Sorry workers.

This darn PC. There goes the afternoon.
ce

Posted by: Strafin Jul 16 2013, 05:34 PM

I am always very wary of cyclists on that roundabout and always give them plenty of room. It is a ridiculous design and I wish you all the best!

Posted by: Simon Kirby Jul 16 2013, 05:35 PM

I use the "pretend you're a car" approach too. Cycling round in the cycle lane is ridiculously dangerous because it just invites cars to run you over as they exit across your path.

Posted by: desres123 Jul 16 2013, 07:53 PM

Why on earth use a cycle lane which defies all the rules in the highway code would cyclists or in fact (well usually) cars wont turn right on roundabouts using the outside lane so painting a cycle lane around st johns rbt is that going to protect the cyclist I leave that for you to decide

Posted by: GhostMemory Jul 17 2013, 06:56 AM

As a non-cyclist, I would agree with the 'act like a car' suggestion, as long as you're acting like a well-driven car. The biggest problem I have when I encounter cyclists is that a lot of them in my experience behave like reckless drivers / motorcyclists (no indication before a change in direction, no awareness of the traffic around them etc.) but do not have the speed and, more importantly, the protection. I drive on the A339 to Basingstoke and back every day so I see all sorts of terrible driving (mad acceleration to overtake on the single carriageway, breaking the speed limit significantly, only to get stuck behind a slow train of traffic trailing a HGV or tractor - an example that happened just this morning), but nothing scares me as much as a cyclist suddenly swerving out in front of me with no prior warning.

Posted by: Biker1 Jul 17 2013, 08:34 AM

QUOTE (Claude @ Jul 16 2013, 01:07 PM) *
I appreciate the safest way is probably to get off, walk on the pavements then re-mount your steed and continue on your journey, but I don't want to get off.

Cyclists "walk" on the pavements?
Don't make me laugh!! laugh.gif

Posted by: JeffG Jul 17 2013, 09:18 AM

As a car driver, I was in exactly this situation the other day. I was about to exit to the Andover Road but a cyclist was coming up behind me in the green lane. He actually exited up the same road, so there was no conflict, but until I was sure I was forced to wait in case he was going to carry on round. If he was a car there would have been no problem, as if he was going on round he would pass me on the right as I exited, not on my left.

Posted by: Claude Jul 17 2013, 09:38 AM

QUOTE (JeffG @ Jul 17 2013, 10:18 AM) *
As a car driver, I was in exactly this situation the other day. I was about to exit to the Andover Road but a cyclist was coming up behind me in the green lane. He actually exited up the same road, so there was no conflict, but until I was sure I was forced to wait in case he was going to carry on round. If he was a car there would have been no problem, as if he was going on round he would pass me on the right as I exited, not on my left.

No doubt if I adopt the 'I'm a car' approach I'll be lambasted for not using the cycle lane, but I've got thick skin and it won't be the first time I'll have attracted some criticism as a result of my cycling habits.

Thanks to all for your comments, much appreciated.

Posted by: Biker1 Jul 17 2013, 11:05 AM

I don't think there is any short term solution to the car / cyclist problem.
The issue being simply that they just don't mix as exemplified by the number of cyclists injured or killed.
The problem is further exacerbated by the fact that pedestrians and cyclists don't mix either as they are a danger to each other. (Why cyclists can't walk down the pedestrian areas of the town during traffic free periods like everyone else beats me!!)
The only way round it that I can see is to completely segregate cyclists from other modes of getting around as has been done to some extent in some European countries.
Will it happen here?

Posted by: Nothing Much Jul 17 2013, 11:39 AM

Nothing to do with cycling but similar.
Horses. Unless with a school and protected at front and back by experienced riders, cars can be extremely bluddy minded.

Sometimes you have to cross a road or move a horse to different grazing so roads are inevitably the only way to go.
Horses often weigh more than the car overtaking too close. Not pleasant to have one sitting on your chest.

I am not sure how it ended but one police area wanted to ban yellow tabards because they could be confused with police horses
and riders. So what? Anyway a country lane and police horses don't exactly spring to mind as existing together..
ce

Posted by: GMR Jul 17 2013, 05:26 PM

QUOTE (Claude @ Jul 17 2013, 10:38 AM) *
No doubt if I adopt the 'I'm a car' approach I'll be lambasted for not using the cycle lane, but I've got thick skin and it won't be the first time I'll have attracted some criticism as a result of my cycling habits.

Thanks to all for your comments, much appreciated.


I get lambasted all the time for not using the cycle lane; I just reply in kind. Even though there is a cycle lane or path for cyclists they don't have to use it under the law. Under the law you are entitled to use the road, as I do.



The trouble is with cycle lanes/ paths was that there was no thought put into it when they were created. Councils believe that putting a white line on the path or next to the path (thus creating a cycle Lane) was job done. Without no thought on pedestrians/ cyclists combination or cycle lanes/ paths being cleaned.

My son regularly used the cycle path and used to get loads of punctures. Also; while cycling down Kiln road - on the cycle path - some car was half parked on the road/ path and the driver opened her door as he went by and he went straight into it. A lesson learnt; don't cycle on unsafe cycle lanes.

You never see professional cyclists use them. That is because they are not stupid.

Posted by: On the edge Jul 17 2013, 07:03 PM

I can't believe that our local council would spend a large sum of money moving lamp posts and painting white lines down the middle of pavements to make a cycle path if it didn't work. After all, they've had enthusiastic cycling Councillors to guide them for a long time.

Posted by: Simon Kirby Jul 17 2013, 07:07 PM

QUOTE (GhostMemory @ Jul 17 2013, 07:56 AM) *
As a non-cyclist ... but nothing scares me as much as a cyclist suddenly swerving out in front of me with no prior warning.

In 30 years of driving I don't think a cyclist has ever suddenly swerved out in front of me. But I am also a cyclist.

Posted by: Simon Kirby Jul 17 2013, 07:13 PM

QUOTE (Claude @ Jul 17 2013, 10:38 AM) *
No doubt if I adopt the 'I'm a car' approach I'll be lambasted for not using the cycle lane, but I've got thick skin and it won't be the first time I'll have attracted some criticism as a result of my cycling habits.

Thanks to all for your comments, much appreciated.

Just out of interest, do you wear the string of onions round your neck when you cycle?

Posted by: GhostMemory Jul 18 2013, 06:50 AM

QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Jul 17 2013, 08:07 PM) *
In 30 years of driving I don't think a cyclist has ever suddenly swerved out in front of me. But I am also a cyclist.


I wish that were the case for me. In 8 years of driving I have experienced more than enough instances of this happening to me for me to be extra wary whenever I see a cyclist on the road.

As with most things in life, you get the good and you get the bad.

Posted by: Claude Jul 18 2013, 08:04 AM

QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Jul 17 2013, 08:07 PM) *
In 30 years of driving I don't think a cyclist has ever suddenly swerved out in front of me. But I am also a cyclist.

When I was younger I was pretty inconsiderate on a bike, I'd possibly go so far as to say I was reckless on occasion, but since becoming an experienced driver I shudder to think about the manoeuvres I used to make as a boy. Now I try to keep my swerves to a minimum but I do still make the odd move to avoid potholes, assuming I can't bunny-hop over them.

QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Jul 17 2013, 08:13 PM) *
Just out of interest, do you wear the string of onions round your neck when you cycle?

I'm afraid not, and my jersey of choice isn't navy & white-striped, however, there is a cloud of garlic following me wherever I go...

Santé!

Posted by: motormad Jul 18 2013, 08:29 AM

I'm surprised you can bunny hop the horse you seem to ride.

Use a cycle path if the road is not suitable or narrow. Or just use the footpath irrespective wink.gif

Posted by: GMR Jul 18 2013, 05:25 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Jul 17 2013, 08:03 PM) *
I can't believe that our local council would spend a large sum of money moving lamp posts and painting white lines down the middle of pavements to make a cycle path if it didn't work. After all, they've had enthusiastic cycling Councillors to guide them for a long time.




They may be "enthusiastic cycling councillors" but that doesn't relate to brain power or the ability to think. If we had intelligent councillors or politicians we wouldn't be in the mess we are currently in.

As for "spending large sums of money" or wasting money; just look at some of the decision they made only for them to decide a bit later on it was a failure. I imagine that when they decide on cycle lanes or paths they thought they were just joining in on the mood of the times. No further thoughts than that.

Posted by: GMR Jul 18 2013, 05:27 PM

QUOTE (Claude @ Jul 17 2013, 10:38 AM) *
No doubt if I adopt the 'I'm a car' approach I'll be lambasted for not using the cycle lane, but I've got thick skin and it won't be the first time I'll have attracted some criticism as a result of my cycling habits.

Thanks to all for your comments, much appreciated.




Whatever you do as a cyclist you'll be lambasted. Just do what you feel is safe and you are happy with. That is what I do.

Posted by: Biker1 Jul 18 2013, 06:37 PM


QUOTE (GMR @ Jul 18 2013, 06:27 PM) *
Whatever you do as a cyclist you'll be lambasted.

Incorrect, if they stuck to the Highway Code and common sense then they would not be lambasted by me!

QUOTE (GMR @ Jul 18 2013, 06:27 PM) *
Just do what you feel is safe and you are happy with. That is what I do.

And sod everyone else!
If only cyclists did what is safe!
Obviously "what they fee is safe" and actually being safe appear to be two different things. sad.gif

Posted by: GMR Jul 18 2013, 06:50 PM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Jul 18 2013, 07:37 PM) *
Incorrect, if they stuck to the Highway Code and common sense then they would not be lambasted by me!


YOU? You are not everybody. In fact probably just one in millions.


QUOTE
And sod everyone else!
If only cyclists did what is safe!
Obviously "what they fee is safe" and actually being safe appear to be two different things. sad.gif


All cyclists/ car drivers etc do what they feel they are happy with. However, some get it right and still have accidents, others do it wrong and survive.

And who is talking about "fee"? Unless you are suggesting they were sponsored? laugh.gif wink.gif Or are you talking about the girl Fee; nice girl, but a bad cyclist/ car driver. She is now with the angels, looking down on us and having a good laugh. cool.gif

Posted by: Biker1 Jul 18 2013, 06:52 PM

QUOTE (GMR @ Jul 18 2013, 07:50 PM) *
And who is talking about "fee"? Unless you are suggesting they were sponsored? laugh.gif wink.gif Or are you talking about the girl Fee; nice girl, but a bad cyclist/ car driver. She is now with the angels, looking down on us and having a good laugh. cool.gif

Nice one GMR!
I won't edit the typo just so you can dwell in your personal satisfaction. tongue.gif
Maybe get a few laughs? wink.gif
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-J0Sus_6zw&list=PL55C878FEE8A423D6

Posted by: Simon Kirby Jul 18 2013, 06:56 PM

QUOTE (Claude @ Jul 18 2013, 09:04 AM) *
When I was younger I was pretty inconsiderate on a bike, I'd possibly go so far as to say I was reckless on occasion, but since becoming an experienced driver I shudder to think about the manoeuvres I used to make as a boy. Now I try to keep my swerves to a minimum but I do still make the odd move to avoid potholes, assuming I can't bunny-hop over them.

Yes, I was a reckless cyclist too.

I give cyclists a wide berth when overtaking, and only overtake when I can see what's coming - I may not have seen many cyclists swerving, but I have seen plenty of cars overtaking with no thought about where to go if a car suddenly appears from the other direction! Wasn't it Eddy Merckx who said to give cyclists at least enough room to fall off?

And for the Highway Code quoters, here's what it says about passing cyclists:

QUOTE
The Highway Code says that when overtaking you should give cyclists "at least as much room as you would give a car". This is because: a) cyclists are prone to wobbing around a bit, particularly at low speed or in high winds; b ) they may move out to avoid a pothole, puddle, broken glass or cans etc; c) your slipstream may cause them to wobble; and d) because it's very scary to have a car whip past 2 feet away at 60mph (please consider slowing down as you overtake too)!

Posted by: Biker1 Jul 18 2013, 07:00 PM

QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Jul 18 2013, 07:56 PM) *
And for the Highway Code quoters, here's what it says about passing cyclists:

The Highway Code?
If I quoted all the rules that cyclists should obey but don't I think this thread may run into several pages!
(Post checked for typos but all corrections welcome!)

Posted by: Simon Kirby Jul 18 2013, 07:17 PM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Jul 18 2013, 08:00 PM) *
The Highway Code?
If I quoted all the rules that cyclists should obey but don't I think this thread may run into several pages!
(Post checked for typos but all corrections welcome!)

So what's your point? That some people are idiots? Of course they are, we know that, and some of those idiots will be idiot cyclists. Good drivers will understand that everyone else on the road could potentially do something really idiotic at any moment and drive accordingly.

Posted by: Biker1 Jul 18 2013, 07:41 PM

QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Jul 18 2013, 08:17 PM) *
So what's your point?

My point is that the majority of cyclists do not think the Highway Code applies to them.
On top of that they do not apply common sense especially when riding near pedestrians.
(Why ride at 20mph down a pedestrianised street?)
If they do not apply the rules then that causes accidents, injury and death.
QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Jul 18 2013, 08:17 PM) *
That some people are idiots?

No
QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Jul 18 2013, 08:17 PM) *
Good drivers will understand that everyone else on the road could potentially do something really idiotic at any moment and drive accordingly.

Absolutely.

Posted by: GMR Jul 18 2013, 07:43 PM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Jul 18 2013, 07:52 PM) *
Nice one GMR!
I won't edit the typo just so you can dwell in your personal satisfaction. tongue.gif
Maybe get a few laughs? wink.gif
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-J0Sus_6zw&list=PL55C878FEE8A423D6




Probably I am taking after you wink.gif

Posted by: GMR Jul 18 2013, 07:46 PM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Jul 18 2013, 08:41 PM) *
My point is that the majority of cyclists do not think the Highway Code applies to them.



It is funny you should mention this. I think a good majority of cyclists have never read the highway code. In fact they are not required to read the Highway code under the law. I did say once to a cyclist "you should read the highway code"; in which he replied "what is a highway code?"

For the record; I have read the highway code because I've got a car and motorcycle licence.

Posted by: Biker1 Jul 18 2013, 07:52 PM

QUOTE (GMR @ Jul 18 2013, 08:43 PM) *
Probably I am taking after you wink.gif

OK touché GMR but my occasional digs are about grammatical or obvious spelling inaccuracies, not typos.
I'll try to refrain but I think we both enjoy the odd innocent wind up! wink.gif

Posted by: Biker1 Jul 18 2013, 07:54 PM

QUOTE (GMR @ Jul 18 2013, 08:46 PM) *
It is funny you should mention this. I think a good majority of cyclists have never read the highway code. In fact they are not required to read the Highway code under the law. I did say once to a cyclist "you should read the highway code"; in which he replied "what is a highway code?"

Speechless....................no comment except, I give up! tongue.gif

Posted by: Simon Kirby Jul 18 2013, 07:55 PM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Jul 18 2013, 08:41 PM) *
My point is that the majority of cyclists do not think the Highway Code applies to them.

The majority? Hardly. Some, yes, and it's annoying, just like any inconsiderate or rude behaviour can be. It's a shame how the actions of a minority can hurt the perception of the majority, but most cyclists are - by definition - just like most people - reasonably considerate and just going about their business.

Posted by: GMR Jul 18 2013, 07:58 PM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Jul 18 2013, 08:52 PM) *
OK touché GMR but my occasional digs are about grammatical or obvious spelling inaccuracies, not typos.
I'll try to refrain but I think we both enjoy the odd innocent wind up! wink.gif



This is a forum, not a classroom. When you haven't got much time you don't check properly. That doesn't mean one doesn't know the right way.

I've noticed you making mistakes in the past but I presumed it was either typing error or just a mistake. Obviously you've got a lot of time on your hands to judge and be judger. But, yes, I agree with you about innocent wind ups. wink.gif

Posted by: GMR Jul 18 2013, 07:58 PM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Jul 18 2013, 08:54 PM) *
Speechless....................no comment except, I give up! tongue.gif




That'll be the day wink.gif laugh.gif

Posted by: Biker1 Jul 18 2013, 10:42 PM

QUOTE (GMR @ Jul 18 2013, 08:58 PM) *
That'll be the day wink.gif laugh.gif

I was under the impression I had been much less vociferous on here of late! tongue.gif

When you make statements such as you did about cyclists and the Highway Code (in which the rules for cyclists are clearly stated) then it does have the tendency to render one speechless. Little surprise that there is such an unfortunate death and injury toll amongst them.


Posted by: Strafin Jul 19 2013, 05:24 AM

QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Jul 18 2013, 08:17 PM) *
So what's your point? That some people are idiots? Of course they are, we know that, and some of those idiots will be idiot cyclists. Good drivers will understand that everyone else on the road could potentially do something really idiotic at any moment and drive accordingly.

Bang on! The best drivers allow for others mistakes, we all make them. Except Motormad.

Posted by: motormad Jul 19 2013, 12:47 PM

Glad you have learnt that laugh.gif

Posted by: GMR Jul 19 2013, 04:10 PM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Jul 18 2013, 11:42 PM) *
I was under the impression I had been much less vociferous on here of late! tongue.gif

When you make statements such as you did about cyclists and the Highway Code (in which the rules for cyclists are clearly stated) then it does have the tendency to render one speechless. Little surprise that there is such an unfortunate death and injury toll amongst them.




I think you misread what I said. Whether the rules are clearly stated or not in the Highway code it doesn't mean cyclist have read the book; unless those cyclists drive cars or motorbikes.

There is no law requiring cyclists to read the highway code.

Posted by: Biker1 Jul 19 2013, 07:23 PM

QUOTE (GMR @ Jul 19 2013, 05:10 PM) *
There is no law requiring cyclists to read the highway code.

There is no law to say ANYONE has to read the Highway Code.
Perhaps there should be? mellow.gif

Posted by: GMR Jul 19 2013, 07:37 PM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Jul 19 2013, 08:23 PM) *
There is no law to say ANYONE has to read the Highway Code.
Perhaps there should be? mellow.gif



Probably, but I can't see it happening.

Posted by: On the edge Jul 19 2013, 08:54 PM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Jul 19 2013, 08:23 PM) *
There is no law to say ANYONE has to read the Highway Code.
Perhaps there should be? mellow.gif


As you are tested on its content before you are given a licence and as you will have agreed to abide by its conditions in that licence application, there is a legal implication that you have read it. Other users are simply bound by the usual obligation to keep the law - arguably very different things.

Posted by: motormad Jul 19 2013, 10:11 PM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Jul 19 2013, 08:23 PM) *
There is no law to say ANYONE has to read the Highway Code.
Perhaps there should be? mellow.gif


Ah yes, a book based upon hypothetical situations which never happens, that was written 15 years ago.
That's like teaching children how to use Pythagorases Theorum. You want to know how many times I've used that since I've left school? NEVER.

laugh.gif

Posted by: Andy Capp Jul 19 2013, 11:09 PM

You might not, but we dunnarf rely upon people that do.

Posted by: Biker1 Jul 20 2013, 06:43 AM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Jul 19 2013, 09:54 PM) *
As you are tested on its content before you are given a licence and as you will have agreed to abide by its conditions in that licence application, there is a legal implication that you have read it. Other users are simply bound by the usual obligation to keep the law - arguably very different things.

Fair enough but still no obligation to actually read it?

Posted by: Biker1 Jul 20 2013, 06:47 AM

QUOTE (motormad @ Jul 19 2013, 11:11 PM) *
Ah yes, a book based upon hypothetical situations which never happens, that was written 15 years ago.
That's like teaching children how to use Pythagorases Theorum. You want to know how many times I've used that since I've left school? NEVER.

laugh.gif

Judging by the way many people drive on the road (and yes, bikers included) you are far from alone in ignoring it!
Pythagoras' Theorem is not in everyday use by the majority of people. The rules in the Highway Code are (should be!)
But of course you know better. tongue.gif

Posted by: On the edge Jul 20 2013, 06:51 AM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Jul 20 2013, 07:43 AM) *
Fair enough but still no obligation to actually read it?


Yes you are right that's strictly accurate, Then just reading it is very different from abiding by what it says. For instance, I've read Kama Sutra...

Posted by: Andy Capp Jul 20 2013, 08:28 AM

That is another point, reading doesn't equal comprehension or obedience.

Posted by: GMR Jul 20 2013, 09:31 AM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Jul 20 2013, 09:28 AM) *
That is another point, reading doesn't equal comprehension or obedience.





And you can see that in the amount of lunatic drivers on the road.

Posted by: JeffG Jul 20 2013, 12:30 PM

The last time I read a hard copy of the Highway Code, it had illustrations of how to give turn signals using the whip by drivers of horse-drawn vehicles. I see that has now been dropped from the on-line version. smile.gif

Posted by: MontyPython Jul 20 2013, 01:52 PM

QUOTE (JeffG @ Jul 20 2013, 01:30 PM) *
The last time I read a hard copy of the Highway Code, it had illustrations of how to give turn signals using the whip by drivers of horse-drawn vehicles. I see that has now been dropped from the on-line version. smile.gif


I believe you no longer are required to have a man walk in front of your car with a flag! laugh.gif

Posted by: GMR Jul 21 2013, 05:40 PM

QUOTE (MontyPython @ Jul 20 2013, 02:52 PM) *
I believe you no longer are required to have a man walk in front of your car with a flag! laugh.gif





As far as I know that law hasn't been rescinded yet. There are still a lot of old laws that haven't been removed from the statute books; even though they are no longer in use.

Posted by: GMR Jul 21 2013, 05:41 PM

QUOTE (JeffG @ Jul 20 2013, 01:30 PM) *
The last time I read a hard copy of the Highway Code, it had illustrations of how to give turn signals using the whip by drivers of horse-drawn vehicles. I see that has now been dropped from the on-line version. smile.gif



When I passed my test 35 years ago I never even read the highway code. The questions you are asked are common sense. So when I was asked questions I got them right.

Posted by: JeffG Jul 21 2013, 07:30 PM

QUOTE (GMR @ Jul 21 2013, 06:40 PM) *
As far as I know that law hasn't been rescinded yet. There are still a lot of old laws that haven't been removed from the statute books; even though they are no longer in use.

According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_flag_traffic_laws it was repealed in 1896. So you can tell your missus she doesn't have to walk in front any more.

Posted by: GMR Jul 21 2013, 08:18 PM

QUOTE (JeffG @ Jul 21 2013, 08:30 PM) *
According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_flag_traffic_laws it was repealed in 1896. So you can tell your missus she doesn't have to walk in front any more.



I am not saying you are wrong but I remember reading a couple of months ago that it hasn't been rescinded.

As for walking in front of the car; it can be good sport. laugh.gif

Posted by: motormad Jul 21 2013, 08:47 PM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Jul 20 2013, 07:47 AM) *
Judging by the way many people drive on the road (and yes, bikers included) you are far from alone in ignoring it!
Pythagoras' Theorem is not in everyday use by the majority of people. The rules in the Highway Code are (should be!)
But of course you know better. tongue.gif


wink.gif exactly.
laugh.gif

Posted by: Biker1 Oct 24 2013, 12:00 PM

Two very contrasting views on cycling on the letters page this week.
Concluding, it seems that if you are a cyclist you think the whole world should adjust itself around you including turning a blind eye to lawbreaking, and, if you are not a cyclist, you just think they are a pain in the ar$e!
(I wonder if either of the letter writers are on here. I would imagine so! wink.gif )

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