Tesco eyeing up new store after planning permission granted Options

[Andy Capp]

I think Royce Longton's reasoning is questionable. He says it's s tragedy the pub closed, but it closed because it's a siht hole and no one went there, and he says a Tesco will rob trade from the postoffice and general store, but if people want to shop at Tesco in preference then that's not really any of Royce Longton's concern is it, and shouldn't the postoffice and general stores just up their game?

You are focusing on one aspect. You have to also question the wider impact of a Tesco becoming a new 'Skynews'. I know that isn't WBC's concern, but someone has to take this into account.

Just because something is popular, doesn't mean it is good for the prosperity of everyone.

Anywho, WBC's decision to refuse planning for no good reason has cost the tax-payer a fair few quid on the developer's successful appeal.

If counicls just say yes to everything, then we may as well do away with them. It is incumbent on councillors to speak for their environment. Has there been an active petition for a Tesco in Burghfield.

[Roger T]

Calm auto correct. Nisa.

Despite your best efforts, I still did not understand what you tried to say.
I am sorry.
Truly.

[Simon Kirby]

If counicls just say yes to everything, then we may as well do away with them. It is incumbent on councillors to speak for their environment. Has there been an active petition for a Tesco in Burghfield.

But councillors can't decide planning decisions on their arbitrary subjective judgement, they have to weight the decision against planning policy guidance, development plans, and planning legislation. There is a statutory presumption in favour of sustainable development and the development was objectively sustainable, and this is why planning permission was granted on appeal at considerable cost to the tax-payer. By all means let elected local government write the local development plans but let's do away with unqualified amatures making planning decisions and leave it to apolitical professional planning officers.

[Strafin]

I used to be a councillor.....

When attending a planning meeting, there will be numerous applications, normally with the associated paperwork posted up on the walls for everyone to look at. A planning officer or "expert" will talk through each application, from a legal standpoint and make a recommendation. The councillors then ask questions about whether or not certain objections are likely to stand up, evaluate any opinions from the public and then vote. It is quite a good process in my experience.

[Simon Kirby]

You are focusing on one aspect. You have to also question the wider impact of a Tesco becoming a new 'Skynews'. I know that isn't WBC's concern, but someone has to take this into account.

Planning permission is granted for the site, not the applicant, so the fact that Tesco was interested in the site can't legitimately have influenced the decision.

But I take your point, there is a social and environmental dimension to how we shop, though it's bigger than just Tesco. Ideologically I'd like to believe that the free market should be allowed to regulate itself without any anti-competative monopoly legislation. It's not in the interests of the supermarket buyer to drive the price below that at which the supplier can afford to sell, the supermarket needs to buy next year as well as this year and if they break the supplier where do they buy from?

[Simon Kirby]

I used to be a councillor.....

When attending a planning meeting, there will be numerous applications, normally with the associated paperwork posted up on the walls for everyone to look at. A planning officer or "expert" will talk through each application, from a legal standpoint and make a recommendation. The councillors then ask questions about whether or not certain objections are likely to stand up, evaluate any opinions from the public and then vote. It is quite a good process in my experience.

I don't see what councillors bring to the party. Couldn't the whole process be done more effectively by professional planners?

[Strafin]

I don't believe a professional planner would take feelings from the community into account. They wouldn't necessarily take into account any objections either. Plus a lot of planning decisions are based on opinion, such as something being "in keeping" with the area.

[Andy Capp]

Planning permission is granted for the site, not the applicant, so the fact that Tesco was interested in the site can't legitimately have influenced the decision.

Do you think it was a decision against Tesco, or any supermarket chain?

But I take your point, there is a social and environmental dimension to how we shop, though it's bigger than just Tesco. Ideologically I'd like to believe that the free market should be allowed to regulate itself without any anti-competative monopoly legislation.

you said 'ideologically, but do you think it is possibly a naive concept? I'd prefer a 'freeish' market. The problem with corporations is that they can get two big and powerful; as a political power, as well as a commercial one.

It's not in the interests of the supermarket buyer to drive the price below that at which the supplier can afford to sell, the supermarket needs to buy next year as well as this year and if they break the supplier where do they buy from?

A subordinate manager eager to impress his boss for a reletive short term gain will not be too bothered about next year. And that is a part of the problem. Supermarkets offer some food that is simply not set at a sustainable price. Hence why we complain when the price of food goes through the roof.

On a more ecological/philosophical point. I think the ease we can get and buy food is a part of an insidious problem we have with gluttony, sustainable food supply, poor diet, and food waste.

[Andy Capp]

I don't see what councillors bring to the party. Couldn't the whole process be done more effectively by professional planners?

I read 'cheaper'. Provided the councillors' concerns are genuine, I feel it is a part of the apparent democratic process. Big businesses (the suits, the bean counters, the vulture capitalists) have little conscience.

[blackdog]

I think Royce Longton's reasoning is questionable. He says it's s tragedy the pub closed, but it closed because it's a siht hole and no one went there,

So why not let the pubco know that they are not going to get megabucks for the site and give them the incentive to put in a decent landlord and make it a good pub that people would go to.

[On the edge]

Planning permission is granted for the site, not the applicant, so the fact that Tesco was interested in the site can't legitimately have influenced the decision.

But I take your point, there is a social and environmental dimension to how we shop, though it's bigger than just Tesco. Ideologically I'd like to believe that the free market should be allowed to regulate itself without any anti-competative monopoly legislation. It's not in the interests of the supermarket buyer to drive the price below that at which the supplier can afford to sell, the supermarket needs to buy next year as well as this year and if they break the supplier where do they buy from?

I suppose the key issue is that the planning application and Tesco have become inextricably liked. Seems to me if it was 'Miggins Grocery' putting in the application there woulde be no major issue (save those who think motheaten pubs are historic monuments!)

The free market point is why people are concerned about Tesco. It is not a free market, they are part of an oligopoly which does manipulate and control the market. At long last there is talk that a Regulator is to be appointed.

However,don't hold your breath - Regulators haven't worked well in Railways or Water! We have to make our minds up - do we want the Amerckian capitalist model - the horse race, or the European one - a marathon. Miost of the comments here its the latter.

That would need an effective regulatory framework and further an effective and working Competition Commission.

[Simon Kirby]

you said 'ideologically, but do you think it is possibly a naive concept? I'd prefer a 'freeish' market. The problem with corporations is that they can get two big and powerful; as a political power, as well as a commercial one.

I'm admitting a weakness in my argument. Ideology can be a helpful guide but sometimes free market ecconomics might not always be best, but that doesn't make socialist big state interventionism a better ideology.

[Simon Kirby]

So why not let the pubco know that they are not going to get megabucks for the site and give them the incentive to put in a decent landlord and make it a good pub that people would go to.

Why not let the free market decide on the best use of the site within the constraints of the development plan?

[Simon Kirby]

The free market point is why people are concerned about Tesco. It is not a free market, they are part of an oligopoly which does manipulate and control the market. At long last there is talk that a Regulator is to be appointed.

I'm not convinced. If small agricultural producers can't get an ecconomic price for their produce then they need to improve their efficiency, increase their leverage, or fold their business - why should agri-business be any different from any other business.

[Andy Capp]

I'm admitting a weakness in my argument. Ideology can be a helpful guide but sometimes free market ecconomics might not always be best, but that doesn't make socialist big state interventionism a better ideology.

Some might argue a lack of interventionism is what has put us in the economic situation that we now find ourselves. I also don't think it is a matter of an idealogical pendulum swinging from one extreme, to another. To reject a total free market idea, isn't promoting socialism. I see a balance of the two is better.

[Andy Capp]

I'm not convinced. If small agricultural producers can't get an ecconomic price for their produce then they need to improve their efficiency, increase their leverage, or fold their business - why should agri-business be any different from any other business.

Correct, and that is what is happening.

[Simon Kirby]

Correct, and that is what is happening.

Is it? And is it a problem?

[Andy Capp]

Is it?

It is only anecdotal, but I watch the Sunday farm program, and it frequently shows farms closing under cost pressure, and now councils are selling their farm land as well. A good thing or a bad thing ...

And is it a problem?

... depends on the criteria for 'a problem'. Sustainability, ecology, animal welfare, etc.

I believe agri-business has value that is not apparent, mainly in its effect on the ecosystem. Notwithstanding what I already said about the effect of cheap food.

[Simon Kirby]

A good thing or a bad thing ...

Or just a thing?

I believe agri-business has value that is not apparent, mainly in its effect on the ecosystem. Notwithstanding what I already said about the effect of cheap food.

Yes, I agree here, agri-business shapes the landscape, and if we want to preserve a particular look to that landscape then we need to pay for that, and to some degree that now happens. But like any business, if a farm can't turn a profit it folds, and if supermarkets can't source produce they have to pay more - supply and demand. Would you go back to butter mountains and milk lakes?

However, I agree that there are sustainability, environmental, and food security issues with importing so much food that can be produced more cheaply abroad, though that's hardly a consequence of supermarketization as it was already happening early last century.

[On the edge]

No intervention al all is pure Adam Smith of course - absolutely right! However, political meddling is actually damaging fair markets and so there is an argument that intervention is right but only if it represents a 'missing or damaged' participant. UK Bacon producers who are obliged to implement UK animal welfare rules haven't a chance of competing with Continental imports which don't. Arguably, HMG should intervean to stop buyers in UK industry purchasing dead stock which had not been reared against our strict rules.

So much for the EU making trade fair. OK, consumers can use their power - but like it or not, the mass food market is driven by price. Again, we need to decide if we are going to 'regulate' to secure a fair markets - where competitive forces are distorted, or just let things rip. Doing the latter means you end with a monopoly.

Might not be as bad as all that - but even the most free state in terms of markets - the US has some regulation. For instance, the Anti Trust legislation means that there is more than just Esso in the oil industry. In UK, ironically, the trader everyone thought was the predatory monopolist - the Co-operative, went into reverse without any intervention. So, those worried about Tesco might take comfort. Where will they be in the future. In the meantime, enjoy the low prices!