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Chrimbo Tatfest |
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May 31 2016, 05:30 PM
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Newbury Town Council have agreed to let Victoria Park out for a Christmas market in a five-year deal, but have so far refused to say how much rent they will be charging the organisers. We had a big hoo-haa a few years ago when the then town clerk made the unauthorised decision to let the organisers off their £2,500 rent which had already been discounted from the published rate of around £3,500 without explanation, and my concern then was that this had created a binding precedent for future lettings, and I am more suspicious still now that the Council are refusing to disclose how much rent they will be charging, because £17,500 is a fair bit of revenue to forego, and as welcome as a Chrimbo Tatfest will be with its gluhwein and bratwurst I still expect it to pay its way.
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Right an injustice - give Simon Kirby his allotment back!
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May 31 2016, 06:45 PM
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QUOTE (Andy Capp @ May 31 2016, 07:17 PM) Commercial Confidentiality: expect to see this 'absorbed' in some summary accounts somewhere. Chairman of the committee Howard Bairstow (Con, Falkland): “There will be some revenue from allowing the use of the park,” he said. “But it’s more about doing something for people to get involved in and encouraging people to come to the town.”So my starter for ten is a £1.00. Curious, because that's the figure I had in mind. NTC would need to make a charge because without it there's no contract and they'd be powerless to enforce any conditions without one, but it does look very much as though they've given the park away again.
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Right an injustice - give Simon Kirby his allotment back!
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May 31 2016, 09:34 PM
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QUOTE (spartacus @ May 31 2016, 07:58 PM) Gluhwein and bratwurst stalls are fine in their place (normally Germany) but one of the godawful Christmas Markets I happened to walk through by accident last year up in Manchester had the same crappy market tat in place that you'd expect to be in place every week, just piled up in a pine cabin. And a vaping and electronic cigarette stall ffs.... spirit of christmas my arrse... They have obviously moved on from the tat that was on display by the side of st Nichs then? A super duper shower head on display in a bowl not even a sign of a sprig of holly or any other nod to Crimbo?
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Vexatious Candidate?
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Jun 2 2016, 06:26 PM
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QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Jun 2 2016, 06:19 PM) According to the NWN, the council are set to "earn £6k" from the Christmas market, plus "a returnable £4,400 deposit". The interesting thing about this item is there are no quotes attributed to this information. Quite some distance from the company that couldn't run it without free rent! £6k is more than the published rental for a single market so I'm guessing that it's £6k for the five year deal, so our council has discounted the usual letting fee by £11.5k - that's quite a generous gift. And then you have to take closer look at the claim that the council will "earn" anything at all. Take the charter market - the council pay a third-party market manager £12k annually to manage the market so you wouldn't expect there to be any additional administrative overhead for the council, yet the council still expend around £25k of their own staff time (some £250 of staff time per market day), so assuming the gluhwein shedstival likewise burdens the council administration that's an expected cost in staff time of some £37,500. So rather than "earning" £6k, the Newbury precept-payer is going to be paying £31,500 for the privilege of a Chrimbo tatfest.
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Right an injustice - give Simon Kirby his allotment back!
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Jun 2 2016, 07:11 PM
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QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Jun 2 2016, 07:26 PM) £6k is more than the published rental for a single market so I'm guessing that it's £6k for the five year deal, so our council has discounted the usual letting fee by £11.5k - that's quite a generous gift.
And then you have to take closer look at the claim that the council will "earn" anything at all. Take the charter market - the council pay a third-party market manager £12k annually to manage the market so you wouldn't expect there to be any additional administrative overhead for the council, yet the council still expend around £25k of their own staff time (some £250 of staff time per market day), so assuming the gluhwein shedstival likewise burdens the council administration that's an expected cost in staff time of some £37,500.
So rather than "earning" £6k, the Newbury precept-payer is going to be paying £31,500 for the privilege of a Chrimbo tatfest. If I have read the blurb correctly then the idea of the chrimbo tatfest is to attract visitors to Newbury shops? Can someone then explain why the BID is not covering the costs of the tatfest? If I was one of the permanent retailers in Newbury then I would be demanding why I was not getting a subsidy from the council for the Chrimbo period to match the tatfest organisers? If the Organisers are unable to operate a tatfest without being subsidised by precept payers money it should not be allowed the use of the park.
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Vexatious Candidate?
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Jun 2 2016, 08:47 PM
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QUOTE (blackdog @ Jun 2 2016, 08:57 PM) The Park rental is whatever they can get someone to pay - £6k from a market or £0 and no market. Providing the Park is returned in a good state of repair that's £6k in the council coffers that wouldn't otherwise be there. I don't agree. The park is a public open space maintained at public cost by Newbury Town Council. If the council are to let the park out to a commercial concern then that can't be at a cost to the public, and if the letting is going to cost the council £37,500 in administration busy-work then the council need to cover that cost in rental receipts - and remember, £37,500 is just the service staff costs and you need to add maybe 150% overhead on top of that for the back-office administration and office costs, so something like £94k would be the break-even rental - and if you think that's expensive, then yes, it is rather, but then Newbury Town Council is a spectacularly inefficient organisation with a £350k staff bill to deliver little more than the administration of a £350k grounds maintenance contract.
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Right an injustice - give Simon Kirby his allotment back!
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Jun 3 2016, 06:45 AM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 3 2016, 07:18 AM) I still haven't seen anyone using the adult exercise equipment; perhaps I go at the wrong time. It's ceremonial exercise equipment OtE.
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Right an injustice - give Simon Kirby his allotment back!
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Jun 3 2016, 07:32 AM
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QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Jun 2 2016, 09:47 PM) I don't agree. The park is a public open space maintained at public cost by Newbury Town Council. If the council are to let the park out to a commercial concern then that can't be at a cost to the public, and if the letting is going to cost the council £37,500 in administration busy-work then the council need to cover that cost in rental receipts - and remember, £37,500 is just the service staff costs and you need to add maybe 150% overhead on top of that for the back-office administration and office costs, so something like £94k would be the break-even rental - and if you think that's expensive, then yes, it is rather, but then Newbury Town Council is a spectacularly inefficient organisation with a £350k staff bill to deliver little more than the administration of a £350k grounds maintenance contract. If, if, if. There is no way it is going to be at an administrative cost of £37,500 - you have made it up, it will not cost that at all.
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Jun 3 2016, 07:38 AM
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QUOTE (blackdog @ Jun 3 2016, 08:32 AM) If, if, if.
There is no way it is going to be at an administrative cost of £37,500 - you have made it up, it will not cost that at all. Ah but Simon K is simply playing back NTC logic and it rather sums them up; they know the cost of everything but the value of nothing.
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Know your place!
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Jun 3 2016, 09:16 AM
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QUOTE (blackdog @ Jun 3 2016, 08:32 AM) If, if, if.
There is no way it is going to be at an administrative cost of £37,500 - you have made it up, it will not cost that at all. The staff cost for supporting one charter market day is £250, so it's valid to assume the same cost for a day of the chrimbo market, so if you're outraged by that outrageous administration cost you really need to direct your indignation at the town council, not me.
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Right an injustice - give Simon Kirby his allotment back!
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Jun 3 2016, 04:57 PM
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QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Jun 3 2016, 10:16 AM) The staff cost for supporting one charter market day is £250, so it's valid to assume the same cost for a day of the chrimbo market, so if you're outraged by that outrageous administration cost you really need to direct your indignation at the town council, not me. Isn't the 'support cost' being out-sourced?
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