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> Do black lives matter?, Do they?
James_Trinder
post Jun 13 2020, 04:52 PM
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QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jun 13 2020, 04:12 PM) *
Thoroughly disgusting scenes in London today. Stop it!


In contrast the conduct of the BLM protesters in Newbury today appears to have been much better:

https://www.newburytoday.co.uk/news/news/30...onstration.html
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SirWilliam
post Jun 13 2020, 05:40 PM
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QUOTE (James_Trinder @ Jun 13 2020, 05:52 PM) *
In contrast the conduct of the BLM protesters in Newbury today appears to have been much better:

https://www.newburytoday.co.uk/news/news/30...onstration.html


Seems to have been conducted in a civilised manner which no one can have any problem with but I still at a loss as to whether they are protesting about the treatment of people in America or here? We have strict laws in this country to protect the populace from racial/sexual/gender etc discrimination and anyone who is subjected to it has the given right to protection. I can not speak for other countries but, apart from a few mindless yobs ,we have a completely tolerant society of which we are justifiably proud yet we are being screamed at by a vociferous faction that is under the impression that we are anything but inclusive. Are these people completely ignorant or are we all missing the elephantidae in the room?


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TallDarkAndHands...
post Jun 13 2020, 05:46 PM
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QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Jun 13 2020, 06:40 PM) *
Seems to have been conducted in a civilised manner which no one can have any problem with but I still at a loss as to whether they are protesting about the treatment of people in America or here? We have strict laws in this country to protect the populace from racial/sexual/gender etc discrimination and anyone who is subjected to it has the given right to protection. I can not speak for other countries but, apart from a few mindless yobs ,we have a completely tolerant society of which we are justifiably proud yet we are being screamed at by a vociferous faction that is under the impression that we are anything but inclusive. Are these people completely ignorant or are we all missing the elephantidae in the room?

My best mate at work is black. He worked his socks off and is a very well respected member of the team. I have already suggested to the board that he should be promoted above me, as he is better than me. But...I guess I'm a racist for not being "left".
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SirWilliam
post Jun 13 2020, 08:19 PM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 13 2020, 06:46 PM) *
My best mate at work is black. He worked his socks off and is a very well respected member of the team. I have already suggested to the board that he should be promoted above me, as he is better than me. But...I guess I'm a racist for not being "left".


Which just shows that colour is what it is, just a colour. We all know or work with someone who is way out in front in their field and they are there on their inherent ability not because they have a white/black/sky blue pink skin. But of course we are preaching to the converted as usual.


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Andy Capp
post Jun 14 2020, 08:57 AM
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QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Jun 13 2020, 06:40 PM) *
Seems to have been conducted in a civilised manner which no one can have any problem with but I still at a loss as to whether they are protesting about the treatment of people in America or here? We have strict laws in this country to protect the populace from racial/sexual/gender etc discrimination and anyone who is subjected to it has the given right to protection. I can not speak for other countries but, apart from a few mindless yobs ,we have a completely tolerant society of which we are justifiably proud yet we are being screamed at by a vociferous faction that is under the impression that we are anything but inclusive. Are these people completely ignorant or are we all missing the elephantidae in the room?

Like else where, many have learned to hide their racism; however, racism is not solely a white diseased.
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SirWilliam
post Jun 14 2020, 10:03 AM
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QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Jun 14 2020, 09:57 AM) *
Like else where, many have learned to hide their racism; however, racism is not solely a white diseased.


Personally I would prefer that a racist stood forward so his views can be challenged in a educated fashion, which may result a little more enlightened individual, than to let their bigotry fester behind closed doors. On the flip side of the present coin we have openly witnessed hostility from black activists towards white citizens yet, to the best of my knowledge, no prosecutions have resulted.
If we are to have equality then both sides need to step back or we really will have social breakdown.


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Phil_D11102
post Jun 14 2020, 10:53 AM
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I am an American living in the UK for over 30 years now..

I am saddened, shocked and disturbed by the matter of George Floyd. No one should have to die like he did. The police should be held accountable for what happened.

I have been unfriend by several people black and white in the past few days because of my opinion.

This is from the Washington Post as they have been tracking the numbers of people dying from the police for the past few years.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/.../...ngs.../

1033 were shot and killed by the police.
601 of all races had a firearm
173 of all races had a knife
65 of all races used a vehicle
29 of all races used a toy gun
65 of all races used another object
55 of all races were unarmed
20 of all races were deem "unknown"
14 of those unarmed were Black
25 were White,11 Hispanic, 5 were other.

One thing that is not kept in the database is the race of the police officer doing the shooting.

490 people where shot and killed in Chicago in 2019, that is down from 564 in 2018, and 756 in 2016. Shootings were down to 2,139 -- lower than 2018's count of 2,367.
Still, city leaders have expressed hope that efforts undertaken since 2016 -- hiring more police officers, emphasizing community policing and making investments in social services and schools -- are helping to lessen violent crime.

What has to happen,as it is happening in Chicago, is COMMUNITY POLICING, and making the investment in social services and schools. That is for the Democratic mayor and governor to figure out. Defunding won't solve the problem.

Again, Memorial Day 2020 weekend, 85 shot, 24 dead.

I the BLM matter group should be protesting black on black crime, gang violence, the 600K plus a year black babies being aborted. Also protest the millions of Mom's, of all colors, who are raising their kids alone with out help, emotionally or financially.

These factors are also hurting the black community. Don't cherry pick the issues, address them all.

One person unfriended me because I post a newspaper front page about that Met officer attacked while making an arrest. The person said that black men died in police custody in that area, and my response was while that matters, why isn't BLM protesting about the arrest, and how several black me tried to stop it. One even danced and took a selfie, then tried to kick a WPC who went to help. Where is the BLM comments/protest about that, and the WPC was black.

Two of my children have BAME Godfathers, and they were asked to do it not for their sign, but for their character and kind hearts.

We are missing this, as well as people accepting others opinions, and responsibility.

BLM's matter, and I won't say all lives matter, as the black community has suffered. I think a lot of that suffering/racism has to be taken by that community, as responsibility and learning starts at home.

Now I am sure some folks will see my opinion as racist, but it is the truth..

Lastly, I voted libertarian in the last election for POTUS, as I can't stomach either party at the moment.
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TallDarkAndHands...
post Jun 14 2020, 11:15 AM
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QUOTE (Phil_D11102 @ Jun 14 2020, 11:53 AM) *
I am an American living in the UK for over 30 years now..

I am saddened, shocked and disturbed by the matter of George Floyd. No one should have to die like he did. The police should be held accountable for what happened.

I have been unfriend by several people black and white in the past few days because of my opinion.

This is from the Washington Post as they have been tracking the numbers of people dying from the police for the past few years.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/.../...ngs.../

1033 were shot and killed by the police.
601 of all races had a firearm
173 of all races had a knife
65 of all races used a vehicle
29 of all races used a toy gun
65 of all races used another object
55 of all races were unarmed
20 of all races were deem "unknown"
14 of those unarmed were Black
25 were White,11 Hispanic, 5 were other.

One thing that is not kept in the database is the race of the police officer doing the shooting.

490 people where shot and killed in Chicago in 2019, that is down from 564 in 2018, and 756 in 2016. Shootings were down to 2,139 -- lower than 2018's count of 2,367.
Still, city leaders have expressed hope that efforts undertaken since 2016 -- hiring more police officers, emphasizing community policing and making investments in social services and schools -- are helping to lessen violent crime.

What has to happen,as it is happening in Chicago, is COMMUNITY POLICING, and making the investment in social services and schools. That is for the Democratic mayor and governor to figure out. Defunding won't solve the problem.

Again, Memorial Day 2020 weekend, 85 shot, 24 dead.

I the BLM matter group should be protesting black on black crime, gang violence, the 600K plus a year black babies being aborted. Also protest the millions of Mom's, of all colors, who are raising their kids alone with out help, emotionally or financially.

These factors are also hurting the black community. Don't cherry pick the issues, address them all.

One person unfriended me because I post a newspaper front page about that Met officer attacked while making an arrest. The person said that black men died in police custody in that area, and my response was while that matters, why isn't BLM protesting about the arrest, and how several black me tried to stop it. One even danced and took a selfie, then tried to kick a WPC who went to help. Where is the BLM comments/protest about that, and the WPC was black.

Two of my children have BAME Godfathers, and they were asked to do it not for their sign, but for their character and kind hearts.

We are missing this, as well as people accepting others opinions, and responsibility.

BLM's matter, and I won't say all lives matter, as the black community has suffered. I think a lot of that suffering/racism has to be taken by that community, as responsibility and learning starts at home.

Now I am sure some folks will see my opinion as racist, but it is the truth..

Lastly, I voted libertarian in the last election for POTUS, as I can't stomach either party at the moment.


You just gave a balanced educated view. So in lefty world that means you are a racist.

Anyone seen the CHAZ "experiment" in Seattle, where the lunatics have taken over the asylum? Now that is something to behold..

https://mobile.twitter.com/FromKalen/status...709379688087555

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Phil_D11102
post Jun 14 2020, 11:43 AM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 14 2020, 12:15 PM) *
You just gave a balanced educated view. So in lefty world that means you are a racist.

Anyone seen the CHAZ "experiment" in Seattle, where the lunatics have taken over the asylum? Now that is something to behold..

https://mobile.twitter.com/FromKalen/status...709379688087555


Problem is 'cognitive dissonance.' People cannot change their narrative/opinion even when faced with facts.

If you talk about the 250 to 500K black on white crime, your a racists. The black on black death rate is higher in the US and UK vs being killed by a cop or dying in police custody.

As I said, I am made to feel like a racist because as it was said a balanced opinion is give.

If the police did two simple things, things would change.

1 - any officer who gets 3 or more complaints in 5 years or less has to face an independent review.
2 - every officer gets a psych test every year.

What happened in Atlanta yesterday is stupid. Cop field sobriety tests a black man sleeping in his car in a to go section of a Wendy's. When they try to arrest him, he fights, grabs the cops taser and runs. The other cop fires his taser 3 times to no help. The other cop shoots and kills the man after he points the taser at him.

The shooter is fired, the other cop placed on administrative leave, the police chief resigns, and more riots with the Wendy's being burned out.

At what point is person responsibility, culpability and compliance come into play. The guy wasn't unarmed, he took the taser forcefully from the cop. Chances are, and this won't come out, but he was probably wanted for something, which is why he ran.

George Floyd's autopsy showed he was stoned, too stoned to drive. He also was just getting over Covid, as well as having a heart problem. He was killed by the cop force air and blood going around his body. He is at fault.

The world is a screwed up place. Racism will NEVER be stopped, as man is sinful and wicked. The thing is you won't see that evil until is does something evil. Racists don't wear signs around their neck.

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SirWilliam
post Jun 14 2020, 12:24 PM
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QUOTE (Phil_D11102 @ Jun 14 2020, 12:43 PM) *
Problem is 'cognitive dissonance.' People cannot change their narrative/opinion even when faced with facts.

If you talk about the 250 to 500K black on white crime, your a racists. The black on black death rate is higher in the US and UK vs being killed by a cop or dying in police custody.

As I said, I am made to feel like a racist because as it was said a balanced opinion is give.

If the police did two simple things, things would change.

1 - any officer who gets 3 or more complaints in 5 years or less has to face an independent review.
2 - every officer gets a psych test every year.

What happened in Atlanta yesterday is stupid. Cop field sobriety tests a black man sleeping in his car in a to go section of a Wendy's. When they try to arrest him, he fights, grabs the cops taser and runs. The other cop fires his taser 3 times to no help. The other cop shoots and kills the man after he points the taser at him.

The shooter is fired, the other cop placed on administrative leave, the police chief resigns, and more riots with the Wendy's being burned out.

As an American, albeit a little estranged, I feel your opinion on the matter holds more sway than say mine who is viewing from afar, so perhaps you could enlighten me, (us), as to the feeling of of the wider population with regards to racial prejudice? Is is systemic as the media would have us believe or, like here, it is confined to an ignorant few both black and white and exploited by the political manipulators? Lot of flack thrown in Trumps direction but as far as I can see the country is no different to when Obama was in charge, apart from the fact that I do not recall rioting after each killing whether at the hands of police or from the victims contemporaries.

Maybe, like the corona pandemic, it is a relatively minor issue with excellent PR coverage that has instilled fear rather than levelled concern.

At what point is person responsibility, culpability and compliance come into play. The guy wasn't unarmed, he took the taser forcefully from the cop. Chances are, and this won't come out, but he was probably wanted for something, which is why he ran.

George Floyd's autopsy showed he was stoned, too stoned to drive. He also was just getting over Covid, as well as having a heart problem. He was killed by the cop force air and blood going around his body. He is at fault.

The world is a screwed up place. Racism will NEVER be stopped, as man is sinful and wicked. The thing is you won't see that evil until is does something evil. Racists don't wear signs around their neck.



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spartacus
post Jun 14 2020, 10:39 PM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 14 2020, 12:15 PM) *
Anyone seen the CHAZ "experiment" in Seattle, where the lunatics have taken over the asylum? Now that is something to behold..
....an unholy mess they are making of a fine city...
But there has been a comedy moment. Fox News are probably regretting not checking their news facts before airing... They reported last night on supposed in-fighting within the CHAZ police free zone and used a Reddit post to backup the claim..

"There's infighting among some of the occupiers, and some signs of rebellion against Raz Simone" ó (leader of the CHAZ group) intoned the Fox News anchor. "One posting on social media that has now been deleted, read this: 'I didn't vote for Raz. I thought we were an autonomous collective? An anarcho-syndicalist commune at the least.... We take it in turns to act as sort of executive officer for the week...but all the decisions of that officer have to be ratified at a special bi-weekly meeting by a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs but by a two thirds majority in the case of more major issues."

....problem is the Reddit poster was a bit of a comedian and was using a quote direct from Monty Python's Holy Grail...

https://deadline.com/2020/06/fox-news-monty...dit-1202958753/
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TallDarkAndHands...
post Jun 15 2020, 07:55 PM
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Good to see all the woke folk queuing outside primark today to buy stuff as cheap as chips made by the slaves of today in far away lands...

Ending modern day slavery is far more important than arguing over some historic figure from 300 years ago. But hey..that's just my thoughts..
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SirWilliam
post Jun 16 2020, 09:54 AM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 15 2020, 08:55 PM) *
Good to see all the woke folk queuing outside primark today to buy stuff as cheap as chips made by the slaves of today in far away lands...

Ending modern day slavery is far more important than arguing over some historic figure from 300 years ago. But hey..that's just my thoughts..


You don't hear that from the baying hordes, probably because they refuse to recognise the real issue when it stares them in the face.
Rather ironic that a news report the other day on the issue was followed by a charity appeal for money to "prevent" FGM, a practice condoned by family members in great swathes of africa and the middle east, but of course that is black doing it to black and in the eyes of the ignorant that is quite acceptable whereas a white policeman trying to arrest a suspect, who was drugged out of his mind and attempting to drive a car which may have killed far more, is considered the anti-christ incarnate when it goes tragically wrong.
How many murders have been committed since the incident? That information is conspicuous by it's absence but with a previous daily death toll of around 40 I am sure we would have heard if this had dropped to zero.

But like you say we are just a couple of rabid right wing neo-nazi thugs who should be lynched for even thinking such things.


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je suis Charlie
post Jun 16 2020, 04:58 PM
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I wonít kneel with the masses, I wonít be told my fate,

By people who hijack tragedy, To perpetuate their hate.

Donít you shout Black Lives Matter, Whilst running through the streets,

When your people are burning Foot Locker, Stealing Nikes for their feet.

Donít dance on The Cenotaph, Like itís Carnival or Mardi Gras,

That sacred granite edifice, Marks people who died in war.

How dare you besiege Number 10, This isnít even our fight,

If you want to go and protest, Get a 4,000 mile flight.

Social distancing flouted, Police punched in the face,

Missiles hurled at Downing Street., This isnít about race.

Itís rent-a-mob and anarchists, Versus police led by lambs,

They just stand there and take it, Lefty Cressida tied their hands.

Meanwhile Americaís burning, Itís a tragedy we all agree,

That George Floyd lost his life, For all the world to see.

Justice must take its course, The cop has lost his job,

Now he faces twelve good and true, Not a braying mob.

So Monday I wonít be kneeling, I wonít even bow my head,

Because someone I donít even know, Has wound up dead.

An armed robber and a felon, In and out of jail,

As a model citizen, He was a total fail.

Iíll weep for whom I choose to, Iíll say where and when,

Not because a lifelong offender, Bought it in the end.

I donít condone the officers, They rightly face the wrath,

But ask me to kneel for a criminal? Donít make me laugh.

You can keep your lefty rhetoric, Your dismantling of our state,

Itís BLM not Middle England, Thatís peddling the hate.
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SirWilliam
post Jun 16 2020, 06:18 PM
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QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jun 16 2020, 05:58 PM) *
I wonít kneel with the masses, I wonít be told my fate,

By people who hijack tragedy, To perpetuate their hate.

Donít you shout Black Lives Matter, Whilst running through the streets,

When your people are burning Foot Locker, Stealing Nikes for their feet.

Donít dance on The Cenotaph, Like itís Carnival or Mardi Gras,

That sacred granite edifice, Marks people who died in war.

How dare you besiege Number 10, This isnít even our fight,

If you want to go and protest, Get a 4,000 mile flight.

Social distancing flouted, Police punched in the face,

Missiles hurled at Downing Street., This isnít about race.

Itís rent-a-mob and anarchists, Versus police led by lambs,

They just stand there and take it, Lefty Cressida tied their hands.

Meanwhile Americaís burning, Itís a tragedy we all agree,

That George Floyd lost his life, For all the world to see.

Justice must take its course, The cop has lost his job,

Now he faces twelve good and true, Not a braying mob.

So Monday I wonít be kneeling, I wonít even bow my head,

Because someone I donít even know, Has wound up dead.

An armed robber and a felon, In and out of jail,

As a model citizen, He was a total fail.

Iíll weep for whom I choose to, Iíll say where and when,

Not because a lifelong offender, Bought it in the end.

I donít condone the officers, They rightly face the wrath,

But ask me to kneel for a criminal? Donít make me laugh.

You can keep your lefty rhetoric, Your dismantling of our state,

Itís BLM not Middle England, Thatís peddling the hate.



Well penned sir. Nothing more to add.


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TallDarkAndHands...
post Jun 16 2020, 08:25 PM
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QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Jun 16 2020, 07:18 PM) *
Well penned sir. Nothing more to add.

So.... China and India are going at it with estimates of a hundred dead, and now China, which had no infections for weeks suddenly has an isolated outbreak in Beijing. They lock down Beijing, stop all internal flights, but allow all international flights to continue. It's almost like the first version of the virus was not quite virulent enough, so they thought a 2nd go would be needed...

But hey, I dont want to start a conspiracy theory...🤣
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Biker1
post Jun 17 2020, 07:10 AM
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QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jun 16 2020, 05:58 PM) *
I wonít kneel with the masses, I wonít be told my fate,

By people who hijack tragedy, To perpetuate their hate.

Donít you shout Black Lives Matter, Whilst running through the streets,

When your people are burning Foot Locker, Stealing Nikes for their feet.

Donít dance on The Cenotaph, Like itís Carnival or Mardi Gras,

That sacred granite edifice, Marks people who died in war.

How dare you besiege Number 10, This isnít even our fight,

If you want to go and protest, Get a 4,000 mile flight.

Social distancing flouted, Police punched in the face,

Missiles hurled at Downing Street., This isnít about race.

Itís rent-a-mob and anarchists, Versus police led by lambs,

They just stand there and take it, Lefty Cressida tied their hands.

Meanwhile Americaís burning, Itís a tragedy we all agree,

That George Floyd lost his life, For all the world to see.

Justice must take its course, The cop has lost his job,

Now he faces twelve good and true, Not a braying mob.

So Monday I wonít be kneeling, I wonít even bow my head,

Because someone I donít even know, Has wound up dead.

An armed robber and a felon, In and out of jail,

As a model citizen, He was a total fail.

Iíll weep for whom I choose to, Iíll say where and when,

Not because a lifelong offender, Bought it in the end.

I donít condone the officers, They rightly face the wrath,

But ask me to kneel for a criminal? Donít make me laugh.

You can keep your lefty rhetoric, Your dismantling of our state,

Itís BLM not Middle England, Thatís peddling the hate.

You are part of the mainstream like most of us who can absorb and analyse things for yourself. Think yourself lucky!!

In the famous words of Monty Python................"You are all individuals, you can all think for yourselves, you don't have to follow anybody"!! tongue.gif
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SirWilliam
post Jun 17 2020, 08:52 AM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 16 2020, 09:25 PM) *
So.... China and India are going at it with estimates of a hundred dead, and now China, which had no infections for weeks suddenly has an isolated outbreak in Beijing. They lock down Beijing, stop all internal flights, but allow all international flights to continue. It's almost like the first version of the virus was not quite virulent enough, so they thought a 2nd go would be needed...

But hey, I dont want to start a conspiracy theory...🤣


Perish the thought.........Just don't dispose of that stockpile of PPE you have acquired quite yet. Never mind bumbling Boris will save us once more.......Or there again? rolleyes.gif


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MontyPython
post Jun 17 2020, 10:05 AM
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QUOTE (Biker1 @ Jun 17 2020, 08:10 AM) *
You are part of the mainstream like most of us who can absorb and analyse things for yourself. Think yourself lucky!!

In the famous words of Monty Python................"You are all individuals, you can all think for yourselves, you don't have to follow anybody"!! tongue.gif



Thanks for the quote - fame at last! biggrin.gif
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newres
post Jun 17 2020, 10:56 AM
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QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jun 16 2020, 05:58 PM) *
I wonít kneel with the masses, I wonít be told my fate,

By people who hijack tragedy, To perpetuate their hate.

Donít you shout Black Lives Matter, Whilst running through the streets,

When your people are burning Foot Locker, Stealing Nikes for their feet.

Donít dance on The Cenotaph, Like itís Carnival or Mardi Gras,

That sacred granite edifice, Marks people who died in war.

How dare you besiege Number 10, This isnít even our fight,

If you want to go and protest, Get a 4,000 mile flight.

Social distancing flouted, Police punched in the face,

Missiles hurled at Downing Street., This isnít about race.

Itís rent-a-mob and anarchists, Versus police led by lambs,

They just stand there and take it, Lefty Cressida tied their hands.

Meanwhile Americaís burning, Itís a tragedy we all agree,

That George Floyd lost his life, For all the world to see.

Justice must take its course, The cop has lost his job,

Now he faces twelve good and true, Not a braying mob.

So Monday I wonít be kneeling, I wonít even bow my head,

Because someone I donít even know, Has wound up dead.

An armed robber and a felon, In and out of jail,

As a model citizen, He was a total fail.

Iíll weep for whom I choose to, Iíll say where and when,

Not because a lifelong offender, Bought it in the end.

I donít condone the officers, They rightly face the wrath,

But ask me to kneel for a criminal? Donít make me laugh.

You can keep your lefty rhetoric, Your dismantling of our state,

Itís BLM not Middle England, Thatís peddling the hate.


Little Johnny 5 1/2
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Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 29th November 2021 - 09:42 AM