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Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Nov 17 2010, 11:49 AM

Well who would have thought it?

Ireland, Portugal, Spain, Greece. All countries on the verge of economic catastrophe and not able to do anything about it as they are all part of the Euro.

It would appear that Europe expects the UK to help bail Ireland out to the tune of billions of pounds as our economies are intertwined...

Here we go again.....

Posted by: Iommi Nov 17 2010, 12:28 PM

Remember: with no jobs in Ireland, where do you think the next port of call will be?

Posted by: GMR Nov 17 2010, 06:04 PM

I can’t see Europe crumbling down at this moment in time, but eventually.

Posted by: Biker1 Nov 17 2010, 07:50 PM

"at this moment in time" doesn't make sense (in any font)

It's either "at this time" or "at this moment"

Posted by: Jayjay Nov 17 2010, 08:16 PM

But Witney Houstons song would not sound as good.

Posted by: GMR Nov 17 2010, 08:20 PM

Actually it does and it is a well known phrase.

Posted by: user23 Nov 17 2010, 08:29 PM

It's a famous nonsense phrase used by TV reporters in the past.

It's rarely heard these days since it being ridiculed.

Posted by: Biker1 Nov 17 2010, 08:31 PM

Makes no difference - it's still not english!

Posted by: GMR Nov 17 2010, 08:34 PM

Actually it is, but I accept it isn’t to you. Never mind, don’t let it worry you!!!

Posted by: Iommi Nov 17 2010, 08:41 PM

I hear the phrase 'moment in time' all the time, and I would imagine everyone knows what one means when they use it. To me it makes sense; it is only unnecessary. A bit like saying: 'PIN number'.

Posted by: user23 Nov 17 2010, 08:44 PM

It's a nonsense because a "moment in time" isn't a defined measurement of time.

If one says "a moment in time" exactly how long are they talking about?

Posted by: Iommi Nov 17 2010, 08:51 PM

It is not a measurement of time, so your question cannot be answered. I interpret the phrase to mean: 'right now' (but might change later).

It is verbiage that gives the grammar snobs something to moan about, even though everyone knows what it means

Posted by: Biker1 Nov 17 2010, 09:47 PM

Just having a bit of fun with him - hence the "wink"

Posted by: Iommi Nov 17 2010, 10:06 PM

I understand that, but I wasn't think of you when I said it.

Posted by: GMR Nov 17 2010, 10:31 PM

You are very pedantic aren’t you User23? To be fair I suppose you and Billy have to be as it is part of your initiation into the world of councildom: i.e. drones.

Posted by: GMR Nov 17 2010, 10:32 PM

I am glad you get some fun on here

Posted by: On the edge Nov 17 2010, 10:36 PM

Yes it would be pretty boring if we were all the same!

Posted by: Iommi Nov 17 2010, 10:38 PM

I don't think you are being very fair at all. Quite rude in fact.

Posted by: GMR Nov 17 2010, 11:22 PM

Well, that is a good point... nevertheless, it's accurate.

Posted by: spartacus Nov 17 2010, 11:24 PM

I thought our Whitney sang about "One moment in Time..." One very specific moment..... ermm .. in time..

Rather than "At This Moment in Time"...


(I'm over here in pedant's corner....)

Posted by: Newbury Expat Nov 18 2010, 01:01 AM

Continuing this epic tangential arc we are currently negotiating......what about Engelbert Humperdink. Didn't he have a song called This Moment in Time

If we considered time as a capitalised entity (ie Time) and as such was a proxy for Existence, then there could be such a thing as a moment in Time (such as there is a point on a timeline).

One could further say there is a moment in History (with Time representing a similar concept), but then pedantically, one could also point out that you couldn't have a current moment in history as it couldn't be historic if it were current.

All that being said, my head hurts right now and there can be no ambiguity on this score (or is it that score )

Posted by: Bofem Nov 18 2010, 02:18 PM

This just in from Reuters.....

The Euro is rallying after days of uncertainty were ended, as Newbury's own Forest Gump finally revealed his thoughts on the impact of the Irish bailout in the Eurozone.

Currency markets steadied after a tumultuous week, as soon as the founder of Clay Hill Curmudgeon Fund Management LLP published his long-term forecast on economic and monetary union.

Speculation that GMR may have provided a well-balanced analysis of the Dublin crisis talks had made markets jittery all day, but calmed after he announced just after lunchtime: "Stupid is as stupid does."

Bank of England Governor Mervyn King added: "Someone give this guy a job in Canary Wharf now!

Posted by: Bloggo Nov 18 2010, 02:29 PM

Great, I 'll go and sell me Euros.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Nov 18 2010, 03:18 PM

The eventual and certain failure of the EURO is going to lead to protectionism and possible war. I don't think its a laughing matter - especially as we the TAXPAYER are going to be paying billions of pounds to Ireland to support their banking system so that OUR banks loans with them are honoured.

I still say we should let certain banks fail. The taxpayer pays and pays for the citys greed.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Nov 18 2010, 03:25 PM

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/18/this-is-the-way-the-euro-ends/

Posted by: Blake Nov 18 2010, 05:11 PM

The single currency was never going to work. Leading economist Milton Friedman warned that it would not work but the zealots went ahead anyway.

There was an epic and scandalous amount of "book-cooking" to get the weaker economies into the system. The chickens have come home to roost.

It is now becoming clearer day by day that the European Union is under the spell of cosmopolitan, internationalist wishful thinking. I think its days are numbered as it has always sought to bypass democracy and the voices of the people. That is always a recipe for disaster.

Posted by: Dodgys smarter brother. Nov 18 2010, 06:24 PM

Careful who you quote, because this guy also recommended the legalisation of marijuana and the abolition of medical licenses.

So presumably he'd have been happy to have undergone open heart surgery, by an unlicensed Doctor who was as high as a kite.

Posted by: blackdog Nov 18 2010, 06:45 PM

Meanwhile other zealots, inspired by Milton Frie,dman went ahead with the deregulation of the banking system ...

Posted by: Biker1 Nov 18 2010, 06:47 PM

Now call me a bit thick here (if you must!) but how is it that we are told that we, as a country, are alledgedly broke and need to make cuts in public spending that are going to affect us all, which I fully accept, but are then told that we are to bail out the Irish banks to the tune of billions of pounds (euros).
Can someone explain to me how we can suddenly afford it when supposedly broke?
Is it going to be to this country's benefit in the long run?

Posted by: Iommi Nov 18 2010, 07:08 PM

We are not technically broke. We just have a chuffing great debt and were spending more money than we were receiving.

Anyone remember when Labour 'reneged' on their paydeal with the Police, a few years ago. I think it was £30m or something. Seems a bit small-fry now, doesn't it?

Posted by: Biker1 Nov 18 2010, 07:21 PM

So how does bailing out Ireland help that?
Surely it makes the problem worse?

Posted by: NWNREADER Nov 18 2010, 07:25 PM

If you are thick for asking the question, please move over a bit so I can join you!!!

I rather suspect it is something to do with the EU arrangements - the countries that are not (yet) in the cack use their money to help out those that are. The hope being, I suppose, that it won't happen often (Hmmmmm), and that the newly enriched countries will then be able to pay their chums back before they go to the wall....

Happy to learn from anyone who really knows the answer

Posted by: JeffG Nov 18 2010, 07:34 PM

I think the idea is that we give them money so that they can pay us what they owe us.

Posted by: Iommi Nov 18 2010, 07:36 PM

I don't know, but I guess it is to save jobs and investments we have from going down the pan and then starting a chain reaction that would pull other countries with them, possibly even us.

Posted by: Dodgys smarter brother. Nov 18 2010, 07:43 PM

Bless you for your innocence. But don't believe the hype (as they say)

There is another way....and I quote from elsewhere..

Perhaps we could consider the proposal from the Glasgow Media Group for reducing the national debt AT A STROKE. Indeed, not just reducing it, but actually getting rid of it completely. Thus saving us from having to pay any more interest on it.

They've been all over the TV and radio etc explaining it, so I'm sorry if some of you have already heard it.

Full details can be found here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/aug/15/deficit-crisis-tax-the-rich

and from thier own website here: http://www.glasgowmediagroup.org/ (for those who want the full s.p.)

I'll try and condense it.

This country's total debt is just over £800 bn. (and it's that debt that we'll be paying trillions on in interest) If we could clear it, everything falls into place.

The total personal wealth in the UK is £9,000bn. It is mostly concentrated at the top, so the richest 10% own £4,000bn, with an average per household of £4m. The bottom half of our society own just 9%.

A 'one off' once only graduated tax of 20% on the top 10% of households would produce £800bn. (the magic figure please note) (And they don't even have to pay it all now).

Here's the best bit.......if the debt was cleared, interest rates and shares would begin to rise again and after a few years the 'super rich' would get their money back from their investments.

Simple. All it needs is POLITCAL will to do it, not a PARTY political will, but just a will.

Posted by: dannyboy Nov 19 2010, 11:02 AM

I think the bit But don't believe the hype applies to the second half of your post too.

Posted by: Dodgys smarter brother. Nov 19 2010, 03:50 PM

What part is hype then?

Posted by: GMR Nov 19 2010, 05:24 PM

Are you angling for a position so that you will be first in line for my autograph? At least you are on the right track.

Posted by: dannyboy Nov 19 2010, 05:41 PM

All of it.

Posted by: Dodgys smarter brother. Nov 19 2010, 07:39 PM

Aw bless....you probably think it is ..don't you?

Posted by: Berkshirelad Nov 19 2010, 08:16 PM

Alastair Darling committed the UK to supporting the EU Bailout Fund (to the tune of £7 Bn) during the time between the election and the Coalition government taking office.

Posted by: Biker1 Nov 19 2010, 10:51 PM

Why? (thick again! )

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Nov 22 2010, 02:44 PM

The total size of the bail-out package for Ireland is expected to be between 80bn and 90bn euros of which the UK will part with approximately 12bn.

Its about time that Banks and if necessary entire states are allowed to fail. It is economic madness to keep borrowing like this. Its coming.... economic and social meltdown and possibly war.

Posted by: Bloggo Nov 22 2010, 02:50 PM

What seems crazy to me is that the UK is already in debt and instigating swinging cuts to social services across the board yet we are giving money that we don't have, ie we have to borrow it, even though we are not in the euro zone. Why is Ireland's bad debts our problem. We don't have the money to do this and why should we?

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Nov 22 2010, 02:54 PM

Beacuse "just" the UK banks are owed £150 Billion by Ireland. If the Irish state fails and defaults on its debts then our banks fail as well.

All we are doing though is putting a sticking plaster over an arterial bleed. The end result will be the same. Ireland will run out of money.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Nov 22 2010, 03:00 PM

http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/71677,business,100000-expected-to-flee-ireland-economic-crisis-

....And expect to be hear lots of Southern Irish tones in the UK soon.

Posted by: Bloggo Nov 22 2010, 03:11 PM

You couldn't make it up could you. How can one institution let another borrow £150bn without any control or guarantee? Crazy!!!!

Posted by: Jayjay Nov 22 2010, 03:53 PM

Ireland are in this mess due partly to the cut quick and deep policies they implemented.

Posted by: Iommi Nov 22 2010, 05:07 PM

Would you explain why?

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Nov 22 2010, 05:12 PM

Is JayJay actually Richard Garvie Mark 2?

Posted by: Iommi Nov 22 2010, 06:35 PM

Yes, the way I see it, when the decision was made to cut 'deep and quick' it was so that they were not hit by the 'on-coming train'.

Posted by: blackdog Nov 22 2010, 06:42 PM

Ireland are in the mess they are in because the 'markets' have decided they are in a mess.

If only one could feel that the 'markets' had a clue and weren't just a bunch of dealers and computers responding to each others panic with little understanding of why. All this money being pumped into the various economies is going into someone's pockets - whose?

Posted by: Cognosco Nov 22 2010, 06:59 PM

We know who's pockets it is coming out of though don't we? The poor old British taxpayer again. A case of the banking world saying heads we win tails you lose???

Posted by: GMR Nov 22 2010, 07:25 PM

Ireland are in a mess because they borrowed too much in the first place, and now Europe, IMF and Britain will have to bail them out.

Posted by: Iommi Nov 22 2010, 07:33 PM

You'd think that the EU was formed to prevent this sort of thing happening, yet it seems they are impotent; just a bunch of failed politicians with little clue. This all could easily become one big fubar state.

Posted by: Biker1 Nov 22 2010, 08:01 PM

Do you vote UKIP Iommi?
If not - you should.

Posted by: Iommi Nov 22 2010, 08:07 PM

I find myself divided on the issue: on one hand I see the need for a 'superstate', but I have no faith in the people that form the union.

Posted by: Berkshirelad Nov 22 2010, 08:58 PM

One of the main reasons that Eire got into deep trouble is because it borrowed too much and since its interest rate was decided centrally to suit the Franco-German bloc, they had no sovereign power to increase interest rates to dampen borrowing.

This is what has happened in all of the PIIGS economies

Posted by: GMR Nov 22 2010, 10:34 PM

To be honest that was predictable from the beginning.

Posted by: Sandy77 Nov 23 2010, 10:16 PM

Really? I seem to have missed out on that. Maybe you should try getting to know some of us before making such sweeping statements.

Posted by: GMR Nov 23 2010, 10:27 PM

And maybe you should liven up a bit and try to understand when somebody is joking. Or is that part of your initiation into the world of WBC: they remove your humour glands?

Posted by: Sandy77 Nov 23 2010, 10:39 PM

Having just read through some of your recent posts, I can see it's a waste of time trying to have an intelligent conversation with you.

Posted by: GMR Nov 23 2010, 10:40 PM

Likewise. By the way; welcome to the forum.

Posted by: Iommi Nov 23 2010, 10:46 PM

You being a joke doesn't necessarily mean you write funny things.

Posted by: GMR Nov 23 2010, 10:48 PM

I could have written that about you; are you now pinching my lines?

Posted by: Iommi Nov 23 2010, 10:49 PM

Only if you write them first.

Posted by: GMR Nov 23 2010, 10:52 PM

I normally do

Posted by: Richard Garvie Nov 24 2010, 08:13 AM

I too ask how we can now afford this loan to Ireland when we were told we chad no money left. It's not like any of the coalition measures have kicked in yet?

Posted by: Iommi Nov 24 2010, 11:31 AM

I suspect it is because we can't afford not to.

Posted by: Bloggo Nov 24 2010, 11:41 AM

Yes, for both financial and political reasons.
Ironic though isn't it that when the chips are down all of these regions that have demanded independence from England come scurrying back with their hand out.

Posted by: Simon Kirby Nov 24 2010, 11:48 AM

Yeah, that's right, just like America in '41. Ingrates.

Posted by: Bloggo Nov 24 2010, 11:54 AM

Yes, point taken.

Posted by: Bill1 Nov 24 2010, 01:20 PM

Sandy77, you didn't take long to reach that conclusion

Gentetically Modified Rubbish - Was that funny enough for you?

Posted by: Bofem Nov 24 2010, 01:29 PM

Sky Breaking News: Tensions mounted further between North and South Korea this morning after international macro-economics expert TallDarkAndHandsome was mistakenly dispatched to the troubled border.

TallDarkAndHandsome of Newbury was due in Geneva to advise the IMF of the implications of the Irish bailout when the diplomatic corp whisked him to Seoul after he was wrongly thought to be a peace envoy.

TDH was then put in charge of the South's counter-propaganda tannoy system, where he explained how an incident with his in-flight coffee would cause armageddon. "You people wouldn't understand....I asked for decaff, and they brought me normal. I told them it was madness, but they wouldn't listen. Now comrades, you have your justification to attack the South."

As Pyongyang scrambled a fleet of jets, TDH was quickly taken off air....more later.

Posted by: GMR Nov 24 2010, 05:35 PM

Sandy, yoursel, user23 and Iommi seem to be part of the WBC bully boys.

Posted by: Jayjay Nov 24 2010, 05:47 PM

If we have to bail Ireland out why dont we use the money set aside for foreign aid?

Posted by: Sandy77 Nov 24 2010, 07:00 PM

So a personal attack by you is excused as 'a joke', but if I reply it's classed as bullying. What a strange outlook on life you must have.

Posted by: user23 Nov 24 2010, 07:09 PM

Bizarre, given I've had him on Ignore for a year or so and haven't replied to him in this time.

Posted by: Iommi Nov 25 2010, 01:34 AM

What I have heard is that we don't have it either, but our credit rating is better than Ireland, so we will borrow the money at a more favourable rate, then lend the money to Ireland at a higher rate than we pay - allegedly.