Diane Abbott, should she walk? Options

[Vodabury]

Just read Rod Liddle's comment on this in the Times.

I concur...

Agree, in general he has a good take on it!

Rgds

[Squelchy]

Ah yes, Rod Liddle, he's the man:

The presenter of "Immigration Is A Time Bomb"

In November 2009, for The Spectator website, he offered "a quick update on what the Muslim savages are up to."

In December 2009, on his Spectator blog, Liddle referred to two black music producers, Brandon Jolie and Kingsley Ogundele, who had plotted to kill Jolie's 15-year-old pregnant girlfriend, as "human filth" and said the incident was not an anomaly. He continued:

"The overwhelming majority of street crime, knife crime, gun crime, robbery and crimes of sexual violence in London is carried out by young men from the African-Caribbean community. Of course, in return, we have rap music, goat curry and a far more vibrant and diverse understanding of cultures which were once alien to us. For which, many thanks."

When he was accused of racism, Liddle said he was instead engaging in a debate about multiculturalism. In March 2010 the Press Complaints Commission (PCC) upheld a complaint against Liddle, who became the first journalist to be censured over the contents of a blog, because he had not been able to prove his claim about the crime statistics. After the publication of London crime figures in June 2010, The Sunday Telegraph suggested Liddle was largely right on some of his claims, but that he was probably wrong on his claims about knife crimes and violent sex crimes.

In January 2010, the Mail on Sunday and The Observer drew attention to allegedly racist and misogynist comments posted under the username "monkeymfc"—a name Liddle has used—on Millwall Online, a fan club web forum with no official connection to the Millwall Football Club. Liddle at first attributed some of the comments to opposition fans logging in under his name to embarrass him. He later admitted he had written some of the posts that were being criticized, including one in support of the BNP excluding Black and Asian people from the party. Another post, in which he joked about not being able to smoke at Auschwitz, led to his being forced to apologise in The Jewish Chronicle.

In 2004 Liddle then 44 moved in with Alicia Monckton, a 22-year-old receptionist at The Spectator. It transpired that he had cut his honeymoon with new wife Rachel Royce short so that he could be with Monckton. On 5 May 2005, he was arrested for common assault against Monckton, who was 20 weeks pregnant at the time. He admitted the offence and accepted a police caution.

Then three days after the start of the Stephen Lawrence trial the Spectator published an article by Liddle which apparently had the potential to undermine it, and Liddle may yet face trial for Contempt of Court.

It is a matter of public record that the piece was considered problematic enough for trial judge Justice Treacy to interrupt proceedings on 7 November in order to ask the jurors whether or not they had read it. When they said they had not, he ordered them to avoid it and referred the matter to Attorney General Dominic Grieve. The issue is currently being considered by the Director of Public Prosecutions.

So, Liddle seems exactly like the type of bloke most of us would cross the road to try and avoid. Unless of course, he panders to ones own prejudices, thus seeming to validate them, in which case doubtless he'll be 'spot on'.
You pays yer money and you takes yer choice.

[Roost]

Nicely put o Squelchy one.

However, as I originally said

"for once he makes sense".

Nowhere did I suggest that I agreed with him, his politics or even his existence.

Just suggested that he appeared to have a good take on this one particular subject.

[Vodabury]

You pays yer money and you takes yer choice.

Not really. I can choose whether or not to buy The Sunday Times; I am compelled by law to pay my BBC licence fee - Auntie sacked Mr Liddle but still employs Ms Abbott

Both Mr Liddle and Ms Abbott are members of the same political party and therefore must (at least financially) support the same cause?

You mention Mr Liddle's marital and relationship problems, thank you. This is obvioulsy relevant. Can you help us with knowing about Ms Abbott and her family problems?

Rod Liddle gave me a chuckle this morning, his take on the subject was amusing and I wonder if you understood what he was really saying before "cutting 'n pasting" your material. Thanks.

[x2lls]

Just read Rod Liddle's comment on this in the Times.

I concur, for once he makes sense!!

Is there a link?

[Squelchy]

"You pays yer money and you takes yer choice"

Not really. I can choose whether or not to buy The Sunday Times; I am compelled by law to pay my BBC licence fee

Only if someone's forcing you to have a broadcast receiver.

Interesting how defensive some people quickly become. (Just an observation, present company excepted of course)

[Strafin]

Sadly not as the times charge £2 to read an article, or £2 to read one article.

[Vodabury]

Interesting how defensive some people quickly become.

Squelchy, I agree.

I also thought your (long) post very defensive. Mr Liddle does not please you, I see. Is there any dirt on Ms Abbott you can find and likewise post on here?

[Rusty Bullet]

Interesting how defensive some people quickly become.

Squelchy, I agree.

I also thought your (long) post very defensive. Mr Liddle does not please you, I see. Is there any dirt on Ms Abbott you can find and likewise post on here?

I didn't find it defensive. I found it helpful. You can only judge a horse by the races it's run after all. None of this struck me as being 'dirt' on Mr Liddle just a bit of background to where he's coming from.

[Vodabury]

......just a bit of background to where he's coming from.

...in saying that Diane Abbott had a (sort of) point in some of what she said, was a good black role model and one of the few principled politicians of the left?!

(in the article Roost refers to, Liddle does not simply attack Abbott as some seem, or wish, to think. He makes an observation of the PC mess we now have for a society and sees the irony in an unfortunate situation).

[Bloggo]

...in saying that Diane Abbott had a (sort of) point in some of what she said, was a good black role model and one of the few principled politicians of the left?!

Principled? Can you say that about a person who encourages her constituents to send their children to the local comprehensive and then sends her own to private school to avoid them falling in with the wrong sort.
It may have been the right decision, but principled?

[Vodabury]

Principled? Can you say that about a person who encourages her constituents to send their children to the local comprehensive and then sends her own to private school to avoid them falling in with the wrong sort.
It may have been the right decision, but principled?

Completely take your point. I agree Abbott is a hypocrite. Maybe Liddle has no problem with this!

[Bloggo]

Completely take your point. I agree Abbott is a hypocrite.

Quite and given her history of inflamatory predudiced statements ("black mothers being better than white ones") and this particular offensive remark I believe this arrogant, egotistical person should have been asked to resign. People who make their living in the public domain should know how to conduct themselves.

[FactFile]

Interesting quote from the Daily Mail two days ago (which seems to be almost 'The Bible' for the more eye-swiveling posters on here).

‘Divide and rule’ was a central strategy of British imperial policy, under which different ethnic groups – including those in Ghana – were encouraged to use up their energies fighting among themselves, rather than plotting to overthrow their colonial masters.


So had she used the word(s) 'British Imperial' or 'colonial masters' she'd have been ok.

and 'Bloggo'? since you claim she used that 'white v black mums' statement, perhaps you could link us to the actual quote itself that you claim she used? You know, just for accuracy's sake. Rather than something Andrew Neil said.

[Andy Capp]

Interesting quote from the Daily Mail two days ago (which seems to be almost 'The Bible' for the more eye-swiveling posters on here).

‘Divide and rule’ was a central strategy of British imperial policy, under which different ethnic groups – including those in Ghana – were encouraged to use up their energies fighting among themselves, rather than plotting to overthrow their colonial masters.


So had she used the word(s) 'British Imperial' or 'colonial masters' she'd have been ok.

and 'Bloggo'? since you claim she used that 'white v black mums' statement, perhaps you could link us to the actual quote itself that you claim she used? You know, just for accuracy's sake. Rather than something Andrew Neil said.

"West Indian mums will go to the wall for their children."
http://news.sky.com/home/politics/article/16143154

When she was asked to clarify, she refused.

[FactFile]

"West Indian mums will go to the wall for their children."

Yes. we know that one thank you.

But Bloggo actually quoted "black mothers being better than white ones" (his quote marks) and he / she said that was a "particular offensive remark".

However, you and I both know Abbott never actually used that phrase. So for Bloggo to actually quote it and then say it's offensive is bizarre. I just wanted to give him / her a chance to back up their quote and not look silly.

It's one of those things where people's unconscious prejudices bubble up isn't it? People are automatically confusing 'West Indian' with 'Black' which is not necessarily the case. There are many white people living in the Windies, second or third generation in some cases, who seem to have been forgotten. Plus, in the race to condemn it seems to have been overlooked that she never said Whites aren't good mothers.

Didn't someone suggest that this forum needed more 'balance' and 'accuracy'?

[Andy Capp]

It's one of those things where people's unconscious prejudices bubble up isn't it? People are automatically confusing 'West Indian' with 'Black' which is not necessarily the case. There are many white people living in the Windies, second or third generation in some cases, who seem to have been forgotten. Plus, in the race to condemn it seems to have been overlooked that she never said Whites aren't good mothers.

I have no doubt what Ms Abbott meant. She had an opportunity to clarify, but refused to discuss it. I have no problem with what she says, but only that she has these views and holds political office.

[Bloggo]

Yes. we know that one thank you.

But Bloggo actually quoted "black mothers being better than white ones" (his quote marks) and he / she said that was a "particular offensive remark".

However, you and I both know Abbott never actually used that phrase. So for Bloggo to actually quote it and then say it's offensive is bizarre. I just wanted to give him / her a chance to back up their quote and not look silly.

It's one of those things where people's unconscious prejudices bubble up isn't it? People are automatically confusing 'West Indian' with 'Black' which is not necessarily the case. There are many white people living in the Windies, second or third generation in some cases, who seem to have been forgotten. Plus, in the race to condemn it seems to have been overlooked that she never said Whites aren't good mothers.

Didn't someone suggest that this forum needed more 'balance' and 'accuracy'?

You're quite right in the Abbott did not actually make that statement and it was Neil who suggested it to her. So I was wrong.
However she declined to deny the meaning of what was put to her when confronted with it which for someone in her position was, in my opinion, a mistake and suggested that she was in agreement with it.

[Vodabury]

Interesting quote from the Daily Mail two days ago (which seems to be almost 'The Bible' for the more eye-swiveling posters on here)....

Perhaps you can explain what you mean by The Daily Mail being the Bible for "eye-swiveling" posters on here? Was it not The Daily Mail that did more than any other newspaper to keep the pressure on over the Lawrence murder - eventually resulting in the succesful recent conviction of two racist killers?

[x2lls]

Perhaps you can explain what you mean by The Daily Mail being the Bible for "eye-swiveling" posters on here? Was it not The Daily Mail that did more than any other newspaper to keep the pressure on over the Lawrence murder - eventually resulting in the succesful recent conviction of two racist killers?

Good point
Unfortunately, there are too many that suffer from media snobbery. I fail to see how a quote from a newspaper actually defines your whole perspective.