Ken Clarke says riots 'legacy of broken penal system' Options

[Phil_D11102]

You gotta love this:

Almost three quarters of those aged over 18 who were charged over the riots had a prior conviction, he added.

Mr Clarke argued that this made his efforts to reform the penal system and cut reoffending even more important.

The government is piloting payment-by-results schemes for private firms who successfully rehabilitate offenders

First question: did those who have a prior conviction actually go to jail, or did they do community service? If they did go the jail, was their time there acutally long enough to try to put them back on the straight and narrow?

Second question: If your not going to prison, what are you going to reform?

Third question: Does the private firm get part payment if reoffender does get arrested for a minor offence?

This is a joke. Those who scoff the idea of putting people into a national service where some sort of discipline and order can be introduced into what seems to be alot of lives will hopefully see that if you change the behaviour while people are young, they will hopefully be better citizens.

[Andy Capp]

First question: did those who have a prior conviction actually go to jail, or did they do community service? If they did go the jail, was their time there acutally long enough to try to put them back on the straight and narrow?

Obviously not.

Second question: If your not going to prison, what are you going to reform?

???????????

Third question: Does the private firm get part payment if reoffender does get arrested for a minor offence?

I'd imagine it'd be for convictions.

is is a joke. Those who scoff the idea of putting people into a national service where some sort of discipline and order can be introduced into what seems to be alot of lives will hopefully see that if you change the behaviour while people are young, they will hopefully be better citizens.

I'm sorry but this sentence is barely intelligible, however; is it proven that NS works?

[Vodabury]

You gotta love this:

You are starting a new thread with what looks like a quote from another thread. Whom are you quoting?

[Phil_D11102]

You are starting a new thread with what looks like a quote from another thread. Whom are you quoting?

Ken Clarke

What was the other thread?

This is a joke. Those who scoff the idea of putting people into a national service where some sort of discipline and order can be introduced into what seems to be alot of lives will hopefully see that if you change the behaviour while people are young, they will hopefully be better citizens.

I'm sorry but this sentence is barely intelligible, however; is it proven that NS works?

Maybe the reader doesn't understand that if you don't set boundaries and introduce discipline into people while they are young, there is a very good chance that they may become over indulgent spoiled brats. What then will they be like as adults?

[Bloggo]

I understand what you are saying Phil and I am delighted to see that this government is also coming around to agreeing that there is a long term problem that has to be resolved as soon as possible.
I can't imagine why anyone would disagree with this but I await to be proved wrong.

[Andy Capp]

Maybe the reader doesn't understand that if you don't set boundaries and introduce discipline into people while they are young, there is a very good chance that they may become over indulgent spoiled brats. What then will they be like as adults?

Your arguments are very difficult to decipher sometimes.

1. When is the most influential time of a persons development? The first 3 years, the first 16 years? When would NS start? At 16?
2. Can you confirm that NS is proven to create better behaved young adults? Didn't all those criminals in the 50s do NS?

[Andy Capp]

I can't imagine why anyone would disagree with this but I await to be proved wrong.

Disagree with what?

[Vodabury]

Ken Clarke

What was the other thread?

Never mind. Have a good discussion.

[Phil_D11102]

Your arguments are very difficult to decipher sometimes.

1. When is the most influential time of a persons development? The first 3 years, the first 16 years? When would NS start? At 16?
2. Can you confirm that NS is proven to create better behaved young adults? Didn't all those criminals in the 50s do NS?

Development happens all through life, but late adolescence (16-19) is when you start to find your role and sense of self. It's during this period when boundaries are really tested. I am sure that criminals served in the national service in the conventional sense, but a new national service is what is needed.

[Andy Capp]

Development happens all through life, but late adolescence (16-19) is when you start to find your role and sense of self. It's during this period when boundaries are really tested. I am sure that criminals served in the national service in the conventional sense, but a new national service is what is needed.

Has it been proven that NS breeds better behaved people?

[NWNREADER]

Has it been proven that NS breeds better behaved people?

I rather suspect breeding is not one of the NS activities in plan.

There was a chap some years ago who had the idea of 'breeding camps' where fine specimens of male and female citizenry were encouraged to get it together to produce exemplary young people for the future benefit of society. Haven't heard of him for a while.......

[Andy Capp]

I rather suspect breeding is not one of the NS activities in plan.

There was a chap some years ago who had the idea of 'breeding camps' where fine specimens of male and female citizenry were encouraged to get it together to produce exemplary young people for the future benefit of society. Haven't heard of him for a while.......

Breed: To rear or train; bring up: a writer who was bred in a seafaring culture.

[Guest_xjay1337_*]

The only penal system that Ken Clarke needs o be worrying about is the one in his trousers.

Everyone said people would be evicted from council houses and all of that kind of stuff, none of it materialised. Just human rights nonsense getting in the way.

In some ways (note I said some), I'd welcome the American justice system over here. Stern and if it was applied in Britain, I'm sure crime would fall by a third. Failing that, just get Judge Judy.

[Bloggo]

Has it been proven that NS breeds better behaved people?

Of course not, it's a personal opinion much like the unstantiated statements that many of us post including yourself.

[Andy Capp]

Everyone said people would be evicted from council houses and all of that kind of stuff, none of it materialised. Just human rights nonsense getting in the way.

Sounds good, but then where would they go?

[Guest_xjay1337_*]

Sounds good, but then where would they go?

Who cares?

Did the rioters care about the businesses they destroyed? Or the homes? Where will those people go? These people have had their homes burned down, some their businesses too. They will be tens if not thousands of pounds worse off in the long run, not to mention the immediate short term loss of revenue and added stress.

They are the people who need and deserve justice.

The criminals have made their bed out of shattered glass but constantly get offered one of those fancy space-foam mattresses. It's wrong and needs to change.

[Andy Capp]

Who cares?

Did the rioters care about the businesses they destroyed? Or the homes? Where will those people go? These people have had their homes burned down, some their businesses too. They will be tens if not thousands of pounds worse off in the long run, not to mention the immediate short term loss of revenue and added stress.

They are the people who need and deserve justice.

The criminals have made their bed out of shattered glass but constantly get offered one of those fancy space-foam mattresses. It's wrong and needs to change.

You obviously have not thought this through. These homeless people have to go somewhere, otherwise they form ghetto gangs and go thieving and robbing (all year round as opposed to the once every 20 years or so), thus you haven't solved the problem you thought you had.

[Bloggo]

Who cares?

Did the rioters care about the businesses they destroyed? Or the homes? Where will those people go? These people have had their homes burned down, some their businesses too. They will be tens if not thousands of pounds worse off in the long run, not to mention the immediate short term loss of revenue and added stress.

They are the people who need and deserve justice.

The criminals have made their bed out of shattered glass but constantly get offered one of those fancy space-foam mattresses. It's wrong and needs to change.

Hear hear.

[Andy Capp]

Hear hear.

Please see my previous reply.

[Bloggo]

Please see my previous reply.

I have.
You lock offenders away. You lock repeat offenders away for a longer period. You make them work and you make them pay back their debt to the rest of society.
You do not treat crime of any sort with leniency as this is taken advantage of. Examples of this are reported everyday. It is time to get tough on crime.