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Posted by: Biker1 Jun 8 2010, 09:56 PM

Just been up to Stafford today to move my son down from university and paid 113.9 per litre in a local petrol station.

The local ASDA was the same price.

119.9 is the cheapest I can find it locally.

Why the marked difference between them & us?

Is it something to do with the transport of the stuff or just a measure of the local cost of living?

Whatever it is we are loosing out.

Posted by: Jayjay Jun 8 2010, 10:02 PM

Followed the petrol tanker from Sainsburys Newbury to Sainsburys Calcot. Newbury is far dearer than Calcot yet from the same tanker. Beer is far cheaper in the Midlands than Newbury yet it is brewed in Reading.

Posted by: Blake Jun 9 2010, 11:15 AM

Makes no sense does it...

It's clear we are being ripped off. Boycott them. I buy my gas when I drive to Reading or elsewhere.

Posted by: oldharry Jun 9 2010, 11:31 AM

On 30 May it was 115.9 at Morrisons in Warminster.


Or LOSING out, to use correct English.

Posted by: gel Jun 9 2010, 12:21 PM

Remarkable (Unleaded) uniformity in Newbury; Wantage Sainsbury's is often cheaper than Newbury, despite Wantage having little competition.

Chieveley Motor Company Thatcham 5.46 miles 119.9p 08-06-2010
Shell Newbury Newbury 5.88 miles 119.9p 07-06-2010

Sainsburys Newbury Newbury 6.76 miles 119.9p 08-06-2010
Tesco Newbury Extra Newbury 7.79 miles 119.9p 08-06-2010

Falkland Service Station Newbury 7.81 miles 119.9p 08-06-2010
Sainsburys Wantage Wantage 8.84 miles 119.9p 08-06-2010

Bp Georgetown Didcot 9.73 miles 119.9p 08-06-2010
Shell Georgetown Didcot 9.98 miles 119.9p 07-06-2010

Berkshire Downs Filling Station Didcot 5.53 miles 120.9p 08-06-2010
Bellingers Service Station Wantage 9.69 miles 120.9p

Sainsburys Oxford £1.179
Asda Fareham & Eastleigh (Near Fawley refinery) £1.139

Posted by: Berkshirelad Jun 9 2010, 02:45 PM

However (and I accept that it doesn't cover all of the difference), the tanker has to travel further from the refinery. AIUI, Sainsbury's petrol comes from Essex, not Fawley.

One of the reasons that motorway fuel is so expensive is that to deliver it to a motorway service area (MSA) involves not only sending the tanker and driver along the motorway to the MSA, but also onto at least the next junction to get back.

The main brewery in Reading (Courage/Fosters) closed months ago. The majority of beer is brewed in the Midlands - Burton and Northampton.

Posted by: Newburymafia Jun 9 2010, 04:14 PM

I think that it's a bit laughable that £1.13 is considered the cheap option!

Posted by: dannyboy Jun 9 2010, 09:23 PM

Cripes & I thought it was the petrol companies exploiting their captive market!

Posted by: Rachel Jun 9 2010, 09:39 PM

Swindon is always cheaper, has been 113.9p for a fortnight in Asda, I pressumed that it was due to the refinery location (Bristol???) but also the competition too.

Posted by: Biker1 Jun 10 2010, 10:16 AM

Here we go again ANOTHER grammar / spelling correcter!

Posted by: Biker1 Jun 10 2010, 10:17 AM

I didn't say it was cheap just noted the price difference.

£113.9 is still not cheap.

Will be even more when the next duty rise and VAT increase is added.

Posted by: misc Jun 10 2010, 10:49 AM

corrector

Posted by: Biker1 Jun 10 2010, 11:19 AM

I KNEW someone would take the bait!

Posted by: JeffG Jun 10 2010, 12:15 PM

Never mind. I don't think we have a big problem. This from another forum:

Posted by: oldharry Jun 10 2010, 05:45 PM

It is more a correction of usage than grammar or spelling. Lose and loose have different meanings, as you will find out if you consult a dictionary.

Posted by: Iommi Jun 10 2010, 06:30 PM

It is a spelling error (this can be proven by the fact you knew what word should have been used) and I think picking people up on them is one of the most tedious things people can do, on a voluntary Internet forum. Not to mention arrogant and rude.

Posted by: Darren Jun 10 2010, 07:58 PM

Morrisons in Reading, today was £113.9

Posted by: Strafin Jun 10 2010, 09:25 PM

If people don't spell properly and use good grammar once or twice I don't care. If it becomes a regular thing I take the poster much less seriously.

Posted by: Biker1 Jun 10 2010, 10:44 PM

Agreade!

If all grammatical errors were picked up on then it would become VERY tedious.
(Usually typos rather than a show of ignorance.)

Back to the subject - a big difference in fuel price even 18 miles apart.

I wonder why this is - perhaps we need more competition in Newbury?

6p a litre difference might not seem much but it soon adds up.

Posted by: JeffG Jun 11 2010, 09:41 AM

Americans pay roughly 50p per litre. And then they have the temerity to go and wreck BP's share price which affects all our pension funds, conveniently ignoring the fact it was an oil rig belonging to an American company staffed by Americans that blew up in the first place. I think Halliburton was in there somewhere, too.

Posted by: JMH Jun 11 2010, 10:17 AM

I think we all also, have to appreciate the fact that maybe not all forum members are British born and bred?

Posted by: Andy1 Jun 11 2010, 10:21 AM

That'll help in finding the best local petrol prices

Posted by: dannyboy Jun 11 2010, 10:50 AM

It is a rouse to let American companies get their hands on BP's US oil & gas reserves.

There is a lot more going on than mere oil in the ocean.

Posted by: oldharry Jun 11 2010, 11:55 AM

Hear, hear.

Posted by: Iommi Jun 11 2010, 12:11 PM

That's your prerogative, for me, I'd rather listen to the message than worry that someone might have made a typing error, or simply can't spell. As has already been suggested, there might be people who are not English. There could also be people who have learning difficulties.

A Headmaster of mine was once talking to our assembly. He described how he had received a letter that was poorly written and was hard to understand. At some point after, he got to meet this person and discovered that the person who wrote the letter was blind. Our Headmaster described how disappointed he was with himself that he didn't initially give this person the benefit of the doubt.

At the end of the day we all have different abilities and we should be more considerate of one another if we are to consider ourselves civilised.

Fair enough, correct someone out of courtesy, but there is no need for rudeness. I find life can be unforgiving to the pompous.

Posted by: JeffG Jun 11 2010, 01:21 PM

Without prolonging this too much, someone who learnt English as a foreign language is far less likely to make the sort of errors we have been talking about, so that's not a real argument.

Posted by: Iommi Jun 11 2010, 02:20 PM

So you will anyway!

Anyway, I think your argument is merely supposition, which I believe invalidates your claim that my argument is not 'real' - whatever that means in English.

I still believe, however, an open Internet forum is not a place for grammar snobbery. I also have no doubt that there would be scholars in the art of 'correct' English usage, that could pick holes in anyone that posts here.

Posted by: JeffG Jun 11 2010, 07:41 PM

I fully agree with you.

See the quote in my post #14 for a prime example of this

Posted by: Iommi Jun 11 2010, 07:45 PM

That is a particularly good example!

Posted by: Biker1 Oct 5 2011, 09:28 PM

Thought I would raise this one again as it still seems to be an issue locally.

Had cause to travel to Somerset today and...........

Unleaded Tesco Weston-Super-Mare.......£130.9 per litre

Unleaded Tesco Newbury.......................£135.9 per litre!

Newburians are being scammed once again!!

Posted by: GrumblingAgain Oct 6 2011, 07:41 AM

Isn't it about time they ditched the stupid .9 pricing and indeed pricing in pennies (even though Biker1 seems to have found the most expensive petrol in the world ) ?

It fools no one into thinking they are getting a bargain, besides, I have never seen a price set at .2 or .6 or whatever, it's always .9.

Petrol companies, why not be honest and just say it's £1.31 or £1.36 a litre to quote the intended pricing above.

Posted by: Biker1 Oct 6 2011, 08:28 AM

Ooops yes , sorry - well you all know what I mean!
I forgot you need 2 decimal points to quote petrol prices.

Posted by: Ron Oct 6 2011, 09:53 AM

You don't have to go as far as Somerset. It was 5p a litre cheaper in Swindon than in Newbury.

Posted by: JeffG Oct 6 2011, 11:20 AM

No you don't.

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 6 2011, 12:01 PM

Only if you use pounds sterling as units!

130p = £1.30

Posted by: JeffG Oct 6 2011, 01:07 PM

You still can't have two decimal points!

Posted by: Roost Oct 6 2011, 02:49 PM

You can,

but it may be wrong to do so!

Posted by: Strafin Oct 6 2011, 03:31 PM

I think you are talking about decimal places, not decimal points.

Posted by: xjay1337 Oct 6 2011, 11:27 PM

Fuel prices vary hugely for no reason that I can see. In Reading/Theale, Petrol from a big supermarket chain or Shell near J13 of the M4 is something like £1.369, I saw in Kent diesel for £1.329!!!! However in Newbury is is often hovering just above the £1.40 mark!

I agree about removing the ".9", however you can guarantee it will be rounded up so £1.399 will be £1.40. However I'd be interested in what would happen if you put exactly 1 litre of fuel into your car. Would you be expected to give them nine-tenths of a penny or would it be "rounded up" anyway......

Posted by: Biker1 Oct 7 2011, 04:41 PM

£1.30.9per litre
How many is that??
(Or was Grumbling Again wrong to correct me and I was right all along?)
(Or should it be 130.9p per litre?)

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 7 2011, 04:52 PM

As the unit is pounds sterling, it would be: £1.309
In pence it would be: 130.9p

Posted by: Biker1 Oct 7 2011, 04:56 PM

Got it!

Cheers.

(I did get my "O" Level maths!! )

Posted by: JeffG Oct 8 2011, 07:05 PM

I think it just lapsed!

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 8 2011, 07:36 PM

I didn't!

Posted by: On the edge Oct 8 2011, 07:39 PM

Join the club. I don't even think I could do it today - it looks even harder!

Posted by: Biker1 Oct 9 2011, 07:37 PM

Harder today? You must be joking!

Posted by: JeffG Oct 10 2011, 03:23 PM

Well, I did Pure Maths and Applied Maths (separate subjects) at A level many years ago, and I still had problems with a few of http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesize/maths/mocks/mathsmockf1_nocalc.pdf. I haven't a clue what the difference between mode and median is, for example.

Not saying it's easier or harder - just different. How did you get on?

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 10 2011, 03:34 PM

I believe mode means most frequently occurring and median means the middle value if all values were lined up in order.

b £5
c £7.5

Posted by: JeffG Oct 10 2011, 06:32 PM

Thanks. I really should look it up. Believe it or not, statistics wasn't in the syllabus when I took maths. And don't get me started about matrices, which it seems every primary school kid knows about these days. (Well maybe I exaggerate a bit...)

Posted by: On the edge Oct 10 2011, 07:56 PM

Aw come on, Andy, that's letting the side down! Mode is a very small ladies dress shop and Median is a TV station for people with dyslexia.

Posted by: JMH Oct 11 2011, 12:54 PM

Clearly whoever submitted this paper agreed with you!!


(Hoping attachment shows!!)

Posted by: Biker1 Oct 11 2011, 08:31 PM

Crap maths apart and back to the point, why are petrol prices so much more expensive in and around Newbury compared with much of the rest of the country?

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 11 2011, 09:14 PM

I have noticed the petrol stations along the A4 have been cheaper than Tesco and Sainsbury's lately.

Posted by: dannyboy Oct 11 2011, 10:37 PM

That goes in cycles. A cartel methinks.....

Posted by: xjay1337 Oct 12 2011, 11:24 AM

Punishment of the middle classes.

Posted by: Gumbo Nov 23 2011, 11:39 AM

Do you ever get the feeling this question is getting ignored? Really really does annoy me. I was in Sussex at the weekend and the average price down there was £1.30 compared to the £1.35 we get stung for. Personally I would expect our local MP to be working on this on behalf of his constituents to ensure we are not being ripped off!

Posted by: Andy Capp Nov 23 2011, 11:53 AM

We get charged what they can get away with. I've noticed recently that the petrol stations on the A4 are either cheaper or the same as Tesco, Sainsbury's, etc. They usually are a penny or two more.

Posted by: Bloggo Nov 23 2011, 12:14 PM

The reality is that they can charge what they like and we will pay or not use our cars so much.
Either way the government wins.
More cars on the road=more tax.
Less cars on the road= less road maintenance/building.
Bad news is that you can bet that the price will be going up again soon.

Posted by: Berkshirelad Nov 23 2011, 05:03 PM

I noticed that in the last couple of days Tesco and Sainsbury's in Newbury at 134.9; Chieveley Service Station is 133'9 and Morrisons in Reading is 128.9 !

Posted by: Biker1 May 5 2012, 05:21 PM

Thought I'd update on this just out of interest as we in Newbury still seem to be paying over the odds..........

High Wycombe today litre of diesel 141.9p

Newbury today litre of diesel 146.9p

Posted by: Newbelly May 5 2012, 05:29 PM

136.9p for diesel? Which garage?

I paid more than that last time I filled up.

Posted by: Ron May 5 2012, 05:29 PM

Hey! Where do you get diesel for 136.9p per litre?

Posted by: Biker1 May 5 2012, 05:52 PM

Sorry, edited!!!

Posted by: Newbelly May 5 2012, 06:00 PM

Thank you. I thought I was going mad there for a moment!

Posted by: NWNREADER May 5 2012, 07:10 PM

The change doesn't mean you are not......

That Wycombe price will be for the ASDA just of the M40 at Handy Cross....... Still not worth the drive, even to
http://storelocator.asda.com/store/lower-earley.html

Posted by: gel May 5 2012, 07:12 PM

Oddly Wantage with very few stations is cheaper for Diesel than Newbury:


Sainsburys Wantage
Limborough Road, Wantage, Oxfordshire, OX12 9AJ

14.82 miles

143.9p

May 3rd

Broadway Motors (wantage) Ltd
Wallingford Street, Wantage, Oxfordshire, OX12 8BB

14.52 miles

145.9p

May 3rd

Sainsburys Newbury
Kings Road, Newbury, Berkshire, RG14 5RB

0.49 miles

146.9p

May 3rd

A34 Shell Tothill Service Area
Newbury Bypass, Newbury, Berkshire, RG20 9BX

3.94 miles

146.9p

May 2nd


Shell Newbury
Bath Road, Speen, Newbury, Berkshire, RG14 1QT

1.18 miles

147.9p

May 2nd

Tesco Newbury Extra
Pinchington Lane, Greenham, Newbury, Berkshire, RG14 7HU

1.36 miles

147.9p

May 3rd

Tesco Abingdon Extra
Marcham Road, Abingdon, Oxfordshire, OX14 1TZ

12.26 miles

145.9p

May 3rd

Asda High Wycombe

17.18 miles

142.7p

May 3rd



Morrisons High Wycombe
Bellfield Road, Temple End, High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, HP13 5XX

19.34 miles

142.9p

May

Posted by: NWNREADER May 5 2012, 07:13 PM

Must cost you a fortune driving round to check.......

Posted by: Newbelly May 5 2012, 08:30 PM

Thank you, gel - informative.

Posted by: gel May 5 2012, 08:33 PM

Why drive around, when you can check on the interweb?

Posted by: Biker1 May 5 2012, 10:36 PM

Actually it was an Esso garage on the A4010.
Not saying it's worth the drive obviously but why the difference?
Newbury seems to pay a premium.

Posted by: Andy Capp May 6 2012, 12:17 AM

Who needs to shop around when the town is full of humped back Tories and 'champagne' Liberal Democrats with loads of cash.

Posted by: NWNREADER May 6 2012, 01:10 AM

There have been many moans over the years that fuel in Newbury costs more than elsewhere. Whilst not totally true all the time, it is common for local fuel to be a couple of p. higher than nearby towns. In pure business terms, we pay what the market will bear. For the most part we suffer from the generalised view of the area being 'affluent'. Why would anyone who can get 140p for a litres (PAH!) sell it for less?
The Government will not apply pressure, as they rake in the extra VAT. Thus, by engineering the price structure in the surrounding areas the companies can ensure this particular market area pays, with us rich citizens only able to save cost by travelling to Reading etc.....

Posted by: Biker1 May 6 2012, 08:46 AM

Yes but surely there has to be some sort of price fixing "cartel"going on here?
Why are the prices at all the major outlets exactly the same?
No one, it seems around here, is prepared to undercut as must happen in other towns such as High Wycombe.
Otherwise, why the price difference?
It's the same stuff from the same refineries with the same transport costs?

Posted by: user23 May 6 2012, 08:56 AM

West Berkshire is seen as being amongst the most affluent areas in the country by some, and as long as people are willing to pay these prices for fuel they'll still charge them.

In my opinion the best solution is to reduce your consumption, that way you'll pay less and send a message that you're unwilling or can't afford the prices thy charge.

Posted by: Biker1 May 6 2012, 09:10 AM

Not sure it's a case of "willing to pay these prices" we have no choice!
I agree about consumption and have taken measures, as have most others, but modern life means we have to buy some!

Posted by: user23 May 6 2012, 09:30 AM

Of course you have a choice, no one's forcing you to buy fuel. I have a car and haven't filled it up since March, and even then only half-way.

Car share where you can, walk or cycle where you can, take public transport if possible and this will all keep your fuel bills down.

Stop seeing your car as a necessity and view it as a luxury and you'll soon reduce your fuel bills.

Posted by: NWNREADER May 6 2012, 09:37 AM

Unless you have a 40 mile commute to work when the public transport option is unrealistic in terms of time and more expensive that the running cost of the car..........

Interesting, the 'wealth' argument - which is one I had pretty much accepted. I work in leafy Surrey, where I now find fuel is 2-3p a litre cheaper than Newbury area.

Newbury is in an odd situation, being not exactly a big town, so no huge turnover to bring economy of scale, as well as nowhere of size in a reasonable distance to enable buyer power to force the issue: no point driving to Reading just to fill up...

Posted by: Andy Capp May 6 2012, 09:40 AM

Considering you live and work in town, that isn't that surprising.

Posted by: user23 May 6 2012, 09:42 AM

If a 40 mile commute to work is no longer economically viable perhaps it's time to look for a job closer to home?

Posted by: Andy Capp May 6 2012, 09:45 AM

...and there are loads of them about at the moment.

Posted by: Jayjay May 6 2012, 10:03 AM

It isn't just petrol that is more expensive. Courage beer was brewed in Reading, yet cheaper to buy in Birmingham than Berkshire. Greggs charges differing prices dependant on where their stores are located. Butchers and greengrocers in the north are cheaper than south. I have always presumed that this is due to higher rents/wages in the south.

Posted by: Jayjay May 6 2012, 10:04 AM

Or work in south of Slough and get the London weighting allowance, which I find really annoying.

Posted by: NWNREADER May 6 2012, 10:10 AM

When it takes you a year to get the job you have (from none), and your post is secure in an organisation slimming by 25000 (which rather tends to raise the stakes) and you are of a certain maturity, there are some things that are easy to say from outside.....

Posted by: user23 May 6 2012, 10:28 AM

The unemployment rate at nationally is about 8.5%, http://www.newburytoday.co.uk/2012/unemployment-levels-fall-in-west-berkshire-for-first-time-in-two-months so there do seem to be locally.

If you don't want to change jobs http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/employment/employees/flexibleworking/dg_10029491 at your current employer or look at car sharing with your colleagues. These are all far better options than moaning that one is being "forced" to buy fuel.

Posted by: Andy Capp May 6 2012, 10:30 AM

That's unemployment figures, not positions.

Posted by: Andy Capp May 6 2012, 10:32 AM

What would we do without your useful help!

Posted by: NWNREADER May 6 2012, 11:15 AM

I so appreciate your help, I really do, but my job cannot be done from home, I already work flexibly, and pray tell how many colleagues work there/live (near) here. Car share works as long as there is a guarantee of coinciding arrival and departure times too.........

I am not 'moaning', as I knew all the issues (apart from the 100% rise in price of fuel) when I started. I have also changed cars to one with better economy. All I seek to get across is everyone has different circumstances, preferences etc. Your preferred option is just that. Dodgy ground to get close to being sanctimonious about how another should live their life....

Plus I really like my job, the people I work with, and the outcomes I achieve......

Posted by: Jayjay May 6 2012, 11:40 AM

For anyone commuting work, where does the cut off point come when it is no longer economical to keep that job? I should imagine it would be very close for several people. I also think that suppliers and stores cannot afford to absorb the extra cost of delivery.

Posted by: NWNREADER May 6 2012, 11:49 AM

Apologies for the mission creep, but women going back to work after having a baby and incurring the cost of childminders are similarly stuck with the economic viability conundrum. The activity of working has a greater human value than just the income it creates.

Fred Herzberg and his Hygiene Factors ..........

Posted by: NWNREADER May 6 2012, 11:49 AM

Apologies for the mission creep, but women going back to work after having a baby and incurring the cost of childminders are similarly stuck with the economic viability conundrum. The activity of working has a greater human value than just the income it creates.

Fred Herzberg and his Hygiene Factors ..........

Posted by: user23 May 6 2012, 11:58 AM

Forgive me if I came across as sanctimonious it wasn't my intention. I was merely pointing out courses of action for those who feel they spend too much on fuel, traveling to work.

I was also just offering my experience that it is possible to live without using a car as part of one's daily routine provided one makes the life choices to do so.

Posted by: Biker1 May 6 2012, 06:33 PM

All this doesn't explain why, and some of us unfortunates have to buy it, fuel is more expensive in Newbury than other parts.
I don't buy this "affluent" bit.
Something is going on here.
People would soon have a "moan" if they had to pay more for gas or electricity than others wouldn't they?
Hang on........perhaps we do??
Oh and User your "forced" in quotation marks implies that no-one is and we all buy it just for the fun of it. I think you will find, although perhaps not in your case, that to many it is an essential commodity.

Posted by: Strafin May 6 2012, 06:48 PM

As a life choice I could get some girl pregnant, and give up work altogether! I would get benefits and would be far better off and could then do without a car. Thanks for the advice User!

Posted by: user23 May 6 2012, 07:02 PM

It's an essential commodity because you have chosen to make it so.

Presumably it wasn't an essential commodity to you personally when you were 15 but is now, so somewhere between then and now you've made a series of choices that have led to it becoming so.I suspect that if you "got some girl pregnant" the CSA would be after you and you'd have to do a lot more work or get yourself a Batman outfit.

Posted by: Strafin May 6 2012, 07:23 PM

Why would the CSA be after me? Could I not live with the girl? Could we not claim benefits together?

Posted by: JeffG May 6 2012, 07:29 PM

Yes, but what would your wife say?

Posted by: user23 May 6 2012, 07:29 PM

I could be totally wrong here, but don't you already have a partner?

I seem to remember you mentioning something in the past, apologies if not though.

Posted by: Strafin May 6 2012, 07:31 PM

Forget the wife... Yes I am married but my point is that I could make the choice (if I was daft enough to listen to User), to get someone pregnant, leave my wife and job and have a much better lifestyle funded on benefits.

Posted by: user23 May 6 2012, 07:39 PM

You'd most likely loose at least half of what you currently jointly own with your wife and gain £80 per month in Child Benefit, assuming "the girl" doesn't already have children in which case it would be less.

Is half of what you currently own worth £80 per month? If not this would be a bad move financially.

Posted by: Cognosco May 6 2012, 07:47 PM

You obviously don't know his exact circumatances to be able to offer financial advice so best leave well alone!

The point is why is fuel, amongst other items, dearer in Newbury than surrounding towns? Explain please?

Posted by: NWNREADER May 6 2012, 08:16 PM

Isn't it odd that some people can see a tongue in cheek comment from the other side of the universe, while others struggle even when it is explained to them?

Posted by: Biker1 May 7 2012, 07:17 AM

So all the millions of people who now use fuel do it as a "life choice" and could all do without it if the had made different personal choices?
Are you saying that if people had made the correct "life choices" there would be no cars on the road?

Posted by: user23 May 7 2012, 07:33 AM

No, they don't make a conscious choice to use more fuel, it's a result of the other choices they've made in their lives.

So in answer to the general question, "Why does fuel in Newbury cost as much as it does", it's because people are willing to pay that much for it.

Posted by: NWNREADER May 7 2012, 07:35 AM

Back in the 60's the health of the national economy was measured by tons of steel produced, tons of coal mined, and numbers of cars built. Railways were stood down to make way for the 'personal transport' revolution. The mindset of a generation was directed by Government to depend upon the car.
Social mobility followed, with people regularly working and living a distance apart - they could and they did.
Local Government supported out of town shopping and ever-expanding townships with no 'local' shop facilities let alone Doctor surgery, etc.
Now we are expected to undo the training of almost 3 generations (now).
It isn't going to happen, and central and local government should inspect their own roles in making it so.....

Posted by: Cognosco May 7 2012, 08:00 AM

Foul! Not fair blaming local government or their employees? Wash your mouth out they do not make mistakes as well you know? Next User will try and argue it is the locals own fault why our food prices are higher that surrounding towns becuase they are buying and eating it......simple just let them starve? You can see why he is council employed....?

Posted by: user23 May 7 2012, 08:54 AM

The people who made these decisions over 50 years ago are long gone and as someone once tried to sing, the times they are a changin'.

The green agenda has been gaining momentum over the past few decades, so much so that the Green Party now has an MP (as you probably know, very hard to achieve under First Past the Post) and were third in the London Mayoral Elections. The mainstream parties are increasingly including aspects of the green agenda in their own policies and one just needs look at the Conservative Party logo for other effects.

Put simply, petrol and diesel prices will continue to rise and one can sit like King Canute or take action to become less reliant on them as a fuel source.

Posted by: Cognosco May 7 2012, 09:01 AM

Still doesn't explain why they should become dearer faster in newbury than surrounding towns though does it?

Posted by: Penelope May 7 2012, 09:14 AM

One possible explanation is that the two biggest retailers of fuel in the town yard sainsbury and Tesco. Normally they would be the cheapest and the other retailers would be a penny or three more expensive. However both the big two's prices are artificially inflated so they can offer discounts on it if you shop instore ( I've just been sent a 13p a litre discount ticket),, so if they are at an artificially high price the others merely rub their hands together and stick another coupla pence onna top. Seemples.

Posted by: Andy Capp May 7 2012, 09:18 AM

That would sound plausible, if other cheaper towns didn't have a similar schemes.

Posted by: user23 May 7 2012, 09:27 AM

I would guess it's because West Berkshire is seen as an affluent area given its low unemployment, above average income per person and relatively high cost of housing.

Perhaps retailers think that local people will pay more for fuel, which seems to be the case as the forecourts are always busy whenever I visit or drive past one.

Newbury residents can take heart that a quick check of PetrolPrices.com reveals that bar Savacentre, Newbury is the cheapest place to buy fuel in West Berkshire.

Posted by: Cognosco May 7 2012, 09:34 AM

So according to your theory someone working in Burger King or McDonalds in Newbury are higher paid than other towns surrounding us? Other towns are in West Berkshire and have cheaper fuel costs than us so your argument falls flat...again.! Or is it becuase local authority employees are paid above the norm perhaps?

Posted by: On the edge May 7 2012, 10:38 AM

I thought 'buy in' prices fuel retailers pay in any given area were driven by the actual transport costs from the refinery. That includes the transport route and frequency. In the local area - retailers will charge what the market will bear. That being the case, Newbury has a problem - in reality, it doesn't serve a massive market. That's competition. Double edged sword - its the same effect that has kept Camp Hopson and NWN independent. However, once and if the economy takes off again, the demographics that have made Park Way viable in development terms are likely to change that. Its only then you may start to see a drop in fuel prices.

Posted by: Andy Capp May 7 2012, 11:07 AM

I don't know about now, but the garages at Padworth and Woolhampton have often been cheaper than Newbury, but it does cycle.

Posted by: On the edge May 7 2012, 11:17 AM

Think you are right about that. Particularly if the garage is an independent and looking to maintain trade, they'll periodically cut profit to the bone - simply to attract business. It certainly pays to keep eyes open and shop around.

Posted by: Berkshirelad May 7 2012, 02:20 PM

That's good, but could somebody tell me where it is.

AFAIK, Newbury has a Sainsbury's and Savacentre is in Reading...

Posted by: JeffG May 7 2012, 02:40 PM

Which is consistent with the comment which was talking about the cheapest place to buy petrol in West Berkshire, not just Newbury.

Posted by: user23 May 7 2012, 03:01 PM

Savacentre is in West Berkshire.This might be true from time to time, however at the moment PetrolPrices.com (which is fairly reliable) say there's nowhere cheaper than Sainsbury's and Tesco in Newbury to buy Petrol in West Berkshire.

I was looking at Diesel before when I said Savacentre was cheaper.

Posted by: Newbelly May 7 2012, 03:37 PM

This puts me in mind of an email that did the rounds a while back, suggesting that if drivers boycotted one petrol company at a time, it might force a change on prices. I don't think it ever took off - like that "fuel club" that was once in existence.

As long as there are company vehicle drivers buying fuel with a corporate fuel card, there will always be customers no matter what the forecourt price.

Posted by: Biker1 May 7 2012, 03:48 PM

So true in every way.
The Beeching Report of the 60's saw the closure of a huge percentage of our rail network.
Subsequent planning and short term greed saw their formations destroyed forever so they could never be rebuilt. An insult to the brilliant engineers and labourers who had the foresight to build them.
(Much of the planned route of HS2 follows the line of the Great Central main line built to a high speed continental loading gauge and closed by Beeching in 1966 !!)
The car and the lorry were the answer to everything and, as you rightly say, our way of life was transformed to rely on road transport.
If only we knew then what we know now.
Oil is becoming scarcer and our reliance on it becoming more fragile.
The railways are becoming more crowded as people are changing their travelling habits back from road, but the decimated and under invested infrastructure cannot cope and no government is brave enough, or in office long enough to commit to major investment in them.
There is a campaign afoot to reopen the Didcot Newbury and Southampton Railway as a through freight route from Southampton to the Midlands taking much traffic off the A34 and away from an already busy passenger route.
This, of course, is a no no as the formation has been destroyed.
User is right in what he says about our lifestyle changes being made to fit around the car and road transport, but it has been a much larger culture change rather than an individual's choice not to comply.
Anyone know the answer to our current and future transport problems? I don't think many have thought it through and know of one!

Posted by: Jayjay May 7 2012, 09:20 PM

There are lots of people who do not have a choice. A friends teenage children got weekend jobs at Tesco, Pinchington Lane and more recently in Park Way. Neither could take the jobs as there is only one bus route that runs on a Sunday and they don't live near it. How would you get these teens in to work?

Posted by: Roost May 8 2012, 06:36 AM

Um, shanks's....?

I used to walk about 2 miles to my first job.

Posted by: user23 May 8 2012, 11:42 AM

Push bike, walk in or get a lift from a colleague.

Posted by: Roger T May 8 2012, 12:01 PM

Are you being serious? This is Newbury. One does not simply walk anywhere without fear of serious injury. The Nephew has a GPS chip implanted in his neck. And after having to run from groups of horrible people I feel a car or bus would be safer. One of those statements are not true.
I suppose if you live in Thatcham, Kennet Heath, that's a fairly long and possibly dangerous way to ride a bicycle. In the rain and the cold it can be quite humiliating.
I notice they refer to you as a council employee. I guess that would be on the manifest, your methods that is. I hope before my time is up, they invent teleportation.

Posted by: Biker1 May 8 2012, 12:02 PM

So User, you come up with an alternative to the car in all situations and yet you said earlier that you do buy petrol.
I assume therefore that you do run a car?
Surely if your arguments hold you do not need a car?

Posted by: andy1979uk May 8 2012, 01:59 PM

I can confirm there is nothing wrong with using a bike to get to work

Posted by: Roger T May 8 2012, 02:31 PM

My Father when he was a bit younger and still working, 5 years ago, would ride a bike (pedal-powered). He was one of those types in lycra. I frequently mocked. He's old and retired now, he said he felt healthier because of it but, being honest, he's still as fat as ever. And only upside was he ended up with tight underpants and confused looks from passers-by.

Never myself would I do that.

Posted by: andy1979uk May 8 2012, 02:33 PM

then you have no right to complain about the price of petrol, not taking a job because you cant be bothered to cycle a few miles is just plain lazy and shows the complete failure of the current generation.

Posted by: Roger T May 8 2012, 03:02 PM

But alas fuel is at an unreasonable price, anyone with eyes can admit that. Even an owl, I hear their eye-socket is fixed. Random googling last night.

A 5 mile cycle each way for a 16 year old isn't really worth the minimum wage they would expect to receive. Fine on a sunny day, in the weather we've been recently having, not so much. I work for charity thus don't pay tax but I remember from when I did (and everything was in black and white) you had to earn a certain amount before you paid any. And as a 16 year old you would not be paying tax, if I am correct. I'm probably not. I could google but, government websites dull my already wrinkled grey matter.

Certainly if the Nephew was to start a job like that I would have a discussion with his mother about suitable transport. It's her decision but we're all close and discuss matters such as.

I think paraphrasing complete failure of the current generation is harsh. I was talking to my Nephew about this over the weekend. He's surrounded by people at school who smoke, drink and use drugs. He studies hard (especially in biology with his new "study partner") - I think he has a girlfriend but, it's his private life. We try not to pry. We don't need to lecture him on the dangers, he seems to be very adult in his thinking. Just naturally isn't like some.

When he studies hard and gets good results, the society at large who are generally bitter (I will admit, I envy their youth and how school 'seems' easier, but would never use that as a derogatory comment) and state that students are not bright, it's just their exams are easy. Frankly I struggle with the crossword in The Times.
Children and young teenagers are thrown into a world of media advertising, and pressured about every topic. Nothing can be just right, always having to change. Much like Mrs T when clothes shopping.

Being told they are too fat, then too thin, then mocked for getting depressed and confused. Again we're talking about the youngun's of today. Not Mrs T.
I do not think the current generation has failed or is a failure. I think it's the previous ones which have set them up for it, myself included. It's easy to pass the blame to the kids.
"I didn't break your expense vase, dear, it was the Nephew with the basketball..."

Would you care for a pack of quavers? They are tangy cheesy and help everyone lighten up. I have a multipack under my desk.

Posted by: andy1979uk May 8 2012, 03:15 PM

Obviosuly they have not all failed, but a 5 mile cycle ride is'nt going to harm anyone. If he is unable to do that who thinks it wont be worth his while then I would fear his suitability as a future employee.

My opinion is that the last 13 years of labour have produced a generation of people who basicly expect everything in life for free, alas your nephew has confirmed that.

Posted by: dannyboy May 8 2012, 03:18 PM

Five miles on a bike would take about 25mins. If accross town, a bike is often quicker than a car.

Posted by: andy1979uk May 8 2012, 03:21 PM

if its raining use waterproofs, simple. Its the whole 'poor little jonny cant possibly be expected to do anything by himself' attitude that has completely screwed this generation. Yes they may study hard but their flippin hopeless and lack basic skills. Such as how to get yourself from A+B.

Posted by: Roger T May 8 2012, 03:32 PM

Not harm, death will not ensue. But you balance up the costs/effort vs reward. For a good job, eg in an office as a junior accountant, or perhaps a film director, probably the 5 mile cycle is worth it. For minimum wage, at 16, stacking shelves at Tescos, probably not. It's subjective. Like a submarine but doesn't float.




Seems easy to blame a political party for the upbringing of children. Even as a non-parent (well, Mrs T and I like to think of our family as a "3-parent" model, it suits us fine) can see that that's an illogical viewpoint. You may have your opinion, as you may have some cotton candy. I fit the stereotype of Werthers Originals. I think this generation, personally, are more than willing to work for their living. Misunderstood is probably the best. It's nothing about the expectation.

My Nephew understands this. He never just asks for money. He always offers to do some jobs, like the hoovering, not sure how it would work but he offered to take the Cat out for a walk as well. I should take him up on the offer, just to watch the onslaught of claws and screaming (from both parties). Then again he is 14. And doesn't have a bicycle. We are planning a nice one for his birthday.
Or a national insurance number at present. So officially he's an immigrant. Although he knows his way around better than I do. I only know the way to the pet shop, and the supermarket.

I do often give him the money he needs without expecting something in return. He is young, after all. And tends to spend it wisely. I think his most wasteful purchase was a variety pack of Haribo. I would wish for him to have a happy childhood. So I think an apology for assumption about my Nephew (and the generation) is in order.

Posted by: andy1979uk May 8 2012, 03:38 PM

Exactly how much money does a 5 mile trip on a bike each day cost ?

Posted by: Roger T May 8 2012, 03:54 PM

Sorry, I'm bamboozled. Seemingly common with you. Have you tried being a defending lawyer, you'd be great.
I thought this was about the lazy youth of today, not about costs. I would imagine by your logic one should walk to Manchester rather than drive or use a train (or a Helicopter if you're so inclined), because that's cheaper. Maybe the generation in question not appreciating cars.
Maybe go one further and ban sale of Curly Wurly's. Mrs T would not be pleased.

Posted by: andy1979uk May 8 2012, 03:58 PM

Can you answer the question, am confused as to why a young 16 year old is not capable of cycling 5 miles ?

Posted by: Roger T May 8 2012, 04:26 PM

When a question is asked which is intelligent I will answer. I don't like to dislike people but we seem to clash, I find your posts very aggressive or at best, missing the point. Kind of like most of the American Army's airstrikes.
I don't think anyone has said "not capable" (although they may have, I forgot). Personally I said, it would not be worth it, for a shelf stacking job at Tesco. In the rain, for 4 or 5 hours an evening, part time. Arrive at work wet, unpresentable. By the time you have dried, time to get wet again.

I would rather, in my Nephew's case, he studies for his college work (I guess that's what happens at 16 now) and myself, Mrs T and his Mother can help support him financially as one would expect of parents. There is a lot of expectation for young children to fend for themselves before they are able to. Creates debt, and a feeling of resentment. "Must get them out as soon as possible" .. into work, no time for a life or being young. Mrs T and the Mother were discussing if, when the time came, the Nephew move in with us, if she gets too old/tired to care for him full time. We all agree that unless he chooses there shouldn't be pressure to move out. Maybe when 22 or 23 comes around, we would start the discussions, but at 18/19, too much we calculate for the newly blossomed butterfly to carry. Give a chance to create some savings, live a little.

I think minimum wage for a 16 year old is about £5.50... so £20 a day, factoring £2.50 for a bite to eat. Being drenched by the weather and splashes from other cars. (although many people pay to go to Thorpe Park for this. I wouldn't tell Mrs T this but the ladies in T-Shirts makes it worth the cost of entrance ) isn't really fun.

So in my opinion not worth it. For a job, 8 hours a day, £7 an hour, maybe yes. I feel you will not read or understand what I am saying and continue down the "lazy" path.

Posted by: Roger T May 8 2012, 04:29 PM

Agree. But there is more than time to take consideration for. Example if you decide to get some shopping. Or if it's raining or very cold.

Posted by: Nothing Much May 8 2012, 04:31 PM

Syd walked home to Cambridge from London, because he didn't have a bike.
And since a thread some time ago I am reliably informed he did have a bike
but he'd only borrowed it.

Cycling for pleasure is pretty hard work with narrow lanes as I found out navigating some of the lanes south of Newbury
'I was so much younger then, I'm older than that now', So I drive a Bavarian beast.

So cycling to school with a back full of lunch, cupcakes, clothes in case it rains, clothes for sports.
Oh and the books of course, cycling is not an easy option for a youngster.
Not forgetting the headphones, I pod, laptop mobile...and the joker who wants the bike.

Perhaps in days gone by when outside trenches were frozen, a child in clogs could earn a bob or two with his
crow scarer on the way, but Granny would have it for "Mouthwash"
ce.

Posted by: andy1979uk May 8 2012, 04:32 PM

awww poor little didums if its raining or cold, no wonder we live in such a nanny state. Is he allowed out after dark yet ?

Posted by: Roger T May 8 2012, 04:34 PM

It's clear to me you are incapable of an adult and mature discussion thus, I will have no discussion with you whatsoever.

Posted by: andy1979uk May 8 2012, 04:38 PM

well at least I dont try to talk in riddles, and am capable of cycling 5 miles a day for work. If its wet I use waterproofs, its not rocket science. Alas I give up with you as you like to spout rubbish rather than answer the direct question.

Posted by: Jayjay May 8 2012, 04:43 PM

Oh, I am so thankful for the last two posts.

Posted by: Nothing Much May 8 2012, 04:53 PM

"Oh mr porter what can I do?"


As a child I led a fairly easy life, company pool,school, very long beaches.

I did have to learn about scorpions, snakes, water snakes, sharks, jellyfish
iguanas the size of a leg.Bird eating spiders, None of which gave me preparation to
a life back in England..... Trains.

My first attempt at solo travel at 13 via Reading West
to Shropshire was a dismal failure. I should have changed at Birmingham but I
ended up in Crewe. It was all written down for me, but I was too slow opening the door.

I am not too sure that on country lanes with tractors that have wheels the size of an elephant
cycling to school is a realiseable option for many.

Posted by: Strafin May 8 2012, 05:29 PM

I had a paper round at 13, started working part time at 15, and I chose go full time at 16. This enabled me to save for things and have a sense of value for money. It also got me on the road to independence, and taught me a work ethic. I also learned a sense of pride, and I have cycled 5 miles to earn a crust when their was no alternative.

Posted by: user23 May 8 2012, 05:52 PM

I can't believe that someone might let their 16 year old use the excuse that a 5 mile ride is too far, for not getting a job.

In this type of situation it says more about the parents than the child.I've come up with an alternative to using a car in two situations, not all situations

I've already said I run a car but try to treat it as a luxury, not a necessity.

Posted by: Andy Capp May 8 2012, 06:08 PM

That's at the optimistic end. You also have to budget for extra clothing, adverse weather, and if you live or work on top of a hill.

I'd always cycle as a preference if I work within 5 miles. Newbury roads are not the best cycleways though.

Posted by: andy1979uk May 8 2012, 06:35 PM

Stop making excuses, he cant cycle 5 miles because is too **** lazy.

Posted by: Andy Capp May 8 2012, 07:58 PM

I'm not making excuses you foul-mouthed yob.

Posted by: NWNREADER May 8 2012, 08:03 PM

Dangerous judgement on someone you don't know.....

Posted by: Roger T May 8 2012, 08:20 PM

Didn't you just bake the crusts?
Ok, a poor gag. I assume at some point you were a baker. When no alternative, I do agree. But at 16 one should be focusing on studying (in my eyes) rather than work for a poor salary, and little job prospects without a lot of luck (I always lose at the lottery).

Everyone needs down time and you can either work and have a good life, or study and have a good life, if one tries to do both, generally you fail. I know a friend across the pond. Works 40 hours a week. Studies for a diploma at every other waking hour. No time for her own personal life. Stays up till 3 or 4am every day. What life is that? A very tiring one.

Red bull only helps so much.

Posted by: Nothing Much May 8 2012, 09:21 PM

When I did overnight work Red Bull was yet to be invented.
We worked from 22.00 on Saturday night to three days later.
We got by with a few Bob Dylan albums, a bit of James Tayler as the nights wore on.
and some cider. Just good cheer really. It was a long time ago. & I was young.
ce

Posted by: Roger T May 8 2012, 09:35 PM

Sounded like quite the life. I do miss the golden days, probably you more so than I. Overnight work, what was it you did? My night work is dreaming.

Posted by: Nothing Much May 8 2012, 10:04 PM

I will keep it short RogerT so as not to bore. A little place in West Berks.
Firstly....This is 1969 of course.
Store the valuables borrowed from a country house or antiques shop.
I could blag my way in to most places.

Store the costumes hired from London.
Take down the set. Take down the lighting,
Put up a new set, make sure the doors worked.
Shove a whole load of props.(Which I had borrowed.)

Sweep the floor and say good morning to such as Bill Nighy and David Suchet.
Walkthroughs ,technicals, We did get time for lunch sometimes.
1st night on Tuesday. I enjoyed it and wish I could remember more.
I still have programmes though. Which my kids won't let me sell!
That is it. I carried on in a similar vein for the next 20 years till 'nephews' and family grew up.
I became an older person.& did other things.

My oldest chum from those times was the first to accept an invitation to Miss NM's, wedding.
It turns out to be his birthday..... Cheapskate.
ce

Posted by: andy1979uk May 8 2012, 10:08 PM

harsh though my comments maybe, 5 miles a day is less than I ride to goto work.

Posted by: Roger T May 8 2012, 10:18 PM

The nearest Zoo is further away than that.

It's not a case of maybe. Maybe is whether I will have Gravy on my Pie or whether I will have some old fashioned Ketchup.. Are there really 57 varieties? Certainly not of Ketchup. I would imagine the overall brand. I suspect a marketing ploy...oh dear, my ramble will lead me on some gratuitous Googling later.

I would definitely say your comments were harsh, in general. You seem angry. Angry people make me sad.
I get angry sometimes, when I do, I put on some Pat Metheny and relax. Or I invite the Nephew over and we play some Tekken. Normally the cause of my anger is jam jar lids and Cheryl Cole.

I don't think 5 miles is a long distance to cycle. Or unreasonable. But for the circumstances, I think for a 16 year old who would work a 4 or 5 hour shift, I would rather they didn't. If they wanted to, I guess that would be fine. In this case so long as his mother was fine. But 2 happy years left before that situation happens.

If the Nephew wants to ride his pedal bicycle for a part time job he would be allowed to. But if it was heavily raining or in the winter, and icy, I would personally feel safer if he was riding in a bus or being given a lift. It's nothing to do with laziness. Just comfort and ease. Plus he could bring the milk that I forgot back.

If he behaves really well, I have some money saved up. It would be enough for retirement at 50 but it would also buy quite a nice Helicopter. I was looking on E-bay.

Posted by: Roger T May 8 2012, 10:42 PM

Thanks for sharing, I forgot to post, logged back on just to say I appreciated this post. Feel free to keep it long, you are an interesting person. Made me smile very much. Your old job sounded menial yet fun, at the same time. And meeting David Suchet, a life time achievement right there. If you understand Xbox Gamerpoints (I don't, but I understand the higher the number the better they are so the Nephew tells me) you would score 1000 for talking with David Suchet. I remember him, when I was slightly younger.

Maybe the kids appreciate a classic, don't sell them. Birthdays can cause a mixed reception.
But I'm sure the porridge tastes better with some Honey, when slightly warm.

Posted by: Andy Capp May 8 2012, 10:56 PM

Which still doesn't necessarily mean anyone who doesn't is a lazy so and so!

Posted by: dannyboy May 8 2012, 11:59 PM

14 miles an hour is the optimum speed on a bike. Very easy to maintain even on a crap bike.

Posted by: Andy Capp May 9 2012, 12:12 AM

I don't think so. Perhaps if reasonably fit and with little or no wind.

Posted by: Jayjay May 9 2012, 07:39 AM

It isn't just petrol. Just reading the difference of various items in the north/south divide. Biggest difference is David Lloyd health club, a massive 117% and Odean cinema 79.5%.

There may be a difference in wages for some, but pensions are the same throughout the country. Maybe we should all retire to the north.

Posted by: andy1979uk May 9 2012, 08:14 AM

agree with dannyboy, there is no justified reason why people cannot use a bike to commute.

Posted by: Roger T May 9 2012, 08:49 AM

I went to the North once. Not particularly keen to go back.
Everyone says "Up tut road" instead of "up the road" and I felt a victim of homophobia (as a straight and married male) because people in Leeds were constantly calling me gay, for some reason. Most places are like "The Nightingales" and/or terraced housing. And all the women talk in squeaky voices and call everybody "luv" (an observation, not a complaint).

The Porridge tastes a bit different too, more gritty like. Plus it's miles away from a nice Seaside. I imagine dogs would be happier in the South.



Not wanting to is justification enough. And if you don't agree with someone not wanting to, move to Russia and become a communist in a dictatorship. See how long you last there. Happily though I challenge you (to a duel, en garde !) - Cycle along constantly at 14mph.
I imagine not as easy as you like to make out. For a regular, non-cyclist that would be a torturous pace. Many push their bikes up hills. I guess that's just a failing generation, according to you?

Mrs T says everybody's different. Not specifically relating to this but generally in life. She also likes chocolate eclairs, much to my dismay when I buy a pack of 4, why when I go to have my share, there's only one left. If people don't want to cycle or don't enjoy it then in my eyes you have no right to complain about what they do with their life. I'm sure you wouldn't like it if someone did that to you. Maybe you'd shout in their face.
"Hey man check out my new dog *points at floor*"
-Ah that's pretty cool *looks* oh what, there's no dog there!
"Grrrrrr"
-Grrrrrr
"-GRRRRRRRRRR-"

I wonder if you just shout into people's windows as you ride by, probably wobbling around in the road "LAZY GIT". I had a fish once, the reference is that I called it "git". It was the Nephews idea. He was 9 at the time...did worry me slightly.

Posted by: Jayjay May 9 2012, 08:51 AM

QUOTE (Jayjay @ May 9 2012, 08:39 AM)

It isn't just petrol. Just reading the difference of various items in the north/south divide. Biggest difference is David Lloyd health club, a massive 117% and Odean cinema 79.5%.

There may be a difference in wages for some, but pensions are the same throughout the country. Maybe we should all retire to the north.

Commuting on a bike will not level the cost of the cinema, or health clubs or spending power on a pension.

Posted by: andy1979uk May 9 2012, 08:55 AM

Not wanting too is as good as can't be bothered in my eyes. If you want something in life then you need to work for it, failing at the first bump in the road is'nt going to help prepare you for the harsh realities of adult life. 14 mph is a good pace, 12 mph is prob more realisitc. If you were to do it on a regualr basis you would of course become fitter and increase your pace. A young lad of 16 should have no problems cycling 5 miles, I had a part time job while I was at college so I did'nt need to sponge off my parents.

Posted by: Roger T May 9 2012, 09:15 AM

But that's not the case, is it? Not wanting to is not wanting to. Not being bothered is a different thing. "I don't want to be brutally mauled by Honey Badgers". My Nephew goes on about the creatures, I need to do some Google research.



On a bicycle, you probably would fall at the first bump in the road. And when you do, you'd wish you drove to work.
I think worse than being unprepared for adult life is being rushed out of childhood. Children have to grow up much too quickly these days and it's attitudes like yours that push them out before they are ready.



What if the young lad of 16 was rotund, or disabled, maybe he had too many Creme Eggs for Easter and felt unwell. I don't think sponging off your parents happens when you are 16. Maybe 26.
But whatever makes you happy.
For me it's cuddles and dipping biscuits in coffee. Failing that some Radio 3 in the background, and a family game of Monopoly. I always play as the Shoe.

Posted by: andy1979uk May 9 2012, 09:20 AM

clearly if he is disabled then that is different, but you have'nt mentioned that up until now. If he had too many easter eggs then the exercise will do him good. almost everyone I knew had a part time job while at college for abit of money. If am honest the youth of today disapoint me, in my opinion down to labour and stupid things like EMA allowances.

Posted by: dannyboy May 9 2012, 09:22 AM

You get fitter the more you cycle.

Posted by: Biker1 May 9 2012, 09:23 AM

What happened to this then?

Posted by: Biker1 May 9 2012, 09:24 AM

Or this??

Posted by: andy1979uk May 9 2012, 09:29 AM

I dont think you can persuade anyone that a 16 year old boy is incapable of cycling anywhere, if 25 mins exercise is too much for him then I really do feel for him.

Posted by: andy1979uk May 9 2012, 09:31 AM

Roger, am not sure why you add such randomness into the conversation?

Posted by: Roger T May 9 2012, 09:44 AM

You have caught me in a lie. I refused when such an unreasonable outlook in life was taken. But in later posts he became more reasonable but I'm not sure now. Besides I need to give my wrist a break, frequent clicking and such, strains my hand. I type with my left, a bit slow but I manage.
Although in my defense, no question to me was asked. So nothing to answer, really. Maybe we need to have some formal examinations. GCSE or something, they call them now.


I do that quote a lot. In regular conversation too. Part of my nature. Maybe one can ask why you add such aggression to some of your posts and seem to dislike the younger generation. No man is an island.
Although sorry, if you find my rambles dull. Or confusing. Not the aim or intention. Maybe bamboozlement is a side effect.

Posted by: andy1979uk May 9 2012, 09:49 AM

No its not annoying was just an observation. Its not like I dislike the youth of today, just sadly in my opinion the lack the hard working ethics that were needed when I was growing up.

Posted by: Biker1 May 9 2012, 09:52 AM

Some, not all.
Although I agree modern society does not encourage hard work the way it used to.

Posted by: andy1979uk May 9 2012, 10:16 AM

totally agree Biker1, they dont know how easy they have it these days. Thank god Labour got kicked out thats all I can say.

Posted by: Roger T May 9 2012, 10:34 AM

What is it with you and Labour?
Are you giving birth? I imagine not.

That said the young don't have it easy. Many of the young generation of today will never own houses, let alone be able to get a mortgage. I am lucky but unless we die or his Mother, and comes into some inheritance, no house of his own. Renting will be the only option, in the long term that is a bad model.
Anyway three cheers for the Conservatives. Causing the double-dip recession, the panic with the not-fuel strikes after having just raised tax, and having quite possibly the largest public outcry of any political party in the last 20 years. My Nephew could run the country better than David Cameron and Nick Clegg. Both are out of touch with reality, maybe for their birthday party they should play "Back to life, back to reality.. do, do do..". And since it couldn't get any worse, any votes for the Nephew? If so I will start polling local residents. He is well known as a good child. Polite and adjusted well. Contrast and brightness.

Hip hip, hoo-ray.

Posted by: andy1979uk May 9 2012, 10:45 AM

Why can he not save for a deposit and buy a house like the rest of us had too, similar reason he can't ride his bike to work I imagine. Labour created a generatgion of youth who expect everything handed on a plate. The country needs a conservative government, but I dont want to talk politics.

Posted by: Roger T May 9 2012, 11:08 AM

Because he is 14. I guess you stop counting after 3. It can be difficult.

I did some research and, on an income of £22,000 per year, a higher than average earning (I hope that's around what the Nephew will be earning in his early 20's, I have high hopes) if you are single, a requirement deposit on a normal 2/3 bedroom Semi-detached house is £30,000 minimum, and then about £550-£650 per month. A lot of money, and unfesable. It's also a great deal more money than when I at least had to buy my house. In a serious point, unless he has a partner (whatever his choice of gender, male, female, fish) who is also earning a simiarly high amount, he will never be able to afford a deposit on his own. As "parents/guardians" I believe it's in our duty to help, where possible. Not saying pay for everything outright but, on big financial purchases or decisions, offer help, advice, and monetary support.

We bought our house outright for around £40,000 about 20 years ago. Something around that. I can't remember exactly. Not a bad price. Now it's worth approximately £165,000 to £175,000. I am aware, inflation has happened since but still, that's a lot of money to make up, and if we were to sell we would have made a good profit even taking inflation into account. The den of Dragons would envy my return on investment.

It would take 5 or 6 years of constant savings if working from 16 at a supermarket or similar, full time, without having any personal spend each month for that amount. But then the supermarket or similar job, would not provide the money required to run the house. It's a means to an end.

If the Nephew did as I hoped, and stayed at school until at least A-Levels, he would be around 19 or 20 when he emerged. I would rather he study harder during this period than strain under the expectation to go to work from 6 till 10 every night after a full day of studying. But anyway I ramble.
He would be 25 or so, if he started saving, after finishing A-Levels.

You can get cheaper house, or a bedsit, but then you are tied into a house or tiny flat which is not really big enough, for maybe 8-10 years, in a likely poor area with crime and people who originated from Swindon/Watford. Probably called Gary, or Dave.
That being said, Mrs T is from up north, you'd expect her to be pretty rough but she's very southern now. Like Kentucky Fried. Her name is not Dave.

I had a discussion with Mrs T and the Mother a few months ago. When the time comes, we would help, if possible, the Nephew to get a larger house, one with 3 bedrooms possibly. Meaning that 2 bedrooms can be rented out. It would help pay for the day to day costs.

I am happy to discuss politics but, I feel you do not understand it. As labour didn't create any generation. What I do know though, is thanks, both to global climates (unfortunately a lack of sunshine over these parts) and the actions of the Conservative/Liberal Democrat's reign of power (enough of the horsing around now) that my Nephew will be very unlikely to own a house in his lifetime.

A sad fact, on your personal crusade (back to the horse references now) about lazy young children and how much you dislike labour. You must be a hoot, and a Daily Mail reader. I only buy their paper for the Mail Rewards Club. I throw the paper in the bin without reading it, sometimes lining the cat litter tray with it, before applying the litter.

Posted by: andy1979uk May 9 2012, 11:12 AM

Its a shame you have written him off as never being able to buy a flat then moving up the housing ladder, alas nevermind luckily his relatives will be buying one for him. The same way you seem to want to do everything else for him, again I reference the molly coddled youth of today.

Sigh I feel we are too different, I expect people to work and save for what they have, you it seems do not.

Posted by: andy1979uk May 9 2012, 11:16 AM

550-650 a month, your not even going to be able to rent a place for that? On a salary of 22k thats affordable. I know as I have done it.

Posted by: Roger T May 9 2012, 11:20 AM

Can I ask, how old you are? Do you have children?
For the sake of a bit of extra money, early on, he could get a larger house and rent the spare rooms out. It would mean his costs as a house-holder would be less, and financially easier for him.

There is a difference between buying one a house. And helping to achieve. I fail to see how in our situation, we do everything for the Nephew. He's quite independent but, he's still 14. In the core of his youth, happy and care free. So to expect him to work down tut mines 27 hours a day, is maybe unreasonable.
What about your upbringing?


Incorrect. But for houses, assistance from parents in these financial climes, seem necessary.

Posted by: andy1979uk May 9 2012, 11:21 AM

You said he was 16, you cannot legally work at 14.

Posted by: Roger T May 9 2012, 11:35 AM

Negatory, the Nephew is 14 and have always said that.
The 16 year old was the other person's child.

Posted by: andy1979uk May 9 2012, 11:40 AM

at 14 he cannot work, the other persons child should be able to work. Providing they are wrapped in cotton wool.

As for myself, I am 33 I have one child and a house with a morgage. I have worked since college, I saved up and bought a flat then sold it and bought a house. I worked weekends to save the deposit and cycle alot to save petrol and for the good of the planet.

I am as far from lazy, molly coddled, spoilt as you could get.

Posted by: Roger T May 9 2012, 11:47 AM

Thanks. I was unaware of the legalities of a 14 year old working. Nothing to do with my saying earlier he's technically an immigrant, no NI number. You must be proud of yourself. I'm sure that when you purchased your flat, and your house, times were not as bad as they are today.
I hope when your child comes of age, you are more supportive than you write here. If so I fear for your child.

A warm and soft buzzom is needed. Concrete can be cold, much like a possible relationship if help is refused when it's needed. As for the good of the planet, David Attenborough is grateful. The cycles of the earth though, are more powerful then men on bicycles, saving fossiled fishes from swimming through your engine. I think that's how the Discovery Channel talked about it.

Do you drive a Prius as well, or do you just like trying be pretentious about your actions? I cook for the good of my stomach, but Mrs T cooks normally, for the good of everyones.

Posted by: andy1979uk May 9 2012, 11:51 AM

Can you possibly just answer without all the garbage ? Anyone with any decency knows that cycling is good for you and good for the planet. Yourself it seems are the type of person who would drive to the end of the driveway to put the bin out. I'm sure your nephew is driven to school each day to save his poor little legs.

Posted by: Roger T May 9 2012, 12:09 PM

Not debating that it's good but personally see no need to gratify your actions as some sort of "world-saving" action. Maybe removing nuclear weapons from the world would do more good than bicycling to work. That would be my dream job, not nuclear bombs but; imagine being a missile test pilot. I saw a video on the internet, yesterday night actually. A fighter Jet. And the firing of missiles. Looks like a lot of fun. I wonder if they do those on the "Red Letter Days". I may ask Mrs T for one, for my birthday next year.



Sorry I find your attitude in general quite aggressive. And with respect, I think to make judgements about myself or the Nephew is out of line.
Why the need for such confrontation?

But as a side-track... The Nephew lives 0.8 miles from school, he walks in with his friends every day. He has a good time, generally. In the rain he has a small Umbrella. The only time he does not walk in, is when he either has a big project, such as when he made a 1/10th scale of David Hasselhoff for science, incase of damaging, or when his Mother is heading out at the same time, which is rare. She drives past the school on her way to work. She starts work normally around 10. Once or twice a month, at most frequent.

I think your view on the world is blinkered at best, perhaps plain wrong at worst.

Posted by: andy1979uk May 9 2012, 12:11 PM

I think your views are selfish and you confuse everything you say by adding in total unrelated garbage that confuse the matter.

Posted by: Roger T May 9 2012, 12:14 PM

Maybe harsh but if that's your view, fine. I can agree about the confusing, but if you are logical you can follow. But the selfish views, not so much.
Maybe pay 20p and look out to see with some binoculars.

Posted by: andy1979uk May 9 2012, 12:22 PM

but you wont cycle anywhere, you think its too much for a 16 year old to goto work, the list is endless.

Posted by: Roger T May 9 2012, 12:28 PM

I think you would find that's the list in its entirety.
I have not said I won't cycle anywhere, and I think that for a part time job, in the pouring rain or winter, that a 10 mile return cycle ride for 4 hours of work is not worth it. Not talking about the work its self, just the journey.

Getting the facts right is an important part of a discussion. I bet when there's a disagreement at home you are the most reasonable out of everyone involved.

Posted by: Weavers Walk May 9 2012, 12:28 PM

Are you on drugs?

Posted by: andy1979uk May 9 2012, 12:33 PM

lol

Posted by: Roger T May 9 2012, 12:34 PM

Is that a trick question, are you an agent of the law? No. I don't use any illegal narcotics. Benylin for the occasional cold, that's normally about it.

Posted by: andy1979uk May 9 2012, 01:34 PM

I think its because you talk in riddles for some reason. I find you very hard to understand, think its a shame you are against people being independant, understand wanting to study but at the age of 14/16 your hardly doing a masters degree.

Posted by: Roger T May 9 2012, 01:47 PM

If only you put as much thought into reading as you do into your petit insults and insightful ways of which you think children should be raised, I'm sure you wouldn't have a problem.
I hope it was concise enough, for you to comprehend.

Posted by: andy1979uk May 9 2012, 01:52 PM

I can assure you my child will be a well rounded and independant individual.

Posted by: andy1979uk May 9 2012, 01:53 PM

do you have children ?

Posted by: Roger T May 9 2012, 02:10 PM

Are you asking yourself, or me?

For me, no. Various reasons. We had one but accidentally lost him in the Frozen Food section, in Sainsburys.

It was from that day that Mrs T and I, in joint decision with the Mother, would mainly focus on the Nephew. While not biological parents, myself being the father figure, and Mrs T and his Mother sharing the...well, mother role. It would be odd if it was something else. Like in Bangkok.

Mrs T and his Mother are almost exactly the same in respect to their ethics, so there's no problems. So no, technically we do not have children. But we see ourselves as parents, more importantly a family.

Posted by: andy1979uk May 9 2012, 02:22 PM

if thats a joke am not sure I find it funny

Posted by: Roger T May 9 2012, 02:31 PM

No joke. Aside from the losing the Nephew in Sainsburys. We always wait for each other, when one goes to fetch some eggs, and you are in the milk isle.

Posted by: andy1979uk May 9 2012, 02:38 PM

It was'nt funny the first time

Posted by: Roger T May 9 2012, 02:41 PM

Certainly not to you. I think the only thing you would find humorous is the sight of 16 and 17 year olds, dragging themselves up at 8am, after working for 8 hours, after studying for 8 hours, starting at 9am, to pay their way.
It's clear we have differing opinion.

Posted by: andy1979uk May 9 2012, 02:49 PM

16-18 year olds rarely need to study for 8 hours per day so they can find plenty of time to work. Amazing how you are so against part time work for students.

Posted by: Roger T May 9 2012, 02:51 PM

I'm not.
Part time work is fine, the whole discussion was, whether it's worth cycling in the rain and making an already moody teenager more miserable, by forcing them out for 4 hours otherwise they won't get their fave computer game for Christmas, Xbox counter strike..

You have an inane ability to not actually read what anyone writes. I suppose that's because you're confused by a slight ramble.

Posted by: Roger T May 9 2012, 02:51 PM

Double post, for some reason. Apologies.

Posted by: andy1979uk May 9 2012, 02:59 PM

Its not always raining

Posted by: Nothing Much May 9 2012, 03:20 PM

Rainin'? Well it might not be in Barcelona ,"Where the nuts come from"

It does seem to have caused strange holes in Shefford and made Worried more worried.
It is certainly pouring as I type, and it always did on my birthday in June.

I think we forget the drizzly days that last for weeks when photographs
appear of RogerT on a beach . No doubt with a hanky on the aged pate.

I would imagine that lump in the sand in the photo is the nephew for complaining
about having to cycle when everyone else has the seat in the Austin Allegro.

Like the Typhoons and Chinooks over my head after dark it is all a bit academic.
ce.

Posted by: x2lls May 9 2012, 03:24 PM

Please, just agree to disagree and either email each other or talk about petrol prices, (the OP).
For me, I work 40 miles from home , in High Wycombe and live in Newbury. No chance of using public transport in any practical sense.

Rail
Newbury to Paddington, then tube to Marylebone, then out to High Wycombe and a bus to the office. And back
Approx two hours each way with at least two changes, no season ticket available, £61 per day.
That works out at £1220 per month and no gaurentee of a seat.

Bus
Yeah, right.

Car (Audi A4 Cabriolet, 07 plate)
Forty minutes door to door on a good day
Approx £83 per tank full(well it was yesterday), which lasts around four days.
Roof off in the summer.

Bicycle

Go figure

Posted by: andy1979uk May 9 2012, 03:26 PM

try a more economical car

Posted by: Roger T May 9 2012, 03:31 PM

I think, it's funny. The wrong quote being selected. A chinook can be very economical, maybe 2 or 3 to the nautical gallon.
As for the car, I don't believe it was mentioned, what engine. But still, he pays his taxes, he makes his choices.

I think we have someone less interested in a discussion and more interested in, saying the things that tries to wind people up. A shame.

Posted by: andy1979uk May 9 2012, 03:32 PM

Do you have to pick at everything? An audi cabriolet is not the most economical of choices, if you dont want to moan about the price of fuel then pick a more economical car.

Posted by: x2lls May 9 2012, 03:36 PM

That was not a complaint, it was a comparison.

Besides I like the car, and so does my wife, who bought it.

Posted by: Nothing Much May 9 2012, 03:37 PM

I guess you were replying to another post, considering my post was joshing the much maligned Allegro.

The A4 would be a good car. For myself and I sometimes drive 400 miles over a 2 day jaunt
a Yaris would have me on the therapist's bench.
Back to Petrol. My tank takes £85.00 to fill so I am able not to use it.
Especially when it is windy,raining,or any other reason I can think of.

Posted by: Nothing Much May 9 2012, 03:38 PM

Blimey you guys are quick. I thought I would have a cup of tea and the posts mount up.
ce

Posted by: Jonno May 9 2012, 03:49 PM

I think it has been a while since you tried that journey by rail - it's now £76 if you want to be there during the day!

Posted by: Roger T May 9 2012, 03:56 PM

Electric sunshine roof, wind in your face/hair (if you have any). Worth any extra cost.
Besides, as you said a comparison. I've stock piled hundreds of liters of unleaded, in case of nuclear winter.

NothingMuch seems to me like a BMW kind of guy. But not a smaller one, I imagine a big bus of a car. Could take my entire family to the beach with room for the cat and plenty of buckets. No sand, I hear in carpets it can be a nightmare.

Posted by: Nothing Much May 9 2012, 04:09 PM

Sand can be a problem.But hoggin ( not the forum of course) can be useful for
filling holes in threads.
Miss NM and fiancee( ow do say zat in french) are having an Audie RS 6
built at the moment.
She is the maniac driver. But after a BMW/Dad, she's not that bad.
(My points are about to disappear!).
ce

Posted by: Roger T May 9 2012, 04:21 PM

I googled Audi RS6. They look very nice. And apparently are very fast.
Envious, won't lie. Don't drive it work, things may go wrong, or some may disapprove (not me, the more the merrier) otherwise. Driving on the continent must be fun, in such a car. And an estate it seems, space for everything you could need.

Posted by: Nothing Much May 9 2012, 04:33 PM

As we seem to have drifted. She drove the old A6 to the Swiss lakes.
But was not happy at night on the wrong side of the road!

I always like estates. The BMW5 estate seems goodlooking too.

For her it will be just a fast car with a boot filled with riding gear.
I would hate to list the stuff I last saw. So it's a big 'orse and a fast car......
ce

Posted by: Strafin May 9 2012, 04:50 PM

Andy79 - please stop misquoting it is also very confusing, and you can work from 13 years of age

Roger T - you're antagonising him, and the few good points you make are eaten up in all the waffle. Your whole set up with your nephew is weird, if you want him to be well rounded I would back off him a little bit.

Posted by: Biker1 May 9 2012, 05:08 PM

So does anyone have any further thoughts about fuel being more expensive in Newbury than many other owns??

Posted by: Roger T May 9 2012, 05:13 PM

He's doing super, thanks for asking. Although yes I do ramble. Not intentional but, my mind wonders.. my fingers are far to slow to run away. I know it's a bit of a strange set up, but it works as we are all so close, and the Nephew is a genuinely nice young man, not saying that for family bias.
Maybe councilling would help, rest your mind at ease he won't end up confused.

Posted by: Nothing Much May 9 2012, 05:15 PM

A pint of owns in my neck of the woods is £3.60 for Adnams.
Perhaps a pint of brasso would be cheaper. Petrol is not so good.
ce in jest

Posted by: Nothing Much May 9 2012, 05:17 PM

As mentioned returns and No returns are darn quicker than I can do
ce

Posted by: Nothing Much May 9 2012, 05:29 PM

I know I post rubbish, (and another does too,) but it keeps the forum sane ...je pense.
ce

Posted by: Roger T May 9 2012, 05:58 PM

Oui mon cherie. Or something.

Posted by: NORTHENDER May 9 2012, 06:19 PM

The new Birkin & Gainsbourg?

Posted by: Nothing Much May 9 2012, 06:36 PM

Serge and Jane... That really was a lifetime ago.NORTHENDER.
ce

Posted by: Timbo May 13 2012, 09:32 PM

I have noticed fuel prices dropping slightly, both here and over in Reading. Annoyingly, BP here is having a refurbishment, there are hardly any pumps open (big queues in peak-hours) and they seem to never have any ultimate fuel.

Posted by: dannyboy May 14 2012, 08:47 AM

BP london road always seems 1-2p a litre more than the supermarkets in town.

Posted by: andy1979uk May 14 2012, 10:25 AM

The Shell garage in speen I find the best priced, BP in London road are the first to put it up and see if they will get away with it. Due to their prime location I guess.

Posted by: dannyboy May 14 2012, 10:32 AM

Paid £1.399 a litre for Diesel in Bristol at the weekend.

Posted by: andy1979uk May 28 2012, 08:53 AM

Petrol prices have dropped lately, although I paid £1.32 in Marlow on Sat and cheapest here is £1.36

Posted by: Ron May 28 2012, 07:28 PM

Bought diesel in Abingdon today at 135.9 yet in Newbury it is still 141.9. With Tesco 5p off I only paid 130.9!

Posted by: Biker1 May 29 2012, 05:18 AM

Bought diesel yesterday in Sainsbury's and then presented them with a 5p per litre off voucher from Tesco!
Doh!!

Posted by: NWNREADER May 29 2012, 07:30 PM

I suspect you put petrol in your car at that price.......
The websites don't show diesel anywhere near that around Abingdon....