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Newbury Today Forum _ Random Rants _ Incident at London Bridge

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 4 2017, 07:54 AM

I log "incidents" with Microsoft.

I'm not a crazed jihadi islamic extremist.

Call it what it is. And don't use this PC cr@p.

Also how many terrorist attacks in frequency does it take to become an insurgency??

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jun 4 2017, 08:48 AM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 4 2017, 08:54 AM) *
I log "incidents" with Microsoft.

I'm not a crazed jihadi islamic extremist.

Call it what it is. And don't use this PC cr@p.

Also how many terrorist attacks in frequency does it take to become an insurgency??

Obviously the offer of tea, hobnobs and a nice chat may not be working.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 4 2017, 11:11 AM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jun 4 2017, 09:48 AM) *
Obviously the offer of tea, hobnobs and a nice chat may not be working.


Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war.

Posted by: Turin Machine Jun 4 2017, 11:51 AM

I think TM's speech was an appropriate response. Root and branch.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 4 2017, 12:41 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Jun 4 2017, 12:51 PM) *
I think TM's speech was an appropriate response. Root and branch.


Agreed. This will just continue. You can't negotiate woth people who want to die. Round them up and where evidence is found, get rid. And tell the human rights lawyers to do one.

Posted by: Cognosco Jun 4 2017, 03:46 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 4 2017, 01:41 PM) *
Agreed. This will just continue. You can't negotiate woth people who want to die. Round them up and where evidence is found, get rid. And tell the human rights lawyers to do one.


But exactly who are you going to round up? huh.gif Until they, whoever they are, commit some offense then how are you going to detect them it would appear that those that have committed these atrocious acts were actually born in Britain as far as I am aware??

It's the same as saying round up all the burglars but until they have burgled or stating they are going to burgle who are you going to round up. Just wish it was that easy to say round them up and it was that easy to say who "they" are!

Posted by: newres Jun 4 2017, 03:55 PM

Although when Corbyn's PM, we'll I'm sure address the foreign policy issues that result in thousands of deaths of Muslims which I'm pretty sure will see the end of these "incidents". You reap what you sow.

Posted by: Turin Machine Jun 4 2017, 04:06 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 4 2017, 04:55 PM) *
Although when Corbyn's PM, we'll I'm sure address the foreign policy issues that result in thousands of deaths of Muslims which I'm pretty sure will see the end of these "incidents". You reap what you sow.

That's just so silly as to be laughable. When you have Muslims slaughtering other Muslims just because they belong to a different sects and have been for hundreds of years, when they massacre, enslave and rape everybody who is even remotely different in the name of their own perverse ideology I don't see doing nothing as being a terrific tactic.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 4 2017, 04:10 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Jun 4 2017, 05:06 PM) *
That's just so silly as to be laughable. When you have Muslims slaughtering other Muslims just because they belong to a different sects and have been for hundreds of years, when they massacre, enslave and rape everybody who is even remotely different in the name of their own perverse ideology I don't see doing nothing as being a terrific tactic.


Corbyn doesnt even have a shoot to kill policy.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-34836582/jeremy-corbyn-opposes-shoot-to-kill-policy

In this event many more people would have died.
Newres has been brainwashed. He's barking.


Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 4 2017, 04:15 PM

QUOTE (Cognosco @ Jun 4 2017, 04:46 PM) *
But exactly who are you going to round up? huh.gif Until they, whoever they are, commit some offense then how are you going to detect them it would appear that those that have committed these atrocious acts were actually born in Britain as far as I am aware??

It's the same as saying round up all the burglars but until they have burgled or stating they are going to burgle who are you going to round up. Just wish it was that easy to say round them up and it was that easy to say who "they" are!


MI5 know who they are and they sure aint burglars. Just so I get this right your solution to the problem is...

1. Get rid of Nuclear weapons
2. Dont interfere in any foreign war no matter what the circumstances
3. Disarm the Police
4.Wait for these poor misunderstood people to tire themselves out killing people before arresting them

��


Posted by: Turin Machine Jun 4 2017, 04:15 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 4 2017, 05:10 PM) *
Corbyn doesnt even have a shoot to kill policy.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-34836582/jeremy-corbyn-opposes-shoot-to-kill-policy

In this event many more people would have died.
Newres has been brainwashed. He's barking.

Not brainwashed, just, wrong. (My own personal view) and your right, it was only the prompt action of armed police that ended the slaughter. The emergency services did a wonderful job, hats off to all who responded.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 4 2017, 04:19 PM

DP

Posted by: newres Jun 4 2017, 04:20 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Jun 4 2017, 05:06 PM) *
That's just so silly as to be laughable. When you have Muslims slaughtering other Muslims just because they belong to a different sects and have been for hundreds of years, when they massacre, enslave and rape everybody who is even remotely different in the name of their own perverse ideology I don't see doing nothing as being a terrific tactic.

Remind me, did we have Muslim terrorists in the west before the Gulf wars?

Posted by: newres Jun 4 2017, 04:22 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Jun 4 2017, 05:15 PM) *
Not brainwashed, just, wrong. (My own personal view) and your right, it was only the prompt action of armed police that ended the slaughter. The emergency services did a wonderful job, hats off to all who responded.

No one would argue with the action of the police. I'm quite sure JC would fully support what was done.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 4 2017, 04:24 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 4 2017, 05:20 PM) *
Remind me, did we have Muslim terrorists in the west before the Gulf wars?


We had the IRA and we all know Corbyns views on them. And yes the world has changed. It does.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 4 2017, 04:25 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 4 2017, 05:22 PM) *
No one would argue with the action of the police. I'm quite sure JC would fully support what was done.


But he doesnt agree with shoot to kill? Or does he now?

Posted by: newres Jun 4 2017, 04:26 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 4 2017, 05:24 PM) *
We had the IRA and we all know Corbyns views on them. And yes the world has changed. It does.

So before we started invading and slaughtering Muslims they never attacked us. Is there a lesson there? Like the time we declared that we had no political or economic interest in Northern Ireland the IRA stopped attacking us? Weird eh?

Posted by: newres Jun 4 2017, 04:29 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 4 2017, 05:25 PM) *
But he doesnt agree with shoot to kill? Or does he now?

I don't know. I think we need to be very clear about what we mean by it. I'm quite sure that in that example any sane person would agree that it was right to shoot them and preserving their lives was of secondary importance. I think it's a very dangerous thing to give a carte blanche shoot to kill policy. Idiotic actually.

Posted by: Turin Machine Jun 4 2017, 04:30 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 4 2017, 05:22 PM) *
No one would argue with the action of the police. I'm quite sure JC would fully support what was done.

Except he doesn't, he opposes shoot to kill.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 4 2017, 04:31 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 4 2017, 05:26 PM) *
So before we started invading and slaughtering Muslims they never attacked us. Is there a lesson there? Like the time we declared that we had no political or economic interest in Northern Ireland the IRA stopped attacking us? Weird eh?


The rise of Wahabism as a popular cult part of Islam is relatively recent and they want to kill us all. Its not difficult. They want YOU dead. They want your family dead. They would cut your head off without a second thought. Good luck making peace with that.

Posted by: newres Jun 4 2017, 04:32 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Jun 4 2017, 05:30 PM) *
Except he doesn't, he opposes shoot to kill.

Understandably:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Jean_Charles_de_Menezes

Posted by: Turin Machine Jun 4 2017, 04:33 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 4 2017, 05:26 PM) *
So before we started invading and slaughtering Muslims they never attacked us. Is there a lesson there? Like the time we declared that we had no political or economic interest in Northern Ireland the IRA stopped attacking us? Weird eh?

Put simply, the genie's out of the bottle, no amount of denial will change that.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 4 2017, 04:34 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Jun 4 2017, 05:33 PM) *
Put simply, the genie's out of the bottle, no amount of denial will change that.


Quite.

Posted by: Turin Machine Jun 4 2017, 04:37 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 4 2017, 05:32 PM) *
Understandably:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Jean_Charles_de_Menezes

Can't have it both ways, can't applaud police for saving lives by shooting to kill whilst simultaneously opposing shoot to kill.

Anyway, I'm not going down this tired old route, you don't agree with me and I don't agree with you, not getting in to a slagging match.

Posted by: newres Jun 4 2017, 04:40 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Jun 4 2017, 05:33 PM) *
Put simply, the genie's out of the bottle, no amount of denial will change that.

And I reckon the moment we disassociate ourselves from the obscene western policy it'll go back in.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 4 2017, 04:55 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 4 2017, 05:40 PM) *
And I reckon the moment we disassociate ourselves from the obscene western policy it'll go back in.

La la land.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jun 4 2017, 05:01 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 4 2017, 05:55 PM) *
La la land.

Yup, didn't work for Chamberlain, won't work now. It's called appeasement and last time it led to six million jews being murdered. If Corbyn gets in just wait till all the libian and Syrian terrorists just walk Into Britain. This will seem like the good old days in comparison.

Posted by: newres Jun 4 2017, 05:04 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jun 4 2017, 06:01 PM) *
Yup, didn't work for Chamberlain, won't work now. It's called appeasement and last time it led to six million jews being murdered. If Corbyn gets in just wait till all the libian and Syrian terrorists just walk Into Britain. This will seem like the good old days in comparison.

Well drone attacks aren't working.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jun 4 2017, 05:07 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 4 2017, 06:04 PM) *
Well drone attacks aren't working.

Boots on the ground. Get in, drag the rats into the daylight and neutralise them. Cut off the head and the body dies.

Posted by: Simon Kirby Jun 4 2017, 05:17 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 4 2017, 05:24 PM) *
We had the IRA and we all know Corbyns views on them. And yes the world has changed. It does.

As I understand it Corbyn's position on terrorism, war and violence is that it is deplorable but in order to bring peace you have to talk to all sides in an argument and seek to remove tyranny and injustice. Corbyn spoke to Sinn Fein, Hamas, and Hezbollah when no one else was talking to them because there needs to be dialog and understanding for there to be peace. He also supported gay rights years before it was tolerably acceptably to be gay, he was arrested for protesting against the South African regeime in support of Mandela, he oppsed the despot Pinochet of Chile who got on very well with Thatcher, he protested against the UK government selling arms to Iraq in the years before the gulf war when Saddam was good for trade, and he has spoken out strongly against the UK selling £billions of arms to the despotic regime of Saudi Arabia.


Posted by: newres Jun 4 2017, 05:25 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jun 4 2017, 06:07 PM) *
Boots on the ground. Get in, drag the rats into the daylight and neutralise them. Cut off the head and the body dies.

I think we found the price to pay too high when we did that. You can't win a war. Abhorrent as they are, eventually the Taliban may well be back in power in Afghanistan.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jun 4 2017, 05:28 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 4 2017, 06:25 PM) *
I think we found the price to pay too high when we did that. You can't win a war.

Not a student of history then?

Posted by: Cognosco Jun 4 2017, 05:31 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 4 2017, 05:15 PM) *
MI5 know who they are and they sure aint burglars. Just so I get this right your solution to the problem is...

1. Get rid of Nuclear weapons
2. Dont interfere in any foreign war no matter what the circumstances
3. Disarm the Police
4.Wait for these poor misunderstood people to tire themselves out killing people before arresting them

��


Where did you get the idea that the above you have quoted are my solutions??? huh.gif
show me where I have stated that please?

If MI5 knew who they are why have they been allowed to commit these atrocities, are you saying MI5 are not doing their job properly? huh.gif

I was certainly not disagreeing with dealing severely with any terrorists just pointing out that it would be very difficult to round "them" up as you say when you are unable to identify "them"?

Please explain how you identify someone who is going to commit a terrorist act from someone who is not? huh.gif




Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 4 2017, 05:45 PM

QUOTE (Cognosco @ Jun 4 2017, 06:31 PM) *
Where did you get the idea that the above you have quoted are my solutions??? huh.gif
show me where I have stated that please?

If MI5 knew who they are why have they been allowed to commit these atrocities, are you saying MI5 are not doing their job properly? huh.gif

I was certainly not disagreeing with dealing severely with any terrorists just pointing out that it would be very difficult to round "them" up as you say when you are unable to identify "them"?

Please explain how you identify someone who is going to commit a terrorist act from someone who is not? huh.gif


You would rather wait to see if someone commits an atrocity rather than apprehend them before? And Im sure you'd be the first trying to get them released as they hadn't killed anyone just yet.

Posted by: On the edge Jun 4 2017, 05:56 PM

QUOTE (Cognosco @ Jun 4 2017, 06:31 PM) *
Where did you get the idea that the above you have quoted are my solutions??? huh.gif
show me where I have stated that please?

If MI5 knew who they are why have they been allowed to commit these atrocities, are you saying MI5 are not doing their job properly? huh.gif

I was certainly not disagreeing with dealing severely with any terrorists just pointing out that it would be very difficult to round "them" up as you say when you are unable to identify "them"?

Please explain how you identify someone who is going to commit a terrorist act from someone who is not? huh.gif


It's quite simple as such things usually are:

Terrorists: Dress in robes, have black beards, hold black round bombs
Burglars: Dress in horizontally striped tops, wear black masks, carry bag printed SWAG
Suspects: Don't leave home often, stay in bedroom playing with computer

Of course, the proper guides are out of print, but any 1950s comic will have illustrations except for suspects and they don't take much imagination to spot.

Increased surveillance is a big job, but it's not all bad. There are many intangible benefits. Such as revealing anyone 'trying it on' with the schools admissions process and making sure the Mrs Miggins of this World don't put their bottles in the paper bins. That solves the home issue.

To sort abroad, the answer is clear, nuke them. Simple as that. Plus it properly justifies Trident.


Posted by: je suis Charlie Jun 4 2017, 06:01 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 4 2017, 06:56 PM) *
It's quite simple as such things usually are:

Terrorists: Dress in robes, have black beards, hold black round bombs
Burglars: Dress in horizontally striped tops, wear black masks, carry bag printed SWAG
Suspects: Don't leave home often, stay in bedroom playing with computer

Of course, the proper guides are out of print, but any 1950s comic will have illustrations except for suspects and they don't take much imagination to spot.

Increased surveillance is a big job, but it's not all bad. There are many intangible benefits. Such as revealing anyone 'trying it on' with the schools admissions process and making sure the Mrs Miggins of this World don't put their bottles in the paper bins. That solves the home issue.

To sort abroad, the answer is clear, nuke them. Simple as that. Plus it properly justifies Trident.

Spot on. Congratulations, welcome to the real world. Just leave your unicorn at the door. 😁

Posted by: Cognosco Jun 4 2017, 06:17 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 4 2017, 06:45 PM) *
You would rather wait to see if someone commits an atrocity rather than apprehend them before? And Im sure you'd be the first trying to get them released as they hadn't killed anyone just yet.


Just answer the question asked. How do you identify someone who is going to commit an atrocity?

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jun 4 2017, 06:24 PM

QUOTE (Cognosco @ Jun 4 2017, 07:17 PM) *
Just answer the question asked. How do you identify someone who is going to commit an atrocity?

If they're on the list bring em in, give me fifteen minutes with a truck battery and some jump leads. Soon see what they know or don't know. 😎

Posted by: newres Jun 4 2017, 06:30 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jun 4 2017, 06:28 PM) *
Not a student of history then?

Typo, with these people.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 4 2017, 06:34 PM

QUOTE (Cognosco @ Jun 4 2017, 07:17 PM) *
Just answer the question asked. How do you identify someone who is going to commit an atrocity?


I'd start with anyone practicing shariah. Thats normally a good indicator. Oh and those holding up placards with things like "death to the infidels" and "make London Londonistan" Also anyone returning from a "holiday" to places like Somalia, Libya, or an extended trip to Turkey. Oh and yes profiling works.

Then Id insist on CCTV and sound in all the mosques.

It may impinge on freedoms but its a small price to pay.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jun 4 2017, 06:45 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 4 2017, 07:34 PM) *
I'd start with anyone practicing shariah. Thats normally a good indicator. Oh and those holding up placards with things like "death to the infidels" and "make London Londonistan" Also anyone returning from a "holiday" to places like Somalia, Libya, or an extended trip to Turkey. Oh and yes profiling works.

Then Id insist on CCTV and sound in all the mosques.

It may impinge on freedoms but its a small price to pay.

On the basis of if they've nothing to hide, then, why not?

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 4 2017, 06:55 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jun 4 2017, 07:45 PM) *
On the basis of if they've nothing to hide, then, why not?


More than happy to have it in Churches as well just in case a few old biddies are planning some atrocity.

Posted by: On the edge Jun 4 2017, 07:13 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 4 2017, 07:34 PM) *
I'd start with anyone practicing shariah. Thats normally a good indicator. Oh and those holding up placards with things like "death to the infidels" and "make London Londonistan" Also anyone returning from a "holiday" to places like Somalia, Libya, or an extended trip to Turkey. Oh and yes profiling works.

Then Id insist on CCTV and sound in all the mosques.

It may impinge on freedoms but its a small price to pay.


Can't we delete 'extended' from the Turkey requirement? I'd also round up anyone who looks as if they come from these places; even just for questioning. Easy pickings, just stand outside RBH staff entrance....

Posted by: Cognosco Jun 4 2017, 07:42 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 4 2017, 07:34 PM) *
I'd start with anyone practicing shariah. Thats normally a good indicator. Oh and those holding up placards with things like "death to the infidels" and "make London Londonistan" Also anyone returning from a "holiday" to places like Somalia, Libya, or an extended trip to Turkey. Oh and yes profiling works.

Then Id insist on CCTV and sound in all the mosques.

It may impinge on freedoms but its a small price to pay.


So what you are suggesting is round up all Muslims, is that a correct interpretation?

And how do you know someone has been on holiday in those countries you have listed if they first go to another country and then back to another EUropean country before coming back to Britain?

I am not disagreeing with the idea of rounding up terrorists but trying to demonstrate it is not quite as easy as you are implying. If you can demonstrate just how easy it is I feel sure the security services, police and the General public at large will be very grateful indeed.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 4 2017, 07:52 PM

QUOTE (Cognosco @ Jun 4 2017, 08:42 PM) *
So what you are suggesting is round up all Muslims, is that a correct interpretation?

And how do you know someone has been on holiday in those countries you have listed if they first go to another country and then back to another EUropean country before coming back to Britain?

I am not disagreeing with the idea of rounding up terrorists but trying to demonstrate it is not quite as easy as you are implying. If you can demonstrate just how easy it is I feel sure the security services, police and the General public at large will be very grateful indeed.


Where have I said all Muslims? You said that.

Posted by: Cognosco Jun 4 2017, 08:09 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 4 2017, 08:52 PM) *
Where have I said all Muslims? You said that.


Read my last post again!

That was how I interpreted your reply, hence the "is that correct" which is why I asked you to clarify?

Do try to answer the queries given rather than try to obfuscate with a non answer.

All I am trying to elucidate is how do you identify and round up those who you think will be going to commit these terrible types of atrocities. If you can demonstrate how to do this you will have my full backing plus the gratitude of most Britain's.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 4 2017, 08:20 PM

QUOTE (Cognosco @ Jun 4 2017, 09:09 PM) *
Read my last post again!

That was how I interpreted your reply, hence the "is that correct" which is why I asked you to clarify?

Do try to answer the queries given rather than try to obfuscate with a non answer.

All I am trying to elucidate is how do you identify and round up those who you think will be going to commit these terrible types of atrocities. If you can demonstrate how to do this you will have my full backing plus the gratitude of most Britain's.


Go hug a terrorist. I have already suggested ways. You chose to ignore them. Cos it suits your agenda. You can come back again if you like as I know you have to have the last word. The pub bore.

Posted by: newres Jun 5 2017, 05:27 AM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 4 2017, 09:20 PM) *
Go hug a terrorist. I have already suggested ways. You chose to ignore them. Cos it suits your agenda. You can come back again if you like as I know you have to have the last word. The pub bore.

As opposed to the forum bore.

Posted by: Cognosco Jun 5 2017, 06:14 AM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 4 2017, 09:20 PM) *
Go hug a terrorist. I have already suggested ways. You chose to ignore them. Cos it suits your agenda. You can come back again if you like as I know you have to have the last word. The pub bore.


You have failed to suggest ways to identify future terrorists and just resort to insults as usual.
I even agreed to round up these terrorists with you if you were able to explain how to identify them. You completely failed to do so.
You insult the security services and police by suggesting they have failed in their duties by not rounding up these terrorists as you imply it is very easy to identify them before they committed these atrocities.

Unless these individuals make clear and dangerous threats, and of course not many are going to do that, I certainly would not be able to detect one walking through any of our town's and cities.

If you have a system to detect them then please get in touch with the security services as they need as much assistance as possible instead of your implying they have failed in your eyes by not rounding them up.


Posted by: On the edge Jun 5 2017, 06:21 AM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 4 2017, 09:20 PM) *
Go hug a terrorist. I have already suggested ways. You chose to ignore them. Cos it suits your agenda. You can come back again if you like as I know you have to have the last word. The pub bore.


Yep, Cognosco is wholly 'on side'. All he wants to know is how we can do it with one added word, successfully. Yes, you have suggested ways, but they've all been tried in various places before and simply don't work. Those solutions are like saying the common cold can be easily cured, if the sufferer simply drinks bleach.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jun 5 2017, 08:10 AM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 5 2017, 07:21 AM) *
Yep, Cognosco is wholly 'on side'. All he wants to know is how we can do it with one added word, successfully. Yes, you have suggested ways, but they've all been tried in various places before and simply don't work. Those solutions are like saying the common cold can be easily cured, if the sufferer simply drinks bleach.

Well, you can always console yourselves with the thought that if hug a Jihadist don't work you can always defend your family and friends by waving a unicorn horn at them. That'll work. Personally I think I spot a new opportunity, I'm looking to invest in a company that makes body bags. Gotta be a winner.

Posted by: On the edge Jun 5 2017, 08:35 AM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jun 5 2017, 09:10 AM) *
Well, you can always console yourselves with the thought that if hug a Jihadist don't work you can always defend your family and friends by waving a unicorn horn at them. That'll work. Personally I think I spot a new opportunity, I'm looking to invest in a company that makes body bags. Gotta be a winner.


So, then, what's your answer, or hasn't the Mail got round to telling you what to say yet?
laugh.gif

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jun 5 2017, 08:37 AM

Your next PM.
"Throughout the Eighties and Nineties, Corbyn and McDonnell were the IRA's most vigorous allies in Westminster, attending the annual gathering of the Wolfe Tone Society, an organisation which honours dead IRA members and imprisoned volunteers. The event's 1986 programme declared: 'Force of arms is the only method capable of bringing about a free and united socialist Ireland.'
IRA man Patrick Magee was in 1986 convicted at the Old Bailey of murdering five people in the Brighton bombing. Corbyn was arrested for staging a protest outside against the strip-searching of the killer's co-defendants."
"At an Irish Republican event in 1987, Corbyn took part in a minute's silence to commemorate eight IRA men shot dead by the SAS as they travelled to attack a police station in County Armagh. 'I'm happy to commemorate all those who died fighting for an independent Ireland,' he said.
Corbyn appointed as research assistant, Ronan Bennett, a suspected IRA man who'd served 13 months in prison for fatally shooting a policeman in the chest (his conviction was overturned on appeal). Unsurprisingly, Bennett was banned from the Commons — a decision described by Corbyn as 'a disgraceful attack and character assassination of an innocent man'."

During the 2015 Labour leadership election, Corbyn was repeatedly asked whether he condemned murders by the IRA but refused to answer, saying only: 'I condemn what was done by the British Army as well as the other sides.'
"Last month, on a Sunday morning TV interview, Corbyn was asked five times to 'unequivocally condemn' the IRA. Five times he declined."
The other one.
Diane Abbott endorsed the IRA in an interview with pro-Republican journal Labour And Ireland in 1984, saying: 'Every defeat of the British state is a victory for all of us. A defeat in Northern Ireland would be a defeat indeed.' Challenged last week, she said she no longer had the same views, 33 years on.
After the Brighton Bomb, in which the IRA murdered five people, London Labour Briefing published a reader's letter stating: 'What do you call four dead Tories? A start!' Next to a picture of Lord Tebbit, who was seriously hurt (and whose wife would be wheelchair-bound for life) it added: 'Try riding your bike now, Norman!'
Weeks after the Brighton attack, Corbyn invited two IRA terrorists to the Commons for a PR stunt where they 'protested about strip-searches in Northern Ireland's prisons'.

"Less than a month after becoming an MP in 1983, Corbyn 'organised a Commons visit and meeting' for Gerry Adams.
Gerry Adams spoke in Corbyn's constituency in 1987, asking the Labour Party to formally endorse his cause. His remarks were 'given a standing ovation' by Corbyn.
A few weeks after the IRA's 1996 bombing of Manchester which caused massive devastation, Corbyn agreed to host the launch of Adams's autobiography in the Commons. The book included an account (allegedly fictional) of killing a British soldier, plus a passage in which Adams declared: 'It might, or might not, be right to kill, but sometimes it is necessary.' The event was cancelled after the then Labour leader Tony Blair threatened to kick Corbyn out of the Labour Party."

During a 1988 ceremony to commemorate the death of the IRA hunger striker Bobby Sands, Corbyn criticised the Anglo-Irish Agreement, precursor to the Peace Process, declaring: 'It strengthens rather than weakens the border… and those of us who wish to see a united Ireland oppose the agreement for that reason.'
John McDonnell attempted to derail pre-Good Friday Agreement negotiations for a new power-sharing assembly in the late Nineties, telling the IRA's official newspaper, An Phoblacht: 'An assembly is not what people have laid down their lives for over 30 years.'
Corbyn has opposed at least 13 Prevention of Terrorism bills. In Socialist Campaign Group News, he has said he regularly hosts meetings by 'international solidarity groups' at which 'many express sympathy for armed insurrection'. Corbyn asked: 'Are they, or those attending, to be criminalised?'
Months before 9/11, Diane Abbott voted against a bill to proscribe al-Qaeda as a terrorist organisation. This was one of 30 occasions when she opposed anti-terror legislation. Last month, she refused to apologise, saying the bill would have wrongly banned a number of 'dissident' groups, too.
In 2009, Corbyn called for Hamas to be taken off the terror list, telling Al Jazeera: 'Contacts with Hamas by politicians are increasing day after day. All want to find a peaceful solution to the problem.'
Following the terror attacks in Paris in 2015, Corbyn said he opposed police being allowed to shoot terror suspects, saying he's 'not happy with the shoot-to-kill policy in general'.



Posted by: Turin Machine Jun 5 2017, 11:21 AM

Two words,
Leopard, spots.

Posted by: On the edge Jun 5 2017, 11:30 AM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jun 5 2017, 09:37 AM) *
Your next PM.
"Throughout the Eighties and Nineties, Corbyn and McDonnell were the IRA's most vigorous allies in Westminster, attending the annual gathering of the Wolfe Tone Society, an organisation which honours dead IRA members and imprisoned volunteers. The event's 1986 programme declared: 'Force of arms is the only method capable of bringing about a free and united socialist Ireland.'
IRA man Patrick Magee was in 1986 convicted at the Old Bailey of murdering five people in the Brighton bombing. Corbyn was arrested for staging a protest outside against the strip-searching of the killer's co-defendants."
"At an Irish Republican event in 1987, Corbyn took part in a minute's silence to commemorate eight IRA men shot dead by the SAS as they travelled to attack a police station in County Armagh. 'I'm happy to commemorate all those who died fighting for an independent Ireland,' he said.
Corbyn appointed as research assistant, Ronan Bennett, a suspected IRA man who'd served 13 months in prison for fatally shooting a policeman in the chest (his conviction was overturned on appeal). Unsurprisingly, Bennett was banned from the Commons — a decision described by Corbyn as 'a disgraceful attack and character assassination of an innocent man'."

During the 2015 Labour leadership election, Corbyn was repeatedly asked whether he condemned murders by the IRA but refused to answer, saying only: 'I condemn what was done by the British Army as well as the other sides.'
"Last month, on a Sunday morning TV interview, Corbyn was asked five times to 'unequivocally condemn' the IRA. Five times he declined."
The other one.
Diane Abbott endorsed the IRA in an interview with pro-Republican journal Labour And Ireland in 1984, saying: 'Every defeat of the British state is a victory for all of us. A defeat in Northern Ireland would be a defeat indeed.' Challenged last week, she said she no longer had the same views, 33 years on.
After the Brighton Bomb, in which the IRA murdered five people, London Labour Briefing published a reader's letter stating: 'What do you call four dead Tories? A start!' Next to a picture of Lord Tebbit, who was seriously hurt (and whose wife would be wheelchair-bound for life) it added: 'Try riding your bike now, Norman!'
Weeks after the Brighton attack, Corbyn invited two IRA terrorists to the Commons for a PR stunt where they 'protested about strip-searches in Northern Ireland's prisons'.

"Less than a month after becoming an MP in 1983, Corbyn 'organised a Commons visit and meeting' for Gerry Adams.
Gerry Adams spoke in Corbyn's constituency in 1987, asking the Labour Party to formally endorse his cause. His remarks were 'given a standing ovation' by Corbyn.
A few weeks after the IRA's 1996 bombing of Manchester which caused massive devastation, Corbyn agreed to host the launch of Adams's autobiography in the Commons. The book included an account (allegedly fictional) of killing a British soldier, plus a passage in which Adams declared: 'It might, or might not, be right to kill, but sometimes it is necessary.' The event was cancelled after the then Labour leader Tony Blair threatened to kick Corbyn out of the Labour Party."

During a 1988 ceremony to commemorate the death of the IRA hunger striker Bobby Sands, Corbyn criticised the Anglo-Irish Agreement, precursor to the Peace Process, declaring: 'It strengthens rather than weakens the border… and those of us who wish to see a united Ireland oppose the agreement for that reason.'
John McDonnell attempted to derail pre-Good Friday Agreement negotiations for a new power-sharing assembly in the late Nineties, telling the IRA's official newspaper, An Phoblacht: 'An assembly is not what people have laid down their lives for over 30 years.'
Corbyn has opposed at least 13 Prevention of Terrorism bills. In Socialist Campaign Group News, he has said he regularly hosts meetings by 'international solidarity groups' at which 'many express sympathy for armed insurrection'. Corbyn asked: 'Are they, or those attending, to be criminalised?'
Months before 9/11, Diane Abbott voted against a bill to proscribe al-Qaeda as a terrorist organisation. This was one of 30 occasions when she opposed anti-terror legislation. Last month, she refused to apologise, saying the bill would have wrongly banned a number of 'dissident' groups, too.
In 2009, Corbyn called for Hamas to be taken off the terror list, telling Al Jazeera: 'Contacts with Hamas by politicians are increasing day after day. All want to find a peaceful solution to the problem.'
Following the terror attacks in Paris in 2015, Corbyn said he opposed police being allowed to shoot terror suspects, saying he's 'not happy with the shoot-to-kill policy in general'.


Gosh! Didn't expect the bile tank pumped; hit the wrong button there.

All we added was how you do identify them? Not anything else, simply how do you identify them? In spite of all those words, still no answer and Google still can't think!

Posted by: Andy Capp Jun 5 2017, 12:02 PM

Let's not mention Maria Gatland and also the arms to Saudi Arabia and Iraq of course.

Posted by: Turin Machine Jun 5 2017, 12:57 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Jun 5 2017, 01:02 PM) *
Let's not mention Maria Gatland and also the arms to Saudi Arabia and Iraq of course.

Did the arms industry suddenly spring into existence during a Tory government? Are you sure?

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jun 5 2017, 01:00 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 5 2017, 12:30 PM) *
Gosh! Didn't expect the bile tank pumped; hit the wrong button there.

All we added was how you do identify them? Not anything else, simply how do you identify them? In spite of all those words, still no answer and Google still can't think!

"The facts ma'am, just the facts."

Posted by: Turin Machine Jun 5 2017, 01:05 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Jun 5 2017, 01:02 PM) *
Let's not mention Maria Gatland and also the arms to Saudi Arabia and Iraq of course.

You might find some research regarding Labours selling of arms to Indonesia interesting. A conflict some still regard as a Holocaust.

Posted by: Simon Kirby Jun 5 2017, 01:30 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Jun 5 2017, 02:05 PM) *
You might find some research regarding Labours selling of arms to Indonesia interesting. A conflict some still regard as a Holocaust.

And should we forever make the same mistakes, or should we stop profiting from war and instead look to resolve conflict where we can?

Posted by: Turin Machine Jun 5 2017, 01:45 PM

QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Jun 5 2017, 02:30 PM) *
And should we forever make the same mistakes, or should we stop profiting from war and instead look to resolve conflict where we can?

"Only the dead will never see another war"

Plato

Posted by: Andy Capp Jun 5 2017, 02:24 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Jun 5 2017, 01:57 PM) *
Did the arms industry suddenly spring into existence during a Tory government? Are you sure?

I never said it did or didn't, but throwing stones in glass houses is ill advised.

Posted by: On the edge Jun 5 2017, 03:34 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jun 5 2017, 02:00 PM) *
"The facts ma'am, just the facts."


Its pretty clear you don't know what a 'fact' is dear boy. So I'll simply say what they often shout in the House when a Minister doesn't know....'Answer, answer'.

Posted by: newres Jun 5 2017, 04:21 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jun 5 2017, 09:37 AM) *
Your next PM.
"Throughout the Eighties and Nineties, Corbyn and McDonnell were the IRA's most vigorous allies in Westminster, attending the annual gathering of the Wolfe Tone Society, an organisation which honours dead IRA members and imprisoned volunteers. The event's 1986 programme declared: 'Force of arms is the only method capable of bringing about a free and united socialist Ireland.'
IRA man Patrick Magee was in 1986 convicted at the Old Bailey of murdering five people in the Brighton bombing. Corbyn was arrested for staging a protest outside against the strip-searching of the killer's co-defendants."
"At an Irish Republican event in 1987, Corbyn took part in a minute's silence to commemorate eight IRA men shot dead by the SAS as they travelled to attack a police station in County Armagh. 'I'm happy to commemorate all those who died fighting for an independent Ireland,' he said.
Corbyn appointed as research assistant, Ronan Bennett, a suspected IRA man who'd served 13 months in prison for fatally shooting a policeman in the chest (his conviction was overturned on appeal). Unsurprisingly, Bennett was banned from the Commons — a decision described by Corbyn as 'a disgraceful attack and character assassination of an innocent man'."

During the 2015 Labour leadership election, Corbyn was repeatedly asked whether he condemned murders by the IRA but refused to answer, saying only: 'I condemn what was done by the British Army as well as the other sides.'
"Last month, on a Sunday morning TV interview, Corbyn was asked five times to 'unequivocally condemn' the IRA. Five times he declined."
The other one.
Diane Abbott endorsed the IRA in an interview with pro-Republican journal Labour And Ireland in 1984, saying: 'Every defeat of the British state is a victory for all of us. A defeat in Northern Ireland would be a defeat indeed.' Challenged last week, she said she no longer had the same views, 33 years on.
After the Brighton Bomb, in which the IRA murdered five people, London Labour Briefing published a reader's letter stating: 'What do you call four dead Tories? A start!' Next to a picture of Lord Tebbit, who was seriously hurt (and whose wife would be wheelchair-bound for life) it added: 'Try riding your bike now, Norman!'
Weeks after the Brighton attack, Corbyn invited two IRA terrorists to the Commons for a PR stunt where they 'protested about strip-searches in Northern Ireland's prisons'.

"Less than a month after becoming an MP in 1983, Corbyn 'organised a Commons visit and meeting' for Gerry Adams.
Gerry Adams spoke in Corbyn's constituency in 1987, asking the Labour Party to formally endorse his cause. His remarks were 'given a standing ovation' by Corbyn.
A few weeks after the IRA's 1996 bombing of Manchester which caused massive devastation, Corbyn agreed to host the launch of Adams's autobiography in the Commons. The book included an account (allegedly fictional) of killing a British soldier, plus a passage in which Adams declared: 'It might, or might not, be right to kill, but sometimes it is necessary.' The event was cancelled after the then Labour leader Tony Blair threatened to kick Corbyn out of the Labour Party."

During a 1988 ceremony to commemorate the death of the IRA hunger striker Bobby Sands, Corbyn criticised the Anglo-Irish Agreement, precursor to the Peace Process, declaring: 'It strengthens rather than weakens the border… and those of us who wish to see a united Ireland oppose the agreement for that reason.'
John McDonnell attempted to derail pre-Good Friday Agreement negotiations for a new power-sharing assembly in the late Nineties, telling the IRA's official newspaper, An Phoblacht: 'An assembly is not what people have laid down their lives for over 30 years.'
Corbyn has opposed at least 13 Prevention of Terrorism bills. In Socialist Campaign Group News, he has said he regularly hosts meetings by 'international solidarity groups' at which 'many express sympathy for armed insurrection'. Corbyn asked: 'Are they, or those attending, to be criminalised?'
Months before 9/11, Diane Abbott voted against a bill to proscribe al-Qaeda as a terrorist organisation. This was one of 30 occasions when she opposed anti-terror legislation. Last month, she refused to apologise, saying the bill would have wrongly banned a number of 'dissident' groups, too.
In 2009, Corbyn called for Hamas to be taken off the terror list, telling Al Jazeera: 'Contacts with Hamas by politicians are increasing day after day. All want to find a peaceful solution to the problem.'
Following the terror attacks in Paris in 2015, Corbyn said he opposed police being allowed to shoot terror suspects, saying he's 'not happy with the shoot-to-kill policy in general'.

So?

Posted by: Simon Kirby Jun 5 2017, 06:12 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jun 5 2017, 09:37 AM) *
Your next PM...
Following the terror attacks in Paris in 2015, Corbyn said he opposed police being allowed to shoot terror suspects, saying he's 'not happy with the shoot-to-kill policy in general'.

In the wake of the terror attack in Parish Laura Kuenssberg of the BBC asked Corbyn
QUOTE
“If we saw the kind of horror in Paris here, if you were prime minister, would you order security services on to the street to stop people being killed?”

to which Corbyn responded
QUOTE
Of course you’d bring people on to the streets to prevent and ensure there is safety within our society, much better that’s done by the police than security services, much better we have strong and effective community policing, neighbourhood policing and a cohesive society that brings people together, obviously that is essential and so that’s one of the messages I’ll be putting to the prime minister.

So a measured proportionate response that would include deadly force if necessary, but an emphasis on working to prevent the problem ever occuring rather than a "shoot the lot of them and let god sort them out" answer that the reactionary right are agiating for.

The "shoot-to-kill" answer was a response to a different question, though Kuenssberg cut her interview together to imply otherwise. This was the question:
QUOTE
“If you were prime minister would you be happy to order people, police or military, to shoot to kill on Britain’s streets.”


to which Corbyn responded as reported:
QUOTE
I am not happy with the shoot to kill policy in general. I think that is quite dangerous and I think it can often be counterproductive. I think you have to have security which prevents people firing off weapons where you can and there are various degrees of doing things, as we know, but the idea you end up with a war on the streets is not a good thing. Surely you have to work to try and prevent these things happening. That has got to be the priority.


and Corbyn has further clarified his position:
QUOTE
Our priority must be public safety and I will take whatever action is necessary and effective to protect the security of our people and our country. That includes full authority for the police to use whatever force is necessary to protect and save life as they did last night, as they did in Westminster in March.


So the use of deadly force when it's imperative, including shoot-to-kill, but only if it's imperitive and not in general.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 5 2017, 06:44 PM


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40165646

I remember watching this program and thinking I wonder how long until.... Not exactly hiding... Were they?

Anyone like this should be in prison in solitary. Period. And not on the streets.


Posted by: newres Jun 5 2017, 06:53 PM

QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Jun 5 2017, 07:12 PM) *
In the wake of the terror attack in Parish Laura Kuenssberg of the BBC asked Corbyn

to which Corbyn responded

So a measured proportionate response that would include deadly force if necessary, but an emphasis on working to prevent the problem ever occuring rather than a "shoot the lot of them and let god sort them out" answer that the reactionary right are agiating for.

The "shoot-to-kill" answer was a response to a different question, though Kuenssberg cut her interview together to imply otherwise. This was the question:


to which Corbyn responded as reported:


and Corbyn has further clarified his position:


So the use of deadly force when it's imperative, including shoot-to-kill, but only if it's imperitive and not in general.

Wasting your time. These people aren't interested in truth.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 5 2017, 06:57 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 5 2017, 07:53 PM) *
Wasting your time. These people aren't interested in truth.

These people? Bit of a sweeping generalisation. Bigot.

Posted by: newres Jun 5 2017, 07:02 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 5 2017, 07:57 PM) *
These people? Bit of a sweeping generalisation. Bigot.

People in glass houses.....

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 5 2017, 07:14 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 5 2017, 08:02 PM) *
People in glass houses.....

Your glass house has a white flag on it. Mine would have barbed wire and machine guns. Don't ask me to save you though. You reap what you sow. 👍

Posted by: newres Jun 5 2017, 07:37 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 5 2017, 08:14 PM) *
Your glass house has a white flag on it. Mine would have barbed wire and machine guns. Don't ask me to save you though. You reap what you sow. 👍

Seriously, you are off your rocker. rolleyes.gif

Posted by: x2lls Jun 5 2017, 07:37 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 5 2017, 07:44 PM) *
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40165646

I remember watching this program and thinking I wonder how long until.... Not exactly hiding... Were they?

Anyone like this should be in prison in solitary. Period. And not on the streets.



Butt and Barking says it all.

Posted by: x2lls Jun 5 2017, 07:40 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 5 2017, 07:57 PM) *
These people? Bit of a sweeping generalisation. Bigot.



He said the same in regard to 'The locals won't be happy' too.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 5 2017, 07:48 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 5 2017, 08:37 PM) *
Seriously, you are off your rocker. rolleyes.gif


We'll see how it pans out. Personally I think we face the biggest threat to the West since WW2. You are either a Churchillian or a Chamberlain. Me.. I'm with Churchill.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 5 2017, 07:50 PM

QUOTE (x2lls @ Jun 5 2017, 08:40 PM) *
He said the same in regard to 'The locals won't be happy' too.


The langauage of the "educated" liberal elite!!! More than fond of correcting peoples grammar as well. Say's it all....

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jun 5 2017, 08:13 PM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Jun 5 2017, 03:24 PM) *
I never said it did or didn't, but throwing stones in glass houses is ill advised.

so why throw them Mr Edit

Posted by: Turin Machine Jun 5 2017, 08:18 PM

I think he assumes "if I throw enough mud at the wall some of it might stick" Oh, and I noticed the clumsy (and seemingly) nonsensical edit.

Posted by: Turin Machine Jun 5 2017, 08:19 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 5 2017, 08:02 PM) *
People in glass houses.....

Shouldn't leave the curtains open when undressing.

Posted by: Turin Machine Jun 5 2017, 08:22 PM

I'll bet a tenner right now that the first copper who shoots and kills a terrorist without formal permission in triplicate will be in very hot water. Where can I train as a Yooman rites lawyer??

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 5 2017, 08:33 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Jun 5 2017, 09:22 PM) *
I'll bet a tenner right now that the first copper who shoots and kills a terrorist without formal permission in triplicate will be in very hot water. Where can I train as a Yooman rites lawyer??


Shami, Cherie, and Amal are on speeddial...

Posted by: On the edge Jun 5 2017, 08:45 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Jun 5 2017, 09:22 PM) *
I'll bet a tenner right now that the first copper who shoots and kills a terrorist without formal permission in triplicate will be in very hot water. Where can I train as a Yooman rites lawyer??


This is something that greatly disturbs me. Training and managing Military and Police in weapons is critical and difficult. In my view, claims of misuse should always be an internal issue. It is actually very very difficult to train someone to use a firearm with the possibility that they will be expected to take life. If it were not, then quite the wrong type of person is being deployed. Therefore, I find it utterly repugnant that we have let our legal system issue process against individuals on their own. Solicitors are supposed to be officers of the Supreme Court and not the personal hire of private individuals. We've seen one famous name collapse, it would be bad law if another rose in its place. And yes, I've been in correspondence with our MP about this; the result being quite positive.

Its well worth reading the Human Rights Act carefully and making sure your MP is well aware if you feel the legal profession are abusing their position by pursuing scurrilous claims.

Posted by: Andy Capp Jun 5 2017, 09:01 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Jun 5 2017, 09:18 PM) *
I think he assumes "if I throw enough mud at the wall some of it might stick" Oh, and I noticed the clumsy (and seemingly) nonsensical edit.

What are you talking about?

Posted by: Turin Machine Jun 5 2017, 09:02 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 5 2017, 09:45 PM) *
This is something that greatly disturbs me. Training and managing Military and Police in weapons is critical and difficult. In my view, claims of misuse should always be an internal issue. It is actually very very difficult to train someone to use a firearm with the possibility that they will be expected to take life. If it were not, then quite the wrong type of person is being deployed. Therefore, I find it utterly repugnant that we have let our legal system issue process against individuals on their own. Solicitors are supposed to be officers of the Supreme Court and not the personal hire of private individuals. We've seen one famous name collapse, it would be bad law if another rose in its place. And yes, I've been in correspondence with our MP about this; the result being quite positive.

Its well worth reading the Human Rights Act carefully and making sure your MP is well aware if you feel the legal profession are abusing their position by pursuing scurrilous claims.

Absolutely. 🙈🙉🙊

Posted by: On the edge Jun 5 2017, 09:05 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 5 2017, 08:48 PM) *
We'll see how it pans out. Personally I think we face the biggest threat to the West since WW2. You are either a Churchillian or a Chamberlain. Me.. I'm with Churchill.


Interesting one that! You ought to have chosen a better comparison, official papers from the time show that Chamberlain knew he'd made a big mistake at Heston in 1938. Not really surprising for a man knocking 70, who was tired after his first ever flights and a difficult meeting with Hitler. Fortunately, he recognised that and escalated putting the nation on a war footing ready for the inevitable. Just a decade or so after the worst war imaginable, the mood of the country was against and we were just crawling out of deep economic depression. War was inevitable and we all know how Churchill took over. What's often forgotten is that Chamberlain at Churchill's request stayed in the Cabinet and was one of Churchill's best supporters. At the time, the Conservatives were at best ambivalent about Churchill. He was very ill at the time and died at Heckfield quite close to here. Chamberlain had actually been a very good peacetime minister and its highly unlikely that the NHS would have been born without the reforms in health care he made in the 1930's. Sure, he had an unfortunate personal manner, but perhaps sometimes that's necessary.

It does you no credit to paint Neville Chamberlain in the way you have; he was a truly honourable and brave man. If you really do understand the history of the period, he wouldn't be far off who we need today.

Posted by: Turin Machine Jun 5 2017, 09:06 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 5 2017, 07:53 PM) *
Wasting your time. These people aren't interested in truth.

You know when they've lost the argument when they start calling people who disagree "you people". 💩

Posted by: x2lls Jun 5 2017, 09:10 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 5 2017, 09:45 PM) *
This is something that greatly disturbs me. Training and managing Military and Police in weapons is critical and difficult. In my view, claims of misuse should always be an internal issue. It is actually very very difficult to train someone to use a firearm with the possibility that they will be expected to take life. If it were not, then quite the wrong type of person is being deployed. Therefore, I find it utterly repugnant that we have let our legal system issue process against individuals on their own. Solicitors are supposed to be officers of the Supreme Court and not the personal hire of private individuals. We've seen one famous name collapse, it would be bad law if another rose in its place. And yes, I've been in correspondence with our MP about this; the result being quite positive.

Its well worth reading the Human Rights Act carefully and making sure your MP is well aware if you feel the legal profession are abusing their position by pursuing scurrilous claims.


Can you elaborate? What did you ask , and what was the response? It should not be a secret.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 5 2017, 09:11 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 5 2017, 10:05 PM) *
Interesting one that! You ought to have chosen a better comparison, official papers from the time show that Chamberlain knew he'd made a big mistake at Heston in 1938. Not really surprising for a man knocking 70, who was tired after his first ever flights and a difficult meeting with Hitler. Fortunately, he recognised that and escalated putting the nation on a war footing ready for the inevitable. Just a decade or so after the worst war imaginable, the mood of the country was against and we were just crawling out of deep economic depression. War was inevitable and we all know how Churchill took over. What's often forgotten is that Chamberlain at Churchill's request stayed in the Cabinet and was one of Churchill's best supporters. At the time, the Conservatives were at best ambivalent about Churchill. He was very ill at the time and died at Heckfield quite close to here. Chamberlain had actually been a very good peacetime minister and its highly unlikely that the NHS would have been born without the reforms in health care he made in the 1930's. Sure, he had an unfortunate personal manner, but perhaps sometimes that's necessary.

It does you no credit to paint Neville Chamberlain in the way you have; he was a truly honourable and brave man. If you really do understand the history of the period, he wouldn't be far off who we need today.


It was a generalisation and one that is a common view held mistakenly by many because of one poorly judged meeting with Hitler and his speech thereafter. I was aware of Chamberlains good work.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 5 2017, 09:30 PM

Diane Abbott... Sky News interview....😂😂😂

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jun 5 2017, 09:39 PM

QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Jun 5 2017, 07:12 PM) *
In the wake of the terror attack in Parish Laura Kuenssberg of the BBC asked Corbyn

to which Corbyn responded

So a measured proportionate response that would include deadly force if necessary, but an emphasis on working to prevent the problem ever occuring rather than a "shoot the lot of them and let god sort them out" answer that the reactionary right are agiating for.

The "shoot-to-kill" answer was a response to a different question, though Kuenssberg cut her interview together to imply otherwise. This was the question:


to which Corbyn responded as reported:


and Corbyn has further clarified his position:


So the use of deadly force when it's imperative, including shoot-to-kill, but only if it's imperitive and not in general.

Except, what Corbyn says when he's in campaign mode is not what Momentum will want if he's elected. Think of Jeremy as a glove puppet with momentum's​ hand firmly up his harris.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 5 2017, 10:15 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 4 2017, 07:34 PM) *
I'd start with anyone practicing shariah. Thats normally a good indicator. Oh and those holding up placards with things like "death to the infidels" and "make London Londonistan" Also anyone returning from a "holiday" to places like Somalia, Libya, or an extended trip to Turkey. Oh and yes profiling works.

Then Id insist on CCTV and sound in all the mosques.

It may impinge on freedoms but its a small price to pay.


And so it turns out that indeed this lovely terrorist was holding up black flags, appearing on C4 jihadi documentaries and holding up lovely death to the infidels placards. Booger me. Turned out he was a terrorist!!! Not toooo difficult Mr Newres.... How do we spot them? Eh????

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jun 5 2017, 11:13 PM

HIS OTHER TERRORIST CHUMS
In 1984, Corbyn lobbied a variety of 'Latin American cultural organisations' on behalf what he called 'comrades in the M-19 movement' in Colombia. These 'comrades', according to the Sunday Times, had car-bombed, shot, tortured and killed their way across the country in recent years.
The men accused of the Lockerbie bombing, in which 270 died, were also helped by Corbyn. In 1992, he signed a letter supporting their bid to avoid trial in either the UK or America. 'One has to ask whether they would receive a fair trial in a British or US court,' he said.
After 9/11, Corbyn wrote in the Socialist Campaign Group News, a paper for Left-wing MPs, blaming the tragedy on the West and its 'blanket support for Israel's occupation of Palestine'.
Similarly, he said America was ultimately to blame after Islamists killed 200 in Bali. 'The bomb was tragic, but it follows a history of great atrocity in Indonesia,' he wrote in 2002. 'The CIA inspired a coup in Indonesia in 1968. Hundreds of thousands of communists, socialists, trade unionists and others were executed in their homes overnight by agents of the CIA.' In fact, there was no coup in Indonesia in 1968.
In a 2009 speech, Corbyn said: 'It will be my pleasure and honour to host an event in Parliament where our friends from Hezbollah will be speaking… I've also invited our friends from Hamas to come and speak.'
Finsbury Park Mosque, where Islamist rabble-rouser Abu Hamza once preached, counts local MP Corbyn as a longstanding supporter. In 2014, he joined a group there to welcome Abdallah Djaballah — a controversial imam who has called on fellow countrymen to 'wage holy Muslim war' against Britain and the U.S.

Still think he's the right man to fight terrorism?

Posted by: x2lls Jun 5 2017, 11:54 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 5 2017, 11:15 PM) *
And so it turns out that indeed this lovely terrorist was holding up black flags, appearing on C4 jihadi documentaries and holding up lovely death to the infidels placards. Booger me. Turned out he was a terrorist!!! Not toooo difficult Mr Newres.... How do we spot them? Eh????


I would add, from what I read in other comments on this thread, there is an accusation of identifying terrorists by the way they look. Our security agencies are looking at digital/online activity, which will show a good more than the silly notion of what you look like. Why has the online trail not been mentioned?

Posted by: x2lls Jun 6 2017, 12:03 AM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 5 2017, 11:15 PM) *
And so it turns out that indeed this lovely terrorist was holding up black flags, appearing on C4 jihadi documentaries and holding up lovely death to the infidels placards. Booger me. Turned out he was a terrorist!!! Not toooo difficult Mr Newres.... How do we spot them? Eh????



He is not the only one, this little scumbag has appeared many times online with moronic views. (Just to bounce a clever assed reply, I mean the bearded one!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APCW7l3wFMM

Mr Robinson gets my full support and I am proud to say I have donated towards his legal fight against the establishment who want to shut him down. They are failing.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jun 6 2017, 12:42 AM

👍

Posted by: newres Jun 6 2017, 05:30 AM

QUOTE (x2lls @ Jun 6 2017, 01:03 AM) *
He is not the only one, this little scumbag has appeared many times online with moronic views. (Just to bounce a clever assed reply, I mean the bearded one!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APCW7l3wFMM

Mr Robinson gets my full support and I am proud to say I have donated towards his legal fight against the establishment who want to shut him down. They are failing.

Well it's only a small step from UKIP to the EDL.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jun 6 2017, 06:05 AM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 6 2017, 06:30 AM) *
Well it's only a small step from UKIP to the EDL.

Get my Lecky from them. 🙆

Posted by: Simon Kirby Jun 6 2017, 06:37 AM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jun 5 2017, 10:39 PM) *
Except, what Corbyn says when he's in campaign mode is not what Momentum will want if he's elected. Think of Jeremy as a glove puppet with momentum's​ hand firmly up his harris.

I knock one smear down and you stand another one up.

Posted by: newres Jun 6 2017, 07:03 AM

QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Jun 6 2017, 07:37 AM) *
I knock one smear down and you stand another one up.

Told you.

http://bigthink.com/think-tank/the-backfire-effect-why-facts-dont-win-arguments

You're better off just mocking them.

Posted by: Simon Kirby Jun 6 2017, 07:08 AM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 5 2017, 11:15 PM) *
And so it turns out that indeed this lovely terrorist was holding up black flags, appearing on C4 jihadi documentaries and holding up lovely death to the infidels placards. Booger me. Turned out he was a terrorist!!! Not toooo difficult Mr Newres.... How do we spot them? Eh????

Spotting terrorists is still not as easy as you suggest. While it may be true that fanatics and sociopaths will likely have voiced their violent ideation publicly it doesn't follow that everyone voicing violence will necessarily act on it. That chap for example who murdered Jo Cox in the street might have been neutralised if he'd been rounded up with everyone else who'd ever shared a post on Facebook from Britain First or held a banner at an EDL rally, but would that have been reasonable and proportionate? I'm not saying we should ignore expressions of violence and hatred, we shouldn't, but challenging the ignorance, fear, and prejudice, and then resolving any underlying injustice is more effective at bringing peace.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 6 2017, 07:22 AM

QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Jun 6 2017, 08:08 AM) *
Spotting terrorists is still not as easy as you suggest. While it may be true that fanatics and sociopaths will likely have voiced their violent ideation publicly it doesn't follow that everyone voicing violence will necessarily act on it. That chap for example who murdered Jo Cox in the street might have been neutralised if he'd been rounded up with everyone else who'd ever shared a post on Facebook from Britain First or held a banner at an EDL rally, but would that have been reasonable and proportionate? I'm not saying we should ignore expressions of violence and hatred, we shouldn't, but challenging the ignorance, fear, and prejudice, and then resolving any underlying injustice is more effective at bringing peace.


What would you do with the other lovely flag wavers in that C4 documentary? Tea and biscuits and ask them to be nice?

Posted by: Simon Kirby Jun 6 2017, 07:59 AM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 6 2017, 08:22 AM) *
What would you do with the other lovely flag wavers in that C4 documentary? Tea and biscuits and ask them to be nice?

I'd start by electing a Labour government to reverse the Tory cuts that saw Theresa May reduce the police force by 20,000 bobbies on the beat, and if you'd rather not be taxed to pay for that then I'm more than happy not to renew Trident and we can use some of that £200Billion to promote social justice.

I'd also stop selling arms to foreign despots and return the army to barracks, and that I'd start developing renewable energy in ernest so that we didn't need to depend on foreign tyrants for our power and light. I'd also give some thought to improving British agriculture so that we weren't also totally dependent on imports to feed the population, because that really is asking for trouble - actually, if more people had allotments and spent less time being unpleasant to each other the world might be a better place.

Posted by: On the edge Jun 6 2017, 08:43 AM

QUOTE (x2lls @ Jun 6 2017, 12:54 AM) *
I would add, from what I read in other comments on this thread, there is an accusation of identifying terrorists by the way they look. Our security agencies are looking at digital/online activity, which will show a good more than the silly notion of what you look like. Why has the online trail not been mentioned?


Mainly because it's the wetware physically delivering the damage. Of course looking online is included, indeed, it would be naive to think that isn't already happening and probably far more than we might imagine. What proof? look at the phone tapping evidence and look at just how many potential threats have been stopped. Of course, we aren't going to be told everything for obvious reasons.

However, as even the big firms are trying to tell the MPs, apart from the bl33ding obvious, what are they supposed to be barring and taking down.

I'm pretty convinced in Google's survelance process sees a website called 'Non Violent Friends of ISIS' with a chat room where someone is asking about home made effects to celebrate 11.11. it wouldn't last long and that someone can expect a visit.

That apart, as you are clearly in IT I'm surprised you haven't come up with a clear workable solution.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jun 6 2017, 08:49 AM

QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Jun 6 2017, 07:37 AM) *
I knock one smear down and you stand another one up.

Not a smear though, is it. Maybe it's just satire, your fond of that. And feeding unicorns with fairy mushrooms.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jun 6 2017, 08:50 AM

QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Jun 6 2017, 08:59 AM) *
I'd start by electing a Labour government to reverse the Tory cuts that saw Theresa May reduce the police force by 20,000 bobbies on the beat, and if you'd rather not be taxed to pay for that then I'm more than happy not to renew Trident and we can use some of that £200Billion to promote social justice.

I'd also stop selling arms to foreign despots and return the army to barracks, and that I'd start developing renewable energy in ernest so that we didn't need to depend on foreign tyrants for our power and light. I'd also give some thought to improving British agriculture so that we weren't also totally dependent on imports to feed the population, because that really is asking for trouble - actually, if more people had allotments and spent less time being unpleasant to each other the world might be a better place.

Straight from the momentum little book of lies, comes complete with pop-up slogans for the weak minded.

Posted by: On the edge Jun 6 2017, 09:01 AM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jun 6 2017, 09:50 AM) *
Straight from the momentum little book of lies, comes complete with pop-up slogans for the weak minded.


I bet your laundry bill is getting big Je Suis as you see each days poll prediction! Never has Mayday, Mayday as a distress call been more appropriate.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jun 6 2017, 09:06 AM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 6 2017, 10:01 AM) *
I bet your laundry bill is getting big Je Suis as you see each days poll prediction! Never has Mayday, Mayday as a distress call been more appropriate.

I ain't worried, even if enough fools get schilled by this little snake oil salesman I'll still be alright jack. Come out of investment that's requires the stock exchange and bury the cash. Oh, and still looking at bulk buying body bags to sell on, get em cheap while they're still available.

Posted by: Turin Machine Jun 6 2017, 09:13 AM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 6 2017, 09:43 AM) *
Mainly because it's the wetware physically delivering the damage. Of course looking online is included, indeed, it would be naive to think that isn't already happening and probably far more than we might imagine. What proof? look at the phone tapping evidence and look at just how many potential threats have been stopped. Of course, we aren't going to be told everything for obvious reasons.

However, as even the big firms are trying to tell the MPs, apart from the bl33ding obvious, what are they supposed to be barring and taking down.

I'm pretty convinced in Google's survelance process sees a website called 'Non Violent Friends of ISIS' with a chat room where someone is asking about home made effects to celebrate 11.11. it wouldn't last long and that someone can expect a visit.

That apart, as you are clearly in IT I'm surprised you haven't come up with a clear workable solution.

👍. My concerns would center mainly around sites like WhatsApp, where you can send as much information as you like and it's encrypted. That can't be good for security. Then we have the problems of VPM's and I don't see an answer for that.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jun 6 2017, 09:20 AM

"Diane Abbott pulls out of Woman's Hour debate due to illness"

Does anybody actually believe anything these people say anymore?
I know she's got a big mouth but her foots been in it so much lately the 'leadership' 😂 are running scared.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 6 2017, 09:48 AM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jun 6 2017, 10:20 AM) *
"Diane Abbott pulls out of Woman's Hour debate due to illness"

Does anybody actually believe anything these people say anymore?
I know she's got a big mouth but her foots been in it so much lately the 'leadership' 😂 are running scared.


Incompetent. Corbyn should get rid now. Otherwise it could possibly cost him a million votes.

Posted by: On the edge Jun 6 2017, 09:55 AM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jun 6 2017, 10:06 AM) *
I ain't worried, even if enough fools get schilled by this little snake oil salesman I'll still be alright jack. Come out of investment that's requires the stock exchange and bury the cash. Oh, and still looking at bulk buying body bags to sell on, get em cheap while they're still available.


Well there you go then! Body bags being a good investment; indeed I've heard that suggested by both sides in this debate so you are onto a winner there. Liquidate and go cash, ok, but precious metal better of course (but you know that) and perhaps Phil Green has a spare berth on his boat. Good sailing; keep happy!

Posted by: On the edge Jun 6 2017, 09:56 AM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jun 6 2017, 10:20 AM) *
"Diane Abbott pulls out of Woman's Hour debate due to illness"

Does anybody actually believe anything these people say anymore?
I know she's got a big mouth but her foots been in it so much lately the 'leadership' 😂 are running scared.


No; as Mother Theresa keeps on demonstrating!

Posted by: On the edge Jun 6 2017, 09:59 AM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 6 2017, 10:48 AM) *
Incompetent. Corbyn should get rid now. Otherwise it could possibly cost him a million votes.


TDH that post doesn't make sense! Why on earth would you want to stop Mt Corbyn losing votes? I'm beginning to suspect your red flag is safely stowed under your bed waiting for election day plus one and if the climate is right out it comes.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jun 6 2017, 10:11 AM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 6 2017, 10:59 AM) *
TDH that post doesn't make sense! Why on earth would you want to stop Mt Corbyn losing votes? I'm beginning to suspect your red flag is safely stowed under your bed waiting for election day plus one and if the climate is right out it comes.

Yup, agree, put her in the media eye as much as, let's all see how competent she will be as home secretary. How many police is it Diane? Five? That's what those two remind me of! Anyone remember Benny? "Ello mizz Diane". "Ello Benny, can I borrows yer calci thing? I needs t count me fingers like". Oh Diane, pure comedy gold! You know I'm right.

Posted by: Simon Kirby Jun 6 2017, 10:24 AM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jun 6 2017, 09:49 AM) *
Not a smear though, is it. Maybe it's just satire, your fond of that. And feeding unicorns with fairy mushrooms.

OK, but that's not debate, you're just being fascile. Do you not want to talk about this politely?

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jun 6 2017, 10:33 AM

QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Jun 6 2017, 11:24 AM) *
OK, but that's not debate, you're just being fascile. Do you not want to talk about this politely?

You don't want debate, you just want us all to love Saint Jeremy, "Dear Jeremy, I voted for you, the nasty people at NTC took my allotment away, as I think your allotments great will you please tell them to give it back."

Posted by: On the edge Jun 6 2017, 11:38 AM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jun 6 2017, 11:33 AM) *
You don't want debate, you just want us all to love Saint Jeremy, "Dear Jeremy, I voted for you, the nasty people at NTC took my allotment away, as I think your allotments great will you please tell them to give it back."


TBH it's actually coming across as you not wanting to debate. As you've already said, you'll be ok, so what is it you are so scared of?

If it's security, using business logic, Mrs May isn't going to help. Drastically reducing Police effectiveness is hardly an endorsement for success. Then there is the Ozzie Osbo legacy to look forward to; yeah, he's created loads of jobs, but by his own admission, something wrong with the pay! At least if we have a Labour Government we'll be able to afford your body bags.

Posted by: Turin Machine Jun 6 2017, 03:54 PM

Sadly, despite having Paris on high alert with more armed police than you can shake a cheese baguette at;

"BREAKING NEWS: Terror in Paris as hammer-wielding man is shot by police after attacking an officer as streets are cleared and tourists are locked in Notre Dame Cathedral for their safety"

As in London, he was bought down but, no one was able to prevent it happening. cool.gif

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jun 6 2017, 05:26 PM

And Labour play the race card! (well, it is Labour)

"Labour supporters today dismissed criticism of Diane Abbott over her shambolic media performances as down to 'racist and sexist abuse'.

Singer Lily Allen hit out after the shadow home secretary was ridiculed for another car crash interview.

Ms Abbott was left floundering on Sky News when she was asked to discuss the Harris Report, released last October, which made several recommendations on beefing up security in the capital.

But after being questioned by Dermot Murnaghan on specific aspects of the report a desperate Ms Abbott was unable to come up with answers and even had to be corrected by the interviewer."

Heres a tip LILY, Its not because its racist, and its not because its sexist, ITS because she can't hack it!! Supposed to be shadow Home Secretary for Gods sake. Get a spine.

Posted by: Simon Kirby Jun 6 2017, 05:36 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jun 6 2017, 06:26 PM) *
And Labour play the race card! (well, it is Labour)

"Labour supporters today dismissed criticism of Diane Abbott over her shambolic media performances as down to 'racist and sexist abuse'.

Singer Lily Allen hit out after the shadow home secretary was ridiculed for another car crash interview.

Ms Abbott was left floundering on Sky News when she was asked to discuss the Harris Report, released last October, which made several recommendations on beefing up security in the capital.

But after being questioned by Dermot Murnaghan on specific aspects of the report a desperate Ms Abbott was unable to come up with answers and even had to be corrected by the interviewer."

Heres a tip LILY, Its not because its racist, and its not because its sexist, ITS because she can't hack it!! Supposed to be shadow Home Secretary for Gods sake. Get a spine.

*coughs* http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4576434/Jibes-Abbott-racist-sexist-says-Lily-Allen.html

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jun 6 2017, 05:38 PM

QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Jun 6 2017, 06:36 PM) *
*coughs* http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4576434/Jibes-Abbott-racist-sexist-says-Lily-Allen.html

And? The tweets are real, the stories real. But hey its the mail so it must have been made up by pixies.

Posted by: Turin Machine Jun 6 2017, 06:03 PM

QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Jun 6 2017, 06:36 PM) *
*coughs* http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4576434/Jibes-Abbott-racist-sexist-says-Lily-Allen.html

Problems? Or a bit of left wing elitist snobbery?

Posted by: newres Jun 6 2017, 06:19 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Jun 6 2017, 07:03 PM) *
Problems? Or a bit of left wing elitist snobbery?

Plagiarism. wink.gif

"the practice of taking someone else's work or ideas and passing them off as one's own"

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 6 2017, 06:30 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jun 6 2017, 06:26 PM) *
And Labour play the race card! (well, it is Labour)

"Labour supporters today dismissed criticism of Diane Abbott over her shambolic media performances as down to 'racist and sexist abuse'.

Singer Lily Allen hit out after the shadow home secretary was ridiculed for another car crash interview.

Ms Abbott was left floundering on Sky News when she was asked to discuss the Harris Report, released last October, which made several recommendations on beefing up security in the capital.

But after being questioned by Dermot Murnaghan on specific aspects of the report a desperate Ms Abbott was unable to come up with answers and even had to be corrected by the interviewer."

Heres a tip LILY, Its not because its racist, and its not because its sexist, ITS because she can't hack it!! Supposed to be shadow Home Secretary for Gods sake. Get a spine.



Lillies as mad as a box of frogs. Years of drugs and drink have addled her brain. If you read her twitter time line she pretty much thinks all white men are rapists... And she fawns over Abbott and Corbyn like a schoolgirl with a crush on a pop star. Her and tax evading Lineker are champagne socialists. Not living in the real world.

Posted by: On the edge Jun 6 2017, 06:35 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 6 2017, 07:19 PM) *
Plagiarism. wink.gif

"the practice of taking someone else's work or ideas and passing them off as one's own"


Aaah Newres, we hadn't spotted the tiny speech marks before and after the text in question. Apparently that makes it legit, a bit like saying you never took drugs because you didn't inhale. Original thought from Je Suis? Never; there's a better chance of getting a coherent answer from Ms Abbott. tongue.gif

Posted by: Turin Machine Jun 6 2017, 06:44 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 6 2017, 07:19 PM) *
Plagiarism. wink.gif

"the practice of taking someone else's work or ideas and passing them off as one's own"

Which is why he put the post in quotes, yes? To signify it was from somewhere else? Yes? Understand?

Posted by: On the edge Jun 6 2017, 07:08 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Jun 6 2017, 07:44 PM) *
Which is why he put the post in quotes, yes? To signify it was from somewhere else? Yes? Understand?


We've done that one TM, do keep up at the back! smile.gif

Posted by: Turin Machine Jun 6 2017, 07:19 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 6 2017, 08:08 PM) *
We've done that one TM, do keep up at the back! smile.gif

Will do Captain my Captain.

Posted by: Simon Kirby Jun 6 2017, 07:56 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Jun 6 2017, 08:19 PM) *
Will do Captain my Captain.

You passing Walt Whitman's work off as your own now? wink.gif

Posted by: Turin Machine Jun 6 2017, 08:13 PM

QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Jun 6 2017, 08:56 PM) *
You passing Walt Whitman's work off as your own now? wink.gif

Merely paying homage.

Posted by: newres Jun 6 2017, 08:18 PM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 6 2017, 07:35 PM) *
Aaah Newres, we hadn't spotted the tiny speech marks before and after the text in question. Apparently that makes it legit, a bit like saying you never took drugs because you didn't inhale. Original thought from Je Suis? Never; there's a better chance of getting a coherent answer from Ms Abbott. tongue.gif

Pretty sure they weren't there earlier.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 6 2017, 08:26 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 6 2017, 09:18 PM) *
Pretty sure they weren't there earlier.

rolleyes.gif

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jun 6 2017, 08:27 PM

Yup, they were. Kinda shows you don't even read the posts before jumping on with both feet.

Posted by: newres Jun 6 2017, 08:33 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jun 6 2017, 09:27 PM) *
Yup, they were. Kinda shows you don't even read the posts before jumping on with both feet.

I did actually double check before I posted, but perhaps I need new glasses.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jun 6 2017, 08:40 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 6 2017, 09:33 PM) *
I did actually double check before I posted, but perhaps I need new glasses.


Yep. Difficult to see things clearly through red filters.

Posted by: newres Jun 6 2017, 08:44 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 6 2017, 09:40 PM) *
Yep. Difficult to see things clearly through red filters.

I don't think Simon saw them either else he wouldn't have made his post. wink.gif

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jun 6 2017, 08:47 PM

Kinda adds substance to TDH's post then. 🖕

Posted by: On the edge Jun 7 2017, 08:21 AM

For decades we suffered, often grievously, at the hands of the IRA. Our response, was hard; civilian rights curtailed and invoking heavy military and police action. Still the carnage went on. Alongside, some tried to parly, Ken Livingstone was roundly castigated for that. The only solution seemed ever harder physical force. Then, the break came, we did talk and talk and a peace, which still just about holds was established. Yes, it meant talking to odious people and doing things we didn't like; such is the nature of negotiation. Yet still the critics, fanned by the red topped press, try to keep the battle alive. Carping on about past wrongs and hurts, not letting go.

Why is it so wrong to seek peace, what at do these people really want?

Posted by: blackdog Jun 7 2017, 08:42 AM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 4 2017, 05:20 PM) *
Remind me, did we have Muslim terrorists in the west before the Gulf wars?

Of course we did - the Gulf wars were just a recent a escalation by the West - like most previous attempts to stamp out terrorism by sending in the army the main result has been to increase terrorism.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jun 7 2017, 09:12 AM

It would be a nice idea wouldn't it, an end to war, the end of global hunger, however, so many people have taken the view that if we change our ways, become somehow subservient to Daesh that they will stop attacking Britain. Let's, for a moment review the aims of Daesh and what it is they want.

Daesh makes no secret of its ultimate ambition: A global caliphate secured through a global war. To that end it speaks of "remaining and expanding" its existing hold over much of Iraq and Syria. It aims to replace existing, man-made borders with its own, to overcome what it sees as Shiite territory that has emerged across the Middle East, to take its war, Islam's holy war, (jihad) to Europe and America (the west or 'the great Satan) and ultimately to lead Muslims toward an apocalyptic battle against the "disbelievers." (That's us by the way)

Daesh frequently uses its own online magazine called Dabiq to set out its vision of the future. The name of this so called 'magazine' is chosen carefully, Dabiq is a town in northern Syria currently held by Daesh where, according to Islamic prophecy, the armies of Rome will mass to meet the armies of Islam and presumably be wiped out (no-one likes a loser) Prophecy is critical to Daesh which accepts the word of the Prophet and the hadith, or sayings, attributed to him literally absolutely and without question. Prophecy provides Daesh with the glue of certainty. And according to those prophecies, the Islamic armies will ultimately conquer Jerusalem and Rome.

The revival of the so called caliphate is the launching pad for a global battlefield. No caliph can govern without pursuing offensive jihad, and that jihad will continue, as they say, until "the shade of the blessed flag will expand until it covers all eastern and western extents of the earth.

After all this, and by the way they promise that anyone calling it Daesh will die after having their tongue torn from their living body, so boy! Am I in trouble! After this is it reasonable, likely or even believable that they are going to say "those evil western dogs in England sat they're sorry, let's all go back home"? Personally, I don't think so.

And yes, some of this post I had to research from online sources, and no, not from the Phail.

Posted by: On the edge Jun 7 2017, 09:48 AM

Yes, Je Suise as Teddy Rooseevelt once said, talk softly but carry a big stick. Does seem to work. Nevertheless, thanks to Mrs May and her chums, our navy and army have been so stripped of resource that they are almost ineffective and of course, under get patronage, our Police service similarly. Ironically, the only thing we have left is talk.

Do you really think someone who cares more about Party policy than national defence is really the right person to lead us in this fight?

Posted by: newres Jun 7 2017, 10:08 AM

QUOTE (blackdog @ Jun 7 2017, 09:42 AM) *
Of course we did - the Gulf wars were just a recent a escalation by the West - like most previous attempts to stamp out terrorism by sending in the army the main result has been to increase terrorism.

Did we? Other than plo attacks where Israel was the target? I cant think of any before Gulf War 1. I'm sure you're right though.

Posted by: Turin Machine Jun 7 2017, 10:10 AM

QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 7 2017, 10:48 AM) *
Yes, Je Suise as Teddy Rooseevelt once said, talk softly but carry a big stick. Does seem to work. Nevertheless, thanks to Mrs May and her chums, our navy and army have been so stripped of resource that they are almost ineffective and of course, under get patronage, our Police service similarly. Ironically, the only thing we have left is talk.

Do you really think someone who cares more about Party policy than national defence is really the right person to lead us in this fight?

Interestingly you use the phrase 'big stick' as well as 'national defense' and of course 'fight' all language rather incompatible with the ideals and election cant expounded by Jeremy. Will Labour divert funds from 'social justice' to bolster the armed forces? I think not. It has always been policy to reduce standing armed forces until such a time as is too late, 'Good Queen Bess' she of the Great Armada victory allowed the navy to pay off its ships crews to rot 'on the beach' even while it was still chasing the Spanish fleet around the coast of Scotland. There is no magic money tree as TM pointed out.

Posted by: On the edge Jun 7 2017, 10:31 AM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Jun 7 2017, 11:10 AM) *
Interestingly you use the phrase 'big stick' as well as 'national defense' and of course 'fight' all language rather incompatible with the ideals and election cant expounded by Jeremy. Will Labour divert funds from 'social justice' to bolster the armed forces? I think not. It has always been policy to reduce standing armed forces until such a time as is too late, 'Good Queen Bess' she of the Great Armada victory allowed the navy to pay off its ships crews to rot 'on the beach' even while it was still chasing the Spanish fleet around the coast of Scotland. There is no magic money tree as TM pointed out.


You are probably right but in Mrs May's case, it's demonstrably just verbiage; all mouth and no substance. Like it or not, the Tory record shows that's just their style. So if you vote Tory, it still won't reverse these spending policies.

At least with Jeremy Corbyn, you get what you see and there is every likelihood his party will change his mind. Again, listening and correcting policy is not a natural Tory trait.

As for the cash, we do have a massive spend on trying to maintain our interest in the unsustainable, illogical and now broadly unnecessary nuclear 'defence' arrangements. Even a small part of that could easily be diverted. Again, unthinkable to a Tory administration.

Posted by: newres Jun 7 2017, 05:54 PM

QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Jun 7 2017, 11:10 AM) *
Interestingly you use the phrase 'big stick' as well as 'national defense' and of course 'fight' all language rather incompatible with the ideals and election cant expounded by Jeremy. Will Labour divert funds from 'social justice' to bolster the armed forces? I think not. It has always been policy to reduce standing armed forces until such a time as is too late, 'Good Queen Bess' she of the Great Armada victory allowed the navy to pay off its ships crews to rot 'on the beach' even while it was still chasing the Spanish fleet around the coast of Scotland. There is no magic money tree as TM pointed out.

Do we need to divert funds from welfare to the armed forces? Do we in today's world need to be spending masses on weapons and armies? I don't think so. We obviously need to spend some, but I'm happy to be a moderately strong nation militarily - able to defend itself from attack. That incidentally wouldn't include nuclear weapons.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jun 8 2017, 02:20 PM

Oh Charlie, you little scamp's 👏

"Satirical cartoon magazine Charlie Hebdo is fanning the flames of controversy once more with a graphic depiction of a headless Theresa May on its latest front cover, as it turns its unique brand of caricature to a spate of UK terror attacks.

Quoting the British Prime Minister’s "enough is enough speech" in the wake of the latest atrocity in London, the French language title appears to take a pop at the ideals of multiculturalism with May’s disembodied head saying: 'Too much is too much'.

Inside Charlie Hebdo continues the theme with drawings of people fleeing a terror attack in London captioned: 'Slimming tips from ISIS – run fast', while another page references the title's infamous decision to print images of the Prophet Mohammed, which was followed by a terror attack on its own offices, with a bowler capped Briton saying: 'At least one never caricatured the prophet.'

Run fast! 😂

I spect the women's institute will be round there shortly to shoot the place up!

Posted by: newres Jun 8 2017, 03:59 PM

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/saudi-arabian-players-fail-to-observe-a-minutes-silence-in-memory-of-london-terror-victims-35803139.html

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jun 8 2017, 04:37 PM

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 8 2017, 04:59 PM) *
http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/saudi-arabian-players-fail-to-observe-a-minutes-silence-in-memory-of-london-terror-victims-35803139.html

Footballers huh 😤

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