No, don't give up for goodness sake, do we have to take notice of all these so called experts. Would you really expect to be waiting to see a doctor or on the waiting list for an opp. etc. alongside any of them, when was the last time Richard Branson lived in this country for instance. And as for the so called celeb's, Izzard, 'give us your effin money' Geldolf, & now I see an ex footballer who lives in a £32 million pad !!!!!!! Get real, none of them live in the real world anymore, every time I see names like these telling me what to do it makes me dig my heels in even more.

QED

'So called experts' - would you take advice about your health from a doctor or someone you don't know on facebook?

90% of economists predict a significant economic slump if we leave the EU. They have far more credibility than any of the politicians leading the Leave campaign - or the Remain campaign.

If you are voting Brexit because of immigration; Brexit will not cure the problem. 'Swivel Eyed' Brexits cannot answer the fact half of the net immigration is from people outside the EU. It stands to reason that 'taking control of our borders' is not easily achievable in or out.

If you are voting because popstars and other celebs or a poster are telling you to do otherwise, then that's illogical too. Baroness Varsi defects from Leave to Remain over a soft racist poster. How absurd. It therefore means she never had good reason to vote leave, or perhaps, she has good reason to change here 'allegiance' for a career move.

Also for all the talk of an Aussie style point system - we had one - it was called the Highly skilled migrant visa and existed up until Dec2010, it was removed when the recession and the "shortage skills list" was trimmed. It was a farce, you needed I think it was 80 points and you got them for being under certain age, having done an English taught degree and on a sliding scale based on earnings over previous 2 years. Cue loads of iffy collages giving courses taught in English that you could do on a student visa whilst earning cash to get you earnings up so you made the magic 80 points. In the meantime the multinationals just shipped people in on transfer visas and basically treated them as indentured servants (they couldnt change job as tied to 1 employer and are put in in company hostels, many have their wages paid into accounts in home country and have only pocket money over here), this is non EU migrants so nothing to do with European freedom of movement rules - how will Brexit change any of that ?

ps here is a link to a calculator for the old tier1 HSMP visa http://www.hsmpexperts.co.uk/hsmp-points-calculator/ note an MBA from the correct uni gets you 75 of the 80 needed immediately

Yes, I also read that Australia have a higher rate of immigration per capita than we do. Increased border controls = higher taxes and more expensive international transactions.

The best 'expert' I've seen is a professor of European Law at Liverpool Liverpool university claiming that fir the past 30 odd years he's made an academic study of the facts as part of his job and so can claim, with great credibility, that the EU is the best thing since sliced bread. Apparently instead of us moaning about it, we should have been lauding its success. What he says must also be true because its exactly what he's been teaching. Umm, no vested interest there then! Shame his students never took any notice!

Yes - we must avid listening to anyone who knows what they are talking about!

And more land than you can shake a didgeridoo at.

Quite right.

But per capita figures are skewed by the vastly different populations numbers. Australia is also a vast land mass compared to GB.

What are the actual numbers of immigrants tho'?

My worry is that the so-called economic experts are the ones urging us to get into the Euro - all look how that turned out...

Yes, strangely in some ways I agree with what your irony hides BUT isn't it really odd that all these 'experts' have left it 'till now to extol the virtues of the EU? I'm being deadly serious now. After all, we've been hearing serious concerns from our politicians and indeed our business executives almost from day one, over thirty years ago. Its exactly the same as the 'of course there are big problems, we know that, but they can only be sorted if we remain inside' or the 'Britain's place is leading' lines that keep being spun out. Again, why haven't we when we've had 30 years to try?

David Cameron went into this debate on the basis of a negotiation which was supposed to have corrected a number of ills, certainly sufficient to win hearts and minds. Again, I suspect that many wouldn't even begin to remember what he actually got. The bigger, and frankly far more critical ills, are left untouched.

Yes, of course we have a right of veto; which we do use. Again, isn't it odd that one of the bigger complaints about Europe is its undemocratic nature. So, the way to solve our problems appear to be even more of an affront to democracy; simply don't do what the majority of our peers have agreed. Similarly, its beginning to dawn on those average working voters, that some of the vetos actually work for the bosses rather than them.

We've had no serious European champion in British politics since we joined. Sorry, that can't simply be blamed on a negative media. So then, coupled with our home grown professionally spun politics, means its hardly surprising the average voter is going to be very cynical indeed.

The European Union is a great idea but long experience shows it doesn't work.

At 30 June 2015, 28.2% of Australia's estimated resident population (ERP) (6.7 million people) was born overseas.

http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/mf/3412.0/


I maintain, a Brexit doesn't guarantee we will see a reduction in immigration, all parties support immigration and the population will soon start to get upset when they fail to receive their 200 quid washing machine delivered on a Sunday.

After a Brexit vote, it is quite conceivable that we will renegotiate a situation that is very similar to the very system we have in place.

Bear-in-mind, a Brexit would result in an unfettered continuance of these very same people, or at least Osborne anyway.

That is certainly a very big concern; worse because they'd be injured tigers, doing something they didn't want to do.

And, if there were a shake-up, it is likely to be the likes of Johnson and Gove who would rise to the top. Both have recently stated their belief in the benefits of immigration (Boris restating his support for an amnesty for long-standing illegals).

I dont remember much of a clamour to join the Euro.

If you join the euro you all have to have similar taxation and interst rate policies as otherwise there is too much internal tension. The Euro is sinking as the economies of Scandinavia and the Eastern Med are too fundamentally different. The Euro will ONLY work if all members of it basically share an economy (which is what Germany was hoping for - a single economy run by them)

BUT

We are talking about and EU exit not a Euro exit they are 2 different things and I think most european countries have accepted that a single currency for all of Europe is moving further away not closer especially with the possibility of expansions.

Needless to say I disagree. We have had champions of Europe, the most notable recent example being Ken Clarke, but politicians in general have fallen into two camps - a small but increasing, band of Eurosceptics and a silent majority who were unprepared to speak out for what was seen as an unpopular cause. Typical politicians!

When it came time to stand up and be counted the majority of experts and politicians have stood up for the EU.

If you listened to the chap from Liverpool Uni you would have heard his view (which makes sense to me) that the EU is principally (for the UK) a trading arrangement - the most comprehensive such arrrangement in the world. Furthermore that a comprehensive study of the arrangement carried out a couple of years back (the largest such study ever undertaken by the Civil Service) provided plenty of evidence that the arrangement was working well for the UK.

He was also very clear that it had no effect on sovereignty - it is no more undemocratic than the Civil Service.

Sure, the Eurozone is stuttering, but it is not the EU and we are not a part of it - and it may still turn out well.

My own view is that the UK economy was a basket case before we joined the EU, now it is one of the strongest in the Western world - seems to me that the EU has been very good for our economy.

That is a good point, but because something was good in the mid 70s, when the country was struggling with a post world war debt and unruly unions, doesn't mean that we would return to that state, although our 'new' debt is still too high thanks to poor governance inside and outside of the EU.