A request from the BNP Options

[Andy Capp]

" ... on Wednesday, can we have our flag back please!"

[Simon Kirby]

" ... On Wednesday, can we have out flag back please!"

It's no joke really. As a flag-flyer I've more than once felt obliged to justify my flag-flying as nothing to do with extreme right politics, and I'm not entirely happy that the right have co-opted my national flag for their politicals ends. For sure, extreme nationalism is politically rightist, but being proud to celebrate my national identity and heritage isn't. I think it's been great seeing such a display of pride and community, and I hope it might have inspired people to get a flag pole and fly the Union Flag or Cross of St. George permanently.

[Andy Capp]

Playing devil's advocate, the problem with flags is that they represent dominion and they have been used to unite people to commit incredible atrocities. The fact extremists use them is testament of their message. They say you are one of us , or you are not. They are divisive.

[On the edge]

Playing devil's advocate, the problem with flags is that they represent dominion and they have been used to unite people to commit incredible atrocities. The fact extremists use them is testament of their message. They say you are one of us , or you are not. They are divisive.

Think you have an important point here - which is actually reinforced b y Simon's post, The issue isn't the flag; its the symbolic representation. We, as a nation, don't take this too seriously, hence the issue with the BNP and some of the more unruly sports supporters. Try doing what they do in the States, where 'old glory' is treated with almost reverence. Some commercial firms go to extraordinary lengths to protect their trade identifiers - McDonalds, The Olympics, Apple, to name but a few. We should do the same with the flag BNP have absolutley no right or authority to claim its theirs by implication or otherwise.

[NORTHENDER]

I think "Old Glory" is the confederate flag.

[Andy Capp]

I think "Old Glory" is the confederate flag.

A web search would contradict that.

[NORTHENDER]

I stand corrected. I was going by the old southern song about still flying old glory at the courthouse. Note to self, Must try harder.

[NWNREADER]

I stand corrected. I was going by the old southern song about still flying old glory at the courthouse. Note to self, Must try harder.

Know your place!!!!

[Simon Kirby]

Playing devil's advocate, the problem with flags is that they represent dominion and they have been used to unite people to commit incredible atrocities. The fact extremists use them is testament of their message. They say you are one of us , or you are not. They are divisive.

Like OtE says, flags are most certainly a declaration, but hardly a domineering one in and of themselves, it all depends on what the flag connotes. The white flag for example declares truce or surrender, the skull and cross bones declares imminent plunder - two flags, but opposite ends of the spectrum. The question then is what do the Union Flag and Cross of St. George connote? The far-right have tried to claim these symbols for themsleves, and for some they do now indeed represent xenophobia, rascism, and intolerance, but the right have stolen the nation's colours and it's time to stop being embarrassed to be English and British, and reclaim our flags and proudly assert our national and cultural identity with them.

[On the edge]

Like OtE says, flags are most certainly a declaration, but hardly a domineering one in and of themselves, it all depends on what the flag connotes. The white flag for example declares truce or surrender, the skull and cross bones declares imminent plunder - two flags, but opposite ends of the spectrum. The question then is what do the Union Flag and Cross of St. George connote? The far-right have tried to claim these symbols for themsleves, and for some they do now indeed represent xenophobia, rascism, and intolerance, but the right have stolen the nation's colours and it's time to stop being embarrassed to be English and British, and reclaim our flags and proudly assert our national and cultural identity with them.

Wholly with you there. If we all did this it would elmininate the BNP abuse at a stroke, We ought to see the flag(s) on publoic b uildings rather more often. Just as at one time the Council met with the Royal Arms displayed on the wall behind the Chair. In both cases an added benefit is thqt these symbols are an antidote to self importance,

[Andy Capp]

Like OtE says, flags are most certainly a declaration, but hardly a domineering one in and of themselves, it all depends on what the flag connotes.

Well the Union Flag is a flag of dominion, that is a fact. The St George's Cross was a flag to identify constituents of allied forces sent by the pope to reclaim the holy land, with extreme prejudice.

The white flag for example declares truce or surrender, the skull and cross bones declares imminent plunder - two flags, but opposite ends of the spectrum.

Flags employed for use in activities of violence and plunder.

The question then is what do the Union Flag and Cross of St. George connote?

That is a contextual question and one that will be answered differently depending on one's disposition.

The far-right have tried to claim these symbols for themsleves, and for some they do now indeed represent xenophobia, rascism, and intolerance, but the right have stolen the nation's colours and it's time to stop being embarrassed to be English and British, and reclaim our flags and proudly assert our national and cultural identity with them.

I'm not embarrassed to be English, but I wobble at British. The last 10/15 years of foreign policy have dented the reputation of the UK.

[Turin Machine]

British by birth, English by the Grace of God.

[Timbo]

So are people now magically in support of the BNP? Confused.

[Andy Capp]

So are people now magically in support of the BNP? Confused.

Where do you read of support for the BNP on here?

[Timbo]

I'm not sure. I'm simply confused, is this a poke against the BNP or the opposite?

[Andy Capp]

I'm not sure. I'm simply confused, is this a poke against the BNP or the opposite?

My OP was a joke. It was also ambiguous. One joke is that people get all too precious over silly little flags, OR it could be a joke about the country re-claiming their heritage from the right wing extremists.

[Timbo]

I agree with the first statement.
They are only flags at the end of the day, personally I don't care for nationalism these days. Our country isn't great despite how many people say proudly "we are the greatest country in the world."

There are so many reasons why we're not that I wouldn't know where to begin.

[NWNREADER]

Comment was made on BBC Breakfast this morning the the Right Wing has lost it's claim on the Union Flag over the weekend, and that should be maintained. The national flag is for everyone, not just an element of the population.

[Simon Kirby]

I agree with the first statement.
They are only flags at the end of the day, personally I don't care for nationalism these days. Our country isn't great despite how many people say proudly "we are the greatest country in the world."

There are so many reasons why we're not that I wouldn't know where to begin.

But flying a national flag is not an assertion than the nation "is great", it's an assertion - it's my assertion - that I am proud of my national identity and heritage and that I want to celebrate it. If you don't want to celebrate that then OK, but I'm not going into the garden to eat worms just because I'm not happy about everything our country does and represents, rather I want to reclaim our national symbols and encourage pride in what is great.

[Simon Kirby]

Comment was made on BBC Breakfast this morning the the Right Wing has lost it's claim on the Union Flag over the weekend, and that should be maintained. The national flag is for everyone, not just an element of the population.

Well said.