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> Striking firefighters had support of the public, "Organiser at Newbury Fire Station, Robin Whitman" says they d
Biker1
post Oct 5 2013, 06:21 AM
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Well?
Did they?
Same question goes for the teachers.
It is all very well for folks to make these bold statements but are they true?
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Strafin
post Oct 5 2013, 08:23 AM
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As I understand it, there is to be changes only made to future pensions - anything in the kitty already is safe. The public sector enjoy brilliant pensions at everyone elses expense and unfortunatly as the sector has grown in numbers; the pot has to go a little further. I have only just got my first pension at thirty five as the government now forces companies to have a scheme, anyone who has the offer of a backed up pension should consider themselves quite lucky. Pensions are an investment, and like any other investment are subject to fluctuations and risk.
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On the edge
post Oct 5 2013, 04:04 PM
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Sadly, the pension fund was abused. I seem to recall they were letting people go on a pension at 50 - simply because they were redundant. In some cases these 'pensioners' returned to similar well paid positions with other public sector organisations! The pensions in public service have traditionally been very good, quite unmatched by anything on offer in much of the private sector. Even where they were, company consolidation, liquidation and Gordon Brown have left lots of disadvantaged people. The public sector gravy train has to stop - firemen and teachers should not be exempt from economic reality.


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Biker1
post Oct 5 2013, 06:37 PM
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The teachers are always saying that they work at weekends and school holidays.
Why don't they go on strike then? tongue.gif
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On the edge
post Oct 5 2013, 07:26 PM
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QUOTE (Biker1 @ Oct 5 2013, 07:37 PM) *
The teachers are always saying that they work at weekends and school holidays.
Why don't they go on strike then? tongue.gif

Apparently they are in some places! Working holidays and weekends only makes up for the very short days. rolleyes.gif


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NWNREADER
post Oct 5 2013, 07:31 PM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Oct 5 2013, 08:26 PM) *
Working holidays and weekends only makes up for the very short days. rolleyes.gif


As I know some teachers I also know only too well the 'short hours and long holidays' are so far from the truth I wonder how the myth endures.......
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On the edge
post Oct 5 2013, 07:39 PM
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QUOTE (NWNREADER @ Oct 5 2013, 08:31 PM) *
As I know some teachers I also know only too well the 'short hours and long holidays' are so far from the truth I wonder how the myth endures.......

So do I, whining and winging about every suggestion or changes doesn't help! I don't known of any other group of workers who want their working lives so prescribed.


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The Hatter
post Oct 5 2013, 08:22 PM
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My ex was a teacher; after a night out with her mates you'd want to slit your wrist. All they talked about was school and how bad it all was.
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Exhausted
post Oct 6 2013, 10:41 AM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Oct 5 2013, 05:04 PM) *
Sadly, the pension fund was abused. I seem to recall they were letting people go on a pension at 50 - simply because they were redundant. In some cases these 'pensioners' returned to similar well paid positions with other public sector organisations! The pensions in public service have traditionally been very good, quite unmatched by anything on offer in much of the private sector. Even where they were, company consolidation, liquidation and Gordon Brown have left lots of disadvantaged people. The public sector gravy train has to stop - firemen and teachers should not be exempt from economic reality.


It is fairly common for private companies to offer early retirement, usually at 55 with a certain minimum employment term. A pension of this type would pay an annual amount according to age and years served. There usually is an opportunity to defer until 65 and build the amount according to the profit level of the pension fund.
There would be nothing in the rules which prevented the new pensioner going on to other employment.
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On the edge
post Oct 6 2013, 12:46 PM
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QUOTE (Exhausted @ Oct 6 2013, 11:41 AM) *
It is fairly common for private companies to offer early retirement, usually at 55 with a certain minimum employment term. A pension of this type would pay an annual amount according to age and years served. There usually is an opportunity to defer until 65 and build the amount according to the profit level of the pension fund.
There would be nothing in the rules which prevented the new pensioner going on to other employment.

Very few private companies, and then mostly very large ones. Yes, they all have rules, but the public service rules have been bent to breaking point. We've had some great examples locally over the years, head teacher going at 49, senior head of department who took the job as WBC was created, disappeared on a pension a short time later and returned working for a consultancy! Great work if you can get it, but as the big private sector firms discovered a good while back; the good times are over.


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Exhausted
post Oct 6 2013, 02:27 PM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Oct 6 2013, 01:46 PM) *
Very few private companies, and then mostly very large ones. Yes, they all have rules, but the public service rules have been bent to breaking point. We've had some great examples locally over the years, head teacher going at 49, senior head of department who took the job as WBC was created, disappeared on a pension a short time later and returned working for a consultancy! Great work if you can get it, but as the big private sector firms discovered a good while back; the good times are over.


But surely the're not on a full pension as if they had worked until 65 and are getting pro rata to what they had contributed during their employ. If it is the reduced amount, then I would say they are entitled. It's a bit of a minefield the private and the government sponsored pension schemes.
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On the edge
post Oct 6 2013, 03:03 PM
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The key issue is the final salary scheme; which very few, if any, private sector firms can provide. Yet it still reigns supreme in the public sector. I'd have rather more sympathy if they'd suffered the same treatment over the past few years. Of course, private firms don't have national collective bargaining powers, or paid for trades union representation. Never mind, we are all in this together....


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Biker1
post Oct 6 2013, 07:17 PM
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But DO the striking firefighters and teachers have the "overwhelming" support of the public??
Perhaps I should have put a poll on this thread?
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On the edge
post Oct 6 2013, 07:52 PM
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QUOTE (Biker1 @ Oct 6 2013, 08:17 PM) *
But DO the striking firefighters and teachers have the "overwhelming" support of the public??
Perhaps I should have put a poll on this thread?

Sorry Biker!

No they don't - certainly not from the public I associate with every day!


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spartacus
post Oct 6 2013, 09:32 PM
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Nor me, or my mates I drink with. Firemen push the image of them running into infernos to save young children as being part of their daily working experience. Some have had to do that and I'm not knocking them. But one of my drinking buddies became a fireman after leaving the Forces and in 13 years of service never actually had to deal with a 'full on blaze' in his entire working career. Damping down grass fires, attending car accidents, putting out smoking chimneys.. That was more his experience. Oh and catching up on his sleep while on shift. That was his bread and butter. The 'fire' stuff was an inconvenience that got in the way of his other job he was also holding down...

Nice job if you can get it.
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Biker1
post Oct 7 2013, 05:11 AM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Oct 6 2013, 08:52 PM) *
No they don't - certainly not from the public I associate with every day!

Same here, so from where does Mr. Whitman draw his conclusions then? blink.gif
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dannyboy
post Oct 7 2013, 08:12 AM
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QUOTE (spartacus @ Oct 6 2013, 10:32 PM) *
Nice job if you can get it.

Wouldn't they have you?
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On the edge
post Oct 7 2013, 08:54 AM
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QUOTE (Biker1 @ Oct 7 2013, 06:11 AM) *
Same here, so from where does Mr. Whitman draw his conclusions then? blink.gif


I'd hazard a guess it was the same way that the Hunt claims 'popular support' - because the public like stroking the doggies at Newbury show.

This tactic is used when the promotors have no other valid justifications for their actions.

So his statement has no credence, save with the press, who like to use such comments to pad out stories. Just like when they ask mothers of convicted crims. What they think of their offspring - even Mrs Kray had a good word for her Reggie and Ronnie.


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Biker1
post Oct 11 2013, 09:17 AM
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They're at it again!
"however, union officials have now said that the first strike did not achieve the desired outcome." rolleyes.gif
" firefighters could not be more serious about protecting public safety". blink.gif
Looks like we are in for more of the same..........“However, more strikes cannot be ruled out if that’s what it takes to protect public and firefighter safety from these ludicrous attacks.”
Are the proposals "ludicrous" and would public safety be under threat if they were implemented?
I don't think many working people have escaped changes to their pension scheme (if they have one) and the overall trend to work later in life.
Perhaps the Fire Service should be privatised? wink.gif
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dannyboy
post Oct 11 2013, 11:19 AM
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QUOTE (Biker1 @ Oct 11 2013, 10:17 AM) *
They're at it again!
"however, union officials have now said that the first strike did not achieve the desired outcome." rolleyes.gif
" firefighters could not be more serious about protecting public safety". blink.gif
Looks like we are in for more of the same..........“However, more strikes cannot be ruled out if that’s what it takes to protect public and firefighter safety from these ludicrous attacks.”
Are the proposals "ludicrous" and would public safety be under threat if they were implemented?
I don't think many working people have escaped changes to their pension scheme (if they have one) and the overall trend to work later in life.
Perhaps the Fire Service should be privatised? wink.gif

I think you'll find it isn't just about pensions.

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