Heard this one before Options

[Penelope]

From the BBC

"David Cameron has said the British people must "have their say" on Europe as he pledged an in/out referendum if the Conservatives win the election".

an attempt to diffuse the UKIP threat? Think you'll get a vote? Get real!

[JeffG]

If anything persuaded me not to vote Tory, this would be it. Seems to me Cameron is somewhere to the right of Thatcher (or Genghis Khan as she is affectionately known by some).

[TallDarkAndHands...]

From the BBC

"David Cameron has said the British people must "have their say" on Europe as he pledged an in/out referendum if the Conservatives win the election".

an attempt to diffuse the UKIP threat? Think you'll get a vote? Get real!

Could not agree more. 2018 as well. Do me a favour.

a: he won't win the next election
b: if he does he'll renege on this "promise"

The sad thing is none of the traditional main stream parties will allow the British people to have a say in this. Time to rip up the old 2 / 3 party system and start again. You may be for a federal Europe or against it. But it's time the old "you had a vote in 1973" line was put to bed.

[motormad]

So will we get a referendum on leaving the EU that the Government will actually listen to?

[JeffG]

We have too much invested in our membership of the EU to even contemplate leaving. Sadly, a large proportion of the British public who can't see beyond the shores of this island doesn't seem to think so, which is why a referendum would place our future in jeopardy.

[TallDarkAndHands...]

We have too much invested in our membership of the EU to even contemplate leaving. Sadly, a large proportion of the British public who can't see beyond the shores of this island doesn't seem to think so, which is why a referendum would place our future in jeopardy.

Interesting Jeff. You don't agree with democracy then?

[lordtup]

The problem I have with plebiscites is that the outcome tends to be in the hands of those who are voting ad hoc and not through considered research . Membership of Europe is far to complex to agree or dismiss on the information available on the day . No one other than a certifiable Europhile would argue the case to continued membership in the present climate , but ,and it's a very big but , Europe is going to change ,it has to , and when it does wake up to the world market it will be a very different place politically and economically .
I do not propose to advocate either way because quite simply I do not know , but I do know that the last 40 years of the EU have by and large been an unmitigating disaster .

[Andy Capp]

I do not propose to advocate either way because quite simply I do not know , but I do know that the last 40 years of the EU have by and large been an unmitigating disaster .

What has been a disaster? The single currency has failed, but that failure will just mean more rules that will shore it up.

[Squelchy]

Interesting Jeff. You don't agree with democracy then?

So are the majority always right then?

[blackdog]

Since the Treaty of Rome started the EEC no two member countries have been at war with each other - judging from past history I'd say that is the greatest achievement of the EU.

[TallDarkAndHands...]

So are the majority always right then?

No they are not always right but they should decide. Otherwise you end up in a dictatorship.

[Penelope]

Since the Treaty of Rome started the EEC no two member countries have been at war with each other - judging from past history I'd say that is the greatest achievement of the EU.

Give it time.

[Dodgys smarter b...]

Honestly, this Referendum pledge is a principled stand by a principled man and not at all about short term narrow-minded political gain.

Seriously, it's not just to take enough votes from UKIP that he doesn't have to go through this coalition thingy again after the next election.

[stewiegriffin]

So Cameron 'wants' us to have our say but only if we re-elect him. If he had any real will on the subject he should be calling a referendum now, not after he's bribed us to vote for him.

Unsurprising to hear the old "If you don't want to be in the EU then you don't understand the issues" line being trotted out here.

I understand just fine thanks. And anyone who thinks Europe won't want to trade with us if we leave may be themselves failing to understand a few issues. Germany won't want to lose it's largest export market for a start.

Overall, I believe we would be better out than in. It's just a shame I'm expected to vote for Dave before I get a say in the matter.

[Squelchy]

... you don't understand the issues....
I understand just fine thanks. Germany won't want to lose it's largest export market for a start.

Clearly you don't understand.

Germany's export markets by size:

France 9.4%,
U.S. 6.8%,
Netherlands 6.6%,
U.K. 6.2%,
Italy 6.2%,
China 5.7%,
Austria 5.5%,
Belgium 4.7%,
Switzerland 4.4%

Germany's import markets:

China 9.7%,
Netherlands 8.4%,
France 7.6%,
U.S. 5.7%,
Italy 5.2%,
U.K. 4.7%,
Belgium 4.2%,
Austria 4.1%,
Switzerland 4.1%

Latest figures available 2011.

[Cognosco]

From the BBC

"David Cameron has said the British people must "have their say" on Europe as he pledged an in/out referendum if the Conservatives win the election".

an attempt to diffuse the UKIP threat? Think you'll get a vote? Get real!

And after his "There will be not top down reorganisation of the NHS" does he expect anyone in the UK to believe a word that stutters from his mouth?

[stewiegriffin]

Clearly you don't understand.



Latest figures available 2011.

Clearly you need more current data. Try 2012 instead. Figures released in the last few days for the first 9 months of 2012 and reported widely on the BBC and elsewhere. Britain is now Germany's biggest trade partner. Trade with France is diminishing quite fast.

Sorry about that.

[Weavers Walk]

Clearly you need more current data. Try 2012 instead. Figures released in the last few days for the first 9 months of 2012 and reported widely on the BBC and elsewhere. Britain is now Germany's biggest trade partner. Trade with France is diminishing quite fast.

Changed it to trade partner have you? Looking at you original post you definitely said 'export market'. Can we have a link to justify your 'export' market' claim please? (Because your not confused - are you?)

Total trading figures and just export figures are two very different things.

Link?

[stewiegriffin]

Link?

Google was invented for this very purpose. Feel free to try it. As for me, I heard it on the BBC. I think the Telegraph did something on the news too.

[Amelie]

I heard it on the BBC. I think the Telegraph did something on the news too.

Um, are you saying that members of this forum should be guided in their deliberations by something you say you heard?
Yeah, 'bout right.