EU fail #1: low CO2 targets and filthy diesels cars Options

[Andy Capp]

But, but, Jeremy's gonna win! He said it on BBC today! Calling him a liar?

I didn't see any reference to Corbyn, only the lying prime minister.

[je suis Charlie]

Then we now need to be putting enormous pressure on Mrs M to get our trade and industry back. Let's see the city start earning real money for the Country.

Let me spell it out to you, I obviously need to. It won't be 'Mrs M' that we will need to put pressure on when Jeremy is in charge. Now will it! Unless of course he is lying when he said that. But Jeremy wouldn't lie, would he? It's not difficult is it, I know you're a bit challenged but still. Do TRY to keep up with the adults

[On the edge]

Let me spell it out to you, I obviously need to. It won't be 'Mrs M' that we will need to put pressure on when Jeremy is in charge. Now will it! Unless of course he is lying when he said that. But Jeremy wouldn't lie, would he? It's not difficult is it, I know you're a bit challenged but still. Do TRY to keep up with the adults

It's OK, just hold on, East Ham at the moment, next stop and you're there.

[je suis Charlie]

It's OK, just hold on, East Ham at the moment, next stop and you're there.

Yay! Are we there yet? Are we there yet?

[Biker1]

My spin, but it's fun.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-34...r-filthier.html

Counter spin?

[Turin Machine]

Diesel is cleaner now than ever before and is getting cleaner, it also generates less Co2 than petrol, the main benefit however is that government can use it as a cash cow and punish drivers for doing what the government actually told us to do. It's easier to tax motorists than to do something about all the other causes of air pollution all of which would cost more money to address.

[Andy Capp]

Diesel is cleaner now than ever before and is getting cleaner, it also generates less Co2 than petrol, the main benefit however is that government can use it as a cash cow and punish drivers for doing what the government actually told us to do. It's easier to tax motorists than to do something about all the other causes of air pollution all of which would cost more money to address.

Quite. However, we are the 'government'. It is our fault, not theirs, in my view. 'We must' buy cheap stuff and 'we must' fly and drive for pleasure. 'We want' tomatoes all year round, we must have cheap TVs in every room and a decent phone to use while we 'watch' the telly, we MUST eat meat, etc...

[On the edge]

Quite. However, we are the 'government'. It is our fault, not theirs, in my view. 'We must' buy cheap stuff and 'we must' fly and drive for pleasure. 'We want' tomatoes all year round, we must have cheap TVs in every room and a decent phone to use while we 'watch' the telly, we MUST eat meat, etc...

Sadly, after 40 odd years of 'one size fits all' education, we are now conditioned to accept and not question; thus slaves to propoganda. What's good for Tesco etc, is good for us!

[Andy Capp]

Sadly, after 40 odd years of 'one size fits all' education, we are now conditioned to accept and not question; thus slaves to propoganda. What's good for Tesco etc, is good for us!

Notwithstanding sustainability and a lack of your average Joe taking some responsibility for their part in all this. The western world is arrogant and selfish.

[On the edge]

Notwithstanding sustainability and a lack of your average Joe taking some responsibility for their part in all this. The western world is arrogant and selfish.

Totally! And that may well be our eventual downfall.

[Turin Machine]

I see that new research has shown airborne particulates are also being pumped out in massive quantities by petrol engines as well. VW are now going to fit filters on all new petrol engines.

[Biker1]

Is the electric car revolution as "eco friendly" as we are lead to believe.
Seems there is always an environmental / human cost no matter what form of energy we decide to use up!
Link

[SirWilliam]

Totally! And that may well be our eventual downfall.

All "empires" have their day . The Romans, Ottomans , Blackburn Rovers . It is decreed from upon high that complacency is the precursor of decline so accept and get used to eating turnips 3 times a day.

I very much doubt that the electric car is the answer until we develop a generating system that isn't fossil fuel based .

How about a sail on top of your 4x4 ?

[blackdog]

I very much doubt that the electric car is the answer until we develop a generating system that isn't fossil fuel based .

Nuclear, wind, solar, tidal, what more do you want?

[Turin Machine]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-47...Fzen.yandex.com

[SirWilliam]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-47...Fzen.yandex.com

I read this earlier and , though it is hard to stomach , if it was not for this work those children would be earning nothing. How many of the moral high grounder brigade will send enough in aid to alleviate their need ? The same criteria applies to the child sex trade , ivory poaching et cetera .

Market force dictates and will continue to do so and the exploitation of those less fortunate will follow . The man who has a penny can buy something costing a penny , the one who has nothing does not have this option.

[On the edge]

I read this earlier and , though it is hard to stomach , if it was not for this work those children would be earning nothing. How many of the moral high grounder brigade will send enough in aid to alleviate their need ? The same criteria applies to the child sex trade , ivory poaching et cetera .

Market force dictates and will continue to do so and the exploitation of those less fortunate will follow . The man who has a penny can buy something costing a penny , the one who has nothing does not have this option.

But he has other options and some to the penny rich, seemingly quite unpleasant. Be very careful what you wish for!

[Biker1]

Nuclear, wind, solar, tidal, what more do you want?

All of which have an environmental impact.
(Tidal? How many MW do we generate using that?)

[blackdog]

All of which have an environmental impact.
(Tidal? How many MW do we generate using that?)

Everything we do has an environmental impact. If you want to reduce your environmental impact the biggest thing you can do is not have children.

Tidal power is in its infancy, but France has a 240MW plant, Korea a 254MW one; the Swansea project is planned to be 320MW.

And I forgot to mention hydroelectric.

[Biker1]

Everything we do has an environmental impact. If you want to reduce your environmental impact the biggest thing you can do is not have children.

Correct. Over population is the cause of most evil to the planet.

Tidal power is in its infancy, but France has a 240MW plant, Korea a 254MW one; the Swansea project is planned to be 320MW.

And I forgot to mention hydroelectric.

Interesting thanks.
I should imagine hydro- electric has the least environmental impact?
All you need is a bloody big dam!
Oh and a river.
Oh and a valley!