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> Newbury: Curfew
GMR
post Aug 5 2009, 07:16 PM
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Curfew

Because of the problems Newbury – and other areas across the country – suffer with anti social behaviour (mainly from people under the age of 18) should the police put out a curfew?

I walk my dog at about 1 in the morning – so she can go to the toilet – and I see many kids causing trouble (some as young as 8). And even if they weren’t causing trouble should such youngsters be out that time of night? When I was bringing my kids up I knew exactly where they were; tucked up in bed.

Isn’t it time to send out a message and get tough?
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Guest_Newbury Expat_*
post Aug 5 2009, 11:46 PM
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QUOTE (GMR @ Aug 5 2009, 12:16 PM) *
Curfew

Because of the problems Newbury – and other areas across the country – suffer with anti social behaviour (mainly from people under the age of 18) should the police put out a curfew?

I walk my dog at about 1 in the morning – so she can go to the toilet – and I see many kids causing trouble (some as young as 8). And even if they weren’t causing trouble should such youngsters be out that time of night? When I was bringing my kids up I knew exactly where they were; tucked up in bed.

Isn’t it time to send out a message and get tough?


Yes, but you also have to address the issue of the over 50's. I hear there's some of them in Newbury out after midnight walking their dogs. I mean what if they barked and woke some poor sod up laugh.gif

Seriously though, why not have a curfew for under 16's/18's. No reason for them to be out that late and chances are if they are out that late (and presumably bored) isn't that when people's walls lose bricks, cars gain scratches, pavements acquire bottles/cans, the air filled with expletives, etc etc?

Good kids won't be affected as they're pretty unlikely to be out after midnight anyway.

However, who will police it (would there be enough of a street presence right now, unlikely) and how would it be enforced (slap on thw wrist, parental fines)?
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Andrea
post Aug 6 2009, 07:32 AM
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I completely agree with you, GMR. When I was growing up, I had a curfew which was given to me by my parents. If I was out with friends I had a curfew of 11pm - Only on the weekend! School nights it was 9pm. I respected this curfew so it was never a problem with me. I know that 99% of the kids out there would not respect their parents curfew so a police enforced curfew would be the only option. Unfortunately I can't see the police agreeing with this as this would just be 'extra work' for them to do and would probably say something like 'We're not babysitters'.
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TallDarkAndHands...
post Aug 6 2009, 07:45 AM
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Did you see the mother with the Anti Social Kids on the TV program about crime on BBC1 the other night from Oxford?

I think the word 'pikey' springs to mind and the film Snatch.

Her kids had no chance and the only way they would have had a chance were if they were either removed from her at birth or she had been neutered to start with.

As for living next door to this clan. You could not live with it.
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Iommi
post Aug 6 2009, 08:32 AM
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Before I was 16 and if it were past 21:00, I would sometimes be stopped by police just to ask who I was and where I was going, etc. I don't think a curfew is practical and in some cases would be a hand grenade to crack a nut, but it could be a system that is installed if an area becomes a problem.

RE: the program on Monday night, it amazed me how long it took to get to a point where a social housing tenant could be moved, a matter of years is not good enough. What it also showed, is how sometimes it doesn't require force to make a change for the good.
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Instigator
post Aug 6 2009, 08:52 AM
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QUOTE (Iommi @ Aug 6 2009, 09:32 AM) *
Before I was 16 and if it were past 21:00, I would sometimes be stopped by police just to ask who I was and where I was going, etc.



I also remember this happening, I even recall that when the the local bobby changed, they would ask me what I was doing up and about at 5 am when I would be on my way to do my paper round.

although I think that a curfew would have some benefits, it would need to be enforced strictly from the outset. most of the urchins that have ASBO's dont even respect those limitations, so I just cant see it working.


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TallDarkAndHands...
post Aug 6 2009, 08:54 AM
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RE: the program on Monday night, it amazed me how long it took to get to a point where a social housing tenant could be moved, a matter of years is not good enough. What it also showed, is how sometimes it doesn't require force to make a change for the good.
[/quote]

The reason for that is that Scum have 'Human' rights - Even when they phone the poor woman beneath them and say they are sharpening their files and are going to do her.
If they had gone and killed her it would have all been hushed up anyway.
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GMR
post Aug 6 2009, 10:04 AM
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QUOTE (Newbury Expat @ Aug 6 2009, 12:46 AM) *
Yes, but you also have to address the issue of the over 50's. I hear there's some of them in Newbury out after midnight walking their dogs. I mean what if they barked and woke some poor sod up laugh.gif

Seriously though, why not have a curfew for under 16's/18's. No reason for them to be out that late and chances are if they are out that late (and presumably bored) isn't that when people's walls lose bricks, cars gain scratches, pavements acquire bottles/cans, the air filled with expletives, etc etc?

Good kids won't be affected as they're pretty unlikely to be out after midnight anyway.

However, who will police it (would there be enough of a street presence right now, unlikely) and how would it be enforced (slap on thw wrist, parental fines)?



How about we reinforce it with the threat of the death penalty? wink.gif


As for who will patrol it; what are the PCSO’s, wardens, police for? Apart from arresting people for minor crime. wink.gif


As for ‘over 50 walking their dog’; I agree, unless they are good looking cool.gif wink.gif
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GMR
post Aug 6 2009, 10:07 AM
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QUOTE (Andrea @ Aug 6 2009, 08:32 AM) *
I completely agree with you, GMR. When I was growing up, I had a curfew which was given to me by my parents. If I was out with friends I had a curfew of 11pm - Only on the weekend! School nights it was 9pm. I respected this curfew so it was never a problem with me. I know that 99% of the kids out there would not respect their parents curfew so a police enforced curfew would be the only option. Unfortunately I can't see the police agreeing with this as this would just be 'extra work' for them to do and would probably say something like 'We're not babysitters'.



That is the problem; when we were kids we had boundaries. We knew that if we overstepped them we would not only cop it from our parents, but also the police. Nowadays the parents don’t seem to care and the police are more worried about the thugs human rights.
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GMR
post Aug 6 2009, 10:26 AM
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QUOTE (Iommi @ Aug 6 2009, 09:32 AM) *
Before I was 16 and if it were past 21:00, I would sometimes be stopped by police just to ask who I was and where I was going, etc. I don't think a curfew isn't practical and in some cases would be a hand grenade to crack a nut, but it could be a system that is installed if an area becomes a problem.

RE: the program on Monday night, it amazed me how long it took to get to a point where a social housing tenant could be moved, a matter of years is not good enough. What it also showed, is how sometimes it doesn't require force to make a change for the good.



I’ve been the victim of anti social behaviour and as I am a Sovereign tenant there is a procedure to go through. First you have to fill in a log; this could take anything from months to many, many years. On top of that Sovereign expect you to go to relate with your neighbours. They also need hard proof before they will prosecute. In the end nothing was done. Sovereign’s policy is not to prosecute and they are often reminded of peoples human right, never mind mine or anybody else’s who have never done anything wrong. In other words the cards are stacked against you.
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GMR
post Aug 6 2009, 10:29 AM
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QUOTE (Instigator @ Aug 6 2009, 09:52 AM) *
I also remember this happening, I even recall that when the the local bobby changed, they would ask me what I was doing up and about at 5 am when I would be on my way to do my paper round.

although I think that a curfew would have some benefits, it would need to be enforced strictly from the outset. most of the urchins that have ASBO's dont even respect those limitations, so I just cant see it working.



To have a curfew the police need to do their job, here lies the problem.


One of the other things; the police know who exactly the trouble makers are. But they’ve got to be careful of their human rights.
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user23
post Aug 7 2009, 06:55 PM
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Why should the curfew just be for under 16s/18s? As you say, isn’t it time to send out a message and get tough?


Is "walking the dog" a euphemism for something else, by the way? wink.gif
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GMR
post Aug 7 2009, 07:00 PM
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QUOTE (user23 @ Aug 7 2009, 07:55 PM) *
Is "walking the dog" a euphemism for something else, by the way? wink.gif



Yes, I am running a brothel and I take them for a walk occasionally; to air their souls. Obviously I couldn't use the actual words... but you saw straight through me, didn't you user23? There is certainly no flies on you laugh.gif wink.gif
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Chesapeake
post Aug 7 2009, 07:23 PM
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QUOTE (GMR @ Aug 6 2009, 11:26 AM) *
I’ve been the victim of anti social behaviour and as I am a Sovereign tenant there is a procedure to go through. First you have to fill in a log; this could take anything from months to many, many years. On top of that Sovereign expect you to go to relate with your neighbours. They also need hard proof before they will prosecute. In the end nothing was done. Sovereign’s policy is not to prosecute and they are often reminded of peoples human right, never mind mine or anybody else’s who have never done anything wrong. In other words the cards are stacked against you.


Ok, GMR, yiou have me intrigued. You have mentioned before about the fact that you have been the victim of anti-social behaviour and you don't seem to imply that you have had any help in dealing with it from the powers that be or from your landlord. I find this a challenge that i cannot let go. Firstly, your landlord has a responsibility towards you as it's tenant. All tenants especially Sovereign Housing Tenants sign contracts to say that they agree to the rules and regs. Proof is always necessary in order to prosecute but, proof can come in many forms. I am assuming they have been through the old ABC channels at the least? Please let me know a little more info if you want? smile.gif



It does seem to me that the youngsters of Newbury and surrounding areas are a pain in the neck (to put it politely). There are things that can be done but nothing will happen unless endless complaints are made and therefore it flags up as a problem area. Please understand that the police usually do not know that it is a problem unless people tell them so. They cannot be everywhere being everything to everyone. wink.gif
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GMR
post Aug 7 2009, 08:02 PM
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QUOTE (Chesapeake @ Aug 7 2009, 08:23 PM) *
Ok, GMR, yiou have me intrigued. You have mentioned before about the fact that you have been the victim of anti-social behaviour and you don't seem to imply that you have had any help in dealing with it from the powers that be or from your landlord. I find this a challenge that i cannot let go. Firstly, your landlord has a responsibility towards you as it's tenant. All tenants especially Sovereign Housing Tenants sign contracts to say that they agree to the rules and regs. Proof is always necessary in order to prosecute but, proof can come in many forms. I am assuming they have been through the old ABC channels at the least? Please let me know a little more info if you want? smile.gif



It does seem to me that the youngsters of Newbury and surrounding areas are a pain in the neck (to put it politely). There are things that can be done but nothing will happen unless endless complaints are made and therefore it flags up as a problem area. Please understand that the police usually do not know that it is a problem unless people tell them so. They cannot be everywhere being everything to everyone. wink.gif



I’ll let you know anything you want to know my friend.

It is nice all those rules you’ve mentioned; but it is just wall paper to cover over the cracks. I used to be part of Sovereign Housing tenants association so I know what’s what. It is very, very hard to evict somebody from their home. Sovereign or any land lord has to have years of abusive behaviour before they can even think about taking it to court.

I was involved with a case where one tenant family was terrorising another and this was going on for years. While this was happening – and the terrorised family was ill over it – Sovereign where compiling reports after reports. What they wanted was something solid; they had CCTV evidence but they wanted more. So I said – jokingly – how about of the bad ones murder the good ones? “That would get us an eviction” I was told, drily.

As for me; I was filling out log sheet after log sheet. Then there was a month of quiet and because I didn’t report anything for a month it was all dropped. When I complained again it started again from scratch. This went on for over 5 years; beaten by exhaustion I gave up, as most people end up doing.

I’ve also been involved in the NAG and the our local community committees so I know all about reporting things; they are a waste of time. I’ll give you two examples; kids were dismantling the roof of Fir Tree school and were caught red handed; police refused to prosecute because they were under age.

A lamppost outside the community was pulled down and people witnessed it but nobody was prosecuted... when I asked why “we haven’t got proof”. I said if you know their names then you must have proof. But nothing was done. I no longer go to such meetings as their only purpose was to give everybody a pat on the back.
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spartacus
post Aug 7 2009, 08:31 PM
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QUOTE (GMR @ Aug 7 2009, 09:02 PM) *
I no longer go to such meetings as their only purpose was to give everybody a pat on the back.

I agree.. The NAG meetings are a wasted couple of hours of my life that I never get back. "Oooh, oooh... we've got a meeting. Shall we ask the residents what their problems are so we can produce graphs and reports but ensure nothing concrete actually gets done....?"

Hopeless waste of time and box ticking exercise in 'community policing and problem resolution'

Please spare me.....
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GMR
post Aug 7 2009, 09:08 PM
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QUOTE (spartacus @ Aug 7 2009, 09:31 PM) *
I agree.. The NAG meetings are a wasted couple of hours of my life that I never get back. "Oooh, oooh... we've got a meeting. Shall we ask the residents what their problems are so we can produce graphs and reports but ensure nothing concrete actually gets done....?"

Hopeless waste of time and box ticking exercise in 'community policing and problem resolution'

Please spare me.....



Exactly. I voiced my opinion on something once and I was told that this wasn’t the time and place; I then asked where was the time and place. I didn’t get an answer. It seemed certain people had an agenda. The interesting thing was that the only people who went to such meetings were the councillors, a sovereign representative and idiots like me (who, I might add was on the committee). Apart from that nobody from the area turned up.
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Iommi
post Aug 7 2009, 09:50 PM
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QUOTE (GMR @ Aug 7 2009, 10:08 PM) *
Exactly. I voiced my opinion on something once and I was told that this wasn’t the time and place; I then asked where was the time and place. I didn’t get an answer. It seemed certain people had an agenda. The interesting thing was that the only people who went to such meetings were the councillors, a sovereign representative and idiots like me (who, I might add was on the committee). Apart from that nobody from the area turned up.

And that sums it up. If the local population don't bother or care, why should the authorities?
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GMR
post Aug 7 2009, 09:54 PM
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QUOTE (Iommi @ Aug 7 2009, 10:50 PM) *
And that sums it up. If the local population don't bother or care, why should the authorities?



You miss the point. People do care, but those committees were created to slap people on the back and say they were doing a good job, when they weren’t. A few controlled it for their own ends. People who turned up didn’t get a look in.

When it was originally set up people voiced their opinions and it was worth it... but things changed and people left. It is no good having a committee if the committees objective was different than the people it was trying to/ or was supposed to represent.
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Iommi
post Aug 7 2009, 10:26 PM
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I'll put it another way. If the neighbourhood's constituents had the same 'enthusiasm' as you, would they all have just sloped off home? I doubt it. You would have all got together and taken on the task yourselves.

I have read and watched of several instances where a regular tenants of a housing estates got fed up of the inaction of the authorities and took on the drug dealers, etc, head on. The most successful action these people took was to gel the community together. When a community gets together, they can achieve so much more. The snag is, it takes effort, from everyone.
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