Paris. Options

[Andy Capp]

Or in another way, is flattening Syria (which is not what is proposed) going to deal with threats from terror cells across the 'free world'? Or is this to allow some of us to 'feel better'?

[blackdog]

Bombing Syria will no doubt make us feel so much better. Not that it will make any difference on the ground. The only way to keep Islamic fundamentalists out of power in the middle east is to invade the lot and keep a few hundred thousand troops on the ground for a century or so.

Or we can stay out of it - which, eventually, we seem to have done in Iran. Now Iran seems like an oasis of calm in comparison with its neighbours the west is bombing.

Either way a lot of locals will suffer - there is no perfect solution - but the place will probably calm down a lot quicker if left to sort itself out.

[Simon Kirby]

Bombing Syria will no doubt make us feel so much better. Not that it will make any difference on the ground. The only way to keep Islamic fundamentalists out of power in the middle east is to invade the lot and keep a few hundred thousand troops on the ground for a century or so.

Or we can stay out of it - which, eventually, we seem to have done in Iran. Now Iran seems like an oasis of calm in comparison with its neighbours the west is bombing.

Either way a lot of locals will suffer - there is no perfect solution - but the place will probably calm down a lot quicker if left to sort itself out.

Britain supported the CIA in overthrowing the legitimate democratic Iranian government in the fifties and installed a pro-western dictator. Little wonder the people of Iran are distrustful of the west, and particularly the Christian extremists of the USA who subvert a peaceful religion in order to motivate their feckless population into supporting an oil-inspired colonial expansion.

[je suis Charlie]

Of course we will always be safe under Labour leadership. Oh, wait! Iraq! As you were then!

[Nothing Much]

The British interests in Iran were to be nationalised in 1950 or so. OK said the bosses. we'll blow everything up...
Right said the legitimate government we 'll detain UK citizens (including moi) in camps.

UK backed down and we were all evacuated on a battle cruiser.

Who on earth would have called their son.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kermit_Roosevelt,_Jr.

It was to do with communist influence in the area as well. "The great Game" 'Twixt Russia and UK empire.
ce

[blackdog]

Britain supported the CIA in overthrowing the legitimate democratic Iranian government in the fifties and installed a pro-western dictator. Little wonder the people of Iran are distrustful of the west, and particularly the Christian extremists of the USA who subvert a peaceful religion in order to motivate their feckless population into supporting an oil-inspired colonial expansion.

Yes, we joined the US is messing about in Iran for many years (including encouraging Saddam Hussein to invade) but - eventually - we stopped. I Since when the country is calmer and a little less hard line Islamic (probably no more oppressive than our friends the Saudis). Sure they still distrust us (who can blame them?). But we are talking now, and involving them in discussions about Iraq and Syria. Another 100 years of peace and we may even be friends.

Endless warfare is not the answer.

[Andy Capp]

Of course we will always be safe under Labour leadership. Oh, wait! Iraq! As you were then!

I think while we have an electorate that appear to lack critical thinking, we will not be safe with any party; after all, the parties represent who we are.

[Andy Capp]

Yes, we joined the US is messing about in Iran for many years (including encouraging Saddam Hussein to invade) but - eventually - we stopped. I Since when the country is calmer and a little less hard line Islamic (probably no more oppressive than our friends the Saudis). Sure they still distrust us (who can blame them?). But we are talking now, and involving them in discussions about Iraq and Syria. Another 100 years of peace and we may even be friends.

Endless warfare is not the answer.

Sadly, the only warfare that 'works' has to be overwhelming (brutal, total and merciless).

[Nothing Much]

Didn't work that well Andy Capp. Brutal warfare didn't really work well in WW2.

An uncle vanished after a bombing raid on Emden.

He was in the first 1000 bomber raid on Essen earlier the same week.
"We shall wreak the whirlwind" it was 1942

His name is on stone at Runnymede.
ce

[Nothing Much]

I accept you have to stand up. When the riots over London a few years ago.
Burnings, Lootings. it was the Kebab shop owners who came onto their doorsteps.
Brandishing very big knives for essential cookery they just stood against troublesome looters.
I am sure they used some strong language

[Simon Kirby]

Yes, we joined the US is messing about in Iran for many years (including encouraging Saddam Hussein to invade) but - eventually - we stopped. I Since when the country is calmer and a little less hard line Islamic (probably no more oppressive than our friends the Saudis). Sure they still distrust us (who can blame them?). But we are talking now, and involving them in discussions about Iraq and Syria. Another 100 years of peace and we may even be friends.

Endless warfare is not the answer.

Precisely.

[je suis Charlie]

From the ISIS weather service,

"Warning! Tornados expected!"

[TallDarkAndHands...]

A death cult that believes all none believers are nothing more than a parasite to be exterminated and are happy, really happy to die in the cause.
That tends to cause lots of fear.

We are no threat to them if they were lets just call it as it is "CIVILLISED". They are not and would happily kill you, your children, your grand children and anyone you cared about without a moments hesitation.

But hey - Let's give them the benefit of the doubt and start a conversation.

France are well on the way to electing Marie Le Penne. When they do 5 million moslem's (99.9999%) of them fine nice people will be looking to relocate.

A lot will want to come here. Our infrastructure, stretched as it is will not cope. (and 0.0001%) will want to kill us all.

It is the truth. People don't like the truth. Speaking it must make me a r&&&st (to some in the PC police)

But I don't give a s**t about them.

And so as predicted the rise of the far right in Europe begins. I have a sense of deja vu.

[je suis Charlie]

And so as predicted the rise of the far right in Europe begins. I have a sense of deja vu.

The French (I assume you are referring to Marine Le Penn?) Has had a far right faction in political circles since the 1890's and Drefus.

[TallDarkAndHands...]

The French (I assume you are referring to Marine Le Penn?) Has had a far right faction in political circles since the 1890's and Drefus.

I was referring to Le Penn. However, the German right will rise with the influx of 1 million + immigrants.
The German chancellor will have blood on her hands. History will not remember her well.

[Turin Machine]

Meanwhile, from the Stop the War Coalition, “Benn does not even seem to realise that the jihadist movement that ultimately spawned Daesh is far closer to the spirit of internationalism and solidarity that drove the International Brigades than Cameron’s bombing campaign.”

Nice!

[Simon Kirby]

Meanwhile, from the Stop the War Coalition, “Benn does not even seem to realise that the jihadist movement that ultimately spawned Daesh is far closer to the spirit of internationalism and solidarity that drove the International Brigades than Cameron’s bombing campaign.”

Nice!

You're quoting Matt Carr. Much was made of his comparison, and he has responded:

Some last thoughts – from me anyway – on the International Brigades debacle. As I have tried to make clear since I wrote my piece about Hilary Benn last Thursday, I never meant to suggest any moral equivalence whatsoever between Daesh and the International Brigades. I continue to believe that the overall context of the article makes it clear that I intended no such thing, and that nobody who is familiar with my writing could ever believe that I would make such a suggestion.

That said, I recognize that the controversy which has resulted from the piece is not simply due to deliberate bad faith readings by those who wished to exploit it for their own particular purposes. I also bear some responsibility for the misinterpretations that have been placed on the piece. Many of those who have expressed outrage and disgust at the sentence in question are not familiar with my blog or my writing, and such familiarity should not have been required.

It should not have required a subsequent rebuttal from me to make my meaning clear. As a writer, I always strive to be clear and straightforward. In my reference to the International Brigades and the jihadist movement, I failed to achieve either. In my haste to attack Hilary Benn’s gross misappropriation of the International Brigades, I referred in passing to a difficult idea that required far more explanation and precision than I gave it, and left myself open to accusations of an equally gross misappropriation.

Of course I didn’t think that a paragraph from my blog would have been highlighted in the way it was, but I should have taken greater care, particularly in these difficult times, when a stray word or sentence taken out of context can easily acquire entirely different meanings to the ones you intend.

By not doing so, I inadvertently provided ammunition to those who are seeking to use the Stop the War movement to undermine Jeremy Corbyn and the movement itself. Such people will always use whatever they can find, and they have played the hand I gave them well.

But I also recognize that I gave genuine offense to people who have no such agenda, who were outraged by the comparisons they believed I was making.

To these readers, and to these readers alone, I apologize.