Our border in France., What's wrong with having it in UK? Options

[je suis Charlie]

Whereas in Calais, they have built their own...

If an asylum seeker is allowed asylum in an EU country, then after a couple of years, they have the right to avail themselves of free movement within the EU (currently including the UK). Don't confuse this with Schengen which is about border control and not free movement between countries.

Our problem with immigration (if you accept that there is too much at the moment) is that we can only deny access to non-EU citizens. This prevents us controlling numbers of immigrants effectively as well as being entirely unfair on non-EU applicants.

If we leave the EU, we can effectively control all immigration - perhaps with a points system like US, Canada, Australia and others.

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[On the edge]

Whereas in Calais, they have built their own...

If an asylum seeker is allowed asylum in an EU country, then after a couple of years, they have the right to avail themselves of free movement within the EU (currently including the UK). Don't confuse this with Schengen which is about border control and not free movement between countries.

Our problem with immigration (if you accept that there is too much at the moment) is that we can only deny access to non-EU citizens. This prevents us controlling numbers of immigrants effectively as well as being entirely unfair on non-EU applicants.

If we leave the EU, we can effectively control all immigration - perhaps with a points system like US, Canada, Australia and others.

The last paragraph sums it up; if we leave, we can....but could we and would we?

[Simon Kirby]

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Just counting down, waiting for the first howls of Xenophobe, Little Englander, racist, Nazi or indeed any other comments from the ' right on ' brigade.
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Trolling trolling trolling, keep those wagons trolling.

[Biker1]

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Just counting down, waiting for the first howls of Xenophobe, Little Englander, racist, Nazi or indeed any other comments from the ' right on ' brigade.
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You forgot "swivel eyed Daily Mail reading ignoramus"

[je suis Charlie]

So I did, so I did. Thanks for the heads up.

[Andy Capp]

So I did, so I did. Thanks for the heads up.

"Sounds like someone needs a cuddle."

[Biker1]

"Sounds like someone needs a cuddle."

Are you offering AC?

[blackdog]

If we leave the EU, we can effectively control all immigration - perhaps with a points system like US, Canada, Australia and others.

Points systems only apply to those who apply to come, the thousands who arrive through the back door don't fill in forms, they just arrive, ditch their documents and stay. This idea of some impenetrable border is a myth.

[je suis Charlie]

Are you offering AC?

Now I've read that? Going off to bleach my eyes! Shudder!

[TallDarkAndHands...]

Can someone please explain to me why official migration is 1 million over the last 5 years but the numbers of new national insurance numbers is 2.25 million over the same period. Is someone telling porkies?

[Simon Kirby]

Can someone please explain to me why official migration is 1 million over the last 5 years but the numbers of new national insurance numbers is 2.25 million over the same period. Is someone telling porkies?

Are you forgetting people who are born here? There were around 3.5 million babies born in the UK over the last 5 years, they'll get NI Numbers won't they?

Also, is your 1 million figure net immigration? That's would mean that over this period 1 million more people stayed than left, but as NI Numbers are (presumably) issued to everyone who arrives the 2.25 million looks like the total number of immigrants, with 1 million less than this leaving in the same period.

[TallDarkAndHands...]

Are you forgetting people who are born here? There were around 3.5 million babies born in the UK over the last 5 years, they'll get NI Numbers won't they?

Also, is your 1 million figure net immigration? That's would mean that over this period 1 million more people stayed than left, but as NI Numbers are (presumably) issued to everyone who arrives the 2.25 million looks like the total number of immigrants, with 1 million less than this leaving in the same period.

My point is can we not have some detail? It will help people make a personal judgement on whether they think immigration is to high or indeed if we should be welcoming more people. No one seems to know.

[Simon Kirby]

My point is can we not have some detail? It will help people make a personal judgement on whether they think immigration is to high or indeed if we should be welcoming more people. No one seems to know.

I was going to ask what this was all about, but then I found Nigel Farage in the Daily Mail - there's your problem.

[TallDarkAndHands...]

I was going to ask what this was all about, but then I found Nigel Farage in the Daily Mail - there's your problem.

So you are saying we should all be good little mushrooms and be kept in the dark?

[je suis Charlie]

Nigel, top bloke!

[x2lls]

Are you forgetting people who are born here? There were around 3.5 million babies born in the UK over the last 5 years, they'll get NI Numbers won't they?

Also, is your 1 million figure net immigration? That's would mean that over this period 1 million more people stayed than left, but as NI Numbers are (presumably) issued to everyone who arrives the 2.25 million looks like the total number of immigrants, with 1 million less than this leaving in the same period.

Not until age 16, so still approx 10 years to go based on your figures, for the numbers to add up.

[TallDarkAndHands...]

Not until age 16, so still approx 10 years to go based on your figures, for the numbers to add up.

I just want cold hard facts. This will not please some.

[Simon Kirby]

Not until age 16, so still approx 10 years to go based on your figures, for the numbers to add up.

The total birth rate has been broadly the same for the last fifty years at around 700,000-odd births annually, so in any five year period you're going to be allocating some 3.5 million NI numbers, give or take, and that's an order of magnitude greater than the numbers Farage is quibbling. Anyroadup, Farage was talking about NI numbers issued to non-UK nationals.

Here's a piece in the Independent. The issue is that the turn-over of economic migrants is quite high with rather a lot going home after only a relatively short stay in the UK, and rather than accepting the objective evidence of the Office of National Statistics Farage instead is alleging a conspiracy by the ONS to hide the true level of economic migration.

BTW, the Independent says that "Anyone born in the UK is assigned a [NI] number at birth", but I'm not going to quibble if you say it's 16.

[Simon Kirby]

I just want cold hard facts. This will not please some.

If it's cold hard facts you might do better to ask the Office of National Statistics. Here's a start.

And that report rather helpfully offers "If you are new to migration statistics, you might find it helpful to read our “International migration statistics first time user guide”. "

[TallDarkAndHands...]

If it's cold hard facts you might do better to ask the Office of National Statistics. Here's a start.

And that report rather helpfully offers "If you are new to migration statistics, you might find it helpful to read our “International migration statistics first time user guide”. "

Gotta love the keyboard warrior with a hyperlink.
You try too hard sometimes....
I guess you are in the remain camp. I'm yet to make up my mind. Leaning toward no as I'm a gambler and I think it's all bluff and bluster from Brussels. They would sh@t themselves and ask us what we really want. It's all just a bl00dy game and the British have to get better at it.