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Newbury Today Forum _ Newbury News _ D-Day +75

Posted by: Phil_D11102 Apr 26 2019, 11:08 AM


Is this what the WBC, the Corn Exchange, Greenham Parish Council and the Greenham Trust has diluted the sacrifices of U.S. and British forces down to, a dramatic representation? These young men, many did not return, gathered on Greenham Common to jump into Nazi held France to start the liberation of Europe.

One of the most iconic photos of the WWII was taken on the 5th of June, and there is nothing after 75 years to commemorate this.

Shameful, simply shameful.


"The eyes of the world are upon you" General Dwight D. Eisenhower.

75 years ago, Eisenhower made his famous speech at Greenham Common to encourage allied soldiers in preparation for the D-Day landings. Commemorating the legacy of this extraordinary moment in our history on both a local and national scale, follow Eisenhower in the days leading up to this event, along with a company from the 101st Airborne Divison stationed at Greenham and hear the stories of the local people of Newbury.

Audiences can expect to be taken back in time to experience the challenges and jubilance of war and to help them better understand how it affected those living on the air base and in the local area. Taking place at the recently extended 101 Outdoor Arts Creation Space on Greenham Business Park, D-Day 75 will comprise of interactive immersive performances from over 100 community performers, which will culminate in a celebratory tea dance led by a professional band of musicians.

Written by the Watermill Theatreís playwright in residence Danielle Pearson and co-produced with Corn Exchange Newbury and Greenham Trust


Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Apr 26 2019, 12:16 PM

QUOTE (Phil_D11102 @ Apr 26 2019, 12:08 PM) *
Is this what the WBC, the Corn Exchange, Greenham Parish Council and the Greenham Trust has diluted the sacrifices of U.S. and British forces down to, a dramatic representation? These young men, many did not return, gathered on Greenham Common to jump into Nazi held France to start the liberation of Europe.

One of the most iconic photos of the WWII was taken on the 5th of June, and there is nothing after 75 years to commemorate this.

Shameful, simply shameful.


"The eyes of the world are upon you" General Dwight D. Eisenhower.

75 years ago, Eisenhower made his famous speech at Greenham Common to encourage allied soldiers in preparation for the D-Day landings. Commemorating the legacy of this extraordinary moment in our history on both a local and national scale, follow Eisenhower in the days leading up to this event, along with a company from the 101st Airborne Divison stationed at Greenham and hear the stories of the local people of Newbury.

Audiences can expect to be taken back in time to experience the challenges and jubilance of war and to help them better understand how it affected those living on the air base and in the local area. Taking place at the recently extended 101 Outdoor Arts Creation Space on Greenham Business Park, D-Day 75 will comprise of interactive immersive performances from over 100 community performers, which will culminate in a celebratory tea dance led by a professional band of musicians.

Written by the Watermill Theatreís playwright in residence Danielle Pearson and co-produced with Corn Exchange Newbury and Greenham Trust


Perhaps Donald Trump will pay a visit..

Posted by: Strafin Apr 26 2019, 03:02 PM

So you were complaining that nobody was doing anything, now they are you're complaining as it isn't enough? My Grandad is a D Day veteran and he would love to see something like this, it seems like a decent thing to do. Can't keep on every 5 years doing more and more.

Posted by: Phil_D11102 Apr 28 2019, 09:02 AM

QUOTE (Strafin @ Apr 26 2019, 04:02 PM) *
So you were complaining that nobody was doing anything, now they are you're complaining as it isn't enough? My Grandad is a D Day veteran and he would love to see something like this, it seems like a decent thing to do. Can't keep on every 5 years doing more and more.


The tower can do this "Tonight at Greenham Control Tower, Nina Wakeford gave her performance of "An apprenticeship in queer I believe it was".

A spoken word, song and words from first-person accounts of women who were interviewed in a study of the peace camp.

Projected alongside Nina were thousands of images of forget-me-nots from the nearby memorial Peace Garden, photographed one by one on 16mm film.

One of photos gives you a behind the scenes insight of two of the 16mm projectors inside the tower.

Thank-you to Nina and her team for the bring the performance to The Tower."


but cannot have anything on the 75th anniversary of the D-Day. How flipping wrong is this. They want to have their artsy fartsy dramatic interpretation of what it was like living in Newbury, that's fine, but how is that connected with the tower?

RAF GC was the main base for D-Day. Nothing to remember this, nothing to remember the Allied Commander in Chief coming to talk to his troops.

Perhaps this is the true color of what the powers that be in Newbury truly feel about the American presence. Out of sight, out of mind.


Posted by: Mr Brown Apr 28 2019, 04:12 PM

I thought the tower was erected in the aptly 1950s....a bit late for D Day. Sure, it's right, and we will commemorate the 75th anniversary of D Day - but in the right places for such a solumn occasion. Call me a killjoy, but I'm getting a tad concerned about our commemorations; the Amercian airforce wasn't the only participants and worthy though their contribution was, there used to be an old saying in our family about them being over paid, over sexed and over here. Frankly, we should remember the real heros, 18 year old lads in scratchy shapless British uniforms, who for transport would be lucky to find a bike, all on a pittance. No we haven't forgotten the war, or the allies, the Canadians, the Free French, the Australians etc.etc. and the Americans. The real shame is that we now take Hollywood as truth.

Posted by: Biker1 Apr 29 2019, 08:09 AM

Stop calling it the bloody "Peace Camp"! angry.gif
Surely we ALL want peace, it's just that there are varied views on how we achieve it?
Some may say that the presence of Greenham Airfield and the later cruise missile helped to maintain that peace?
"Protest Camp" would be a more suitable nomer.

Posted by: SirWilliam Apr 29 2019, 11:18 AM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Apr 29 2019, 09:09 AM) *
Stop calling it the bloody "Peace Camp"! angry.gif
Surely we ALL want peace, it's just that there are varied views on how we achieve it?
Some may say that the presence of Greenham Airfield and the later cruise missile helped to maintain that peace?
"Protest Camp" would be a more suitable nomer.


Well said sir. Like most viewpoints one only becomes discredited when it results in carnage, and as we are still here instead of huge mushroom cloud it appears that the correct choice was made.

Posted by: Phil_D11102 May 1 2019, 10:02 AM

QUOTE (Mr Brown @ Apr 28 2019, 05:12 PM) *
I thought the tower was erected in the aptly 1950s....a bit late for D Day. Sure, it's right, and we will commemorate the 75th anniversary of D Day - but in the right places for such a solumn occasion. Call me a killjoy, but I'm getting a tad concerned about our commemorations; the Amercian airforce wasn't the only participants and worthy though their contribution was, there used to be an old saying in our family about them being over paid, over sexed and over here. Frankly, we should remember the real heros, 18 year old lads in scratchy shapless British uniforms, who for transport would be lucky to find a bike, all on a pittance. No we haven't forgotten the war, or the allies, the Canadians, the Free French, the Australians etc.etc. and the Americans. The real shame is that we now take Hollywood as truth.


I have been contacting everyone currently connected with the tower, and I have been suggesting that a plaque is put up at the tower simply saying:

"For those who served 1942 to 1992"

It should have the Union Jack and U.S. flags on it crossover.

Nobody is interested.

I was told that there is a monument somewhere int the outlying villages regarding the U.S. forces from WWII.

Shocking that nothing official is happening anywhere in this area.

Posted by: Strafin May 1 2019, 10:08 AM

Why is it so shocking?

Were you in the forces by any chance?

Posted by: Phil_D11102 May 2 2019, 02:52 PM

QUOTE (Strafin @ May 1 2019, 11:08 AM) *
Why is it so shocking?

Were you in the forces by any chance?


Why is it shocking, because an event that openly supports the peace women which you can see in today's NWN in the arts section, but cannot hold a milestone anniversary event that if it had failed, the face of Europe could be very different today.

Was I in the forces, yes, I was. 11 years in the USAF. I fell in love with this area so much that when I was discharged in 1992 I didn't return back to the USA. Why do I find events up at the base today so disturbing, because it looks like a run down derelict POS that was once a vibrant community. All it could of taken was some work and it could be a very vibrant leisure park just like the one in Basingstoke. Why do I feel so angry about the events at the control tower, because it is plan to see that the viewpoint is slant towards to peach women and their cause, and not the full history of the base. Even in the NWN write up about the below event took place at the USAAF base. The term USAAF hasn't been used since 1947. Shows how much accuracy goes into reporting.

Tonight at Greenham Control Tower, Nina Wakeford gave her performance of "An apprenticeship in queer I believe it was".

A spoken word, song and words from first-person accounts of women who were interviewed in a study of the peace camp.

Projected alongside Nina were thousands of images of forget-me-nots from the nearby memorial Peace Garden, photographed one by one on 16mm film.

One of photos gives you a behind the scenes insight of two of the 16mm projectors inside the tower.

Thank-you to Stephen Miles and Sarah Jayne Breadmore Miles from SJ Wines for looking us and treating our audience to some fantastic wines, and Dan from Loddon Brewery for the Hullabaloo.

To all at Reading International for facilitating all this as part of https://readinginternational.org/Ö/uncommoning-voices-noncoÖ programme of events.

And finally - a huge thank-you to Nina Wakeford and her team for the bring the performance to Greenham Control Tower.

Posted by: je suis Charlie May 2 2019, 02:57 PM

It is I'm afraid can sign of the times, events that freed us from the tyranny of the Nazi's is mostly ignored except for benefits to the box office while a bunch of unwashed weekend warriors disruption of Newbury is treated as being 'cool' and 'culturally relevant'.

Posted by: newres May 2 2019, 03:03 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 2 2019, 03:57 PM) *
It is I'm afraid can sign of the times, events that freed us from the tyranny of the Nazi's is mostly ignored except for benefits to the box office while a bunch of unwashed weekend warriors disruption of Newbury is treated as being 'cool' and 'culturally relevant'.

Nazi's what?

It is a fact that Greenham is most remembered for cruise missiles and the protests. If we held a "do" at every location related to D Day we'd be swamped.

Posted by: je suis Charlie May 2 2019, 03:25 PM

QUOTE (newres @ May 2 2019, 04:03 PM) *
Nazi's what?

It is a fact that Greenham is most remembered for cruise missiles and the protests. If we held a "do" at every location related to D Day we'd be swamped.

Which would not be a bad thing, remember the sacrifice of the boys who jumped behind enemy lines, forget the smelly unwashed.

Posted by: Phil_D11102 May 2 2019, 04:05 PM

QUOTE (newres @ May 2 2019, 04:03 PM) *
Nazi's what?

It is a fact that Greenham is most remembered for cruise missiles and the protests. If we held a "do" at every location related to D Day we'd be swamped.



Thanks to the determination of NATO, the deployment of the cruise missile across Europe finished off the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact. Anyone who doesn't believe that is deluded. There are no celebrations for that.

How many of those young men who jumped out of the planes over Nazi occupied France are still alive? There will be celebrations in France for their liberation, but what about celebrating the fact that the UK didn't need to be liberated?

There is no plaque or monument up at Greenham who jumped into the night sky, and after 75 years, isn't it about time they are recognized here locally.

Again, one of the most iconic photos of WWII was taken locally, and that is not remembered anywhere in this area.

Shameful.

Posted by: je suis Charlie May 2 2019, 04:41 PM

So, out of interest Phil, where are you from originally?

Posted by: newres May 2 2019, 08:10 PM

QUOTE (Phil_D11102 @ May 2 2019, 05:05 PM) *
Thanks to the determination of NATO, the deployment of the cruise missile across Europe finished off the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact. Anyone who doesn't believe that is deluded. There are no celebrations for that.

How many of those young men who jumped out of the planes over Nazi occupied France are still alive? There will be celebrations in France for their liberation, but what about celebrating the fact that the UK didn't need to be liberated?

There is no plaque or monument up at Greenham who jumped into the night sky, and after 75 years, isn't it about time they are recognized here locally.

Again, one of the most iconic photos of WWII was taken locally, and that is not remembered anywhere in this area.

Shameful.

Itís a view. I do think thereís a strong argument that nuclear weapons kept the peace but donít forget Kennedy was willing to sacrifice us over the Cuba crisis so I shouldnít get too dewy eyed. The idea that cruise missiles finished off the Warsaw Pact is ridiculous frankly.



Posted by: Biker1 May 3 2019, 05:08 AM

QUOTE (Phil_D11102 @ May 2 2019, 03:52 PM) *
Why is it shocking, because an event that openly supports the peace women which you can see in today's NWN in the arts section, but cannot hold a milestone anniversary event that if it had failed, the face of Europe could be very different today.

Aaarrgghh!!
Not "peace women".
Protesters yes.

Posted by: Andy Capp May 6 2019, 08:34 PM

It is interesting because the Peace Camp women were not entirely appreciated by the locals, where as everyone seemed to have an American serviceman as a friend! Notwithstanding the brilliant air tattoos!

Posted by: Biker1 May 7 2019, 07:23 AM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ May 6 2019, 09:34 PM) *
It is interesting because the Peace Camp women were not entirely appreciated by the locals,

PROTEST CAMP WOMEN, PROTEST CAMP WOMEN> rolleyes.gif

Posted by: newres May 7 2019, 08:48 AM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ May 7 2019, 08:23 AM) *
PROTEST CAMP WOMEN, PROTEST CAMP WOMEN> rolleyes.gif

I've never heard them called that. It was always Peace camp. cool.gif

Posted by: Andy Capp May 7 2019, 08:17 PM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ May 7 2019, 08:23 AM) *
PROTEST CAMP WOMEN, PROTEST CAMP WOMEN> rolleyes.gif

The name of the camp(s) is a matter of record: Greenham Common Women's Peace Camp. The Greenham Common Women's Peace Camp was a camp full of people protesting about nuclear weapons. I donít see why you are getting your petticoat in a twist? 😉

Posted by: Biker1 May 8 2019, 05:09 AM

QUOTE (Andy Capp @ May 7 2019, 09:17 PM) *
The name of the camp(s) is a matter of record: Greenham Common Women's Peace Camp. The Greenham Common Women's Peace Camp was a camp full of people protesting about nuclear weapons. I don’t see why you are getting your petticoat in a twist? ��

Because it is a misnomer Andy.
We have peace which has been achieved so far with or without the camp.
Some may say it is because we had / have these weapons that peace, so far, remains.
We all want peace. If a camp had been set up in support of the weapons surely this could have been described as a "Peace Camp" also?
I know it is futile trying at this stage to rename a historical inaccuracy but just trying to make a point. smile.gif

P.S. PLEASE don't stoop to the level of newres and include personal silliness in your comments. Also an inaccuracy as I have given up wearing petticoats!!
Thanks. wink.gif

Posted by: je suis Charlie May 8 2019, 05:53 PM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ May 8 2019, 06:09 AM) *
Because it is a misnomer Andy.
We have peace which has been achieved so far with or without the camp.
Some may say it is because we had / have these weapons that peace, so far, remains.
We all want peace. If a camp had been set up in support of the weapons surely this could have been described as a "Peace Camp" also?
I know it is futile trying at this stage to rename a historical inaccuracy but just trying to make a point. smile.gif

P.S. PLEASE don't stoop to the level of newres and include personal silliness in your comments. Also an inaccuracy as I have given up wearing petticoats!!
Thanks. wink.gif

It was called the 'Womens Peace Camp' because it portrayed a warm fuzzy image of the sisterhood. The 'Bunch of Living on the Dole, smelly, crapping in the bushes getting in everyone's way Camp' didn't play so well.

Posted by: newres May 8 2019, 07:05 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 8 2019, 06:53 PM) *
It was called the 'Womens Peace Camp' because it portrayed a warm fuzzy image of the sisterhood. The 'Bunch of Living on the Dole, smelly, crapping in the bushes getting in everyone's way Camp' didn't play so well.

Are you a Newburian? I didnít move here until 91 and there was only a token number there then. How did they get in your way?

Posted by: je suis Charlie May 8 2019, 07:57 PM

QUOTE (newres @ May 8 2019, 08:05 PM) *
Are you a Newburian? I didnít move here until 91 and there was only a token number there then. How did they get in your way?

Blocking roads, weekend princesses parking all over the roads, using local pubs toilets to wash in, constantly waving stuff in your face in town. ******* horrible.

Posted by: Andy Capp May 8 2019, 10:07 PM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ May 8 2019, 06:09 AM) *
Because it is a misnomer Andy.
We have peace which has been achieved so far with or without the camp.
Some may say it is because we had / have these weapons that peace, so far, remains.
We all want peace. If a camp had been set up in support of the weapons surely this could have been described as a "Peace Camp" also?
I know it is futile trying at this stage to rename a historical inaccuracy but just trying to make a point. smile.gif

P.S. PLEASE don't stoop to the level of newres and include personal silliness in your comments. Also an inaccuracy as I have given up wearing petticoats!!
Thanks. wink.gif

Peace is subjective: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5206799/US-nuclear-tests-killed-civilians-Hiroshima.html

Posted by: je suis Charlie May 8 2019, 11:10 PM

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thevintagenews.com/2018/02/19/the-conqueror-film/amp/

Posted by: Phil_D11102 May 9 2019, 10:45 AM

The peace camp was a direct result of why NATO deployed the cruise across Europe, to ensure personal freedoms and liberties.

However, the media and left wing has turned them into martyrs, which is far from the truth.

The funniest things I think is the peace women dancing on the empty shelter in the GAMA. There was nothing in them, and they made out that is was a great triumph. Ask them if they got close when the cruise and vehicles were in there? err, no...
http://www.fredsakademiet.dk/abase/sange/greenham/song41.htm

The fact that they would disrupt the missiles deploying. They didn't even have to leave the GAMA to be used, doh.

On the 20th anniversary of the trust, during a talk at the RBL in Newbury. There were a couple of peace women in the audience who stated that they never but children in danger during the protests, and up popped a picture of a child in it's mothers arms in the middle of the road with a vehicle trying to pass. What was the response from the women, that photo was of one of the other gate's peace women..

Again, they had their place in history, but the fact is that the cruise missile deployment was one of the reasons why the Warsaw Pact fell apart, and many of the former countries are part of NATO.

It's sad that 75 years after the invasion of Europe in which the Nazi's were defeated, and the importance of Greenham Common during this time is being downplayed by a lack of official ceremonies..


Posted by: Phil_D11102 May 9 2019, 10:52 AM

QUOTE (newres @ May 2 2019, 09:10 PM) *
Itís a view. I do think thereís a strong argument that nuclear weapons kept the peace but donít forget Kennedy was willing to sacrifice us over the Cuba crisis so I shouldnít get too dewy eyed. The idea that cruise missiles finished off the Warsaw Pact is ridiculous frankly.


Are you serious? Stop drinking the Kool aid. Do you think the peace women ended the Cold War and the saw the demise of the Warsaw Pact. I guess the INF treaty had nothing to do with it.

Posted by: newres May 9 2019, 11:54 AM

QUOTE (Phil_D11102 @ May 9 2019, 11:52 AM) *
Are you serious? Stop drinking the Kool aid. Do you think the peace women ended the Cold War and the saw the demise of the Warsaw Pact. I guess the INF treaty had nothing to do with it.

Can you explain how that treaty led to the demise of the Warsaw Pact?

The Peace Women certainly raised awareness of the Americans sticking nuclear weapons on our soil. They put Greenham Common on the map too.

Posted by: Biker1 May 9 2019, 04:15 PM

OK was it the "peace" women's (I give in, I'll go along with it!) presence or the nuclear weapon's presence that maintained the peace?
And by that I mean peace in Europe and with Russia since the Cuban Crisis.

Posted by: newres May 9 2019, 05:16 PM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ May 9 2019, 05:15 PM) *
OK was it the "peace" women's (I give in, I'll go along with it!) presence or the nuclear weapon's presence that maintained the peace?
And by that I mean peace in Europe and with Russia since the Cuban Crisis.

Does it have to be one or the other? The Peace Women certainly created a lot of awareness of and opposition to US missiles on our soil. Arguably the Russian missiles prevented US aggression. I totally get why Iran wants them.

But I would say the alliance between the old enemies of France and Germany is whatís really led to peace and stability.

Posted by: je suis Charlie May 9 2019, 06:26 PM

QUOTE (newres @ May 9 2019, 06:16 PM) *
Does it have to be one or the other? The Peace Women certainly created a lot of awareness of and opposition to US missiles on our soil. Arguably the Russian missiles prevented US aggression. I totally get why Iran wants them.

But I would say the alliance between the old enemies of France and Germany is whatís really led to peace and stability.

I honestly don't know where to begin. It's either a poor education or very subtle trolling.

Posted by: newres May 9 2019, 08:43 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 9 2019, 07:26 PM) *
I honestly don't know where to begin. It's either a poor education or very subtle trolling.

Educate me then.

Posted by: je suis Charlie May 9 2019, 11:36 PM

QUOTE (newres @ May 9 2019, 09:43 PM) *
Educate me then.

I would try but I'm afraid it would be like trying to explain astro physics to a flat earther. "The Peace Women certainly created a lot of awareness of and opposition to US missiles on our soil. Arguably the Russian missiles prevented US aggression"

laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

Posted by: newres May 10 2019, 04:23 AM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 10 2019, 12:36 AM) *
I would try but I'm afraid it would be like trying to explain astro physics to a flat earther. "The Peace Women certainly created a lot of awareness of and opposition to US missiles on our soil. Arguably the Russian missiles prevented US aggression"

laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

But you havenít got any evidence to the contrary? You lot do make me laugh the way you think others are the products of mainstream media when in fact itís you thatís swallowed the lot. Itís like arguing with a 13 year old Sun reader at times.

Posted by: je suis Charlie May 10 2019, 08:19 AM

Expand on your claim that Russia prevented American aggression.

Posted by: Phil_D11102 May 10 2019, 08:49 AM

QUOTE (newres @ May 10 2019, 05:23 AM) *
But you havenít got any evidence to the contrary? You lot do make me laugh the way you think others are the products of mainstream media when in fact itís you thatís swallowed the lot. Itís like arguing with a 13 year old Sun reader at times.


Arguably the Russian missiles prevented US aggression"


I have no proof? I am the living proof. My last assignment was RAF GC. Before I arrived the INF treat was signed and I was worried they would change my assignment.

Why do you think the Russians signed the INF treaty? Because they couldn't keep up the pace of developing and deploying new systems. Why did the Russian satellite countries do away with their communist govt's? Because they were tired of being told what to do by the Russians, while NATO was working together as partners.

Why did some of the former Warsaw Pact countries send troops to a U.S. led coalition known as the first Gulf War. Didn't the Russians try to use their influence to stop it.

This isn't make believe, it is fact.

Posted by: Turin Machine May 10 2019, 09:04 AM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 10 2019, 12:36 AM) *
I would try but I'm afraid it would be like trying to explain astro physics to a flat earther. "The Peace Women certainly created a lot of awareness of and opposition to US missiles on our soil. Arguably the Russian missiles prevented US aggression"

laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

And, you were right! Reykjavik never happened, Gorby was just too worried about the women's peace camp, that's why he started pulling missiles. The Russians weren't aggressive, no no no, Cuba was a figment of our imagination! A brutal dictatorship steam rollering its way across Europe? Never happened. Iron curtain? Didn't exist. It was all American aggression all along. Good job uncle Joe was there to protect us.

Posted by: Blake May 11 2019, 08:29 PM

QUOTE (newres @ May 9 2019, 11:54 AM) *
Can you explain how that treaty led to the demise of the Warsaw Pact?

The Peace Women certainly raised awareness of the Americans sticking nuclear weapons on our soil. They put Greenham Common on the map too.


Do your homework on this; it was in fact West German government and Jim Callaghan that urged the deployment of GLCM.

Posted by: newres May 12 2019, 05:18 PM

QUOTE (Blake @ May 11 2019, 09:29 PM) *
Do your homework on this; it was in fact West German government and Jim Callaghan that urged the deployment of GLCM.

I wasn’t even in my teens, but the first result from Google doesn’t really back up what you say and I can’t imagine any Labour government “urging” a deployment here. The US have always been willing to sacrifice Europe in a nuclear war.

Posted by: Phil_D11102 May 13 2019, 07:17 AM

QUOTE (newres @ May 12 2019, 06:18 PM) *
I wasnít even in my teens, but the first result from Google doesnít really back up what you say and I canít imagine any Labour government ďurgingĒ a deployment here. The US have always been willing to sacrifice Europe in a nuclear war.


The Cruise was developed and a deterrent to the Soviet build up of their short and medium range nuclear.

The cruise and NATO resolve did it's job, it brought the Russians to the table and end the Cold War.

If anyone thinks different they need to stop drinking the kool aid made by the Greenham women and CND..

Posted by: newres May 13 2019, 09:17 AM

QUOTE (Phil_D11102 @ May 13 2019, 08:17 AM) *
The Cruise was developed and a deterrent to the Soviet build up of their short and medium range nuclear.

The cruise and NATO resolve did it's job, it brought the Russians to the table and end the Cold War.

If anyone thinks different they need to stop drinking the kool aid made by the Greenham women and CND..

That really is just an opinion. Gorbachev becoming leader had nothing to do with Cruise missiles. The Soviets already had plenty of capability to wipe out Western Europe so it wasnít a deterrent to building more. I canít pretend to have huge knowledge of the subject, but thereís some obvious nonsense being spouted on here.

Posted by: Phil_D11102 May 14 2019, 10:22 AM

QUOTE (newres @ May 13 2019, 10:17 AM) *
That really is just an opinion. Gorbachev becoming leader had nothing to do with Cruise missiles. The Soviets already had plenty of capability to wipe out Western Europe so it wasnít a deterrent to building more. I canít pretend to have huge knowledge of the subject, but thereís some obvious nonsense being spouted on here.


Your a bit slow on the uptake. Try reading this..

https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/INFtreaty

Gorbachev did play his part, as he saw that NATO wasn't going to bend. Cruise is what made Gorbachev come to the table.

Look at the map in the article, cruise was deployed willingly by NATO. Do you think Russia asked for the opinion of the the GDR and Czechoslovakia?

This in not opinion, it's fact...

Posted by: newres May 14 2019, 10:42 AM

QUOTE (Phil_D11102 @ May 14 2019, 11:22 AM) *
Your a bit slow on the uptake. Try reading this..

https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/INFtreaty

Gorbachev did play his part, as he saw that NATO wasn't going to bend. Cruise is what made Gorbachev come to the table.

Look at the map in the article, cruise was deployed willingly by NATO. Do you think Russia asked for the opinion of the the GDR and Czechoslovakia?

This in not opinion, it's fact...

Gorbachev and Perestroika is what led to arms reduction. Even your link says there was no progress until Gorbachev came along. rolleyes.gif

Posted by: je suis Charlie May 14 2019, 11:09 AM

QUOTE (newres @ May 14 2019, 11:42 AM) *
Gorbachev and Perestroika is what led to arms reduction. Even your link says there was no progress until Gorbachev came along. rolleyes.gif

And sod all to do with the gate witches.

Posted by: Phil_D11102 May 14 2019, 02:13 PM

QUOTE (newres @ May 14 2019, 11:42 AM) *
Gorbachev and Perestroika is what led to arms reduction. Even your link says there was no progress until Gorbachev came along. rolleyes.gif


Gorbachev did have the foresight to move forward and talk to Reagan, and they ultimately did sign the INF treaty. But again what made Gorbachev to make his move? Maybe the "growing number of allied intermediate-range missile warheads in Europe."
No, that couldn't make him do it. Surely it was CND and the peace women.

You seem to forget that the missiles were coming him from the UK down to Italy, where as the Russians were contained to more or less the center of the Warsaw Pact.

Posted by: newres May 14 2019, 04:00 PM

QUOTE (Phil_D11102 @ May 14 2019, 03:13 PM) *
Gorbachev did have the foresight to move forward and talk to Reagan, and they ultimately did sign the INF treaty. But again what made Gorbachev to make his move? Maybe the "growing number of allied intermediate-range missile warheads in Europe."
No, that couldn't make him do it. Surely it was CND and the peace women.

You seem to forget that the missiles were coming him from the UK down to Italy, where as the Russians were contained to more or less the center of the Warsaw Pact.

What motivated him was his vision of Perestroika which ultimately led to the break up of the Soviet Union. Signing a treaty didn't mean he had to allow the empire to split up. The continued spending was futile and he saw that. Try broadening your perspective a little.

The CND/Peace women argument is a strawman argument.

Posted by: Biker1 May 15 2019, 05:06 AM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 14 2019, 12:09 PM) *
And sod all to do with the gate witches.

laugh.gif laugh.gif
I like that one!!

Posted by: Phil_D11102 May 15 2019, 07:17 AM

QUOTE (newres @ May 14 2019, 05:00 PM) *
What motivated him was his vision of Perestroika which ultimately led to the break up of the Soviet Union. Signing a treaty didn't mean he had to allow the empire to split up. The continued spending was futile and he saw that. Try broadening your perspective a little.

The CND/Peace women argument is a strawman argument.


The INF treaty went into effect on the 1st of June 1988. 18 months later, Nicolae Ceauşescu was executed alongside his wife in Bucharest. That was more or less the last of the former Warsaw Pact to shrug off the Soviet yoke.

If you cannot see this, try looking at this:


https://www.bbc.com/bitesize/guides/zq63b9q/revision/4

Yes, Gorbachev had his part, but he realized that the Russians could not keep up with the arms race, hence the INF treaty and the start of the domino effect.

Posted by: Strafin May 15 2019, 07:55 AM

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-48169809

Seems there is more happening than you first thought Phil.

Posted by: je suis Charlie May 15 2019, 08:31 AM

QUOTE (Strafin @ May 15 2019, 08:55 AM) *
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-48169809

Seems there is more happening than you first thought Phil.

Brilliant! Thanks for the heads up, I'll be there!

Posted by: Phil_D11102 May 15 2019, 10:24 AM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 15 2019, 09:31 AM) *
Brilliant! Thanks for the heads up, I'll be there!



The event for the 75th D-day anniversary will take place on 22 June.

D-Day occurred the 5th/6th of June, not the 22nd of June.


Posted by: newres May 15 2019, 11:07 AM

QUOTE (Phil_D11102 @ May 15 2019, 11:24 AM) *
The event for the 75th D-day anniversary will take place on 22 June.

D-Day occurred the 5th/6th of June, not the 22nd of June.

No pleasing some people.

Posted by: Strafin May 15 2019, 11:40 AM

Ex forces.

Nothing is ever good enough, which is why people stop trying.

Posted by: Strafin May 15 2019, 11:52 AM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 15 2019, 09:31 AM) *
Brilliant! Thanks for the heads up, I'll be there!

I think I'll go up for that as well if I can. My Grandad is a D-Day veteran, he also got awarded the Legion D'Honour in 2015, sadly in a home now with dementia, but maybe I can get him out for it as well..

Posted by: Phil_D11102 May 15 2019, 12:08 PM

QUOTE
Nothing is ever good enough, which is why people stop trying.

No pleasing some people.


Let's celebrate Christmas the 3rd Saturday of every December, or Guy Fawkes the 17th of Nov. Maybe we can have a 53rd anniversary of the England World Cup win.

This is the 75th anniversary of the invasion of Europe.. Many young men died on the beaches and behind the Nazi's line.

This may be the last significant anniversary for those who survived the invasion and para drop.

This is not about not being good enough. It's about something happening here in Newbury/Greenham Common to acknowledge what these brave men did, on the correct day.

Is that really too much to ask for...

Posted by: newres May 15 2019, 12:26 PM

QUOTE (Phil_D11102 @ May 15 2019, 01:08 PM) *
Let's celebrate Christmas the 3rd Saturday of every December, or Guy Fawkes the 17th of Nov. Maybe we can have a 53rd anniversary of the England World Cup win.

This is the 75th anniversary of the invasion of Europe.. Many young men died on the beaches and behind the Nazi's line.

This may be the last significant anniversary for those who survived the invasion and para drop.

This is not about not being good enough. It's about something happening here in Newbury/Greenham Common to acknowledge what these brave men did, on the correct day.

Is that really too much to ask for...

Surely the important thing is where they dropped and not from their myriad departure points. Dear God!

Posted by: Andy1 May 15 2019, 02:45 PM

QUOTE (newres @ May 15 2019, 01:26 PM) *
Surely the important thing is where they dropped and not from their myriad departure points. Dear God!


What of those that didn't make it to a LZ. The last place they would have seen and stayed at would have been where they left, of course the departure points are important, regardless of how many.

Posted by: newres May 15 2019, 03:03 PM

QUOTE (Andy1 @ May 15 2019, 03:45 PM) *
What of those that didn't make it to a LZ. The last place they would have seen and stayed at would have been where they left, of course the departure points are important, regardless of how many.

Well that's a fair point, but you have to be practical about it. I think Phil is a bit of a Greenham geek though and I think just expects a bit more than is realistic.

Posted by: Phil_D11102 May 15 2019, 11:14 PM

QUOTE (newres @ May 15 2019, 04:03 PM) *
Well that's a fair point, but you have to be practical about it. I think Phil is a bit of a Greenham geek though and I think just expects a bit more than is realistic.


No, I am not a Greenham "geek". I am ex USAF who like many would like to see a couple of plaques up at the control tower dedicated to those who jumped out into the night sky, and one that recognizes the history of the base.

It could simply say "For those who served - 1942 to 1992" And it should have the Union Jack and the Stars and Stripes on it.

Would that really be too much? Is that really unrealistic.

Problem is the tower, Greenham Trust, nor do the various councils give a hoot because it's all about the peace women.


Posted by: newres May 16 2019, 05:26 AM

QUOTE (Phil_D11102 @ May 16 2019, 12:14 AM) *
No, I am not a Greenham "geek". I am ex USAF who like many would like to see a couple of plaques up at the control tower dedicated to those who jumped out into the night sky, and one that recognizes the history of the base.

It could simply say "For those who served - 1942 to 1992" And it should have the Union Jack and the Stars and Stripes on it.

Would that really be too much? Is that really unrealistic.

Problem is the tower, Greenham Trust, nor do the various councils give a hoot because it's all about the peace women.

I see no need to celebrate cruise missiles being here. We have a permanent reminder in the silos.

There are assembly points all over the UK Iím sure that wonít have commemorative ceremonies of D Day. The correct place for them is Normandy.

Posted by: Turin Machine May 16 2019, 06:04 AM

QUOTE (newres @ May 16 2019, 06:26 AM) *
I see no need to celebrate cruise missiles being here. We have a permanent reminder in the silos.

There are assembly points all over the UK Iím sure that wonít have commemorative ceremonies of D Day. The correct place for them is Normandy.

But that's not what he said, we have lots of reminders of the missiles, we have a permanent reminder of the witch camp. What we don't have is a permanent reminder of is the jump off point for the various missions which preceeded D day, without which the liberation of Europe may not have happened. As such a committed Europhile I'm surprised you don't understand. Maybe you're just a bit thick though.

Posted by: Strafin May 16 2019, 07:27 AM

Lot's of things happened in the war. Should we have a commemoration of the end of the D day landings? We already have VE day of course. And the end of the war day. Like you said it was 75 years ago, we don't do with all the other wars and why should we commemorate war anyway?

I would take your point if the protests were being commemorated instead, but they're not.

Posted by: Andy1 May 16 2019, 09:24 AM

QUOTE (Phil_D11102 @ May 16 2019, 12:14 AM) *
No, I am not a Greenham "geek". I am ex USAF who like many would like to see a couple of plaques up at the control tower dedicated to those who jumped out into the night sky, and one that recognizes the history of the base.

It could simply say "For those who served - 1942 to 1992" And it should have the Union Jack and the Stars and Stripes on it.

Would that really be too much? Is that really unrealistic.

Problem is the tower, Greenham Trust, nor do the various councils give a hoot because it's all about the peace women.


Totally agree. I, as well as many other families in Newbury, have married or born into extended families across the pond. Even if it just said, thank you for your service.

Posted by: Phil_D11102 May 16 2019, 10:11 AM

QUOTE
I see no need to celebrate cruise missiles being here. We have a permanent reminder in the silos.


They are called shelters. I see you don't know your a** from a hole in the ground. :-)


QUOTE
Like you said it was 75 years ago, we don't do with all the other wars and why should we commemorate war anyway?


Your not commemorating war, your remembering the sacrifices others gave for you.


QUOTE
I would take your point if the protests were being commemorated instead, but they're not.


https://greenhamcommonpeacegarden.org.uk/

As you can see there is even a plaque for a young lady killed in a traffic accident outside the base. David Voran was killed in a hit and run car accident off base, where is his plaque?

Hundreds more died before their feet hit the ground in France, so their last terra firma was RAF Greenham Common. Where is their plaque?

It's amazing that Greenham is remembered more for the peace women than anything else. But then they do make better press that people doing their jobs defending liberties that people take for granted.




Posted by: Strafin May 16 2019, 10:57 AM

We have remembrance day to allow people to reflect on those who gave up their lives for us and that in my opinion is sufficient. It's nice to recognise significant anniversaries I guess, and we are just differently to how you would like, I think you need to accept that and move on.

Posted by: newres May 16 2019, 01:39 PM

QUOTE (Phil_D11102 @ May 16 2019, 11:11 AM) *
They are called shelters. I see you don't know your a** from a hole in the ground. :-)




Your not commemorating war, your remembering the sacrifices others gave for you.




https://greenhamcommonpeacegarden.org.uk/

As you can see there is even a plaque for a young lady killed in a traffic accident outside the base. David Voran was killed in a hit and run car accident off base, where is his plaque?

Hundreds more died before their feet hit the ground in France, so their last terra firma was RAF Greenham Common. Where is their plaque?

It's amazing that Greenham is remembered more for the peace women than anything else. But then they do make better press that people doing their jobs defending liberties that people take for granted.

I've tried to be polite even though I think you're being a tw@t, but to put it plainly there could potentially be thousands of places in the UK where troops departed to significant places in wars, but just because you happened to work there makes it special to no one but you. So stop feeling you're so entitled or that everyone wanted cruise missiles here. Greenham is more famous for the peace camps than anything else. Get over it!

Posted by: Andy1 May 16 2019, 01:44 PM

QUOTE (newres @ May 16 2019, 02:39 PM) *
I've tried to be polite even though I think you're being a tw@t, but to put it plainly there could potentially be thousands of places in the UK where troops departed to significant places in wars, but just because you happened to work there makes it special to no one but you. So stop feeling you're so entitled or that everyone wanted cruise missiles here. Greenham is more famous for the peace camps than anything else. Get over it!


My god man, you really are an idiot!

Posted by: Phil_D11102 May 17 2019, 09:58 AM

QUOTE
I've tried to be polite even though I think you're being a tw@t, but to put it plainly there could potentially be thousands of places in the UK where troops departed to significant places in wars, but just because you happened to work there makes it special to no one but you. So stop feeling you're so entitled or that everyone wanted cruise missiles here. Greenham is more famous for the peace camps than anything else. Get over it!


Good Lord, you are a serious fool. One of the most iconic photos from WWII was taken up at Greenham, of a future President talking to men willing to sacrifice their lives for you and your family.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyYYV8l5Y-Y

I hope that your grandparents aren't able to see your comments, as they would probably whoop your *** for being so disrespectful to people who came over to the UK to help liberate Europe.

Greenham isn't remembered for peace camps, it's remembered for people willing to die to protect your sorry a** and the freedoms you have today.

As I have always said, the publicity given to those outside the fence, but the history was made by us inside the fence.

Do I feel entitled, **** no. Do I feel special, **** no. But one thing is for sure is I stepped up and said the loss of freedom isn't happening on my watch. And you know what, it didn't. What have you done for others in your sorry existence.

Do I feel cheated that there isn't anything on the base to recognize everyone who fought, and in some cases died? Yes, I do. And the reason behind that isn't publicity, it's about honor. It's about honoring everyone who served on that base, from the MOD, to the RAF, to the USAF, to the Gurkha's, to the MOD police, everyone.

Maybe you don't realize this, but there is more of us who wish to recognize the others with a simple plaque, than to those who thinks its a waste of time and money.


QUOTE
It's nice to recognise significant anniversaries I guess, and we are just differently to how you would like, I think you need to accept that and move on


Sounds like "peace in our times to me.."

Posted by: newres May 17 2019, 10:20 AM

QUOTE (Phil_D11102 @ May 17 2019, 10:58 AM) *
Good Lord, you are a serious fool. One of the most iconic photos from WWII was taken up at Greenham, of a future President talking to men willing to sacrifice their lives for you and your family.

I hope that your grandparents aren't able to see your comments, as they would probably whoop your *** for being so disrespectful to people who came over to the UK to help liberate Europe.

Greenham isn't remembered for peace camps, it's remembered for people willing to die to protect your sorry a** and the freedoms you have today.

As I have always said, the publicity given to those outside the fence, but the history was made by us inside the fence.

Do I feel entitled, **** no. Do I feel special, **** no. But one thing is for sure is I stepped up and said the loss of freedom isn't happening on my watch. And you know what, it didn't. What have you done for others in your sorry existence.

Do I feel cheated that there isn't anything on the base to recognize everyone who fought, and in some cases died? Yes, I do. And the reason behind that isn't publicity, it's about honor. It's about honoring everyone who served on that base, from the MOD, to the RAF, to the USAF, to the Gurkha's, to the MOD police, everyone.

Maybe you don't realize this, but there is more of us who wish to recognize the others with a simple plaque, than to those who thinks its a waste of time and money.




Sounds like "peace in our times to me.."

The speech is the important thing, not the location it was made. Who remembers where Martin Luther King gave his ďdreamĒ speech other than those that live there? Being realistic about how many ďcelebrationsĒ we should have isnít dishonouring the service men of WW2 but the certainly have no desire to celebrate cruise missiles being here.

Iíve no objection to a plaque or a display in the control tower.

Posted by: Phil_D11102 May 17 2019, 10:25 AM

QUOTE
The speech is the important thing, not the location it was made. Who remembers where Martin Luther King gave his ďdreamĒ speech other than those that live there? Being realistic about how many ďcelebrationsĒ we should have isnít dishonouring the service men of WW2 but the certainly have no desire to celebrate cruise missiles being here.



I have a dream, Lincoln Memorial.

I am not looking to celebrate the cruise missiles, even though I think the GAMA and Bldg 274 would make a great cold war museum, but I am looking to honor everyone who served up at RAF Greenham Common from 1942 to 1992.

Not recognizing them is dishonoring them. Push the dirty little secret under the carpet, but keep bending over and kissing that leftie peace women *** is ok..


Posted by: newres May 17 2019, 11:21 AM

QUOTE (Phil_D11102 @ May 17 2019, 11:25 AM) *
I have a dream, Lincoln Memorial.

I am not looking to celebrate the cruise missiles, even though I think the GAMA and Bldg 274 would make a great cold war museum, but I am looking to honor everyone who served up at RAF Greenham Common from 1942 to 1992.

Not recognizing them is dishonoring them. Push the dirty little secret under the carpet, but keep bending over and kissing that leftie peace women *** is ok..

Have you got a MAGA hat or are you just playing at being a stereotype?

Posted by: Phil_D11102 May 17 2019, 11:51 AM

QUOTE (newres @ May 17 2019, 12:21 PM) *
Have you got a MAGA hat or are you just playing at being a stereotype?


If anyone is a racist is you sir. FYI, I didn't vote for either Trump or Clinton, as I think there are better people than that to lead the USA, so I voted libertarian.

But of course if your proud of your country, it's military, and it's history, your a redneck.

I voted for the past 20 years for a Democratic Congresswoman, and I have voted for Republican and Democratic Presidential candidates in the past.

Do I support legal immigration, of course, I am an immigrate to the UK, and my great grandparents come from Russia and Italy. Do I think illegal immigrates/and undocumented economic migrants should be deported, yes. Do I think someone who has moved his family from a war zone to Europe/UK be given asylum, yes.

Do I feel people should get help when they fall on hard times, yes. Do I think that they should receive training so they can be employed, yes. Do I feel if they reject the training that their benefits are cut or they are made to take part in council work such as cleaning the streets, etc Yes.

Do I believe in a universal health system, yes, but I also believe that you can have private insurance if you want to be seen quicker. Do I feel that I should pay more for the NHS to get back on it's feet, yes.

Do I believe that the UK should leave the EU, yes. Why, because the EU is a red tape mess that the ultimate goal is to have one nation under the Euro.

So, I am a mix in my politics, and I would like to see the best of everything.

But, as you see it because I am proud of my country, and the contribution it paid in the liberation of Europe and the fall of the Warsaw Pact/Communism, I must be a racist redneck.

You can think what you like about me, but you have clearly painted yourself as a joke, a fool, and racist leftist muppet.

Ya'all have a nice day, yhear.

Posted by: Strafin May 17 2019, 12:10 PM

He only asked if you had a hat!

Posted by: je suis Charlie May 17 2019, 12:17 PM

QUOTE (Strafin @ May 17 2019, 01:10 PM) *
He only asked if you had a hat!

😂😂😂

Posted by: je suis Charlie May 17 2019, 12:33 PM

But he's right though, you're simply not allowed to be proud of your country any more, not unless you want simpletons sneering at you and calling you racist.

Posted by: Phil_D11102 May 17 2019, 12:49 PM

QUOTE (Strafin @ May 17 2019, 01:10 PM) *
He only asked if you had a hat!



Wearing a MAGA hat is a target for leftist to think you a racist, and to attack you.

FYI, no, I don't have a hat. I don't like the man. I thought I answered that when I said I didn't vote for Trump.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6943471/Woman-46-abused-elderly-man-74-wearing-MAGA-hat-gone-missing-fired.html

https://defensemaven.io/bluelivesmatter/news/video-students-have-freakish-meltdown-after-peer-s-arrest-for-stealing-maga-hat-PqwxQBysK0qbd-zBnqLcEQ/

https://www.foxnews.com/us/man-attacked-wearing-maga-hat

https://www.dailywire.com/news/46173/watch-college-students-asked-if-maga-hats-are-new-paul-bois

Posted by: newres May 17 2019, 01:38 PM

Probably still not enough for you Phil

https://cornexchangenew.com/event/greenham-cold-war-experience-2019

Re: the stereotype - your attitude to the Peace Women is fairly stereotypical. You're not alone on here though.

Posted by: newres May 17 2019, 01:40 PM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 17 2019, 01:33 PM) *
But he's right though, you're simply not allowed to be proud of your country any more, not unless you want simpletons sneering at you and calling you racist.

Although in Phil's case he seems to think we should be proud of his country too!

Posted by: Andy1 May 17 2019, 02:13 PM

QUOTE (Strafin @ May 16 2019, 08:27 AM) *
Lot's of things happened in the war. Should we have a commemoration of the end of the D day landings? We already have VE day of course. And the end of the war day. Like you said it was 75 years ago, we don't do with all the other wars and why should we commemorate war anyway?

I would take your point if the protests were being commemorated instead, but they're not.


It's not like anything is done to remember the Battle of Newbury. Oh wait.

Posted by: newres May 17 2019, 02:28 PM

QUOTE (Andy1 @ May 17 2019, 03:13 PM) *
It's not like anything is done to remember the Battle of Newbury. Oh wait.

There are huge celebrations/remembrances going on in Normandy. Rightly.

Posted by: Andy1 May 17 2019, 02:41 PM

I'm sure the men in these videos along with Eisenhower himself would agree.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uk0CpEo9cM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MR1D1sBlRlo

Posted by: Phil_D11102 May 17 2019, 02:51 PM

QUOTE (newres @ May 17 2019, 03:28 PM) *
There are huge celebrations/remembrances going on in Normandy. Rightly.



https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/06/ad/99/b8/minute-man-national-historical.jpg

This is from Concord Bridge in Massachusetts, acknowledging their loss.

QUOTE
Although in Phil's case he seems to think we should be proud of his country too!


No I don't, but I recognize the contribution of my brother and sisters in uniform, regardless of the flag they defend. That is why I said the Union Jack should be on the plaque.


https://cornexchangenew.com/event/greenham-...experience-2019

Yes, I been on it. It was an embarrassment. The uniforms of the so called Americans were wrong, as was some of the terminology. You think that being the so called experts they could get it right? Oh, I forgot, it's a dramatization.


QUOTE
There are huge celebrations/remembrances going on in Normandy
.

Again, what do you have against a plaque or some sort of remembrance ceremony at the location where Ike talked to the airborne troops the hours before they dropped into France. Greenham was a significant site, because for many of those BURIED in Normandy this was the last place they were ALIVE!!!






Posted by: Phil_D11102 May 17 2019, 03:14 PM

QUOTE (Andy1 @ May 17 2019, 03:13 PM) *
It's not like anything is done to remember the Battle of Newbury. Oh wait.


The Sealed Knot used to do a "Battle of Newbury" . I remember my USAF squadron doing something there, and it was a great day out.



Posted by: Mr Brown May 17 2019, 03:45 PM

QUOTE (Phil_D11102 @ May 17 2019, 03:51 PM) *
https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/06/ad/99/b8/minute-man-national-historical.jpg

This is from Concord Bridge in Massachusetts, acknowledging their loss.



No I don't, but I recognize the contribution of my brother and sisters in uniform, regardless of the flag they defend. That is why I said the Union Jack should be on the plaque.


https://cornexchangenew.com/event/greenham-...experience-2019

Yes, I been on it. It was an embarrassment. The uniforms of the so called Americans were wrong, as was some of the terminology. You think that being the so called experts they could get it right? Oh, I forgot, it's a dramatization.


.

Again, what do you have against a plaque or some sort of remembrance ceremony at the location where Ike talked to the airborne troops the hours before they dropped into France. Greenham was a significant site, because for many of those BURIED in Normandy this was the last place they were ALIVE!!!


You are clearly quite passionate about this. Have you formally approached the Control Tower Management Committee or Greenham Parish Council? They had quite a struggle to save the place, so funding of even a modest plaque could be an issue, so your request would be much more positively received if you offered to help set up crowd funding or such like.

Posted by: Phil_D11102 May 17 2019, 05:44 PM

QUOTE (Mr Brown @ May 17 2019, 04:45 PM) *
You are clearly quite passionate about this. Have you formally approached the Control Tower Management Committee or Greenham Parish Council? They had quite a struggle to save the place, so funding of even a modest plaque could be an issue, so your request would be much more positively received if you offered to help set up crowd funding or such like.



Yes Mr Brown. I have spoken to the RBL, the Greenham Trust, the people at the Control Tower, the WBC and NTC, and most recently someone who was on the inside of a couple of these organizations.

Posted by: newres May 17 2019, 06:46 PM

QUOTE (Phil_D11102 @ May 17 2019, 03:51 PM) *
https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/06/ad/99/b8/minute-man-national-historical.jpg

This is from Concord Bridge in Massachusetts, acknowledging their loss.



No I don't, but I recognize the contribution of my brother and sisters in uniform, regardless of the flag they defend. That is why I said the Union Jack should be on the plaque.


https://cornexchangenew.com/event/greenham-...experience-2019

Yes, I been on it. It was an embarrassment. The uniforms of the so called Americans were wrong, as was some of the terminology. You think that being the so called experts they could get it right? Oh, I forgot, it's a dramatization.


.

Again, what do you have against a plaque or some sort of remembrance ceremony at the location where Ike talked to the airborne troops the hours before they dropped into France. Greenham was a significant site, because for many of those BURIED in Normandy this was the last place they were ALIVE!!!

No objection at all. Thatís not what youíre ranting about though.

Posted by: Phil_D11102 May 18 2019, 10:02 AM

QUOTE (newres @ May 17 2019, 07:46 PM) *
No objection at all. Thatís not what youíre ranting about though.


What am I ranting about? I am angry that their is no commemorative ceremony at Greenham for the 75th anniversary of D-Day.

I am angry that their is no plaque for this, I am angry that there is no acknowledgement for the sacrifices of the British and Americans from 1942 to 1992.

I am angry that everyone in power are bending over to the loony left and don't acknowledge what I say above.

I called all this out 2 years ago for the 25th anniversary of the Americans leaving GC, with was also the 20th anniversary of the Greenham Trust. There were events, but they were spun for the loony left.

How do I know, because I attended some of them. A dramatization of what life was like in Newbury back in 1942 is not paying homage or respect to those who jumped out, a permanent reminder of what they did is paying respect.


Posted by: Andy1 May 18 2019, 10:05 AM

QUOTE (newres @ May 17 2019, 07:46 PM) *
No objection at all. Thatís not what youíre ranting about though.

Pot, kettle. That is all you ever do on this forum as well as disrespect and belittle.

Posted by: newres May 18 2019, 02:14 PM

QUOTE (Phil_D11102 @ May 18 2019, 11:02 AM) *
What am I ranting about? I am angry that their is no commemorative ceremony at Greenham for the 75th anniversary of D-Day.

I am angry that their is no plaque for this, I am angry that there is no acknowledgement for the sacrifices of the British and Americans from 1942 to 1992.

I am angry that everyone in power are bending over to the loony left and don't acknowledge what I say above.

I called all this out 2 years ago for the 25th anniversary of the Americans leaving GC, with was also the 20th anniversary of the Greenham Trust. There were events, but they were spun for the loony left.

How do I know, because I attended some of them. A dramatization of what life was like in Newbury back in 1942 is not paying homage or respect to those who jumped out, a permanent reminder of what they did is paying respect.

You think there should have been events to mark 25 years since the Americans left? rolleyes.gif

Posted by: Phil_D11102 May 18 2019, 02:46 PM

QUOTE (newres @ May 18 2019, 03:14 PM) *
You think there should have been events to mark 25 years since the Americans left? rolleyes.gif


You really have issues.

Again, I am not looking for a plaque highlighting when the USAF left, I am looking for a plaque to recognize the years of service the base played.

Again:

For those who served

1942 to 1992

Union Jack and Stars and Stripes.

Simple, to the point, elegant..


Posted by: Mr Brown May 18 2019, 04:04 PM

QUOTE (Phil_D11102 @ May 18 2019, 03:46 PM) *
You really have issues.

Again, I am not looking for a plaque highlighting when the USAF left, I am looking for a plaque to recognize the years of service the base played.

Again:

For those who served

1942 to 1992

Union Jack and Stars and Stripes.

Simple, to the point, elegant..


Really can't see any issue at all with that. Given the cost of the Control Tower project, a simple plaque isn't even going to feature as a separate expence.

I must admit, thinking about it, the area makes very little of its history as an American base, let alone it's part in the Second World War and the subsequent Cold War. What's left of what was apparently the biggest supply depot in Europe which stretched between Newbury and Thatcham, the massive upgrade of the DNS railway, Camps at Snelsmore, the bombing raid etc. Let alone Glenn Miller at the Corn Exchange. Could be a tourist attraction for both sides of the pond!

Posted by: je suis Charlie May 18 2019, 04:46 PM

A simple "From this place the first steps were launched to defeat an overwhelming evil in Europe. In remembrance of all those who served" on a background of crossed union jack and stars and stripes shouldn't be too difficult. I mean, statue to jack o Newbury anyone?

Posted by: je suis Charlie May 18 2019, 05:28 PM

Alternatively, just tell them that some of the servicemen were black n gay. You'll have a twelve foot memorial by sundown.

Posted by: newres May 18 2019, 06:18 PM

QUOTE (Phil_D11102 @ May 18 2019, 03:46 PM) *
You really have issues.

I was reacting to this:


ďI called all this out 2 years ago for the 25th anniversary of the Americans leaving GC, with was also the 20th anniversary of the Greenham Trust. There were events, but they were spun for the loony left.Ē

You are saying we should be commemorating the US forces leaving. Next youíll want us commemorating the smelliest fart recorded in building 24.

Posted by: je suis Charlie May 18 2019, 06:38 PM

QUOTE (Mr Brown @ May 18 2019, 05:04 PM) *
Really can't see any issue at all with that. Given the cost of the Control Tower project, a simple plaque isn't even going to feature as a separate expence.

I must admit, thinking about it, the area makes very little of its history as an American base, let alone it's part in the Second World War and the subsequent Cold War. What's left of what was apparently the biggest supply depot in Europe which stretched between Newbury and Thatcham, the massive upgrade of the DNS railway, Camps at Snelsmore, the bombing raid etc. Let alone Glenn Miller at the Corn Exchange. Could be a tourist attraction for both sides of the pond!

What would a plaque cost? I would be willing to front some of this.

Posted by: Strafin May 19 2019, 06:19 AM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 18 2019, 07:38 PM) *
What would a plaque cost? I would be willing to front some of this.

There you go, theres your first donation, perhaps set up an official crowd fund and get a proper campaign in motion. If people agree with you it wont be long before you're installing a commemorative plaque, although it wont be on the right anniversary.

Posted by: Phil_D11102 May 19 2019, 09:16 AM

QUOTE (newres @ May 18 2019, 07:18 PM) *
I was reacting to this:


ďI called all this out 2 years ago for the 25th anniversary of the Americans leaving GC, with was also the 20th anniversary of the Greenham Trust. There were events, but they were spun for the loony left.Ē

You are saying we should be commemorating the US forces leaving. Next youíll want us commemorating the smelliest fart recorded in building 24.



You really are pretty stupid, aren't you..

I wasn't asking for a plaque because the American's left, I was asking for a plaque for the years the base was in operation.

As for the smelliest fart, we can smell your breath due to all the vile sh*t you spout.

Posted by: Mr Brown May 19 2019, 11:46 AM

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 18 2019, 07:38 PM) *
What would a plaque cost? I would be willing to front some of this.


Quickest and easiest, a simple photo engraved granite, not too big, but would certainly hold all necessary detail. Timpsons could do it as a standard job, around £200. Then someone would need to fit, but even four screws on an internal wall isn't going to tax anyone.

Posted by: Mr Brown May 19 2019, 11:50 AM

QUOTE (Strafin @ May 19 2019, 07:19 AM) *
There you go, theres your first donation, perhaps set up an official crowd fund and get a proper campaign in motion. If people agree with you it wont be long before you're installing a commemorative plaque, although it wont be on the right anniversary.


Yes, all quite feasible. A dedication on an appropriate day wouldn't be too difficult either. Sort of thing the great and good like to attend and so media attention built in. Frankly, rather more meaningful than some of the recent town council faux blue plaques.

Posted by: newres May 19 2019, 01:35 PM

QUOTE (Phil_D11102 @ May 19 2019, 10:16 AM) *
You really are pretty stupid, aren't you..

I wasn't asking for a plaque because the American's left, I was asking for a plaque for the years the base was in operation.

As for the smelliest fart, we can smell your breath due to all the vile sh*t you spout.

I think you should just accept that most people are glad the Cruise missiles and US servicemen are gone and we have our common back. Get over it.

Posted by: Turin Machine May 19 2019, 02:28 PM

QUOTE (Strafin @ May 19 2019, 07:19 AM) *
There you go, theres your first donation, perhaps set up an official crowd fund and get a proper campaign in motion. If people agree with you it wont be long before you're installing a commemorative plaque, although it wont be on the right anniversary.

I would chip in as well.

Posted by: Phil_D11102 May 20 2019, 06:43 AM

QUOTE (newres @ May 19 2019, 02:35 PM) *
I think you should just accept that most people are glad the Cruise missiles and US servicemen are gone and we have our common back. Get over it.


A couple of home truths numpty.

1 - The commoners all but 3 gave up their right to the common, of which their ancient right was to graze cattle, and to collect gravel and firewood.

2 - The cruise is gone because it did it's job, as well as my brothers and sisters in uniform.

3 - The impact on the local economy is significant. For example, BT billed the U.S.A.F. one million pounds every 6 months. The cost of RAF Mildenhall closing is an estimated 230.73m economic impact on the local area. Where some of the people from Mildenhall going? RAF Fairford, which uses their runway for deployments and the Air Tattoo. The original mission of RAF Greenham Common was to host KC135 tanker aircraft, to which the NTC didn't want, so they got cruise instead. Has Newbury and it's economy been the same since 1991?

4 - I bet the locals are happier to see the peace women gone, along with their BS.

5 - Most of the locals I meet always like to reminisce about great times they had with their American friends, up on the base at the club, or at the bowling alley.

Try to take off the liberal glasses and see the world for what it is.

Posted by: newres May 20 2019, 07:41 AM

QUOTE (Phil_D11102 @ May 20 2019, 07:43 AM) *
A couple of home truths numpty.

1 - The commoners all but 3 gave up their right to the common, of which their ancient right was to graze cattle, and to collect gravel and firewood.

2 - The cruise is gone because it did it's job, as well as my brothers and sisters in uniform.

3 - The impact on the local economy is significant. For example, BT billed the U.S.A.F. one million pounds every 6 months. The cost of RAF Mildenhall closing is an estimated 230.73m economic impact on the local area. Where some of the people from Mildenhall going? RAF Fairford, which uses their runway for deployments and the Air Tattoo. The original mission of RAF Greenham Common was to host KC135 tanker aircraft, to which the NTC didn't want, so they got cruise instead. Has Newbury and it's economy been the same since 1991?

4 - I bet the locals are happier to see the peace women gone, along with their BS.

5 - Most of the locals I meet always like to reminisce about great times they had with their American friends, up on the base at the club, or at the bowling alley.

Try to take off the liberal glasses and see the world for what it is.

If people loved you so much how come there's none of the fawny behaviour you seem to expect? Deluded.

Posted by: Phil_D11102 May 20 2019, 08:22 AM

QUOTE (newres @ May 20 2019, 08:41 AM) *
If people loved you so much how come there's none of the fawny behaviour you seem to expect? Deluded.


It's because people don't know that there isn't any acknowledgement of the Airborne troops or the years the base was opened.

And that is because of the media spin..

Posted by: Strafin May 20 2019, 09:14 AM

No it's because people who aren't in the forces don't care about the forces.


Posted by: Phil_D11102 May 20 2019, 11:17 AM

QUOTE (Strafin @ May 20 2019, 10:14 AM) *
No it's because people who aren't in the forces don't care about the forces.


I think you will find that the "people" give quite generously to forces charities.

What people don't know is exactly what I am talking about.

Did anyone really know that these monuments were on the base?


https://www.newburytoday.co.uk/news/news/26112/us-memorials-move-taken-a-step-further.html


Again, it's about the spin, not about not caring..

Posted by: Mr Brown May 20 2019, 12:50 PM

QUOTE (Phil_D11102 @ May 20 2019, 12:17 PM) *
I think you will find that the "people" give quite generously to forces charities.

What people don't know is exactly what I am talking about.

Did anyone really know that these monuments were on the base?


https://www.newburytoday.co.uk/news/news/26112/us-memorials-move-taken-a-step-further.html


Again, it's about the spin, not about not caring..


Yes, I know several.

I must admit I don't think moving this monument is the right thing to do though. A bit like suggesting moving the town's war memorial to a more convenient place. The memorial commemorates, but over time tells another story. As the site will remain in civilian use, it would be right and proper to keep the memorial in place, amongst us, so to speak. The Control Tower is not a memorial, at best it's a museum telling a story. It needs to tell the whole story, but it's a story none the less. And no one is suggesting that the 'Peace Garden' should be removed from the gate and re sited at the Control Tower.

Posted by: Phil_D11102 Jun 7 2019, 09:31 AM

QUOTE (Mr Brown @ May 20 2019, 01:50 PM) *
Yes, I know several.

I must admit I don't think moving this monument is the right thing to do though. A bit like suggesting moving the town's war memorial to a more convenient place. The memorial commemorates, but over time tells another story. As the site will remain in civilian use, it would be right and proper to keep the memorial in place, amongst us, so to speak. The Control Tower is not a memorial, at best it's a museum telling a story. It needs to tell the whole story, but it's a story none the less. And no one is suggesting that the 'Peace Garden' should be removed from the gate and re sited at the Control Tower.



Went to RAF Welford on Tuesday the 4th of June for the dedication of a plaque. It's amazing that little ole Welford can do this, but nothing at Greenham.

I have friend who attended the D-DAY 75 show at GC. Apparently they had American's in British uniforms, and they kept referring to the "USAF" which wasn't formed until 26th of July 1947, 3 years after D-Day.


Posted by: dannyboy Jun 7 2019, 01:13 PM

and they kept referring to the "USAF" which wasn't formed until 26th of July 1947, 3 years after D-Day.


Reminds me of Raiders of the Lost Ark which is set in 1936. The German soldiers are dressed as Afrika Korps - which didn't exist until 1941. Totally ruined the film.

Posted by: Andy1 Jun 8 2019, 12:50 PM

The Memorial Stones at the entrance to the Greenham Common Business Park are being moved to the Control Tower.

Posted by: regor Aug 5 2019, 02:43 PM

I was very suprised the other day when I was reading an advertisment for commerative D Day specially minted coins.
Right at the bottom, in the smallest of print, it was revealed that the company behind the promotion was German.

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