More Dross in The Newbury Weekly News, Stuff Printed in this paper is often not news... Options

[Simon Kirby]

Their there....👍

Your rite.

[Biker1]

I suspect the definition of words like break and brake will merge, or verbs like brake will die out.

That's rubbish Andy.
The two words mean completely different things. How can you "merge" them?
Bring back grammar schools quickly!!

[Simon Kirby]

That is true but I find myself wondering does it matter?

That's a very difficult question. What I would say is that for me if you get your spelling and grammar "wrong" then you come over as ignorant and uneducated - that's a bit of a problem for me as my spelling isn't particularly good and I not infrequently get your/you're and its/it's wrong - I know the difference very well, but I seem to make the mistake quite regularly.

It's hardly an issue on a forum and I think it's generally the height of bad manners to pick someone up on their grammar and spelling (unless I'm choosing to be bad mannered, and then it's fine), but in any situation where what you're communicating is important, then yes, for me it matters.

[Biker1]

I read this and can easily come up with examples - of words gaining new meanings and of spelling altering - but I can't think of an example where two homonyns have merged in spelling and meaning.

I think the two words we are talking about here are actually homophones?
Homonyms are spelt the same?

[Biker1]

That is true but I find myself wondering does it matter?

Stop wondering Andy.
Yes it does!

[Andy Capp]

Stop wondering Andy.
Yes it does!

Why? Did you know I spelled the word wrong when I spoke?

[Andy Capp]

That's rubbish Andy.
The two words mean completely different things. How can you "merge" them?
Bring back grammar schools quickly!!

You cannot legitimately state it is rubbish when it is something I suspect might happen.
Our vocabulary is littered with misspelled, or misheard words which are now established as correct. Besides, both words are linked; it seems someone has beaten me to it:


Brake

(archaic) simple past tense of break
Exodus 32:3, KJV:
And all the people brake off the golden earrings […]

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/brake



Main definitions of break in English: break1. break2

break2
NOUN

1
former term for breaking cart

2 historical
another term for brake

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/break

[Andy Capp]

That's a very difficult question. What I would say is that for me if you get your spelling and grammar "wrong" then you come over as ignorant and uneducated - that's a bit of a problem for me as my spelling isn't particularly good and I not infrequently get your/you're and its/it's wrong - I know the difference very well, but I seem to make the mistake quite regularly.

Therefore the reason you make the mistake is because you're careless, not because you are a bit thick.

[blackdog]

I think the two words we are talking about here are actually homophones?
Homonyms are spelt the same?

Fair cop guv!

[Biker1]

You cannot legitimately state it is rubbish when it is something I suspect might happen.
Our vocabulary is littered with misspelled, or misheard words which are now established as correct. Besides, both words are linked; it seems someone has beaten me to it:


Brake

(archaic) simple past tense of break
Exodus 32:3, KJV:
And all the people brake off the golden earrings […]

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/brake



Main definitions of break in English: break1. break2

break2
NOUN

1
former term for breaking cart

2 historical
another term for brake

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/break

I stand corrected Andy.
I seems my English teachers were all wrong at school.
I wish some of them were still alive so I could correct them in the error of their ways.
In essense you are obviously write, the spelling of words in ritten English is irrelivant.
Try it on a CV!!

Now, I regard white to be white and black to be black.
What do you think?

[Simon Kirby]

... I am of the opinion ...

Someone said that yesterday on Radio4 and I went on for five minutes about how pretentious it was to say that rather than "I think". I know you were using it ironically but it's an example of how we judge the reliability of others on a whole raft of social clues, and how those clues are almost certainly personal to the life-experience of the receiver. For you and me word choice is important, and I can accept that it might not be so for others.

[Biker1]

Someone said that yesterday on Radio4 and I went on for five minutes about how pretentious it was to say that rather than "I think". I know you were using it ironically but it's an example of how we judge the reliability of others on a whole raft of social clues, and how those clues are almost certainly personal to the life-experience of the receiver. For you and me word choice is important, and I can accept that it might not be so for others.

You are right Simon, it does sound somewhat pretentious and on reflection realise that it is not a term I would use in oral communication.
Corrected now, see above.
What do you think of the revised version?

[Andy Capp]

I stand corrected Andy.
I seems my English teachers were all wrong at school.
I wish some of them were still alive so I could correct them in the error of their ways.
In essense you are obviously write, the spelling of words in ritten English is irrelivant.
Try it on a CV!!

Pedants often find it hard to concede a point without being sarcastic!

The issue I have is language is about being understood. As far as I know I spelled my query correctly, yet you have failed to comprehend me. You have delibertly misspelled yours and I believe I have understood you.

Of course context is important. A dictionary littered with spelling mistakes is of limited value, but one doesn't have to spell well to be understood. A CV written with spelling errors by a non-English writer might not be so important for a painter/decorator's apprentice job application, but it will be a problem for an application for a English language tutor.

Now, I am of the opinion that white is white and black is black.
What do you think?

You may be better confirming your view with a painter decorator!

[Biker1]

Pedants often find it hard to concede a point without being sarcastic!

The issue I have is language is about being understood. As far as I know I spelled my query correctly, yet you have failed to comprehend me. You have delibertly misspelled yours and I believe I have understood you.

Of course context is important. A dictionary littered with spelling mistakes is of limited value, but one doesn't have to spell well to be understood. A CV written with spelling errors by a non-English writer might not be so important for a painter/decorator's apprentice job application, but it will be a problem for an application for a English language tutor.



You may be better confirming your view with a painter decorator!

Doh!

All those hours wasted staying behind after school writing out words until I spelled them correctly.

"Write down necessary 100 times lad. You won't get it wrong again!"

[Andy Capp]

Doh!

All those hours wasted staying behind after school writing out words until I spelled them correctly.

"Write down necessary 100 times lad. You won't get it wrong again!"

I must have written embarrassed a thousand times and still need a spell check! My spelling is hopeless, almost to a point of dyslexia, but like with mental arythmatic: you have it or you don't, but what we are talking about here - in the main - is carelessness more than knowing how to spell words.

[Simon Kirby]

You are right Simon, it does sound somewhat pretentious and on reflection realise that it is not a term I would use in oral communication.
Corrected now, see above.
What do you think of the revised version?

Honestly, it wasn't a criticism, the phrase read right in the voice you were using.

[Simon Kirby]

The issue I have is language is about being understood.

What you're missing is that communication is frequently about influence, and the degree to which you're influenced by a piece of information depends hugely on the presentation of that information and all of those social clues like spelling that help your subconscious assess the reliability of the message.

[Simon Kirby]

Doh!

All those hours wasted staying behind after school writing out words until I spelled them correctly.

"Write down necessary 100 times lad. You won't get it wrong again!"

My comprehensive education sent me out into the world confident of spelling just two words; Mississippi and pharaoh - and that was thanks to an exasperated history teacher.

[newres]

My comprehensive education sent me out into the world confident of spelling just two words; Mississippi and pharaoh - and that was thanks to an exhasperated history teacher.

Do you mean exasperated?

[Simon Kirby]

Do you mean exasperated?

Indeed.