Young Voters Question Time Options

[Iommi]

Watching the program I was minded of the words of Churchill: If you're not a liberal at twenty you have no heart, if you're not a conservative at forty you have no brain.

[Jayjay]

Watching the program I was minded of the words of Churchill: If you're not a liberal at twenty you have no heart, if you're not a conservative at forty you have no brain.

Well I act 20, feel 30 and look 40. Is there a muddled party I can join?

[Berkshirelad]

Well I act 20, feel 30 and look 40. Is there a muddled party I can join?

LibDem, I guess

[Simon Kirby]

I had a watch and I though the quality of debate was quite high. The chair was a bit manic but for all that he was effective too.

I feel for the students.

For one thing I don't suppose the reality of a £30k debt on graduation has truely come home to them. I can imagine that they'd be indignant at the fees, but the personal reality of paying an extra 10% tax isn't going to bite immediately and when it does I think they're going to feel rightly gipped.

It's also in the nature of things that their plight is decided by politicians and supported by a generation of voters who had free university education and, with the alienation of age, have lost the empathy that would otherwise temper a decision affecting their own demographic.

I think it would be great if industry was to sponsor more university placement through bursaries, but I also feel that university education should be free because society as a whole benefits from education (if we have the industry to employ graduates).

Obviously, that's going to cost, but I also think that aspiring to send 50% of the population to university is stupid, as is the dogma of social mobility. I don't see anything wrong with the smartest 5% going on to state-funded university (and the social elite going to Oxbridge), and everyone else going out to work and taking HNCs and City & Guilds if the job needs it.

[Jayjay]

I had a watch and I though the quality of debate was quite high. The chair was a bit manic but for all that he was effective too.

I feel for the students.

For one thing I don't suppose the reality of a £30k debt on graduation has truely come home to them. I can imagine that they'd be indignant at the fees, but the personal reality of paying an extra 10% tax isn't going to bite immediately and when it does I think they're going to feel rightly gipped.

It's also in the nature of things that their plight is decided by politicians and supported by a generation of voters who had free university education and, with the alienation of age, have lost the empathy that would otherwise temper a decision affecting their own demographic.

I think it would be great if industry was to sponsor more university placement through bursaries, but I also feel that university education should be free because society as a whole benefits from education (if we have the industry to employ graduates).

Obviously, that's going to cost, but I also think that aspiring to send 50% of the population to university is stupid, as is the dogma of social mobility. I don't see anything wrong with the smartest 5% going on to state-funded university (and the social elite going to Oxbridge), and everyone else going out to work and taking HNCs and City & Guilds if the job needs it.

I agree that a 50% benchmark for univerity uptake is pointless. There are some professions, such as the sciences and doctors where it is a necessity but for many professions learning on the job is far more productive.

[On the edge]

Trouble is - we've confused the difference between a technical college and a university. If we really want a thriving economy then today we do need 50% (indeed more) of our off spring going into further education - of all types. Today's hi tech world means 'sitting next to Nellie' shouldn't work anymore.

[TallDarkAndHands...]

Trouble is - we've confused the difference between a technical college and a university. If we really want a thriving economy then today we do need 50% (indeed more) of our off spring going into further education - of all types. Today's hi tech world means 'sitting next to Nellie' shouldn't work anymore.

I disagree. I would say about 1 in 4 students is academically gifted enough to merit further education at University. University should be for gifted students. It should not be a 'right of passage'. Under Labour too many pseudo universities were set up offering degrees in subjects such as media studies. More apprenticeships should be given out as on the job training would be far more useful to youngsters than 8 hours a week at Lectures and 20 hours a week drinking.

[Rosewinelover]

How many of the sudents protesting actually go on to a qualified job after completeing their course anyway? I find most people I know who went to Uni have ended up doing something completley different, and just used Uni as a pi** up.

[On the edge]

I disagree. I would say about 1 in 4 students is academically gifted enough to merit further education at University. University should be for gifted students. It should not be a 'right of passage'. Under Labour too many pseudo universities were set up offering degrees in subjects such as media studies. More apprenticeships should be given out as on the job training would be far more useful to youngsters than 8 hours a week at Lectures and 20 hours a week drinking.

That's the trouble with the foggy English definitions of further education establishments. I certainly don't want the old fashioned notions which were rights of passage. i.e a few rich (and often non too bright) public school boys drift through Oxbridge. What I would like to see is a properly and well trained workforce fit for the high tech. future. Look at Germany - or even more fightening China or India. Do we really want a nation of unskilled grunt workers?

Yes, the whole education system needs sorting - apprenticeships do have a place but even these need to be supported by further high standard advanced education. Is communications really such a rubbish subject, that's media studies. Agree we as a nation are pretty poor at it - hence our national misunderstanding of the importance of further education.

[Bloggo]

That's the trouble with the foggy English definitions of further education establishments. I certainly don't want the old fashioned notions which were rights of passage. i.e a few rich (and often non too bright) public school boys drift through Oxbridge. What I would like to see is a properly and well trained workforce fit for the high tech. future. Look at Germany - or even more fightening China or India. Do we really want a nation of unskilled grunt workers?

Yes, the whole education system needs sorting - apprenticeships do have a place but even these need to be supported by further high standard advanced education. Is communications really such a rubbish subject, that's media studies. Agree we as a nation are pretty poor at it - hence our national misunderstanding of the importance of further education.

To qualify in my engineering apprenticeship it was a requirement that one attended technical college on a day release and evenings in order to pass certain examinations. Further education was very much an important part of it.
The "country" needs to identify clearly what skills it needs to progress and having done that it should reduce the fees as an incentive to encourage students to take up these technical and more demanding courses.
The emphasis should be on the courses that will add to the countries financial good.

[Ron]

To qualify in my engineering apprenticeship it was a requirement that one attended technical college on a day release and evenings in order to pass certain examinations. Further education was very much an important part of it.
The "country" needs to identify clearly what skills it needs to progress and having done that it should reduce the fees as an incentive to encourage students to take up these technical and more demanding courses.
The emphasis should be on the courses that will add to the countries financial good.

You giving your age away Bloggo?

[Simon Kirby]

That's the trouble with the foggy English definitions of further education establishments. I certainly don't want the old fashioned notions which were rights of passage. i.e a few rich (and often non too bright) public school boys drift through Oxbridge. What I would like to see is a properly and well trained workforce fit for the high tech. future. Look at Germany - or even more fightening China or India. Do we really want a nation of unskilled grunt workers?

Yes, the whole education system needs sorting - apprenticeships do have a place but even these need to be supported by further high standard advanced education. Is communications really such a rubbish subject, that's media studies. Agree we as a nation are pretty poor at it - hence our national misunderstanding of the importance of further education.

Yes, I pretty much agree with all of that, my only quibble would be that in my experience Oxbridge graduates do tend to be bright. But yes, absolutely, the country needs graduates in the arts and humanities as much as in the sciences - I want to live in a civilised country, not a tractor factory. There's definitely a role for the traditional universities, but branding all of the other higher education colleges and polytechnics as universities was a mistake that we're paying for.

[Bloggo]

You giving your age away Bloggo?

Yes, I guess so. I'm one of those "old farts"

[On the edge]

To qualify in my engineering apprenticeship it was a requirement that one attended technical college on a day release and evenings in order to pass certain examinations. Further education was very much an important part of it.
The "country" needs to identify clearly what skills it needs to progress and having done that it should reduce the fees as an incentive to encourage students to take up these technical and more demanding courses.
The emphasis should be on the courses that will add to the countries financial good.

I think it probably has. The odd ball courses are simply the media playing up the daftisims you'll find in any big endevour. The trouble is we just repeat them without much thought. I can recall someone on the Radio wittering on about a course in 'Golf Course Design and Management'. Out of interest I looked it up - apparently we are world leaders at doing this; and so those who earn that foreign currency need to be trained.

Apprenticeships cover a wide spectrum of activity. At the hifgher end of the scale, they included block and sandwich release schemes. Most mechnical and electrical engineers were trained that way - ending their time with am apprenticship deed and a BSc.