The carrrying of a pen knife, Or is my old friend now persona non grata Options

[lordtup]

:blink:Poundland keyring leads to criminal record

I must admit I that I thought the prohibition of carrying a pen knife only applied to the hooded teenage brigade .

Apparently not as this report highlights . This means , I assume , that I ( being a bit more pension than teen age ) can no longer carry that piece of essential kit that has sat in my trouser pocket for more than half a century .

Putting aside the pros and cons of such nanny state legislation ,am I breaking the law by carrying a pen knife in my pocket , yes or no ?

And if yes is there a home for rejected knives ? He is house trained and , apart from the odd occasion when he cut my finger , perfectly well behaved .

[Hugh Saskin]

Let's go back to 1976 when, as a young man, I worked in the East End of London. Having our food one day, I produced a penknife to slice a piece of fruit. The bloke sat opposite me, a native, said 'It's ok for you to use that but if a black kid round here produced that he'd be nicked' Nothing new under the sun then, except it's spread out into the sticks

[regor]

We must rise up, gird our loins, band together and make a stand against the criminally insane hoards of penknife carrying pensioners before civilisation as we know it is destroyed by this menace to society.

[lordtup]

We must rise up, gird our loins, band together and make a stand against the criminally insane hoards of penknife carrying pensioners before civilisation as we know it is destroyed by this menace to society.

You young whipper snappers should show a little respect to your elders and "betters" .

I remember when ....... , no sorry I don't , but I am sure if I did then It would be right .

[Darren]

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/CrimeJusticeAn...ntion/DG_078569

it is illegal for any shop to sell a knife of any kind (including cutlery and kitchen knives) to anyone under the age of 18

it is generally an offence to carry a knife in public without good reason or lawful authority (for example, a good reason is a chef on the way to work carrying their own knives)

the maximum penalty for an adult carrying a knife is four years in prison and a fine of £5000

knives where the blade folds into the handle, like a Swiss Army Knife, aren't illegal as long as the blade is shorter than three inches (7.62 cms)

[lordtup]

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/CrimeJusticeAn...ntion/DG_078569

it is illegal for any shop to sell a knife of any kind (including cutlery and kitchen knives) to anyone under the age of 18

it is generally an offence to carry a knife in public without good reason or lawful authority (for example, a good reason is a chef on the way to work carrying their own knives)

the maximum penalty for an adult carrying a knife is four years in prison and a fine of £5000

knives where the blade folds into the handle, like a Swiss Army Knife, aren't illegal as long as the blade is shorter than three inches (7.62 cms)

Thank you for the definitive answer , not quite sure the blade length so I will check it shortly but I'm pretty sure it's less than 3 inches .
If I am arrested can I call you as an expert witness ?

[Iommi]

Albeit I'm finding this a rather boring thread, I thought I might add this link...

http://www.thesite.org/homelawandmoney/law...eaponsandthelaw

Knives in public and in private
It isn't illegal in the UK to own a knife in private (though flick knives, butterfly knives and disguised knives are prohibited). However, if any knife is used in a threatening way, in a private environment, it becomes an offensive weapon. It's an offence to carry any knife in public, even if you're not behaving in a threatening manner, and you can face a penalty of two year's imprisonment and a £5,000 fine for doing so.

Legal exceptions for carrying a knife
Under certain circumstances, it's legal to be in possession of a knife in public:

• If it's a tool of the trade (i.e. you work in catering or carpentry);
• For religious reasons (i.e. a Sikh kirpan);
• If it's a penknife (pocket or folding knife) less than three inches long (although it may be considered offensive if carried for the purpose of causing injury or harm).

[On the edge]

Albeit I'm finding this a rather boring thread, I thought I might add this link...

http://www.thesite.org/homelawandmoney/law...eaponsandthelaw

Knives in public and in private
It isn't illegal in the UK to own a knife in private (though flick knives, butterfly knives and disguised knives are prohibited). However, if any knife is used in a threatening way, in a private environment, it becomes an offensive weapon. It's an offence to carry any knife in public, even if you're not behaving in a threatening manner, and you can face a penalty of two year's imprisonment and a £5,000 fine for doing so.

Legal exceptions for carrying a knife
Under certain circumstances, it's legal to be in possession of a knife in public:

• If it's a tool of the trade (i.e. you work in catering or carpentry);
• For religious reasons (i.e. a Sikh kirpan);
• If it's a penknife (pocket or folding knife) less than three inches long (although it may be considered offensive if carried for the purpose of causing injury or harm).

How does one get a knife, legally purchased from a retailer in the normal course of business? Why would someone working as a chef, presumably in a Restaurant have his knives with him? For what religious reason would a weapon of any sort be needed 'in public'? This seems to ask more questions than it answers.

[Iommi]

How does one get a knife, legally purchased from a retailer in the normal course of business hime?

A shop???

Why would someone working as a chef, presumably in a Restaurant have his knives with him?

First day...the last ones had worn out! The point is, people might have good reason to have a knife, but anyone using one in a threatening manner could be prosecuted.

For what religious reason would a weapon of any sort be needed 'in public'?

A knife is only a weapon if used in malice, a knife in religious terms is a symbol.

This seems to ask more questions than it answers.

I really don't see what is so hard to understand.

Enough said...this is getting really boooooring.

[Anon2]

I do think that an important point of law has been missed here. The knife concerned has a lockable blade. Therefore this is illegal, the length of the blade in this case is not the point (excuse the pun).

[On the edge]

Enough said...this is getting really boooooring.

Have corrected the 'spare letters' in original post. Answer to your question, yes, generally a shop. Your post outlining the legal position very clearly implies that it is illegal for someone to have with them a knife they have just purchased and are on their way home. I do not think that can be the case - which in my mind at least, calls the source into question. Finally, is a debate on English law really that boring? Some people make a rich living doing just that all day.

[JeffG]

Have corrected the 'spare letters' in original post.

... which now has a completely different sense to the one I originally read (and Iommi misread). Which was how one got a knife home one had just bought without breaking the law.

As for the chef thing: as far as I know, a chef's knives are his/her personally-owned tools of the trade, and are not going to be left lying around in a restaurant kitchen for anyone else to pick up.

[GMR]

I believe that if a knife has just been purchased - and you have a receipt to prove that - and it is in its wrapper/ including bag then you will not be punished by law.

[Anon2]

I believe that if a knive has just been purchased - and you have a receipt to prove that - and it is in its wrapper/ including bag then you will not be punished by law.

Not actually the case. You would still need to prove either lawful authority or reasonable excuse to have a knife in your possession. Having said that it would be down to the Police Officer involved to decide on this in the first instance, by way of questioning.

[On the edge]

Not actually the case. You would still need to prove either lawful authority or reasonable excuse to have a knife in your possession. Having said that it would be down to the Police Officer involved to decide on this in the first instance, by way of questioning.

So, according to this, you are saying it is illegal to be on possession of a knife you have just purchased legitimately and are transporting it home. Yet, in a previous post, it is held that it is quite OK for a Chef to take his knives from his place of employment and have them with him – on the basis that they are the personal tools of his trade. And we don’t live in a Police state! I would argue that actually it is quite legal in the first circumstance but if and only if the Police have good reason to suspect that the person with the knife might be about to do criminal acts. Frankly, having had some experience of the restaurant trade I’d be more suspicious of a chef in such circumstances. Would not be unreasonable for any restaurant to invest in a safe in which to keep knives on the premises – a suitable one is less than £30 from Tesco!

[Hugh Saskin]

Has anyone ever seen one of these mobile metal detector gadgets in use in Newbury? I saw one in the subway of Basingstoke Railway Station one Saturday last year and the police were inviting various prominent citizens (well, chavs) to pass through a portal. Presumably bells and horns would sound if they got a result.

[Anon2]

So, according to this, you are saying it is illegal to be on possession of a knife you have just purchased legitimately and are transporting it home. Yet, in a previous post, it is held that it is quite OK for a Chef to take his knives from his place of employment and have them with him – on the basis that they are the personal tools of his trade. And we don’t live in a Police state! I would argue that actually it is quite legal in the first circumstance but if and only if the Police have good reason to suspect that the person with the knife might be about to do criminal acts. Frankly, having had some experience of the restaurant trade I’d be more suspicious of a chef in such circumstances. Would not be unreasonable for any restaurant to invest in a safe in which to keep knives on the premises – a suitable one is less than £30 from Tesco!

No I'm not saying it is illegal to be in possession of a knife you have just purchased, providing you have lawful authority or reasonable excuse to have it in your possession. As already mentioned, the Police would ascertain this by way of questioning.

A Police state was not mentioned by me.

You can argue the legalities of it in a court of law, I was just quoting the law on this.

I agree with the chef scenario, as stated this would be confirmed by questioning (that's what the Police do!!) However I have taken a stanley type knife from a 17 year old at 10pm on a friday eve who told me he was a decorator (he was and therefore had a reasonable excuse ) and that he had it on him due to this. However when I asked him what time he had finished work, he said 4pm. He also said he had been home already so he had the opportunity to leave it there, therefore the reasonable excuse vanished - result - confiscation of said knife.

[On the edge]

Yes, certainly would have a good case to argue if I what I'd said. However, your last paragraph properly sums this up. Quite right, a decorator did have lawful reason to have a knife - but the circumstances, it being 10.00pm and his finishing work at 4.00pm eliminated that. So I'd wholly agree in that case, no matter whatever else he was doing, he could be prosecuted for having a knife in a public place...without good reason. And yes, I certainly understand the challenges and difficulties in Policing at that time of night.