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> Education.......The way forward .
SirWilliam
post Jan 5 2018, 09:24 PM
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I thought this was a joke headline till I actually read the piece .
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-42570861

I would expect an average 6 year old to know what continent the larger countries are proper to , but it seems that our education system is quite happy to churn out would be media studies entrants who are clueless of the world they inhabit . angry.gif


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Turin Machine
post Jan 5 2018, 10:09 PM
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Ahh, the young. Bless em, experts on everything. (According to them)
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On the edge
post Jan 6 2018, 07:43 AM
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Can't help thinking that this is a long term policy; a national dumbing down. Do we really need large numbers of highly educated people now and for the future? Is it not better to subliminally promote mass dependent obedience?

Yes, we see the results on social media, but so what if 'the masses' display such ignorance; they are at least content and not taking to the streets. So why worry; what can go wrong?


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Andy Capp
post Jan 6 2018, 11:07 AM
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Almost as dumb as an individual who accepts examples of ignorance as proof of a failed education system. tongue.gif
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SirWilliam
post Jan 6 2018, 12:27 PM
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QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Jan 6 2018, 11:07 AM) *
Almost as dumb as an individual who accepts examples of ignorance as proof of a failed education system. tongue.gif


Is it not the raison d'être of the school to at least teach it's pupils basic knowledge ? I do accept that ignorance is somehow the fault of the individual because their ability is not as great as their contemporaries . By the age of 11 every child in the state education system should be able to handle simple mental and written mathematics without the use of a calculator , have a rudimentary knowledge of the past 1000 years of world history , be aware of the geographical structure of the planet and most important of all be able to read a work of fiction and able to digest the plot . Everything else is of superficial importance .
The Victorians , ( those much beloved by rabid tories and libtards alike ) , considered that the education of the masses would be detrimental to the stratification of the status quo and by concentrating on teaching the privileged few , leadership was preordained and the workers grateful for employment . Remember the Blair quote ? Well he failed to deliver , ( as in most things ) , as has the governments of both denominations who went before and have followed .
Maybe we , as a species , are intrinsically thick and therefore spending money on teaching us anything is a waste of resources ? Or we all have the ability to absorb information and the system should ensure that we succeed .
Me thinks the future is as unpredictable as a long range meteorological forecast but that doesn't mean we should ignore the facts.


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On the edge
post Jan 6 2018, 01:03 PM
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QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Jan 6 2018, 12:27 PM) *
Is it not the raison d'être of the school to at least teach it's pupils basic knowledge ? I do accept that ignorance is somehow the fault of the individual because their ability is not as great as their contemporaries . By the age of 11 every child in the state education system should be able to handle simple mental and written mathematics without the use of a calculator , have a rudimentary knowledge of the past 1000 years of world history , be aware of the geographical structure of the planet and most important of all be able to read a work of fiction and able to digest the plot . Everything else is of superficial importance .
The Victorians , ( those much beloved by rabid tories and libtards alike ) , considered that the education of the masses would be detrimental to the stratification of the status quo and by concentrating on teaching the privileged few , leadership was preordained and the workers grateful for employment . Remember the Blair quote ? Well he failed to deliver , ( as in most things ) , as has the governments of both denominations who went before and have followed .
Maybe we , as a species , are intrinsically thick and therefore spending money on teaching us anything is a waste of resources ? Or we all have the ability to absorb information and the system should ensure that we succeed .
Me thinks the future is as unpredictable as a long range meteorological forecast but that doesn't mean we should ignore the facts.


It's probably that we have the intrinsic ability to learn and the ability to extend what we have learned. Formal education is nothing to do with individual survival, more the sustainability and continuation of the community. In a primitive society the ability to trap and prepare food is a key skill; one that most of us today will be quite ignorant about. As society develops, the educational strategy necessarily adapts to suit the need.


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The Hatter
post Jan 7 2018, 07:59 AM
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QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Jan 5 2018, 09:24 PM) *
I thought this was a joke headline till I actually read the piece .
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-42570861

I would expect an average 6 year old to know what continent the larger countries are proper to , but it seems that our education system is quite happy to churn out would be media studies entrants who are clueless of the world they inhabit . angry.gif


Old people are always saying thing were better when they were kids when they weren't. The World has changed because of better communications so media studies is a good course to go for.
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SirWilliam
post Jan 7 2018, 10:00 AM
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QUOTE (The Hatter @ Jan 7 2018, 07:59 AM) *
Old people are always saying thing were better when they were kids when they weren't. The World has changed because of better communications so media studies is a good course to go for.


I hold my hands up to the age accusation but not the assumption that things were somehow " better " back in the day. I was educated by a system that a condoned the use of a cane as an incentive to absorb knowledge and a social infrastructure that determined my future courtesy of the motto on my school tie .
So no "good old days" there , but that was then and now is as removed from that world as at any time in history . My point being that with our advancement should come increased enlightenment . The devise I am using to publish this reply is a thing of abject wonder in that it not only allows me to say my piece but have access to the most comprehensive learning tool imaginable .
So why is general ignorance still prevalent ?



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Andy Capp
post Jan 7 2018, 04:09 PM
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QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Jan 6 2018, 12:27 PM) *
Is it not the raison d'être of the school to at least teach it's pupils basic knowledge ? I do accept that ignorance is somehow the fault of the individual because their ability is not as great as their contemporaries . By the age of 11 every child in the state education system should be able to handle simple mental and written mathematics without the use of a calculator , have a rudimentary knowledge of the past 1000 years of world history , be aware of the geographical structure of the planet and most important of all be able to read a work of fiction and able to digest the plot . Everything else is of superficial importance .
The Victorians , ( those much beloved by rabid tories and libtards alike ) , considered that the education of the masses would be detrimental to the stratification of the status quo and by concentrating on teaching the privileged few , leadership was preordained and the workers grateful for employment . Remember the Blair quote ? Well he failed to deliver , ( as in most things ) , as has the governments of both denominations who went before and have followed .
Maybe we , as a species , are intrinsically thick and therefore spending money on teaching us anything is a waste of resources ? Or we all have the ability to absorb information and the system should ensure that we succeed .
Me thinks the future is as unpredictable as a long range meteorological forecast but that doesn't mean we should ignore the facts.

Who taught you to put a character space before a full-stop or question mark? wink.gif

The point I'm trying to make is to ask whether anecdotal examples of people's ignorance is proof of a failed education system; I don't think it is.

I suspect our education system is faulty, but not for that reason. Having a poor memory isn't necessarily the fault of an education. Just as not being numerate is proof either. Sadly, some of us are just simply lacking. Mine is spelling. With the best will in the world I just cannot spell. Not only that, my mental arithmetic is poor too. In my experience, the bias towards disciple probably affected my ability to learn. I saw it as a challenge and in my immaturity, I devoted more time to challenging that, than learning. I also resented the policy of shaming in class. I remember a number of people with certain learning difficulties being bullied in class.

I'm also not sure of the value of the received tuition of our history; the older I get, them more I realise a lot of it is propaganda.
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On the edge
post Jan 7 2018, 04:58 PM
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QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Jan 7 2018, 10:00 AM) *
I hold my hands up to the age accusation but not the assumption that things were somehow " better " back in the day. I was educated by a system that a condoned the use of a cane as an incentive to absorb knowledge and a social infrastructure that determined my future courtesy of the motto on my school tie .
So no "good old days" there , but that was then and now is as removed from that world as at any time in history . My point being that with our advancement should come increased enlightenment . The devise I am using to publish this reply is a thing of abject wonder in that it not only allows me to say my piece but have access to the most comprehensive learning tool imaginable .
So why is general ignorance still prevalent ?


It comes down to what is 'general ignorance'. i seem to recall some quite defunct subjects on the curriculum way back. At one stage, we were given a choice, Latin or Technical Drawing - both arguably no longer general subjects these days. There are a good few others. We no longer need great mental arithmetical skills; unless for competitive reasons, for instance. Why would just boys need a degree of proficiency in woodwork any more than girls in sewing. Is it now truly necessary for us to know the capitals of every country in the world or that George VI was last British Emperor of India.

We might not like what they've absorbed but those coming out of the education system today seem able to cope with a modern lifestyle that would have been totally alien to most of us.

The irony is, though we might not like the result, it was us older generations who sat back and let it all happen; not better organising the imperial transition to commonwealth, letting even our modern industry become smothered, maintaining an unquestioned deference to America, etc.

Where do we go from here? I suspect looking a lot like Australia, so the future may be different but will it be so bad....


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SirWilliam
post Jan 8 2018, 10:55 AM
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The popular consensus appears to propose that things are reasonably rosey in the garden and we should accept that we are all academically governed by our own ability and providing it doesn't present personal concern then the world continues to rotate on it's axis . This is fine and I have no problem with someone who has trouble with certain aspects of literacy / numeracy etc. as it is their position and no concern of the rest of the populace .
My rant is centred around the fact that those who are obviously at the muddy end of the pond deem fit to express their ignorance in the wider world before at least checking their facts .


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Turin Machine
post Jan 8 2018, 02:37 PM
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This might help.

https://youtu.be/Sz0o9clVQu8
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On the edge
post Jan 8 2018, 05:52 PM
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QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Jan 8 2018, 02:37 PM) *


....but who created this generation and probably its parents too Turin Machine?

tongue.gif


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SirWilliam
post Jan 8 2018, 06:48 PM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Jan 8 2018, 05:52 PM) *
....but who created this generation and probably its parents too Turin Machine?

tongue.gif


As good an argument as any to license reproduction . Those who do not posses an IQ of at least 140 would be subjected to mandatory abstinence of rumpy pumpy so leaving a future population consisting only of academics and genetically challenged individuals with a habsburg lip to run the world . The idea of an endogamy does have the advantage of being very short lived but an awful lot of damage can be achieved .
Joking apart , most of those I have met who were born this century appear to be level headed individuals who just want the chance to get a foot in the work place and build their future . The ones that don't are those who make the headlines .


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Andy Capp
post Jan 8 2018, 07:09 PM
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QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Jan 8 2018, 06:48 PM) *
Joking apart , most of those I have met who were born this century appear to be level headed individuals who just want the chance to get a foot in the work place and build their future . The ones that don't are those who make the headlines .

Bingo!
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Turin Machine
post Jan 9 2018, 12:43 AM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Jan 8 2018, 05:52 PM) *
....but who created this generation and probably its parents too Turin Machine?

tongue.gif

Weelll, at a rough guess I would say their Mummies and daddies, isn't that how it usually works??
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On the edge
post Jan 9 2018, 06:31 AM
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QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Jan 9 2018, 12:43 AM) *
Weelll, at a rough guess I would say their Mummies and daddies, isn't that how it usually works??


Yes, Empires wax and wane; ours is going down.




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On the edge
post Jan 9 2018, 06:35 AM
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QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Jan 8 2018, 06:48 PM) *
As good an argument as any to license reproduction . Those who do not posses an IQ of at least 140 would be subjected to mandatory abstinence of rumpy pumpy so leaving a future population consisting only of academics and genetically challenged individuals with a habsburg lip to run the world . The idea of an endogamy does have the advantage of being very short lived but an awful lot of damage can be achieved .
Joking apart , most of those I have met who were born this century appear to be level headed individuals who just want the chance to get a foot in the work place and build their future . The ones that don't are those who make the headlines .


The headlines are created by the deviant in any social group; but usually but usually reflect an underlying trend.

Re-reading the opening post is interesting. Then ask yourself; Is Turkey part of Europe?


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SirWilliam
post Jan 9 2018, 11:06 AM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Jan 9 2018, 06:35 AM) *
The headlines are created by the deviant in any social group; but usually but usually reflect an underlying trend.

Re-reading the opening post is interesting. Then ask yourself; Is Turkey part of Europe?


The bit this side of the Bosphorus is and the larger bit the other isn't . Simples . Then it get's complicated when the inhabitants of Istanbul are asked . It is a bit like asking at which point does the north of england begin ? Answers on a postcard please.


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Andy Capp
post Jan 9 2018, 01:28 PM
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QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Jan 9 2018, 11:06 AM) *
The bit this side of the Bosphorus is and the larger bit the other isn't . Simples . Then it get's complicated when the inhabitants of Istanbul are asked . It is a bit like asking at which point does the north of england begin ? Answers on a postcard please.

Why do you not punctuate correctly? Is it an old fashioned thing or are you using a typing aid (I don’t think you are, but mentioned it just-in-case)!
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