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> Catalonia, Shame Shame Shame
SirWilliam
post Oct 6 2017, 01:26 PM
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QUOTE (newres @ Oct 6 2017, 12:19 PM) *
You fit in well here with the other Daily Mail readers. rolleyes.gif


Praise indeed . wink.gif ( In the interests of equality it should be added that other propaganda rags are available on the high street ).


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Mr Brown
post Oct 6 2017, 04:57 PM
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QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Oct 6 2017, 01:23 PM) *
huh.gif I guess what you mean between the hyperbole, is that 'the liberals' like being in the EU.


Whereas my history tutor would have it that Mr Gladstone and his Liberals were the party of free trade; which the EU doesn't do outside it's high wall.
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SirWilliam
post Oct 6 2017, 05:38 PM
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Free trade for all ...........Providing it is between club members . Such restrictive practice is frowned upon by the very people who draw up the rules .
Strange bunch of coves if you ask me . smile.gif


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newres
post Oct 6 2017, 06:18 PM
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Free and fair trade between countries that recognize human rights and adhere to certain ethical standards. The new order hasn't started well anyway has it with the US over Boeing and food?
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Mr Brown
post Oct 6 2017, 09:07 PM
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Interesting point that one, for quite a few industries the EU isn't fair. Ironically food is a good example. It became a trade protection society for the original six and globalisation has made it obsolete.
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SirWilliam
post Oct 7 2017, 10:38 AM
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QUOTE (Mr Brown @ Oct 6 2017, 10:07 PM) *
Interesting point that one, for quite a few industries the EU isn't fair. Ironically food is a good example. It became a trade protection society for the original six and globalisation has made it obsolete.


The natural assumption that a trading cartel is good for all is intrinsically flawed. It benefits those who run such institutions and the crumbs filter down to the working class but in itself it does not create wealth only ring fences it . One of the problems facing the present Government is that "leap of faith" which requires us to withdraw from the comfort zone of European collectiveness and become an independant trading nation once more . May have to start manufacturing things but someone has too .
We are all aware of the difference between trading partners and political subjection , the problem is separating the two . There is absolutely no reason at all , ( apart from the EU's intransigence ) , why we shouldn't remain trading partners without being subject to their federalist control . The free movement of labour conundrum is a red herring .


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newres
post Oct 7 2017, 02:52 PM
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QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Oct 7 2017, 11:38 AM) *
The natural assumption that a trading cartel is good for all is intrinsically flawed. It benefits those who run such institutions and the crumbs filter down to the working class but in itself it does not create wealth only ring fences it . One of the problems facing the present Government is that "leap of faith" which requires us to withdraw from the comfort zone of European collectiveness and become an independant trading nation once more . May have to start manufacturing things but someone has too .
We are all aware of the difference between trading partners and political subjection , the problem is separating the two . There is absolutely no reason at all , ( apart from the EU's intransigence ) , why we shouldn't remain trading partners without being subject to their federalist control . The free movement of labour conundrum is a red herring .

May have to start manufacturing things? Protect the working class? I'd say these two things are mutually exclusive because we will never compete with the cheap labour nations of the Far East etc.

The bit in red. You're in having your cake and eating it land. It's not about federalist control, it's about competing on the same field with the same rules. These arguments go round in circles. We've the two camps - The Boris camp which tells us "it'll be great" without telling us how and we've got the rest that sees we are about to fall off a cliff. Reality has bitten though because May's great coup was her relationship with that moron Trump, which has been exposed for what it really is with Boeing.

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TallDarkAndHands...
post Oct 7 2017, 05:44 PM
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QUOTE (newres @ Oct 7 2017, 03:52 PM) *
May have to start manufacturing things? Protect the working class? I'd say these two things are mutually exclusive because we will never compete with the cheap labour nations of the Far East etc.

The bit in red. You're in having your cake and eating it land. It's not about federalist control, it's about competing on the same field with the same rules. These arguments go round in circles. We've the two camps - The Boris camp which tells us "it'll be great" without telling us how and we've got the rest that sees we are about to fall off a cliff. Reality has bitten though because May's great coup was her relationship with that moron Trump, which has been exposed for what it really is with Boeing.


Now listen up newres or eurores or whatever your non de plume is today. The dye is cast. We are leaving the EU. And Mr Juncker and his cronies. Catalonia... Nothing to see here... Disgrace..More pertinently who was Prime Minister of Luxembourg when dodgy tax deals were brokered with US multi nationals? Oh yes the very same Mr Juncker. You are supporting a dictatorship and what will soon be the USE.��
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Blake
post Oct 7 2017, 10:51 PM
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Let's look at the facts: Catalonia is akin to South East England. It is the centre of economic dynamism in Spain.

If it leaves Spain, the country will automatically lose 20% of economic activity; a very serious setback.

As many of us know, it was not just Greece that should never have joined the single currency; the books were cooked to get the likes of Spain and Italy in too. So, if Spain lose 20% of its economy, it may well again plunge the Euro into extremely hot water and possibly tip it over into collapse. So, this may well be why the EU's gauleiters would rather see a united Spain.
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TallDarkAndHands...
post Oct 8 2017, 02:16 PM
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QUOTE (Blake @ Oct 7 2017, 11:51 PM) *
Let's look at the facts: Catalonia is akin to South East England. It is the centre of economic dynamism in Spain.

If it leaves Spain, the country will automatically lose 20% of economic activity; a very serious setback.

As many of us know, it was not just Greece that should never have joined the single currency; the books were cooked to get the likes of Spain and Italy in too. So, if Spain lose 20% of its economy, it may well again plunge the Euro into extremely hot water and possibly tip it over into collapse. So, this may well be why the EU's gauleiters would rather see a united Spain.


So stuff democracy??? Time to break free. The EU will become a superstate. Its inevitable. And the people of that superstate will lose.
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SirWilliam
post Oct 8 2017, 07:01 PM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Oct 7 2017, 06:44 PM) *
Now listen up newres or eurores or whatever your non de plume is today. The dye is cast. We are leaving the EU. And Mr Juncker and his cronies. Catalonia... Nothing to see here... Disgrace..More pertinently who was Prime Minister of Luxembourg when dodgy tax deals were brokered with US multi nationals? Oh yes the very same Mr Juncker. You are supporting a dictatorship and what will soon be the USE.��


Steady on old chap , not his fault he can't see the obvious . Little doubt 10 years down the line Europe will look a lot different than today .
My immediate concern is the singular lack of direction from those in charge . European traders need us as much as we need them irrespective of the political carpetbaggers . My gut feeling is that eventually we shall revert back to a free trade agreement , ( Common Market ) ,and the federalists will slink back in their holes .


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TallDarkAndHands...
post Oct 8 2017, 09:05 PM
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QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Oct 8 2017, 08:01 PM) *
Steady on old chap , not his fault he can't see the obvious . Little doubt 10 years down the line Europe will look a lot different than today .
My immediate concern is the singular lack of direction from those in charge . European traders need us as much as we need them irrespective of the political carpetbaggers . My gut feeling is that eventually we shall revert back to a free trade agreement , ( Common Market ) ,and the federalists will sliwnk back in their holes .


That is all a lot of people including me want. But we can't. It's not part of the "plan".
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SirWilliam
post Oct 9 2017, 08:41 AM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Oct 8 2017, 10:05 PM) *
That is all a lot of people including me want. But we can't. It's not part of the "plan".


Plan ? Do they have one ? rolleyes.gif
You are talking now , I am looking a long way down the line . Remember it was only just over 70 years ago we were slaughtering each other . Indeed this has been the case for the last two thousand years so trading in a civilised manner is rather new .The furthest politicians look is the next general election so to see ten / twenty years hence is asking rather a lot . The general population of Europe will only embrace federal control if it is in their interest . Nothing so far indicates that this will be the case . A population of sixty million is a pretty enticing market and the market gardeners of Southern Europe are not going to turn their back just to appease some faceless bureaucrat's directive .

I see Nick Clegg, ( for younger readers he used to be something in Government ), has published a book on ingratiating ourselves back to the Brussels table . Insomniacs take note . wink.gif


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newres
post Oct 9 2017, 10:35 AM
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Apparently the Cornish are watching with interest.
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SirWilliam
post Oct 9 2017, 10:43 AM
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QUOTE (newres @ Oct 9 2017, 11:35 AM) *
Apparently the Cornish are watching with interest.


Well that will put the kibosh on future productions of Poldark . biggrin.gif


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newres
post Oct 9 2017, 11:48 AM
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QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Oct 9 2017, 11:43 AM) *
Well that will put the kibosh on future productions of Poldark . biggrin.gif

Sadly I doubt it.
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SirWilliam
post Oct 9 2017, 02:40 PM
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QUOTE (newres @ Oct 9 2017, 12:48 PM) *
Sadly I doubt it.


Not into bare chests and heaving bosoms then ? Or should it be the other way round ? wink.gif


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je suis Charlie
post Oct 9 2017, 10:29 PM
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"Puigdemont is scheduled to speak on Tuesday at 6pm local time (16:00 GMT) "to report on the current political situation".

He has been warned by a spokesman of Spain's main ruling that he risks arrest if he proceeds with secession.

"History should not be repeated," said Pablo Casado of the People's Party (PP).

"We hope that tomorrow nothing will be declared, because perhaps the one who declares it will end up like the one who declared it 83 years ago."

Casado was referring to Lluis Companys, who proclaimed a short-lived Catalan state in 1934 and was arrested quickly thereafter. Six years later, he was executed by the government of Francisco Franco."

Death threats now, how nice! Good old sunny Spain, land of sand, sea, cold beer, and despots issuing death threats. Holiday destination for all the family.


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TallDarkAndHands...
post Oct 10 2017, 07:11 AM
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QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Oct 9 2017, 11:29 PM) *
"Puigdemont is scheduled to speak on Tuesday at 6pm local time (16:00 GMT) "to report on the current political situation".

He has been warned by a spokesman of Spain's main ruling that he risks arrest if he proceeds with secession.

"History should not be repeated," said Pablo Casado of the People's Party (PP).

"We hope that tomorrow nothing will be declared, because perhaps the one who declares it will end up like the one who declared it 83 years ago."

Casado was referring to Lluis Companys, who proclaimed a short-lived Catalan state in 1934 and was arrested quickly thereafter. Six years later, he was executed by the government of Francisco Franco."

Death threats now, how nice! Good old sunny Spain, land of sand, sea, cold beer, and despots issuing death threats. Holiday destination for all the family.


And "no comment" from the EU. I wonder if they would say anything if the Scots had an unauthorised referendum and we sent the cops up north to beat up rhe Nationalists... I wonder....????
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newres
post Oct 10 2017, 12:27 PM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Oct 10 2017, 08:11 AM) *
And "no comment" from the EU. I wonder if they would say anything if the Scots had an unauthorised referendum and we sent the cops up north to beat up rhe Nationalists... I wonder....????

What would the British government do if Scotland pressed ahead? Our police have proved that they are not beyond beating up people and even murder for defying laws - poll tax, miner's strike etc Does any news happen that you cannot sneak in an anti EU angle however inappropriate?
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