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> Halal, why should we put up with this?, If fox hunting with dogs is outlawed, why not Halal?
x2lls
post Jan 1 2012, 09:28 PM
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Perhaps our MP's are finally going in the right direction.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-20...r.html#comments


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Strafin
post Jan 1 2012, 10:14 PM
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Whilst I think good on them for refusing, I can't help but think that they are making one rule for them and one rule for everyone else.
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Andy Capp
post Jan 1 2012, 10:50 PM
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Hypocrites, the lot of us. We are comfortable because someone, or something else is suffering. Halal meat is abominable, but then so is the way we treat animals.
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Cognosco
post Jan 1 2012, 10:56 PM
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QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Jan 1 2012, 10:50 PM) *
Hypocrites, the lot of us. We are comfortable because someone, or something else is suffering. Halal meat is abominable, but then so is the way we treat animals.


Laws were passed to ensure animals suffered the least amount of suffering before slaughter if it does not meet these requirements then it should be banned.


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Andy Capp
post Jan 1 2012, 10:58 PM
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QUOTE (Cognosco @ Jan 1 2012, 10:56 PM) *
Laws were passed to ensure animals suffered the least amount of suffering before slaughter if it does not meet these requirements then it should be banned.

Agreed, but should we be killing them in the first place?
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post Jan 1 2012, 11:20 PM
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QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Jan 1 2012, 10:58 PM) *
Agreed, but should we be killing them in the first place?


Well considering we are at the top of the food chain and there are minerals and what not in meat that, if we had not been meat eaters, would not have made us into the awesome specimens we all are today...I'd say so.

Cows don't have feelings. When was the last time you went to group therapy and Dorris the Cow was there crying her little hoofs off because Billy the Bull cheated on her, or how she's not lactating properly? Only cats, dogs and wildebeast deserve compassion.

In this country we are not a halal-consumer. It doesn't meat (see what I did there) with our laws about animal safety and should not be followed. I appreciate these Muslim MPs are British, fair enough, but it's a British government building and they are able to do what they want.

I think they should offer it but it should be on a fixed basis, as in if you want the Halal meat you must agree to have it, otherwise it would be brought in and thrown out due to people not eating it.


If I were the leader, I'd just put a sign up saying "Halal meat" when in actual fact it was the same stuff I was giving everyone else.
Religion is a silly thing, it's great to believe in a higher power when you run out of logical and scientifically provable answers to lifes problems but things like how the animal you kill has to suffer more than necessary is just stupid and people shouldn't kick up a stink about it.

After all, I don't suppose British MPs in the Islamic government (if there are any) get a Full English as and when they want.

Talking of food, I need to beat my meat. It's misbehaving again.
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Andy Capp
post Jan 1 2012, 11:27 PM
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QUOTE (xjay1337 @ Jan 1 2012, 11:20 PM) *
Well considering we are at the top of the food chain and there are minerals and what not in meat that, if we had not been meat eaters, would not have made us into the awesome specimens we all are today...I'd say so.

We also have the compassion and the recognition when creatures are in distress. We are also the only creatures (that I am aware of) that cook food. Perhaps we are not meant to eat 'them'?

Cows, et al, mourn.
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NWNREADER
post Jan 1 2012, 11:59 PM
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Humans are omnivores by evolution - hence we have canine teeth as well as molars. There is other physiological support for meat in the diet being a norm. Most of what we eat can be eaten raw - including meat - but it can be a bit of a chew. Currently only celery is negative benefit; if more was eaten uncooked that would change. Cooking also cleans food and removes harmful bacteria.
Next we will be making cats and dogs vegetarian......

Religious rites for the sacrifice/slaughter of animals for consumption are only relevant to followers of that religion. It is not realistic to require every food provider to offer each religion food prepared according to religious rite. There are plenty of Halal/Kosher etc restaurants within reach of Parliament.
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Andy Capp
post Jan 2 2012, 12:12 AM
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QUOTE (NWNREADER @ Jan 1 2012, 11:59 PM) *
Cooking also cleans food and removes harmful bacteria.

Exactly.

QUOTE (NWNREADER @ Jan 1 2012, 11:59 PM) *
Next we will be making cats and dogs vegetarian......

Both eat vegetation by nature, and their dry food is most probably not mainly meat.
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NWNREADER
post Jan 2 2012, 12:19 AM
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Making............

Dry pet food is not exactly natural diet and can be harmful if not administered correctly.
Cats chew grass as a digestive aid, not as a food. Not sure which dogs consume vegetation. Either way, my observation was more directed towards the compulsion to not eat meat, and the range of vegetable foods that would involve...

As for the agreement re cooking, I'm confused (again!!!)....
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Andy Capp
post Jan 2 2012, 12:30 AM
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QUOTE (NWNREADER @ Jan 2 2012, 12:19 AM) *
Dry pet food is not exactly natural diet and can be harmful if not administered correctly.

Well, I'd usually insist on them using the mouth! unsure.gif vets, who I am sure only have the welfare of the animal at heart tongue.gif , usually try to impress dry food on us!

QUOTE (NWNREADER @ Jan 2 2012, 12:19 AM) *
Cats chew grass as a digestive aid, not as a food. Not sure which dogs consume vegetation.

Presumably you haven't owned a dog; they eat anything and everything.

QUOTE (NWNREADER @ Jan 2 2012, 12:19 AM) *
As for the agreement re cooking, I'm confused (again!!!)....

We have to cook to stop it from harming us. Our incisors are not ideal meat masticators.
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Penelope
post Jan 2 2012, 12:39 AM
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Cats are Carnivores, do your homework. Any way if we are going to kill any animal for food it should be done in the most humane manner possible. Halal meat is an abomination and should not be allowed in what is still a mainly non muslim country.
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NWNREADER
post Jan 2 2012, 12:42 AM
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QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Jan 2 2012, 12:30 AM) *
Well, I'd usually insist on them using the mouth! unsure.gif vets, who I am sure only have the welfare of the animal at heart tongue.gif , usually try to impress dry food on us!
They do? For cats? What do vets know?

Presumably you haven't owned a dog; they eat anything and everything. Correct..... I know some breeds chew anything and everything. They will chew slippers, but I doubt one would be given as a meal.....


We have to cook to stop it from harming us. Our incisors are not ideal meat masticators. The incisors are general purpose 'knives', cutting food onto mouth-size pieces regardless of source. The canines are the 'meat' teeth, for piercing and ripping.

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Andy Capp
post Jan 2 2012, 12:52 AM
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Yes, vets suggest dry food over moist.

Dogs do chew anything, but they also eat anything!

I know what our teeth are for, and they are not well equipped to eat meat. We have to cook it to make it easier. Indeed, our 'hunger' for meat is a massive resource consumer.


PS: NWNREADER, please quote properly!
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NWNREADER
post Jan 2 2012, 12:55 AM
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What has this to do with enforcement of halal?
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Andy Capp
post Jan 2 2012, 12:57 AM
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QUOTE (NWNREADER @ Jan 2 2012, 12:55 AM) *
What has this to do with enforcement of halal?

I thought that is obvious. People are getting pious over the treatment of animals. We are all cruel to animals to some degree.
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lordtup
post Jan 2 2012, 09:35 AM
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Interesting eclectic of views on a subject that I have campaigned vigorously over for half a century .
Firstly domestic farm animals are reared for the sole purpose of feeding the populace . If we didn't eat meat there would be no cattle , sheep ,pigs etc to debate .
Having established the need to rear animals for the table we must then decide how this achieved in the most cost effective way . Now contrary to popular concept animals do respond to kindness and any good livestock farmer will be first to admit that the quality of his end product is directly proportional to the care and attention lavished on them in the field.
Now having invested not only time and money but also the emotion of caring into his charges ,the final act of slaughter is an inevitability , but one that is to a degree outside his remit .
Anyone who has visited a slaughter house will testify that it is not easy viewing but modern facilities are monitored and we like to think that the dispatch is done in a humane fashion . Depending on the size of beast pre stunning is either by electric shock of captive bolt into the brain then it is hoisted up by the hind legs and the throat is then cut to drain the blood .I would like to say this is done out of sight of the the remaining animals but unfortunately they do witness their friends demise and this does cause real fear.Maybe not an ideal but probably as good as it gets and as directed by UK law.
In a Halal slaughter house there is no pre stunning .Sheep are hung upside down in a line and their throats cut as they pass along the line . Cattle are place in a large metal crush that rolls the beast on to it's back so that it can the throat is exposed . The noise from frightened animals is deafening . Anyone who thinks farm animals don't feel pain or sense fear are delusional . the barbarism of such establishments make the chasing of a fox by some upper class twit on a horse on a par with a game of scrabble.
You can accuse me of racialism if you like ,but the laws of this country stipulate certain practises and to exempt a section on religious or traditional grounds is unacceptable . If certain groups can not accept this then they should live elsewhere.
When in Rome.


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Rusty Bullet
post Jan 2 2012, 09:52 AM
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QUOTE (lordtup @ Jan 2 2012, 09:35 AM) *
If certain groups can not accept this then they should live elsewhere.


Oh look, another attack on followers of Islam.

Well, this forum has recently descended as far as muttering ..
." ...ruddy Johnny Foreigner ....coming over here drinking all our water...mutter mutter...shouldn't be allowed...mutter .....". Now we got the meat issue. I take it Kosher is out as well then?
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lordtup
post Jan 2 2012, 10:24 AM
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QUOTE (Rusty Bullet @ Jan 2 2012, 09:52 AM) *
Oh look, another attack on followers of Islam.

Well, this forum has recently descended as far as muttering ..
." ...ruddy Johnny Foreigner ....coming over here drinking all our water...mutter mutter...shouldn't be allowed...mutter .....". Now we got the meat issue. I take it Kosher is out as well then?


YESS !!! You have a problem with that ?


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Andy Capp
post Jan 2 2012, 10:42 AM
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QUOTE (Rusty Bullet @ Jan 2 2012, 09:52 AM) *
Oh look, another attack on followers of Islam.

I don't see it that way; Islam happen to endorse halal. I agree with others that our laws shouldn't be loosened to suit religious practice or culture, especially when it comes to the welfare of people and animals.
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