NTC - CEO's Christmas Market Decisions, Demoicracy Breaks Out Options

[Strafin]

£20k really? Sorry but I don't believe that.

[blackdog]

I'll have a bit of fun this morning, ribbing the market traders about their prices! Why haven't you passed on at least some of your rent reduction?

What rent reduction?

[blackdog]

You clearly haven't understood my last post, but I agree, the CEO is there to implement policy, but in this instance he failed to do so when unilaterally deciding to wave the rental fee.

Council leader, Julian Swift-Hook (Lib Dem, Pyle Hill) said: “Being faced with [the potential closure of the market] Graham Hunt decided that the council should waive the rent. None of the councillors were consulted on that decision, which is separate but related. We do have a process but that was not invoked. It’s not in the power of one person to make that decision. Spending money or forgoing income then that’s for the council to make. We’re not a business. We have to go through a democratic process. It was the right decision but the wrong process.”

So Mr Hunt gets his slap on the wrist.

I guess my issue is that I disagree with the process - JSH may be a power hungry micro-manager, but that doesn't mean he is right. Does he expect to be consulted on every bit of expenditure as a West Berks councillor? Of course he doesn't - he is part of the decision making process that sets departmental budgets etc, but WBC employees manage the day to day activities and expenditure and councillors monitor their work. NTC has a turnover of £1,000,000 - perhaps its time it was run a bit more like a business.

[Simon Kirby]

I think the town clerk earns in the region of £50,000 to £60,000 basic.

The last year for which the Council appear to have published the analysis is 2009/10, and in that year there was one officer earning between £50,000 and £60,000, excluding pension contribution. It doesn't say who, but it's a fair guess that the officer would be the town clerk.

Staff costs for the year ending 31 March 2013 are £349,831, that's salaries, PAYE, NI, pension, and employment expenses.

In 2010 there were 9 full-time staff, and 6 part-time staff, but I can't tell you what that figure is for 2013, though I believe it is still 12 full-time equivalent. That's an average staff cost of £29,152, which is pretty good going for what are mostly admin assistants.

[On the edge]

What rent reduction?

NTC is a public operation, it can't discriminate. So, if one lot of market traders don't have to pay rent, then the others don't either......

Of course, that would have been taken into consideration wouldn't it; because it was the right decision!

[Simon Kirby]

So Mr Hunt gets his slap on the wrist.

I guess my issue is that I disagree with the process - JSH may be a power hungry micro-manager, but that doesn't mean he is right. Does he expect to be consulted on every bit of expenditure as a West Berks councillor? Of course he doesn't - he is part of the decision making process that sets departmental budgets etc, but WBC employees manage the day to day activities and expenditure and councillors monitor their work. NTC has a turnover of £1,000,000 - perhaps its time it was run a bit more like a business.

I can see that RUP has ruffled your feathers. Good. With your criticism of JSH I'm even starting to warm to him. What the Town Council needs is councillors who have the enthusiasm and nous to take an interest in how it is being run rather than just assume that everything is fine and believe the spin when they're told that detractors are nothing but Vexatious Complainants.

[On the edge]

I think the town clerk earns in the region of £50,000 to £60,000 basic.

The last year for which the Council appear to have published the analysis is 2009/10, and in that year there was one officer earning between £50,000 and £60,000, excluding pension contribution. It doesn't say who, but it's a fair guess that the officer would be the town clerk.

Staff costs for the year ending 31 March 2013 are £349,831, that's salaries, PAYE, NI, pension, and employment expenses.

In 2010 there were 9 full-time staff, and 6 part-time staff, but I can't tell you what that figure is for 2013, though I believe it is still 12 full-time equivalent. That's an average staff cost of £29,152, which is pretty good going for what are mostly admin assistants.

Nice work if you can get it! Is this the going rate for shop workers in the town? I somehow don't think so.

[On the edge]

So Mr Hunt gets his slap on the wrist.

I guess my issue is that I disagree with the process - JSH may be a power hungry micro-manager, but that doesn't mean he is right. Does he expect to be consulted on every bit of expenditure as a West Berks councillor? Of course he doesn't - he is part of the decision making process that sets departmental budgets etc, but WBC employees manage the day to day activities and expenditure and councillors monitor their work. NTC has a turnover of £1,000,000 - perhaps its time it was run a bit more like a business.

Actually, he ought to be demanding to be told of any deviation from established practice, or where contract negotiations are failing. That's NOT micro management, more effective leadership. That the CEO even believed he could do this speaks volumes about the state of the Councils management. Empowerment in this particular instance seems to be an excuse for hands off management, or as we call it non management; old Barings method! By the way, the tills in big supermarkets turn over a million a year in many cases, so by your thinking, the check out supervisor should be racking up £50,000pa salary....

[Simon Kirby]

Of course, that would have been taken into consideration wouldn't it; because it was the right decision!

I'm happy to be corrected, but as I understand it if the town clerk waives the rent that's a legally enforceable decision even if the officer was acting beyond her authority. I guess if the council had resolved not to waive the rent then they would have had to sue the town clerk for the money.

Conversely, being as how the Christmas Market isn't paying any rent now is there actually an enforceable contract? - contracts need consideration remember. I can imagine that might complicate matters if the wheels fall off this thing.

[On the edge]

I can see that RUP has ruffled your feathers. Good. With your criticism of JSH I'm even starting to warm to him. What the Town Council needs is councillors who have the enthusiasm and nous to take an interest in how it is being run rather than just assume that everything is fine and believe the spin when they're told that detractors are nothing but Vexatious Complainants.

Absolutely! Agree with JSH spendthrift ways or not, he IS the elected leader. Now in an embarrassing position, but to give him his due, he does seem to take his responsibilities seriously.

[On the edge]

I'm happy to be corrected, but as I understand it if the town clerk waives the rent that's a legally enforceable decision even if the officer was acting beyond her authority. I guess if the council had resolved not to waive the rent then they would have had to sue the town clerk for the money.

Conversely, being as how the Christmas Market isn't paying any rent now is there actually an enforceable contract? - contracts need consideration remember. I can imagine that might complicate matters if the wheels fall off this thing.

That's right, the clerk is acting under delegated authority. The Councillors ought to be worried themselves, because (though perhaps not this instance) could end up surcharged by such 'empowered' actions.

Consideration can be intangible, so that might be one way round. However this could be quite a minefield, for instance, what about public liability insurance etc.

[user23]

I'd be surprised if any of the basic shop workers in town got anywhere near twenty grand a year. Lots of them are on the zero hour kick as well.

We were discussing what "highly paid" means.

OTE thinks it's "more than £20k", which is actually less than the average wage.

This seems unrealistic to me.

[Simon Kirby]

Consideration can be intangible, so that might be one way round. However this could be quite a minefield, for instance, what about public liability insurance etc.

It would certainly be reasonable to expect the Christmas Market to have public liability insurance and I believe it's a requirement of the letting that it is in place, but can we trust the Council to have validated that it is in place, or would they even tell us if they had waived that requirement?

[Andy Capp]

I guess my issue is that I disagree with the process - JSH may be a power hungry micro-manager, but that doesn't mean he is right. Does he expect to be consulted on every bit of expenditure as a West Berks councillor? Of course he doesn't - he is part of the decision making process that sets departmental budgets etc, but WBC employees manage the day to day activities and expenditure and councillors monitor their work. NTC has a turnover of £1,000,000 - perhaps its time it was run a bit more like a business.

On this specific point, JSH is nothing of the sort. If you know he is not right, then please explain with what authority how you know better? The CEO made a decision that was procedurally not his to make. His action has the potential to devalue anything they try to negotiate that is similar. I am also not aware that a Christmas market was a must-have manifesto promise.

I am not against the council endorsing things like this: waiving fees, but, I am against the council appearing to be picking and choosing its causes. Especially as I had come to understand that town centre initiatives like this had been 'outsourced' to the BID set-up.

[Simon Kirby]

We were discussing what "highly paid" means.

OTE thinks it's "more than £20k", which is actually less than the average wage.

This seems unrealistic to me.

It would appear that an officer of the council earns between £50,000 and £60,000 plus pension.

These things are relative of course so I wouldn't call that a high wage for say the head of a government research establishment managing several hundred staff or for the head of department at a Russell Group university, but for the clerk of a modest town council, yes, I'd say that wage is on the high side.

I think the Town Council could do a much better job if it did less and engaged more. I think a part-time clerk on maybe £25k pro-rata, with perhaps two full-time grounds staff and a full-time office admin on something more like £18-20k would do the town very well. The allotments would self-manage of course, the Newbury Society could provide a ceremonial mayor if they wanted to, the BID could take on the Charter Market and let it sink or swim, the clerk and admin could work out of a modest office on the Greenham Bisiness Park and hire a meeting room for monthly council meetings. There'd be the cemetery to run and the grounds maintenance contract to keep an eye on, and one or two bits and bobs like the clock tower and street lighting to pay for, but that's about it.

[blackdog]

Actually, he ought to be demanding to be told of any deviation from established practice, or where contract negotiations are failing. That's NOT micro management, more effective leadership. That the CEO even believed he could do this speaks volumes about the state of the Councils management. Empowerment in this particular instance seems to be an excuse for hands off management, or as we call it non management; old Barings method!

I'm not arguing against monitoring and ensuring compliance with established practise - Mr Hunt broke the rules and has been chastised for it. I'm sure he is regretting it now.

My arguments are

1) that it was a minor transgression that is being built up into something major - if we were talking £25k it would be different.

2) that the established practice is over-management. Why employ a well qualified local government officer at a significant salary and not allow him some leeway in delivering the Council's aims?

By the way, the tills in big supermarkets turn over a million a year in many cases, so by your thinking, the check out supervisor should be racking up £50,000pa salary....

Quite the opposite - I am saying that someone being paid £50k+ in his sort of position should be trusted to do his job and with some degree of financial empowerment. I am saying that a budget of £1,000,000 should be managed professionally, not by a bunch of amateur politicos. They should set the budgets and let the CEO manage them.

[Strafin]

Would it not be the same amateurs who have to employ the CEO?

[blackdog]

Would it not be the same amateurs who have to employ the CEO?

Fair point.

[On the edge]

I'm not arguing against monitoring and ensuring compliance with established practise - Mr Hunt broke the rules and has been chastised for it. I'm sure he is regretting it now.

My arguments are

1) that it was a minor transgression that is being built up into something major - if we were talking £25k it would be different.

2) that the established practice is over-management. Why employ a well qualified local government officer at a significant salary and not allow him some leeway in delivering the Council's aims?


Quite the opposite - I am saying that someone being paid £50k+ in his sort of position should be trusted to do his job and with some degree of financial empowerment. I am saying that a budget of £1,000,000 should be managed professionally, not by a bunch of amateur politicos. They should set the budgets and let the CEO manage them.

Yes, that sums up exactly what's wrong with Newbury Town Council. An empire has been created but it's far too small to contain the egos it has captured. I'd repeat, what's the point of the Councillors if the CEO does everything?

Amateur politicos, rather similar to executive directors, MP's, commission members and so forth. Let's face it, the 'professional experts' brought us the economic crisis!

Strikes me we now have someone hugely overqualified for the task in the role and is demonstrating frustration at not being able to progress.

[Simon Kirby]

Quite the opposite - I am saying that someone being paid £50k+ in his sort of position should be trusted to do his job and with some degree of financial empowerment. I am saying that a budget of £1,000,000 should be managed professionally, not by a bunch of amateur politicos. They should set the budgets and let the CEO manage them.

Although the Council agreed that the right decision was taken I think that is debatable. You clearly have an interest in the council's affairs - can you think of another example where the Council has waived anything in the order of £3.7k of revenue? I've taken an interest in what the Council does for some years and I can't think of anything of the sort happening before.

It appears to me to create a perverse precedent. What if Camp Hopson came to the Council saying it couldn't afford to open its shop in December unless the Council gifted it £3.7k - would that be a prudent and responsible gift for the Council to make - it would after all be in the public interest to step in to prevent us losing a retail opportunity, right?