Trinity School - GCSE results, ..is this a failing school? Options

[Rachel]

Rachel, are you saying that in your opinion, a certain 'super-head' is collecting 'glory' for something that was already in place, and is also now presiding over said school who's performance might now be dipping?

Not really, I don't know enough about Trinity or Mr D as my "world" is primary education. However, I suspect that every school has the possibility of being great; the majority of parents want to do the best by their children, regardless of social background, & if this is harnessed & everyone -staff, pupils, parents, community- is working towards the same outcome, the pupils will achieve their best (THEIR best, of course, being the optimum goal). My experience is that a Head who realises this & leads everyone towards a common goal will succeed, & that job should command a high wage. By the same token, a Head that fails in this mission, should be sacked PDQ;no excuses accepted, as clearly, it can be done. The school I speak of proves this, as does Trinity & John O Gaunt from what I've read.

[DrPepper]

Some super, positive comments on here, great news! I speak from experience of a tiny primary school in our vicinity; 5 years ago it was pulled out of special measures by a fantastic Head who inspired her staff, pupils, famillies & the local community. It was West Berks best kept secret & no-one wanted to shout too much about it because small was perfect; they didn't have to publish SATs results, it was like a family where children of all abilities thrived & for a time, it was the happiest place anyone could imagine & for my money, the Head that lead that revollution couldn't have been paid enough-what price a child's education? I'd have gladly given my right arm for her to stay. However, she needed to move on (lucky other school!) & a new Head was appointed. In 2 years & 1 term since his appointment to this tiny, 4 class school, 23 members of staff have left. 23. Ofsted reported a reduction to "satisfactory" from "good with elements of outstanding". Pupil numbers have dropped, the community have all but abandonned the school functions & very few parents even speak in the playground, let alone attempt to support their children's learning. That's not because they don't care, just that they feel let down & exhausted by the work of 1 person. So how much is a head worth? In my opinion, all the money they can get if they can motivate their school community, or not as much as urinating on 1 if they're on fire if they can't.

Exactly - don't blame the parents, it's not their job to teach and produce the results - that is the job of employed staff, and their CHOSEN career. I get fed up to the back teeth with teachers blaming their short comings on the parents. Teachers have taken on a "job" - they now need to do the "job" that they chose to do. NO amount of money will produce a good head - a committed individual will produce results. WHY have pupil pupil numbers dropped - it wasn't because a fantastic job was being done by the staff, exactly the opposite!

[Rachel]

Exactly - don't blame the parents, it's not their job to teach and produce the results - that is the job of employed staff, and their CHOSEN career. I get fed up to the back teeth with teachers blaming their short comings on the parents. Teachers have taken on a "job" - they now need to do the "job" that they chose to do. NO amount of money will produce a good head - a committed individual will produce results. WHY have pupil pupil numbers dropped - it wasn't because a fantastic job was being done by the staff, exactly the opposite!

I don't think I made myself clear, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to "blame" anyone, & I don't agree that teaching is not a parental responsibility; we are our children's most influential teachers from birth, & I personally want to hold on to that role, not offload it onto someone just because they chose it as a proffession. However, I think that many of us wouldn't feel comfortable in teaching children some aspects of the curricullum, & thus want to rely on teaching staff to do this. This is the reason I think that a Head's role is foremost to gallvanize the school community & lead everyone along the same path.
You ask why pupil numbers have dropped; many of the staff have been great & have done a brilliant job, but they haven't stayed (I think you can guess why). When your child has such inconsistency of staff, no matter how dynamic each individual might be, the result is going to be endless rounds of assessing, target making, new initiatives then moving on, & you don't fatten a pig by weighing it.
In my opinon, a good head should be rewarded, because he or she can make or break a school & with that is the responsibility of the education & future of a generation.

[DrPepper]

I don't think I made myself clear, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to "blame" anyone, & I don't agree that teaching is not a parental responsibility; we are our children's most influential teachers from birth, & I personally want to hold on to that role, not offload it onto someone just because they chose it as a proffession. However, I think that many of us wouldn't feel comfortable in teaching children some aspects of the curricullum, & thus want to rely on teaching staff to do this. This is the reason I think that a Head's role is foremost to gallvanize the school community & lead everyone along the same path.
You ask why pupil numbers have dropped; many of the staff have been great & have done a brilliant job, but they haven't stayed (I think you can guess why). When your child has such inconsistency of staff, no matter how dynamic each individual might be, the result is going to be endless rounds of assessing, target making, new initiatives then moving on, & you don't fatten a pig by weighing it.
In my opinon, a good head should be rewarded, because he or she can make or break a school & with that is the responsibility of the education & future of a generation.

Disagree, sorry, but this was never an issue 30 years ago - you either had a good school or a bad school - teachers make the school, from what I have seen a new "head" likes to change the decor and claim that'll improve results, and looking at Trinity and John o'Gaunt this is all they have done and just changed position at the bottom of West Berks league table. Fantastic "super heads" who are both still bottom of the league!!!!!

[Iommi]

Sorry Rachel, I'm struggling to understand what your message is. Is your problem about the demands made by the authorities?

[DrPepper]

Sorry Rachel, I'm struggling to understand what your message is. Is your problem about the demands made by the authorities?

I'm making a wild presumption that Rachel is a teacher who is having difficulty in working in the teaching profession - I could well be wrong though.

[Rachel]

Sorry Rachel, I'm struggling to understand what your message is. Is your problem about the demands made by the authorities?

I just think that if a head can lead the whole school community effectively, they should be rewarded for their talents. I think a talented head will be able to do a great job wherever they go, because they will build a team & forge ahead, & this can be done because most parents want to help their children & staff will want to work under a strong head; ie Strong Head leads focused staff leads focused children assisted by focused parents & community.

[DrPepper]

I just think that if a head can lead the whole school community effectively, they should be rewarded for their talents. I think a talented head will be able to do a great job wherever they go, because they will build a team & forge ahead, & this can be done because most parents want to help their children & staff will want to work under a strong head; ie Strong Head leads focused staff leads focused children assisted by focused parents & community.

Unless they are trying to run two schools as a part-time head i.e Mr D I C K

[Rachel]

I'm making a wild presumption that Rachel is a teacher who is having difficulty in working in the teaching profession - I could well be wrong though.

I do work in education, Dr Pepper, but I am not a teacher. I have no difficulty in work; I am extremely happy, as I work in a great school with a great team, but thankyou for your concern!
Ref "what new Heads do" that may be your perception, & I'm sure you may be right, some of the time, but I've seen what a genuine difference a Head can make, both good & bad, & that's why I think they're worth paying if they improve a school.
Ref 30 years ago; Education was a world apart then; firstly everyone went to their local school & it was at the heart of the community with a broad cross section of society in each school. The removal of grammar schools & introduction of choice has served to re-inforce elitism as oppose to reducing it.

[Iommi]

I feel that there has been way too much emphasis on academics - getting grades and that some how is the be and end all. This is pointless for those that simply are not A grade; having average grades are pointless. There seems little for the academically average to aspire to.

I believe in catchments as well. Go to your local school. Then perhaps everyone else can get to work on time; if we cannot improve school standards. We might have fewer fat kids as well.

[Rachel]

I feel that there has been way too much emphasis on academics - getting grades and that some how is the be and end all. This is pointless for those that simply are not A grade; having average grades are pointless. There seems little for the academically average to aspire to.

I believe in catchments as well. Go to your local school. Then perhaps everyone else can get to work on time, if we cannot improve school standards. We might have fewer fat kids as well.

See post #41 -A child's own best is the optimum goal. This should be not only academic; the world will always need tractor drivers, refuse collectors etc; non academics & academics alike. Children need to find their ability, then work hard to improve & branch out, that's a true education...& walking to school with your mates is all part of that, probably when you first debated to be honest! But "choice" is here to stay & we can't change that, so will have to work with it

[DrPepper]

See post #41 -A child's own best is the optimum goal. This should be not only academic; the world will always need tractor drivers, refuse collectors etc; non academics & academics alike. Children need to find their ability, then work hard to improve & branch out, that's a true education...& walking to school with your mates is all part of that, probably when you first debated to be honest! But "choice" is here to stay & we can't change that, so will have to work with it

Yep, brainwashed teacher talking- go out get and get real job then comment!!!! "walking to school with your mates" Now back in 2010...........

[Iommi]

Yep, brainwashed teacher talking- go out get and get real job then comment!!!! "walking to school with your mates" Now back in 2010...........

??????????

[DrPepper]

??????????

Walking to school - who does that these days - if you have to travel more than 100 yards it's out with the 4x4

[Iommi]

Walking to school - who does that these days - if you have to travel more than 100 yards it's out with the 4x4

Ah right, exactly. On my planet there would be catchments for private schools and there would be a no drive zone within a mile, except for those that live in that zone.

[On the edge]

I think Rachel is talking about ledership. A 'Head Teacher' is a catch all for two very distinct but important roles. Leader and Manager. In fact very little if any 'teaching' In any field of endevour inspiratiopnal leadership makes the difference between success and failure. That's what needs to be recognised. Mr D seems to be an inspirational leader - that's a role that can be shared. However, the 'management' bit which are distinct sets of processes can't be - however, they can be properly left to a deputy.

I suggest its our thinking that needs adjusting - particularly round the definition of the role 'Head Teacher'. In the commercial world this is similar to the oft discussed difference between an organisation's Chairman and Chief Executive.

So I'd agree with what Rachel is saying - we should be willing to pay to keep inspirational leaders, or at least understand the importance of this when recruiting.

Having said all that, being somewhat cynical of politicians - where it is understood that leadership is a key element - it can be used as a political tool. Never for one moment imagine we'd ever get to equality of esteem - most politicians have a vested interest to ensure we don't. So, if by chance we end up with a good school in the 'wrong place' what better way to eliminate it than by choosing a poor leader. Rachel mentions the school in question as very very small - does the LEA really want small schools?

[Iommi]

I'm still struggling to understand what Rachel is getting at.

It seems that a former head of a small failing school developed the school into happy and vibrant place to learn and teach, but recently that has changed and teachers and parents have deserted it. It is not clear to me if she is pointing to the subsequent 'head' placement (whatever happened to head-master and mistress?), or the authorities; parents or the teachers seem to be let-off.

It seems to me. she is speaking in a way so that we may draw our own conclusions, so as not to compromise her or other's positions. In other words Rachel, and I'm sure there might be one or two howls of 'hypocrite', but would you spit it out?

[JeffG]

Exactly - don't blame the parents, it's not their job to teach and produce the results - that is the job of employed staff, and their CHOSEN career

I don't think anyone was blaming parents for anything. But I hope I am misunderstanding your comment here that parents don't have any responsibility for their childrens' education?

Parents are a major part of a child's education, providing books, encouragement etc., and those that think it's just the teacher's job are giving their kids a very poor start in life.

[DrPepper]

I don't think anyone was blaming parents for anything. But I hope I am misunderstanding your comment here that parents don't have any responsibility for their childrens' education?

Parents are a major part of a child's education, providing books, encouragement etc., and those that think it's just the teacher's job are giving their kids a very poor start in life.

Yes, what I was getting at is that parents do have a large role to play in their kids education - it just that far to often teachers seem to want blame the parents for their (the teachers) failings in the class room. After all once the children have been left at the school gates there is very little the parent can do, then it's up to the teachers to teach and hopefully engage and inspire the pupils.

[Rachel]

Yep, brainwashed teacher talking- go out get and get real job then comment!!!! "walking to school with your mates" Now back in 2010...........

You couldn't be more wrong DP, but I won't be drawn into explaining how I've come to know about the schools I speak of, only to say that my main job title & the one I value above all others is "Mother". I do also work in a paid job, it is for 52 weeks a year & 5 days a week with 5 weeks paid holiday plus bank holidays. I have worked in both public & private sectors, lived in several places, travelled a little & been inside many institutions including prisons (though I have never been an inmate) & I believe that the lessons I have learned in life entitle me to comment. Indeed, I think that this forum deserves the input from people of all walks, & I think it's a sad indictement when people are made to feel belittled & bullied by other poster's comments. Or maybe I'm wrong there, too, DP, but I'm sure you'll tell me to go & get a real job before commenting again because I now understand that you are always right & everyone else should be quiet
Back to the real debate now please.