AV vote, Yes campaign strong in Newbury, but what will you do? Options

[NWNREADER]

Doesn't look like the Yes campaign is that strong in Newbury.

Not on a sample of 29. I suppose that would only be a valid sample if it produced the result you hoped for, and was reflected in the real result.......

[Andy Capp]

Doesn't look like the Yes campaign is that strong in Newbury.

I suspect that will be true in strong Tory seats. I see the No campaign as largely Tory based; they stand to lose-out most in AV.

[NWNREADER]

I suspect that will be true in strong Tory seats. I see the No campaign as largely Tory based. They stand to lose most in AV.

I suspect the 'Yes' campaign would always benefit the party seeking the controlling majority - however small. the party that already has the larger slice is never going to campaign for a system that can only risk weakening its position.

[blackdog]

I suspect the 'Yes' campaign would always benefit the party seeking the controlling majority - however small. the party that already has the larger slice is never going to campaign for a system that can only risk weakening its position.

The trouble is that the larger parties at present only have the support of 35% or so of the electorate. With FPTP they have a good chance of getting a working majority in the Commons, based on the support of just over a third of the voters - how can that be a fair voting system?

[NWNREADER]

The trouble is that the larger parties at present only have the support of 35% or so of the electorate. With FPTP they have a good chance of getting a working majority in the Commons, based on the support of just over a third of the voters - how can that be a fair voting system?

'Fair'? It is well established and properly applied with all aware in advance. With low turn-outs it is hard to see any other system would be 'fairer'.
It is as much democracy to chose not to vote and to accept the outcome of that decision. A good MP represents all his/her constituents all the time, regardless of who they voted for. There is much more to being an MP than voting in Parliament.

[Andy Capp]

'Fair'? It is well established and properly applied with all aware in advance. With low turn-outs it is hard to see any other system would be 'fairer'.

Except under the current system we got a government nobody voted for; is that fair, or even right? Had people understood the eventual outcome, would the voting pattern have been different. Would more people have voted Labour? AV at least offers people the option to avoid voting 'tactically'. That on its own seems better, if not fairer.

It is as much democracy to chose not to vote and to accept the outcome of that decision. A good MP represents all his/her constituents all the time, regardless of who they voted for. There is much more to being an MP than voting in Parliament.

True, but I don't see what this has got to do with the topic in hand.

[blackdog]

'Fair'? It is well established and properly applied with all aware in advance. With low turn-outs it is hard to see any other system would be 'fairer'.

How about one that would result in a parilament that reflects the voting pattern of the electorate? AV certainly isn't the fairest voting system but it is a huge improvement on FPTP.

If every vote counted would turn out be as low? FPTP is the system most likely to persuade voters that it isn't worth bothering to vote, particularly in places where one party dominates.

As for 'well established etc' being anything to do with fair - slavery was well established once, was that fair?

It is as much democracy to chose not to vote and to accept the outcome of that decision. A good MP represents all his/her constituents all the time, regardless of who they voted for. There is much more to being an MP than voting in Parliament.

AV doesn't make voting compulsory, nor would you have to express a preference for more than one candidate.

MPs work on behalf of some constituents on a day to day basis - but most have no contact with their MP, ever. Some of those who ask their MP for help will, no doubt, be delighted by the response, others not. However, the biggest impact on most constituents lives is through the legislative work of parliament - and the more undercover work of ministries and their statutory instruments. All of this is dominated by the idea of collective responsibility - the party decides and thenceforth thou shall toe the party line, whether you agree with it or not.

[Squelchy]

Odd that a vote on A.V is being conducted using the FPTP system.

[JeffG]

Odd that a vote on A.V is being conducted using the FPTP system.

Durr! There are only two candidates: Yes and No. So both systems would be equivalent. Though I suppose we could have the option of making Yes the first choice and No the second choice, or vice versa.

(Unless you meant the poll at the top of the page, in which case I agree we need to know the second choices of the "Don't give a monkey's" voters.)

[NWNREADER]

Durr! There are only two candidates: Yes and No. So both systems would be equivalent. Though I suppose we could have the option of making Yes the first choice and No the second choice, or vice versa.

(Unless you meant the poll at the top of the page, in which case I agree we need to know the second choices of the "Don't give a monkey's" voters.)

The problem with AV is someone may have only one candidate they wish to support: they do not have a desire to assist any other candidate to succeed. After all, who would a left wing Labour supporter have as their second choice if the alternatives were Conservative, UKIP, BNP, Monster Raving Looney, etc?

[user23]

The problem with AV is someone may have only one candidate they wish to support: they do not have a desire to assist any other candidate to succeed. After all, who would a left wing Labour supporter have as their second choice if the alternatives were Conservative, UKIP, BNP, Monster Raving Looney, etc?

Then they should only mark the paper once with their preferred candidate.

[NWNREADER]

Then they should only mark the paper once with their preferred candidate.

Which proves it is no longer '1 man 1 vote'?

[user23]

Which proves it is no longer '1 man 1 vote'?

It's never been "1 man 1 vote" given there's a percentage of the population that don't vote.

[NWNREADER]

It's never been "1 man 1 vote" given there's a percentage of the population that don't vote.

The choice not to vote does not mean the opportunity does not exist. Everyone who fits the criteria has one vote which they cast (or not). Under AV people can have more than one go at selecting the member.

[user23]

The choice not to vote does not mean the opportunity does not exist. Everyone who fits the criteria has one vote which they cast (or not). Under AV people can have more than one go at selecting the member.

Not so. Under FPTP I have two goes at selecting councillors for the ward I live in.

"1 Man 2 Votes"

[NWNREADER]

Not so. Under FPTP I have two goes at selecting councillors for the ward I live in.

"1 Man 2 Votes"

There are two seats, so you have one vote for each of them.

What colour is the fluff in your bellybutton?

[user23]

There are two seats, so you have one vote for each of them.

Indeed, so it's "1 Man 2 Votes" as I said.

[Andy Capp]

The problem with AV is someone may have only one candidate they wish to support: they do not have a desire to assist any other candidate to succeed. After all, who would a left wing Labour supporter have as their second choice if the alternatives were Conservative, UKIP, BNP, Monster Raving Looney, etc?

user23 has already pointed where you are in error: you don't have to vote for anyone you don't want to, but another thing to remember: you only get another choice if your preferred candidate come last and nobody polled over 50% of the vote. I would even as a Labour voter, prefer a Tory administration than a UKIP, BNP or MRLP one. AV allows me to express that opinion, but FPTP doesn't.

[NWNREADER]

user23 has already pointed where you are in error; you don't have to vote for anyone you don't want to, but another thing to remember: you only get another choice if your preferred candidate come last and nobody polled over 50% of the vote. I would as a Labour voter, however, prefer a Tory administration than a UKIP, BNP or MRLP one. AV allows me to express that opinion, but FPTP doesn't.

I don't do 'error'.

[Richard Garvie]

Not so. Under FPTP I have two goes at selecting councillors for the ward I live in.

"1 Man 2 Votes"

But AV would apply to general election ballots, not local (as yet)!!!