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> Immigration Crisis, getting what we deserve?
Petra
post Sep 2 2015, 06:53 PM
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Dear all,

What you dummkopf’s do not realise, that is those that object to Britain accepting more immigrants/ migrants/ refugees, is that we will accept them anyway. Germany is accepting 800,000, and some estimates say that will be every year, and once they are processed, then they are entitled to move around Europe freely (as part of European freedom of movement law). As far as I know, so that European countries can save face, they will refuse immigrants; however, accept them through the back door (i.e. through Germany). So the debate on whether we should accept immigrants or not is sterile. Most of those that went to Germany, or are going to Germany, plan to end up in Britain, as their main language or second language is English.

Governments are not stupid, they know how to navigate through their countries bigotry, xenophobia etc., by playing the media game for the benefit of the fickle public and press.

Yours,

Petra
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je suis Charlie
post Sep 2 2015, 07:12 PM
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QUOTE (Petra @ Sep 2 2015, 07:53 PM) *
Dear all,

What you dummkopf’s do not realise, that is those that object to Britain accepting more immigrants/ migrants/ refugees, is that we will accept them anyway. Germany is accepting 800,000, and some estimates say that will be every year, and once they are processed, then they are entitled to move around Europe freely (as part of European freedom of movement law). As far as I know, so that European countries can save face, they will refuse immigrants; however, accept them through the back door (i.e. through Germany). So the debate on whether we should accept immigrants or not is sterile. Most of those that went to Germany, or are going to Germany, plan to end up in Britain, as their main language or second language is English.

Governments are not stupid, they know how to navigate through their countries bigotry, xenophobia etc., by playing the media game for the benefit of the fickle public and press.

Yours,

Petra

So we leave Europe, at the earliest opportunity. Leave them to rot at the border. Let Germany keep them, part payment for two world wars.
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Simon Kirby
post Sep 2 2015, 07:22 PM
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QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Sep 2 2015, 07:45 PM) *
So, who is your god? Apart from Monty Don of course.

Mock me for a gardener if you like, but according to you this whole mess started with a dispute over not eating of the fruit whereof He told thee thou shouldst not eat, and it strikes me as rather petty not to have resolved that dispute by now.


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spartacus
post Sep 2 2015, 07:22 PM
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QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Sep 2 2015, 11:52 AM) *
You're making a distinction between "these people" (Syrian refugees) and other people, and I don't recognise the distinction, I just see people.

I've re-read the thread. I made no such distinction. That interpretation was entirely down to you. The ‘these people’ I was referring to would encompass the whole swarming mass of immigrants defecating all over Calais and it's approaches, whether from Syria or sub-Saharan Bongo M'bongoland. The Immigration Crisis this week is focussed on Syria but there's a whole United Nations in the jungles of Calais.

As for 'Are we getting what we deserve', the fact is we're getting far fewer of the current migration of people in actual numbers terms than Germany or many other EU countries, but we have a history of relatively 'mass immigration' in the past decades since the war and our tolerant society is getting a tad fed up with the squeeze that's taking place in certain regions and cities. Living cheek by jowl with people from other cultures isn't comfortable for many Brits (and you don't have to be Alf Garnett to feel that way)

I don't put the current mass movement down to Iraq Wars or other skirmishes specifically, I think the majority of migrants heading for British shores are beating a path for our country due to English being their second language.

I blame the David Livingstone's and other colonial missionary explorers for spreading the Word of God and The British Empire (along with our language) to The Four Corners of the Dark Continent. It's our distant past that's to blame rather than recent history and military interventions...


QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Sep 2 2015, 11:52 AM) *
....I just see people.



.......Dead people?
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Andy Capp
post Sep 2 2015, 08:15 PM
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QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Sep 2 2015, 11:44 AM) *
They are still one of the same; regardless of your opinion. Both words refer to the same deity.

So we are getting what we deserve!
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GMR
post Sep 2 2015, 08:32 PM
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QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Sep 2 2015, 09:15 PM) *
So we are getting what we deserve!


Are you talking to yourself again? wink.gif
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je suis Charlie
post Sep 2 2015, 08:56 PM
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He's certainly the only one listening to him, poor luv.
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On the edge
post Sep 2 2015, 09:07 PM
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If the spread of the English language is really the underlying reason why so many want to come here, wasn't it rather odd that they campaigned so hard for us to end the Empire. Silly letting that go really, and many claim Attlee was a good PM! Perhaps we should bring it back; it would solve the problem and stuff Europe at the same time.


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Andy Capp
post Sep 2 2015, 09:31 PM
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Language is one, but Germany is popular too, so it is not the only thing it seems. The main pull is our standard of living compared to theirs I would imagine. If the news is to be believed, many are 'asylum shopping'.

Even refugees are becoming picky it seems.
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Andy Capp
post Sep 3 2015, 09:24 AM
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QUOTE (spartacus @ Sep 2 2015, 08:22 PM) *
As for 'Are we getting what we deserve', the fact is we're getting far fewer of the current migration of people in actual numbers terms than Germany or many other EU countries, but we have a history of relatively 'mass immigration' in the past decades since the war and our tolerant society is getting a tad fed up with the squeeze that's taking place in certain regions and cities. Living cheek by jowl with people from other cultures isn't comfortable for many Brits (and you don't have to be Alf Garnett to feel that way)

I think my getting what we deserve question is being taken out of context. It was meant to be a comment on our recent foreign policy and how we have disturbed the balance in the Middle East, perhaps. Not whether we are taking our fair share; that is a different question.
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Berkshirelad
post Sep 3 2015, 10:02 AM
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QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Sep 1 2015, 08:40 PM) *
attitudes to Islam in the west has put back cultural integration by some margin.


Part of the problem, IMO, is the lack of cultural integration.

We have "Multiculturalism" which means no integration; instead series of enclaves of non-integrated peoples each doing their own thing and demanding parity.
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Berkshirelad
post Sep 3 2015, 10:11 AM
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QUOTE (Petra @ Sep 2 2015, 07:53 PM) *
Dear all,

What you dummkopf’s do not realise, that is those that object to Britain accepting more immigrants/ migrants/ refugees, is that we will accept them anyway. Germany is accepting 800,000, and some estimates say that will be every year, and once they are processed, then they are entitled to move around Europe freely (as part of European freedom of movement law). As far as I know, so that European countries can save face, they will refuse immigrants; however, accept them through the back door (i.e. through Germany). So the debate on whether we should accept immigrants or not is sterile. Most of those that went to Germany, or are going to Germany, plan to end up in Britain, as their main language or second language is English.

Governments are not stupid, they know how to navigate through their countries bigotry, xenophobia etc., by playing the media game for the benefit of the fickle public and press.

Yours,

Petra


I think you are conflating EU freedom of movement with the Schengen Treaty. Easy to do if you don't actually know what you are talking about.

Freedom of movement does not apply until citizenship of an EU state has been granted - it is not available to every migrant. As migrants, people are free to move around the Schengen area - which we are not a part of - once they have entered it. They have no such freedom for non-Schengen countries until they move from migrant status to citizen status.

Yes, Germany has said it will accept 800,000 migrants; but that is not the same as giving them German citizenship
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Andy Capp
post Sep 3 2015, 10:57 AM
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QUOTE (Berkshirelad @ Sep 3 2015, 11:11 AM) *
I think you are conflating EU freedom of movement with the Schengen Treaty. Easy to do if you don't actually know what you are talking about.

Freedom of movement does not apply until citizenship of an EU state has been granted - it is not available to every migrant. As migrants, people are free to move around the Schengen area - which we are not a part of - once they have entered it. They have no such freedom for non-Schengen countries until they move from migrant status to citizen status.

Yes, Germany has said it will accept 800,000 migrants; but that is not the same as giving them German citizenship

I think we are also conflating poor souls drowning at sea with young apparently healthy adults banging on the door of the EU borderer countries demanding a right of passage to a county of their preferred choice.
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On the edge
post Sep 3 2015, 12:24 PM
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QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Sep 3 2015, 11:57 AM) *
I think we are also conflating poor souls drowning at sea with young apparently healthy adults banging on the door of the EU borderer countries demanding a right of passage to a county of their preferred choice.


Difficult isn't it? A good number of those 'healthy adults' had equally dangerous journeys up to 'the front door'. In any event, they are only following the recommendation of Lord Tebbitt, who demanded that people without work should follow the advice of his father,who was unemployed in his healthy adolescence, but travelled around under his own steam 'till he got work. What's the difference?


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Andy Capp
post Sep 3 2015, 12:50 PM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Sep 3 2015, 01:24 PM) *
Difficult isn't it? A good number of those 'healthy adults' had equally dangerous journeys up to 'the front door'. In any event, they are only following the recommendation of Lord Tebbitt, who demanded that people without work should follow the advice of his father,who was unemployed in his healthy adolescence, but travelled around under his own steam 'till he got work. What's the difference?

One group are struggling to leave a war torn country (where the real help is needed), while another group have found their 'sanctuary' (secondary help is needed).

Opening the doors saying come in you poor things is not going to solve the issue. I also fear that if I continue with my argument I will end up sounding like Enoch Powell. If the numbers spouted are real, opening up the former eastern block to the west will be a drop compared to the amount the EU will see from the Middle East and all the social unrest that will certainly cause.
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GMR
post Sep 3 2015, 04:05 PM
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QUOTE (Berkshirelad @ Sep 3 2015, 11:11 AM) *
I think you are conflating EU freedom of movement with the Schengen Treaty. Easy to do if you don't actually know what you are talking about. Freedom of movement does not apply until citizenship of an EU state has been granted - it is not available to every migrant. As migrants, people are free to move around the Schengen area - which we are not a part of - once they have entered it. They have no such freedom for non-Schengen countries until they move from migrant status to citizen status. Yes, Germany has said it will accept 800,000 migrants; but that is not the same as giving them German citizenship





The end result will be a Germany citizenship.

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Andy Capp
post Sep 3 2015, 05:23 PM
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That's of course if the Germans follow through with it.
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GMR
post Sep 3 2015, 06:41 PM
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QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Sep 3 2015, 06:23 PM) *
That's of course if the Germans follow through with it.





I don't think they now have any choice after what they said.

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Andy Capp
post Sep 3 2015, 08:08 PM
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QUOTE (GMR @ Sep 3 2015, 07:41 PM) *
I don't think they now have any choice after what they said.

They never committed to 'talking' 800,000 (another Petra error), only that they expected it.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/aug/...arrivals-800000
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GMR
post Sep 3 2015, 08:51 PM
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QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Sep 3 2015, 09:08 PM) *
They never committed to 'talking' 800,000 (another Petra error), only that they expected it.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/aug/...arrivals-800000


Aren't you splitting hairs here? They will probably take over 800,000 at the end of the day.
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