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> Richard Garvie on petrol prices locally, Death Wish
Andy Capp
post May 27 2013, 09:50 PM
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QUOTE (user23 @ May 27 2013, 10:46 PM) *
The tweet linked to in post #18 does.


Doesn't.

QUOTE (user23 @ May 27 2013, 04:28 PM) *
Seems a bit strange, working for Tesco in Corby but promoting the need for an Asda in Newbury.


He said "For cheaper fuel prices, we need a supermarket fuel discounter such as ASDA or Morrisons. Without one, our prices will be dearer than #rdg"

The meaning takes on a slightly different meaning than your slightly distorted one when you see the entire sentence. Like I said, you would have done well to have posted the link at the time of your OP, thus saving the confusion.
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user23
post May 27 2013, 09:52 PM
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QUOTE (Andy Capp @ May 27 2013, 10:49 PM) *
...
He said:

Only difference between Newbury and Corby is Newbury does not have an ASDA.


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Andy Capp
post May 27 2013, 09:53 PM
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QUOTE (user23 @ May 27 2013, 10:52 PM) *
He said:

Only difference between Newbury and Corby is Newbury does not have an ASDA.

That isn't a promotion for an Asda, your straw man fallacy. I would not have posted an accusation of a straw man fallacy had you posted the link for post #23. Even though you edited the sentence for maximum effect to support your argument.
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user23
post May 27 2013, 09:58 PM
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QUOTE (Andy Capp @ May 27 2013, 10:53 PM) *
That isn't a promotion for an Asda, your straw man fallacy.
Sorry if you don't like it, I'm just quoting what he said, word for word and linking to the source.

Here's an idea. You should definitely mention a straw man in your reply.
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Andy Capp
post May 27 2013, 10:03 PM
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QUOTE (user23 @ May 27 2013, 10:58 PM) *
Sorry if you don't like it, I'm just quoting what he said, word for word and linking to the source.

Here's an idea. You should definitely mention a straw man in your reply.

Post the truth, and I won't need to, but you frequently twist the truth for your argument. Only one tweet makes any reference for needing a store like Asda or Morrisons, but that is only to get cheaper petrol. You edited his comment to make it look more than that.

But like I said, when I accused you of a straw man, it was with information at the time (we were talking about the Newbury Today article) and you didn't disclose your source, which you presumably went hunting for to find support for your post.


But back to the theme, nice to see an employee speak out when they see something wrong with their employer.
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user23
post May 27 2013, 10:22 PM
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QUOTE (Andy Capp @ May 27 2013, 11:03 PM) *
Post the truth, and I won't need to, but you frequently twist the truth for your argument. Only one tweet makes any reference for needing a store like Asda or Morrisons, but that is only to get cheaper petrol. You edited his comment to make it look more than that.

But like I said, when I accused you of a straw man, it was with information at the time (we were talking about the Newbury Today article) and you didn't disclose your source, which you presumably went hunting for to find support for your post.


But back to the theme, nice to see an employee speak out when they see something wrong with their employer.
All three tweets I posted mentioned Asda, I didn't edit the text in the original post and I linked to the source to validate the quotes. Sorry if you don't like what he said, I'm just the messenger.

Please be sure to include the words "straw man" in your reply.
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motormad
post May 27 2013, 10:37 PM
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QUOTE (Andy Capp @ May 27 2013, 10:33 PM) *

I use it when I see people doing it. People like you for instance who frequently distort people's posts to suit their argument.


The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version. This happen when it appeared that user23 had bent the story in the Newbury Today article, when in fact he was talking about something else. If he'd done that then there shouldn't have been any confusion.


Because you don't do that at all do you? These days I hardly bother to even make an "argument" because there are more important things in my life to worry about. Like friends. Or Pizza. Or you know, sunlight.

Plus the things you lot talk about are nearly always high-end council related nonsense, and unless you spend all your free-time (which I have less and less of these days) at council meetings and ballot votes and protest rallys, the average person (me for example) would have no idea what is going on in your little world.

Regardless of whether or not a so-called "straw man fallacy" was committed, it's a stupid phrase, and makes you sound like a [censored]. Not so much because you use it, but because you use it so often, it's like the kid who cried wolf.

I mean, jeez, a whole new page in a matter of hours.. arguing over what? Some guy did something, for whatever reason, and took a stand against his employer for the motorist who has to pay a lot for fuel.
And yes in Newbury we pay a lot for fuel
And his reasoning behind his actions, whether for political gain or for genuine good-of-the-people are largely irrelevant if the end result is the same.

I think there are too many Tescos in Thatcham and Newbury for a start,but that's just me .


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Andy Capp
post May 27 2013, 11:11 PM
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QUOTE (motormad @ May 27 2013, 11:37 PM) *
Because you don't do that at all do you?

Yes I do, you just need to spot it.

QUOTE (motormad @ May 27 2013, 11:37 PM) *
Regardless of whether or not a so-called "straw man fallacy" was committed, it's a stupid phrase, and makes you sound like a [censored]. Not so much because you use it, but because you use it so often, it's like the kid who cried wolf.

My use of it comes down to when people like you and others post questionable arguments; not my fault as such. I think it is important that people post accurate information, and I feel compelled to reply when I think they don't. I don't always get it right, and sometimes I am wrong with my own information, but as this is an open forum people are entitled to defend their point if they so wish.

QUOTE (motormad @ May 27 2013, 11:37 PM) *
I think there are too many Tescos in Thatcham and Newbury for a start,but that's just me .

I quite agree with you.
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Andy Capp
post May 27 2013, 11:16 PM
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QUOTE (user23 @ May 27 2013, 11:22 PM) *
All three tweets I posted mentioned Asda, I didn't edit the text in the original post and I linked to the source to validate the quotes. Sorry if you don't like what he said, I'm just the messenger.

It is not a case of not liking what he said, it is just a pity that you didn't include the evidence at the time of your OP. Also, you did edit the text buy omitting portions of the sentence. The way you edited the sentence gave a different complexion. Like I said all ready, had you posted the link in post #23, I would not have called you out.

QUOTE (user23 @ May 27 2013, 11:22 PM) *
Please be sure to include the words "straw man" in your reply.

I will if you employ it.
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newres
post May 28 2013, 05:23 AM
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QUOTE (Andy Capp @ May 27 2013, 10:53 PM) *
That isn't a promotion for an Asda, your straw man fallacy. I would not have posted an accusation of a straw man fallacy had you posted the link for post #23. Even though you edited the sentence for maximum effect to support your argument.

Quite. Not only that but he interpreted very literally the statements which anybody but someone on the outer edge of he autistic spectrum would see was related only to petrol prices and not at all a desire to see another supermarket in Newbury.
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newres
post May 28 2013, 06:53 AM
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Error.
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blackdog
post May 28 2013, 11:54 AM
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QUOTE (user23 @ May 27 2013, 10:52 PM) *
He said:

Only difference between Newbury and Corby is Newbury does not have an ASDA.

Which is a statement that could be read to mean that Newbury is much better than Corby because it doesn't have an Asda.
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NWNREADER
post May 28 2013, 03:15 PM
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According to my limited understanding, the 'straw man' statement should only be made by the victim. Here we have a 3rd party, maybe with no connection to the originator, making the 'fallacy' claim on his behalf. Maybe RG does wish there was a competitor store, but got only as close as he dare to saying so.....
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Richard Garvie
post May 28 2013, 03:25 PM
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QUOTE (NWNREADER @ May 28 2013, 03:15 PM) *
According to my limited understanding, the 'straw man' statement should only be made by the victim. Here we have a 3rd party, maybe with no connection to the originator, making the 'fallacy' claim on his behalf. Maybe RG does wish there was a competitor store, but got only as close as he dare to saying so.....


I was never asked if I would support an ASDA opening in Newbury, but my position on that would be if a suitable site could be found, let's do it. If it saves us up to 8p a litre on fuel, I'd certainly support it.

I've heard nothing back from head office about my letter, and will inform you if I do. I just feel that Tesco should be leading the way to ensure it's customers are dealt with in a fair manner. If that can't be achieved, I'll have no option but to quit. I put doing the right thing before loyalty any day of the week, and whilst that may be the wrong attitude to have in some eyes, at least the community can see that I will always strive to do what is in their interest over my own.
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Andy Capp
post May 28 2013, 04:05 PM
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QUOTE (NWNREADER @ May 28 2013, 04:15 PM) *
According to my limited understanding, the 'straw man' statement should only be made by the victim. Here we have a 3rd party, maybe with no connection to the originator, making the 'fallacy' claim on his behalf. Maybe RG does wish there was a competitor store, but got only as close as he dare to saying so.....

A false argument is a false argument regardless of who made it, or who is intended to hear it. However, it is a mute point because user23 clarified his point with subsequent evidence. My use was on his original post, although he had to have several goes before he hit the nail more or less on the head, as it were.

People like user23 (and others) sometimes mischievously twists arguments to make people look worse than they are, or to give a false impressions or to make the argument easier to 'attack'. It is true that RG would like to see greater competition in the fuel delivery business, but, I see it that he would rather that his employer take the lead so that an Asda wouldn't be so necessary. That is how it looked in NewburyToday story, any rate.

Just to clarify, RG is advocating a fuel discounter, not necessarily just an Asda, which is what user23 originally stated. After all, having an Asda doesn't necessarily mean getting a fuel station with it, does it?

Anyway, whatever the issue, where I will agree with user23's point in principle, is that RG is on a sticky wicket with his current employer.
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NWNREADER
post May 28 2013, 05:03 PM
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I still don't see how you can 'know' what RG intended. You may be correct, but at best you only believe you know what he really means.
The politico in RG will usually mean he leaves room for adjustment, as with all such folk,
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Andy Capp
post May 28 2013, 05:14 PM
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QUOTE (NWNREADER @ May 28 2013, 06:03 PM) *
I still don't see how you can 'know' what RG intended. You may be correct, but at best you only believe you know what he really means. The politico in RG will usually mean he leaves room for adjustment, as with all such folk,

Fair enough.
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pbonnay
post May 28 2013, 07:10 PM
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QUOTE (Richard Garvie @ May 28 2013, 04:25 PM) *
... I just feel that Tesco should be leading the way to ensure it's customers are dealt with in a fair manner. If that can't be achieved, I'll have no option but to quit.


Some large organisations have a "whistle-blower" phone number that staff can use to report suspected wrong doing. Going to the press is not necessarily the only option.

Some info here:

https://www.gov.uk/whistleblowing/how-to-blow-the-whistle
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dannyboy
post May 29 2013, 09:33 AM
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QUOTE (Andy Capp @ May 28 2013, 05:05 PM) *
Anyway, whatever the issue, where I will agree with user23's point in principle, is that RG is on a sticky wicket with his current employer.

Not going to look good on the CV is it.
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motormad
post May 29 2013, 10:23 AM
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QUOTE (pbonnay @ May 28 2013, 08:10 PM) *
Some large organisations have a "whistle-blower" phone number that staff can use to report suspected wrong doing. Going to the press is not necessarily the only option.

Some info here:

https://www.gov.uk/whistleblowing/how-to-blow-the-whistle


It is however the most effective option for grabbing people's attention.

In regards to employment;

https://www.gov.uk/whistleblowing/dismissal...-whistleblowing

Types of whistleblowing eligible for protection

These are called ‘qualifying disclosures’. They include when someone reports:

that someone’s health and safety is in danger
damage to the environment
a criminal offence
that the company isn’t obeying the law (like not having the right insurance)
that someone’s covering up wrongdoing


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