Where is the social media outcry?, I wouldn't bet on it... Options

[Andy Capp]

No one ia arguing with that. Would you want the country full of guardiansta types though each trying to be better than the other in a constant battle to prove they are at the top of the snowflake tree? Personally I think I wouldn't. Perhaps the press is not as balanced as it should be. Some TV networks try and make up for it though such as the BBC and C4.

I think you are building a straw man argument there. Just because one complains about a spiteful and antagonistic press, doesn't mean that the same person wishes a misty white puffy cloud existence either. What I would prefer is on one hand, people would just be more considerate and on the other hand people weren't so easily offended.

If that can't happen, I'd like to see people become more open-minded. That people would scrutinise what they see and hear more. It is doing that which has made the species as successful as it is; however, I am starting to see some kind of dumbing down occurring.

[Simon Kirby]

The Rupert Murdoch owned press? Why do his papers sell more than the guardians of the world? If people didn't want to read a lot of the sensationist garbage in these red tops they wouldn't. They buy them because they don't want to read about how JC is saving the labour party (LOL) but they do want ro read about some terrorist thats living in the UK on benefits that they contribute towards. And it makes them cross and they vote brexit.

Yes, but why the conflation of Brexit with anti-Islamic propaganda? The two things have nothing directly in common so to segue from one to the other is curious.

[TallDarkAndHands...]

Yes, but why the conflation of Brexit with anti-Islamic propaganda? The two things have nothing directly in common so to segue from one to the other is curious.

You are being facetious. You well know that snowflakes link brexit and islamophobia. Its a bit like saying you like Trump and are a remainer. They dont have anything to do with one another but ive not met a remainer who is pro trump? Have you?

[Turin Machine]

Yes, but why the conflation of Brexit with anti-Islamic propaganda? The two things have nothing directly in common so to segue from one to the other is curious.

Its going to rain tomorrow, BREXIT!! (well, why not?)

[Andy Capp]

You are being facetious. You well know that snowflakes link brexit and islamophobia. Its a bit like saying you like Trump and are a remainer. They dont have anything to do with one another but ive not met a remainer who is pro trump? Have you?

I'm a Brexit and am 'anti-Trump'! Mind you, my Brexit vote had next to nothing to do with immigration.


Interesting passage discussing the merits of 'snowflake':

"So if the right are calling the left snowflakes for being liberal, and the left are calling the right snowflakes for expressing offence, and the old are calling the young snowflakes for being too thin-skinned, and the young are pointing out that the older generation seem to be the most offended by what they’re doing, then the only winner is the phrase itself. It’s particularly effective given that there’s really no comeback to it: in calling someone a snowflake, you are not just shutting down their opinion, but telling them off for being offended that you are doing so. And if you, the snowflake, are offended, you are simply proving that you’re a snowflake. It’s a handcuff of an insult and nobody has the key."

I'm also led to believe it was a phrase originally used to describe people who were against the abolition of slavery!

[On the edge]

The biggest concern I had voting for Brexit was that the Country doesn't seem to have kept the intellectual capability or entrepreneurial skills to survive successfully on its own. That concern hasn't gone away.

[Andy Capp]

The biggest concern I had voting for Brexit was that the Country doesn't seem to have kept the intellectual capability or entrepreneurial skills to survive successfully on its own. That concern hasn't gone away.

I think it still has all those and even if it didn't, I don't see how Brexit changes anything.

[On the edge]

I think it still has all those and even if it didn't, I don't see how Brexit changes anything.

It doesn't change it at all, simply the outcome.

I firmly believe that if we'd stayed in Europe, we would have become the new Eastonia, or Greece to Germany's Rome. In other words a cheap labour, unskilled economy; trailer trash writ large. We have a chance to escape that fate, but only if our 'middle class' stop their retrospective wailing and get on with the job of managing us to keep up with World economics. Our acknowledged very poorly trained and educated management could well sink us.

[Rdg]

The reason brexit and islamophobia have become linked seems to be due to the whole campaigning tactic (full of factual inaccuracies) used by some of -

Europe's SE Border is being inundated by refugees form Islamic countries, as some muslims are terrorists it therefore must be true some of the refugees are terrorists, Europe has no internal borders checks and everyone wants to come to the uK which is paved with gold, therefore calais will fill with islamic refugees including terrorists and the EU will make us take some and we are bound to therefore be forced to take terrorists by the Eu and even if not we are full up anyway and Rotheram proves all muslims are nasty people we don't want so let's leave the EU and "take control of our borders" and all will be lovely and shiny and we will live happily ever after.

I won't even begin to point out the factual and logical fallacies other than to point out if the government actually gave a tosh about immigration and their 100k target they might not have let in 160k non eu immigrants last year that we have always had 100% control over

[je suis Charlie]

I think that's a very different reason, there isn't any more islamaphobia around, its just that now people feel more able to let it be known. The debate opened up the whole cannaworms so people can talk now without bein call ed racist, or Nazi!! very simple, FGM, arranged marriage, 'honor killin, burning prisoners alive in metal cages, driving tanks over lines of prisoners, captured women used as sex slaves, bombs in our underground, bombs on our buses, hackin the head off young solder boys in a London st. Kinda gives a whole religion a bad press. Stop doing that and people's might just start to come around..Not too difficult is it. Their people not luvvied up saints.

[Rdg]

I think that's a very different reason, there isn't any more islamaphobia around, its just that now people feel more able to let it be known. The debate opened up the whole cannaworms so people can talk now without bein call ed racist, or Nazi!! very simple, FGM, arranged marriage, 'honor killin, burning prisoners alive in metal cages, driving tanks over lines of prisoners, captured women used as sex slaves, bombs in our underground, bombs on our buses, hackin the head off young solder boys in a London st. Kinda gives a whole religion a bad press. Stop doing that and people's might just start to come around..Not too difficult is it. Their people not luvvied up saints.

I don't condone any of that but so called christians do pretty much the same and we don't brand all christians the same way - I don't remember a clamour to stop all Roman catholics entering the country when the IRA did the hyde park or manchester bombings - also FGM is related to location not strictly religion - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_vie...ital_mutilation, if you want a christian version of IS look up Lords resistance Army in Uganda/Congo.

Note I am not saying that we must respect cultural norms or any bull like that - I am saying religions of all types are used by nutters/sadists to justify their actions (I include the US far right in that group as well)

[Andy Capp]

I speak as having a ski slope of liberal opinion, but even I find it uncomfortable being in the company of strangers who distrust me as being a nonbeliever. I once had to visit the Apple Store in the East End of London and I found myself being on a 'heightened state of alert'.

[Rdg]

I speak as having a ski slope of liberal opinion, but even I find it uncomfortable being in the company of strangers who distrust me as being a nonbeliever. I once had to visit the Apple Store in the East End of London and I found myself being on a 'heightened state of alert'.

I am always on a heightened state of alert when around serious believers of any variety - otherwise I am likely to say something very insensitive and inflamatory

[On the edge]

I don't condone any of that but so called christians do pretty much the same and we don't brand all christians the same way - I don't remember a clamour to stop all Roman catholics entering the country when the IRA did the hyde park or manchester bombings - also FGM is related to location not strictly religion - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_vie...ital_mutilation, if you want a christian version of IS look up Lords resistance Army in Uganda/Congo.

Note I am not saying that we must respect cultural norms or any bull like that - I am saying religions of all types are used by nutters/sadists to justify their actions (I include the US far right in that group as well)

Sad really. If you really analysed it, religion isn't the only reason for vile behaviours. These generally occur from perverted thinking by ill educated people. Communists, national socialists, facists, etc.etc.etc, all of whom were atheist, or agnostic at best. You'll find nutters and sadists in every human society. You'll also find perverted propoganda, which makes it flourish.

[Rdg]

Sad really. If you really analysed it, religion isn't the only reason for vile behaviours. These generally occur from perverted thinking by ill educated people. Communists, national socialists, facists, etc.etc.etc, all of whom were atheist, or agnostic at best. You'll find nutters and sadists in every human society. You'll also find perverted propoganda, which makes it flourish.

Exactly my point - people look at IS and say "all muslims are vile" rather than "look there are a bunch of vile human beings using a a forced interpretation of a religion to try and justify their actions". Hence we end up with the type of propaganda used during Brexit and leading to the kind of comments like this on the nwn Brexit story

You tories have said enough **** put this country in **** over the last 40 years. Leaving Europe, was not just about making money or business. Leavers voted to leave the eu, course billions of pounds being paid into it and we get no help. Plus inmirgrates that should not be in this country in the first place. Workers yes who put back in to the communities. But those who want everything handed to them on a silver platter. And criminals who kill and rape, and rob people. Soon as they come over to the uk, so thanks to the British gov who screwed the British people over for 40 years.

[blackdog]

The impartial view of the Guardian even extends to the TV! Here's the word on last night's BBC drama SS GB,

"Part of me wonders if, in adapting this 1978 novel now, the BBC is unwittingly supplying Brexit propaganda. SS-GB may seem to be counterfactual history but it serves, too, as allegory of the all-too-real German domination Theresa May will trigger article 50 to escape."

Excuse me while I go and giggle behind the sofa!

Surprised at the Guardian stance on this - surely it is the 'all-too-real right wing domination Brexit has triggered'.

[TallDarkAndHands...]

Surprised at the Guardian stance on this - surely it is the 'all-too-real right wing domination Brexit has triggered'.

I think the red tops may have a field day with this...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39045923

1 million? WTF? Sorry but this is why people get angry (with the caveat that this was the daily mail... If true though we have effectively given a terrorist 1 million pounds of tax payer money). And I dread to think how he spent it....

[TallDarkAndHands...]

It doesn't change it at all, simply the outcome.

I firmly believe that if we'd stayed in Europe, we would have become the new Eastonia, or Greece to Germany's Rome. In other words a cheap labour, unskilled economy; trailer trash writ large. We have a chance to escape that fate, but only if our 'middle class' stop their retrospective wailing and get on with the job of managing us to keep up with World economics. Our acknowledged very poorly trained and educated management could well sink us.

I am proud to work for a company that I sat on the steering committee of to select a new ERP system. We could have selected a nice fully established product that lots of people have implemented before. Instead we went for the bleeding edge ERP system of Dynamics 365 for Operations in the Azure cloud. I'm just thankful that some CEOs have vision. I'm also arranging for a graduate trainee program with the assistance of helpful bosses to get people on the road to a successful future. I used to work for a horrible company. So glad I left and now wake in the morning looking forward to work.

All I am saying is that we can all do better and encourage people. You just need to leave the job you are in if you are unhappy. You may win. You may lose. But you can spend years and years at a job that is unfullfilling and not realise you are wasting the best years of your life. I did.

[On the edge]

I am proud to work for a company that I sat on the steering committee of to select a new ERP system. We could have selected a nice fully established product that lots of people have implemented before. Instead we went for the bleeding edge ERP system of Dynamics 365 for Operations in the Azure cloud. I'm just thankful that some CEOs have vision. I'm also arranging for a graduate trainee program with the assistance of helpful bosses to get people on the road to a successful future. I used to work for a horrible company. So glad I left and now wake in the morning looking forward to work.

All I am saying is that we can all do better and encourage people. You just need to leave the job you are in if you are unhappy. You may win. You may lose. But you can spend years and years at a job that is unfullfilling and not realise you are wasting the best years of your life. I did.

Fortunate indeed. Sadly, life isn't quite so straightforward for most individuals and the opportunities to jump are becoming fewer. The interesting biut here is the 'horrible company' you previously worked for. Why was it so and what did you do to effect change? That's the malaise with UK managements today.

[TallDarkAndHands...]

Fortunate indeed. Sadly, life isn't quite so straightforward for most individuals and the opportunities to jump are becoming fewer. The interesting biut here is the 'horrible company' you previously worked for. Why was it so and what did you do to effect change? That's the malaise with UK managements today.

It was a lovely company taken over and destroyed by crapita. You can't change a company like crapita from within.