A34 speed limit petition Options

[On the edge]

Part of the problem is that it is a hilly section of road, hgvs (bless 'em) need to maintain their rolling momentum and I see them constantly pulling out into the second lane to overtake slower traffic seemingly at the last moment. No problem with that, however when you combine this with drivers with mobiles, low attention spans, low experience, or indeed with a plenitude of distractions (like kids in the backseat) you create a 'perfect storm's scenario. A partial solution would be a third or slow traffic lane on these sections. Get it in France, works.

There might be something in that, but I'm not sure France is a particularly good example. 2013 results for fatalities on the road during that year:-

Per 100,000 population - UK 2.9, France 5.1
Per 100,000 vehicles - UK 5.1, France 7.6
Per 1 billion Km - UK 3.6, France 5.8

Total fatalities UK 1827, France 3268. WHO from Wikipedia.

[DereckT]

I would suggest its standards not speed which is the more relevant factor here. Short of laying down speed humps or adding chicanes, a poor driver is not always deterred by cameras etc.

[Simon Kirby]

I would suggest its standards not speed which is the more relevant factor here. Short of laying down speed humps or adding chicanes, a poor driver is not always deterred by cameras etc.

I can't see how driving standards on that section of road can be significantly different from standards generally, so if the accident rate is significantly higher than what would normally be expected for that class of road then the problem lies with the road - bends, width, hills, length of accelerations lanes, etc.

[DereckT]

I can't see how driving standards on that section of road can be significantly different from standards generally, so if the accident rate is significantly higher than what would normally be expected for that class of road then the problem lies with the road - bends, width, hills, length of accelerations lanes, etc.

You make a good and logical point. I would reply that the standard needed to drive in a straight line on relatively uncrowded road with other traffic at a similar speed is less than that needed to anticipate sometimes dramatic changes in visibility, speed and conditions. Having driven the A34 Newbury to Oxford for many years, the most obvious problem was always drivers being too close to each other, thus not having the time to react. What was also very amusing was on the days I rode my (ex) Police motorbike with my white helmet, standards around me raised considerably !

[blackdog]

I would suggest its standards not speed which is the more relevant factor here. Short of laying down speed humps or adding chicanes, a poor driver is not always deterred by cameras etc.

Whereas I would suggest that the failure of standards here is largely down to driving too fast for the prevailing traffic conditions and/or ill-judged overtaking manoevres (undertaking etc). If drivers won't slow themselves when the conditions warrant it then a logical solution is to enforce lower speed limits (eg using average speed cameras). Sadly this will impact on all traffic - even in the quieter periods when 70 might be a reasonable rate.

From what I have experienced in ASC zones in motorway roadworks the system not only slows speeds but also reduces naff overtaking and, where it still happens it happens more safely.

[Simon Kirby]

You make a good and logical point. I would reply that the standard needed to drive in a straight line on relatively uncrowded road with other traffic at a similar speed is less than that needed to anticipate sometimes dramatic changes in visibility, speed and conditions. Having driven the A34 Newbury to Oxford for many years, the most obvious problem was always drivers being too close to each other, thus not having the time to react. What was also very amusing was on the days I rode my (ex) Police motorbike with my white helmet, standards around me raised considerably !

I see what you mean - yes, I agree, it is poor driving that is causing the accidents, but the way to improve what I assume is an unacceptably high accident rate is either to improve the design of the road, which is the more effective method though long-term and expensive, or else to slow the traffic down, which isn't entirely effective and creates its own problems, though it is quick, simple, and cheap.

On that assumption - it's not clear to me that this argument has been made out that the road is actually less safe than any comparable length of road. I am very aware of the history of tragedies on the road and my anecdotal experience is that the acceleration lanes are murderously short, but road accidents are always subject to the statistics of small numbers and the accident rate is not necessarily significantly high and it may just be that there has been a random spate of accidents and that the danger of the road has entered the local popular consciousness. I sincerely hope my comments are not insensitive and I recognise that this is an appallingly difficult subject for anyone directly involved and I'm not at all dismissing the concern which is wholly appropriate, but I would like to see a rigorous comparison of the accident rate with that of a comparable length of road and see whether statistically the A34 accident rate is anomalous or not - and to be honest I'd be appalled if such analysis wasn't routinely rolled for every stretch of road in the UK and improvements applied when the statistics called for it.

[Biker1]

Interesting map here.
A34 in thin green.
Or you can have a play with this.
Select say the last 5 years and filter to "fatal".
I wonder how far down the list the A34 is on a list of "Britain's most dangerous roads"?
My attempts at Google to find out only result in the "Top 10" of which the A34 is not part.
In fact very few (if any) dual carriageway roads in the lists.

[On the edge]

Interesting map here.
A34 in thin green.
Or you can have a play with this.
Select say the last 5 years and filter to "fatal".
I wonder how far down the list the A34 is on a list of "Britain's most dangerous roads"?
My attempts at Google to find out only result in the "Top 10" of which the A34 is not part.
In fact very few (if any) dual carriageway roads in the lists.

That's rather interesting isn't it? There should be some pointers in that lot.

[spartacus]

So according to that Road Safety Foundation website the A34 is green and therefore classified as under ’Low Risk (safest) roads’ and the A338 between Wantage and the M4 is orange so is classified under ‘Medium risk roads’. There you have it. Not dangerous

[Andy Capp]

So according to that Road Safety Foundation website the A34 is green and therefore classified as under ’Low Risk (safest) roads’ and the A338 between Wantage and the M4 is orange so is classified under ‘Medium risk roads’. There you have it. Not dangerous

It would be interesting to see if that is calculated for the entire length. The problem is a specific few miles north of Chieveley, where as the stretch south of Newbury seems fairly benign.

[Simon Kirby]

It would be interesting to see if that is calculated for the entire length. The problem is a specific few miles north of Chieveley, where as the stretch south of Newbury seems fairly benign.

Quite. I don't think we quite have the evidence that the A34 really does have accident black-spots, but the map isn't evidence that it doesn't.

[On the edge]

I couldn't get the search to work in Biker's other link through my pad, but it looks as if that one would throw up indicators for the exact incident locations. It might well give the result people are looking for; vis A34 is no more dangerous than many other roads, apart from the stretch under discussion.

[Biker1]

I couldn't get the search to work in Biker's other link through my pad, but it looks as if that one would throw up indicators for the exact incident locations.

It takes some time to load data OTE.
Zoom in to where you want to look, add your fitters, search and then sit back and wait a while!!
(Don't move the map while it loads or the loading will re-start).

[Biker1]

Here is a prime example of the real problems faced when on the roads, A34 or any other.
19 years old, 100mph, no insurance and could easily have caused a crash as bad or worse that the one that has raised this discussion.
Fined a mere £330 and a short ban.

[On the edge]

It takes some time to load data OTE.
Zoom in to where you want to look, add your fitters, search and then sit back and wait a while!!
(Don't move the map while it loads or the loading will re-start).

Thanks for that. It's quite interesting to say the least.

[On the edge]

Here is a prime example of the real problems faced when on the roads, A34 or any other.
19 years old, 100mph, no insurance and could easily have caused a crash as bad or worse that the one that has raised this discussion.
Fined a mere £330 and a short ban.

Our legal system isn't good at working out priorities. Centred as it is on the protection of class and property.

[On the edge]

Here is a prime example of the real problems faced when on the roads, A34 or any other.
19 years old, 100mph, no insurance and could easily have caused a crash as bad or worse that the one that has raised this discussion.
Fined a mere £330 and a short ban.

Our legal system isn't good at working out priorities. Centred as it is on the protection of class and property.

[Turin Machine]

There might be something in that, but I'm not sure France is a particularly good example. 2013 results for fatalities on the road during that year:-

Per 100,000 population - UK 2.9, France 5.1
Per 100,000 vehicles - UK 5.1, France 7.6
Per 1 billion Km - UK 3.6, France 5.8

Total fatalities UK 1827, France 3268. WHO from Wikipedia.

Ah, but, old chap. That's entirely down to the standard of the driving, not the roads. Interesting that a few years ago the French government launched a road safety campaign in which they asked drivers to behave on the roads more like the English!

[je suis Charlie]

Like this you mean?


http://www.thelocal.fr/20160316/french-dri...us-at-the-wheel

Lol

[On the edge]

Ah, but, old chap. That's entirely down to the standard of the driving, not the roads. Interesting that a few years ago the French government launched a road safety campaign in which they asked drivers to behave on the roads more like the English!

Which would all tend to suggest that whatever we spend on infrastructure improvement wouldn't make much difference to safety at least. So, given the time an investigation and then the design and construction of a physical solution will take, we might as well put the money to better use trying to speed the imminent introduction of driverless vehicles.