What effect will police budget cuts have in West Berks Options

[Richard Garvie]

With the cuts already allocated and now this further review possibly leading to a removal of certain overtime (often compulsory), what effect do you think it will have on policing in West Berks and crime figures?

I think efficiency is good, but I have to admit that I am seriously concerned that these changes could lead to crime rates going up / detection rates going down.

[NWNREADER]

With the cuts already allocated and now this further review possibly leading to a removal of certain overtime (often compulsory), what effect do you think it will have on policing in West Berks and crime figures?

I think efficiency is good, but I have to admit that I am seriously concerned that these changes could lead to crime rates going up / detection rates going down.

What do you know about policing, Richard? Let alone W Berkshire?

[Andy Capp]

There was arguments that overtime rates are archaic (much money for doing not a lot).

[NWNREADER]

There was arguments that overtime rates are archaic (much money for doing not a lot).

Some of the headline comments were very specific, not the general situation.

The bonuses are wrong - as they are for most occupations.

[Bofem]

With the cuts already allocated and now this further review possibly leading to a removal of certain overtime (often compulsory), what effect do you think it will have on policing in West Berks and crime figures?

I think efficiency is good, but I have to admit that I am seriously concerned that these changes could lead to crime rates going up / detection rates going down.

Hmmm... Crime's gone up 20% in West Berks since 2001, when we had the highest number of police.

Y'know, they lost £5m in the Icelandic bank thingy, and have just spent £2m on upgrading the cells at Abingdon. The Chief Constable's on £168k a year and the employer pension contribution is 24% of salary.

But to answer your question, I fear for our 24 hour garages. Without overtime, I can't see them being able to stock up on Jaffa Cakes any more

[blackdog]

With the cuts already allocated and now this further review possibly leading to a removal of certain overtime (often compulsory), what effect do you think it will have on policing in West Berks and crime figures?

I think efficiency is good, but I have to admit that I am seriously concerned that these changes could lead to crime rates going up / detection rates going down.

Removal of the bonuses etc as proposed will only save a small fraction of the overall cuts. So their main effect will be to p**s off the police, especially the 40% of them that will be adversely affected. These are, supposedly, those working 9 to 5 on office duties. If the proposals are followed in full the police we see, the ones on the street, will actually get more cash.

The remaining 90% or so of the cuts will have a far greater effect and remove thousands of police.

The Conservatives, the party of law and order. Not on recent evidence, Labour fit that title far better.

[Richard Garvie]

I know that our police are often criticised on here, and I'm all for back room efficiencies etc. But if we suddenly scrap police overtime, that will have a massive effect on crime. If a police officer makes an arrest near the end of their shift, they have to stop on and complete the paperwork. Not their choice, but if overtime is significantly axed, they would then have to spend a few hours on that paper work when they arrive for their next shift. So rather than getting straight onto something else, these officers would be stuck in the office sorting something out from a previous shift. You then have the issue of people not being charged until that paperwork is done, so will that lead to overcrowding in cells? Or if the suspects are all released on bail, what if they try and influence witnesses before they are charged or whatever else.

I'm no expert on policing, but these proposals do not exactly fill anyone with confidence. Unless you are trying to cut money spent on the police that is.

[Bloggo]

I know that our police are often criticised on here, and I'm all for back room efficiencies etc. But if we suddenly scrap police overtime, that will have a massive effect on crime.

Not all overtime will be scrapped and that which is won't be sudden.
Shouldn't you have said "MAY have a massive effect on crime"?

If a police officer makes an arrest near the end of their shift, they have to stop on and complete the paperwork. Not their choice, but if overtime is significantly axed, they would then have to spend a few hours on that paper work when they arrive for their next shift. So rather than getting straight onto something else, these officers would be stuck in the office sorting something out from a previous shift.

Do you know this for a fact or is it speculation?

You then have the issue of people not being charged until that paperwork is done, so will that lead to overcrowding in cells?

Can't say that this would worry me, even the crims need to be inconvenienced like the rest of us.

Or if the suspects are all released on bail, what if they try and influence witnesses before they are charged or whatever else.

Would they not be doing this already?

I'm no expert on policing,

However you are not adverse to talking like you are.

but these proposals do not exactly fill anyone with confidence. Unless you are trying to cut money spent on the police that is.

I think that is the intention.

[ossy1]

But to answer your question, I fear for our 24 hour garages. Without overtime, I can't see them being able to stock up on Jaffa Cakes any more

Stupid!!! Don't you know we eat donuts not jaffa cakes!!!!


QUOTE
If a police officer makes an arrest near the end of their shift, they have to stop on and complete the paperwork. Not their choice, but if overtime is significantly axed, they would then have to spend a few hours on that paper work when they arrive for their next shift. So rather than getting straight onto something else, these officers would be stuck in the office sorting something out from a previous shift.

Do you know this for a fact or is it speculation?
This is a fact and happens already even with overtime.

I think some need to actually need to read the report though, overtime is not being scrapped. It is impossible to police without a certain amount of overtime. The rates at which it is being paid have been recommended for change.

My concern that some 9-5 roles (back office as some say) are actually very important ( domestic violence, Intelligence, training, probationer training) and officers wont actually apply to these posts if they can earn more working shifts. The other issue is this, I dont work after 8pm because of childcare but I do exactly the same job as the person next to me that works until midnight so really is it fair??

p.s sorry I dont know how to lift quotes from other peoples posts.

[NWNREADER]

Strange how things come around....

Pre 1972 all police overtime was for 'time off'. The service was grinding to a halt because no-one could take the time accrued off.
Then payment was introduced, and staff were more or less expected to take payment instead of time off. No more overtime was being worked, but the method of compensation changed. Indeed, as now, much overtime was worked but not claimed. 'Working for The Queen'.
Then the costs came under the microscope, and officers were allowed to take time off, but not payment.

Don't bang on about the system because of the headline 'bad examples'. I know many police officers and staff who do not claim at all. Mishandled changes could lead to them choosing to claim so skewing the outcome.

Providing a 24/7/52 service to 100% effeciency 100% of the time is a complex issue. If Govt are willing to make decisions about what need not be done - at all or as promptly - then they also take accountability. No more 'a matter for Chief Constables'. The extra roles Police have taken on over the years - Domestic Violence, Anti-Terrorism, 'Hate Crime' etc - have drawn officers form patrol duties. Despite increases in numbers the patrol strength diminishes and the public deserve clarification.

Richard will be on quicksand if he dives into this topic without a good briefing. With nigh on 80% of policing costs being labour, and not many pencil chewers, tasking will change as a result of reduced budget. Even the Winsor changes will not have a huge impact on costs. Chief officers may well say 'front line policing' (whatever that really is) will not change, but you cannot get a quart out of a pint pot.

[spartacus]

p.s sorry I dont know how to lift quotes from other peoples posts.

(Just press the <QUOTE> tab that's below everyone's posts. You can click multiple 'Quotes' if there's a string of things you want to disagree with. When you click your tab for <Add Reply> you can just delete the bits of the quote and leave the pertinent points)

[Richard Garvie]

I'm just concerned at what the changes will mean.

[Bloggo]

I'm just concerned at what the changes will mean.

Me too but I prefer not to make assumptions and publish those as facts.

[NWNREADER]

I'm just concerned at what the changes will mean.

Not enthused that some may be good?

'Interested' would be a better word.
Not pedantry, as the interest would lead to understanding of the elements that are good and the elements that are not so that an overall view can be taken. Thus a good leader would be able to guide a positive path through the claggiest mire.

[Bloggo]

Not enthused that some may be good?

'Interested' would be a better word.
Not pedantry, as the interest would lead to understanding of the elements that are good and the elements that are not so that an overall view can be taken. Thus a good leader would be able to guide a positive path through the claggiest mire.

Not if you wanted to "spin" a negative inference.

[NWNREADER]

Not if you wanted to "spin" a negative inference.

Why on earth would anyone want to do that?

[Bloggo]

Why on earth would anyone want to do that?

Yes, silly me.