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> Cheap labour post Brexit
TallDarkAndHands...
post Oct 18 2017, 06:16 PM
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QUOTE (newres @ Oct 18 2017, 12:44 PM) *
Without wishing to stereotype, judging by your views you won't be around in 20 years to find out whether you were right! wink.gif

Unemployment today at its lowest for 40 years. Where are we going to get 2m people from to replace the EU citizens?


Its ok. 3.6 million EU nationals are here. 2.1 million work. That means 1.5 million dont. If they all leave the housing crisis is solved!!! Eureka.

https://fullfact.org/immigration/eu-citizens-living-uk/

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SirWilliam
post Oct 18 2017, 07:03 PM
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QUOTE (newres @ Oct 18 2017, 07:01 PM) *
Do you have statistics on the numbers of these? Every European I come across is as described above by the elderly Sir William - hard working. There is an enormous benefit to the country in taxes from having them here. Think you've been drinking again.


Not a total benefit , yes they pay tax but they also send an element of their income back home which in turn is spent there . My argument is, ( I will try to keep it simple ), why are we both encouraging and relying on imported labour when we have 1.5 million drawing unemployment benefit ? Yes there is a demographic problem and an education system that is still overseeing school leavers who can not write their own name let alone enter the work place . Yes more are going to university, but what use is that to a plumber/ train driver/ hairdresser ? ( No disrespect intended ) .
Any employer worth his salt will take on the best candidate that sits across from his desk on the day . Not at all interested in where he comes from or what he does with his wages . The last migrant worker I spoke to , ( chap from Poland ) , was a qualified heating engineer stacking shelves in Sainsburys who had had enough and was heading back to Warsaw .
Lot has been said about apprenticeships , both old and new , but what use is that if the only local workplace is a fast food outlet ? I am a little reluctant to suggest yet another quango to correlate the needs of the labour pool and those of industry but a bit of joined up thinking would not go amiss .


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newres
post Oct 18 2017, 08:12 PM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Oct 18 2017, 07:16 PM) *
Its ok. 3.6 million EU nationals are here. 2.1 million work. That means 1.5 million dont. If they all leave the housing crisis is solved!!! Eureka.

https://fullfact.org/immigration/eu-citizens-living-uk/

Nope, you either aren't very bright (that's where my money is) or you are deliberately obfuscating (Google it).

"About 81% of working age EU citizens in the UK were in work in spring this year, compared to around 75% of UK nationals" My italics.

The others are likely to be dependents and supported by the person in work. Some will be students as well. Ofcourse and as it's only a snapshot, it's likely that some will have been between jobs on the day the snapshot was taken.
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TallDarkAndHands...
post Oct 18 2017, 08:32 PM
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QUOTE (newres @ Oct 18 2017, 09:12 PM) *
Nope, you either aren't very bright (that's where my money is) or you are deliberately obfuscating (Google it).

"About 81% of working age EU citizens in the UK were in work in spring this year, compared to around 75% of UK nationals" My italics.

The others are likely to be dependents and supported by the person in work. Some will be students as well. Ofcourse and as it's only a snapshot, it's likely that some will have been between jobs on the day the snapshot was taken.


Insults. The last thing a liberal dotart like you has when you can't admit being wrong. Soo.. How many is 19% of 2.1 million? Can you work it out? Can you? Yes thats right approximately 400000 EU citizens of WORKING age are out of work and no doubt claiming benefits. Well done newres. I never knew it was that many. You just hardened my position now to a bit more anti EU.😂
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je suis Charlie
post Oct 18 2017, 09:08 PM
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That sweet sweet smell of Libtard remoaners.
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newres
post Oct 19 2017, 02:49 AM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Oct 18 2017, 09:32 PM) *
Insults. The last thing a liberal dotart like you has when you can't admit being wrong. Soo.. How many is 19% of 2.1 million? Can you work it out? Can you? Yes thats right approximately 400000 EU citizens of WORKING age are out of work and no doubt claiming benefits. Well done newres. I never knew it was that many. You just hardened my position now to a bit more anti EU.😂

Without doubt some will be claiming benefits, but many won't. Many will be wives/partners and being supported by their working partner, some will be students and some will be between jobs on the day the snapshot was taken.

Just admit it. You don't like foreigners. My point is that if we leave the EU (I think as time goes on it's becoming more apparent it's economic suicide) many of those white faces will be brown as we recruit from the commonwealth.
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TallDarkAndHands...
post Oct 19 2017, 05:04 AM
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QUOTE (newres @ Oct 19 2017, 03:49 AM) *
Without doubt some will be claiming benefits, but many won't. Many will be wives/partners and being supported by their working partner, some will be students and some will be between jobs on the day the snapshot was taken.

Just admit it. You don't like foreigners. My point is that if we leave the EU (I think as time goes on it's becoming more apparent it's economic suicide) many of those white faces will be brown as we recruit from the commonwealth.


Just admit it. You hate white English people. Im not even going to bother responding to your accusation of xenophobia / racism. It's pathetic. As for your economic suicide argument, it is possible that we may encounter a slight downturn in fortune in the short term whilst things recalibrate. Personally its something I and many brexiteers had already factored in when making our decision to leave. Not to leave would be an affront to democracy. But then people like you don't seem to like democracy unless the people make the decison you want.
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SirWilliam
post Oct 19 2017, 08:23 AM
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" There is nowt as blind as those who have no wish to see " Everyone is entitled to their point of view , but to personally attack the intellect of someone who does not share your opinions is a bit below the belt .
If the state support of migrant "workers" was not an issue why was it not firmly put to bed by the treasury years ago ? No ; it is an issue and one that has to be addressed very soon , however unpalatable some may find it .


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Mr Brown
post Oct 19 2017, 09:20 AM
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So far, no one has factored in what Mark Carney Governor of the Bank of England said a few weeks back; technology will be taking over vast numbers of low level jobs very quickly now. He's concerned that the number of jobs avaliable will be hugely reduced and as a consequence unemployment will again become the main issue. We shouldn't worry about immigrants; they'll be off. So, nothing to do with Brexit, just the onward march of technology.

As if to underline this, albeit using existing methods and processes, Sainsbury's have made a start. Centralised and automated functions replacing a large number of jobs.
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dannyboy
post Oct 19 2017, 09:39 AM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Oct 18 2017, 09:32 PM) *
Yes thats right approximately 400000 EU citizens of WORKING age are out of work and no doubt claiming benefits.


Only if entitled to them.



I don't work & nor do I claim benefits. I'm sure others do the same. My mother has never worked a day in her life.
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SirWilliam
post Oct 19 2017, 09:40 AM
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QUOTE (Mr Brown @ Oct 19 2017, 10:20 AM) *
So far, no one has factored in what Mark Carney Governor of the Bank of England said a few weeks back; technology will be taking over vast numbers of low level jobs very quickly now. He's concerned that the number of jobs avaliable will be hugely reduced and as a consequence unemployment will again become the main issue. We shouldn't worry about immigrants; they'll be off. So, nothing to do with Brexit, just the onward march of technology.

As if to underline this, albeit using existing methods and processes, Sainsbury's have made a start. Centralised and automated functions replacing a large number of jobs.


Those with the work ethic will , undoubtedly , be off to pastures new . The problem is those who have neither the drive nor Country to return to will find themselves in our social welfare system . Rather debatable as to how much technology will change the working environment , supermarket checkouts yes , house builders no . All about the Country , ( wherever it is ) , being able to support it's population . Once an area becomes overpopulated in terms of people equal to the number of houses/jobs/medical facilities etc then cracks start to appear . Then the nationalists raise their banner and off we go again . History repeats and continues to do so .



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newres
post Oct 19 2017, 12:17 PM
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QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Oct 19 2017, 09:23 AM) *
" There is nowt as blind as those who have no wish to see " Everyone is entitled to their point of view , but to personally attack the intellect of someone who does not share your opinions is a bit below the belt .
If the state support of migrant "workers" was not an issue why was it not firmly put to bed by the treasury years ago ? No ; it is an issue and one that has to be addressed very soon , however unpalatable some may find it .

If it was such an issue, why weren't figures published by Farage in the campaign? He may not have needed to resort to lies to get people behind his anti immigration stance.
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SirWilliam
post Oct 19 2017, 02:16 PM
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QUOTE (newres @ Oct 19 2017, 01:17 PM) *
If it was such an issue, why weren't figures published by Farage in the campaign? He may not have needed to resort to lies to get people behind his anti immigration stance.


One of the biggest myths of the referendum was that the likes of Farage / Johnson / Grove et al had any real influence on peoples voting , though Osborne did his best . I don't know what was bandied about because I turned the media off when confronted but I am sure it was used somewhere .
Anyway that is no longer relevant , as is remaining a member of the federalist club . What is up for grabs is what happens next and included in the list is a decent standard of living for EVERYONE who lives and works in this Country .


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Mr Brown
post Oct 19 2017, 03:28 PM
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QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Oct 19 2017, 10:40 AM) *
Those with the work ethic will , undoubtedly , be off to pastures new . The problem is those who have neither the drive nor Country to return to will find themselves in our social welfare system . Rather debatable as to how much technology will change the working environment , supermarket checkouts yes , house builders no . All about the Country , ( wherever it is ) , being able to support it's population . Once an area becomes overpopulated in terms of people equal to the number of houses/jobs/medical facilities etc then cracks start to appear . Then the nationalists raise their banner and off we go again . History repeats and continues to do so .


Having worked in various other countries, the U.K. welfare system, though undoubtedly good, is not the big magnet many think it to be. The biggest draw is language, English; simply because of the Americanisation of the west. If you just want looking after, Germany is the place to go. Ironically, immigrants are necessarily those with the 'get up and go' who move on looking for a better life, in terms of more money, not doles. So, they are likely to be the first out. For those without drive or initiative, though this hurts, look at the indigenous disaffected youth.

Most of us think technological change as computers, iPhones and the like. It's consequence though is far greater. Not only office / retail / administration but every aspect of life. One very small example; the advent of plastic plumbing. This gives building developers the opportunity to de-skill and make much faster traditional metal plumbing tasks. Simplistically, iPhone instructions tell the operator what to do and the stuff to do it is easily transported, cut and fixed with no specialist training or tools. Job done faster with much cheaper labour and that's just one very small example.

History indeed repeats itself; exactly what happened as the industrial revolution developed.
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Biker1
post Oct 19 2017, 05:18 PM
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QUOTE (Mr Brown @ Oct 19 2017, 04:28 PM) *
the U.K. welfare system, though undoubtedly good, is not the big magnet many think it to be.

Yes it is! tongue.gif
QUOTE (Mr Brown @ Oct 19 2017, 04:28 PM) *
The biggest draw is language,

So all those waiting in Calais and now Bilbao who have travelled through several friendly countries are trying to get here because we speak the preferred language of English? rolleyes.gif
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SirWilliam
post Oct 19 2017, 05:22 PM
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QUOTE (Mr Brown @ Oct 19 2017, 04:28 PM) *
Having worked in various other countries, the U.K. welfare system, though undoubtedly good, is not the big magnet many think it to be. The biggest draw is language, English; simply because of the Americanisation of the west. If you just want looking after, Germany is the place to go. Ironically, immigrants are necessarily those with the 'get up and go' who move on looking for a better life, in terms of more money, not doles. So, they are likely to be the first out. For those without drive or initiative, though this hurts, look at the indigenous disaffected youth.

Most of us think technological change as computers, iPhones and the like. It's consequence though is far greater. Not only office / retail / administration but every aspect of life. One very small example; the advent of plastic plumbing. This gives building developers the opportunity to de-skill and make much faster traditional metal plumbing tasks. Simplistically, iPhone instructions tell the operator what to do and the stuff to do it is easily transported, cut and fixed with no specialist training or tools. Job done faster with much cheaper labour and that's just one very small example.

History indeed repeats itself; exactly what happened as the industrial revolution developed.


A measured and articulate advocacy . One can only speculate where this will end but I surmise we are at the start of the evolution as opposed to the end.



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newres
post Oct 19 2017, 06:05 PM
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QUOTE (Mr Brown @ Oct 19 2017, 04:28 PM) *
Having worked in various other countries, the U.K. welfare system, though undoubtedly good, is not the big magnet many think it to be. The biggest draw is language, English; simply because of the Americanisation of the west. If you just want looking after, Germany is the place to go. Ironically, immigrants are necessarily those with the 'get up and go' who move on looking for a better life, in terms of more money, not doles. So, they are likely to be the first out. For those without drive or initiative, though this hurts, look at the indigenous disaffected youth.

Most of us think technological change as computers, iPhones and the like. It's consequence though is far greater. Not only office / retail / administration but every aspect of life. One very small example; the advent of plastic plumbing. This gives building developers the opportunity to de-skill and make much faster traditional metal plumbing tasks. Simplistically, iPhone instructions tell the operator what to do and the stuff to do it is easily transported, cut and fixed with no specialist training or tools. Job done faster with much cheaper labour and that's just one very small example.

History indeed repeats itself; exactly what happened as the industrial revolution developed.

We continually evolve and as a consequence in the UK we've become primarily a service based society. Each change brings about consequences. For example the online revolution means less retail space, but more leisure time. So the jobs in retail become delivery jobs and baristas! There are still plenty of jobs. They are just different jobs and as you say often less skill is needed.
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SirWilliam
post Oct 19 2017, 06:49 PM
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QUOTE (newres @ Oct 19 2017, 07:05 PM) *
We continually evolve and as a consequence in the UK we've become primarily a service based society. Each change brings about consequences. For example the online revolution means less retail space, but more leisure time. So the jobs in retail become delivery jobs and baristas! There are still plenty of jobs. They are just different jobs and as you say often less skill is needed.


Could you explain to the uninitiated how having more leisure time is of advantage to someone on the minimum wage ? There may well be more jobs at the lower end of the market but don't you think they would be happier if they at least had some disposable income ?


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newres
post Oct 19 2017, 07:04 PM
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QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Oct 19 2017, 07:49 PM) *
Could you explain to the uninitiated how having more leisure time is of advantage to someone on the minimum wage ? There may well be more jobs at the lower end of the market but don't you think they would be happier if they at least had some disposable income ?

Where did I say it was an advantage?
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TallDarkAndHands...
post Oct 19 2017, 10:13 PM
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QUOTE (newres @ Oct 19 2017, 08:04 PM) *
Where did I say it was an advantage?


Interesting article on SKY tonight where they interviewed some of the one million (estimated) illegal immigrants working on mostly slave wages. They see Brexit as a huge opportunity for them to gain UK citizenship and for them to stop being exploited. The group that were speaking were Tamils and living in a garage. Funny old world....I'd say we owe more historically to the old empire than the modern day EU. I'd like to see more brown faces from India and Sri Lanka etc than white ones from Eastern Europe. Just a personal choice and I love a good Diwali celebration.
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