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> Stroud Green Trees, morons
Bloggo
post Aug 26 2009, 09:34 AM
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Here we have yet another demonstration of mindless moronic behaviour of the local yob community.
They are either setting light to things, spraying paint on them or destroying them.
When, oh when will someone do something about these d**kheads and give them a sentence that gives them some intense displeasure when and if they are caught.


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GMR
post Aug 26 2009, 09:38 AM
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QUOTE (Bloggo @ Aug 26 2009, 10:34 AM) *
Here we have yet another demonstration of mindless moronic behaviour of the local yob community.
They are either setting light to things, spraying paint on them or destroying them.
When, oh when will someone do something about these d**kheads and give them a sentence that gives them some intense displeasure when and if they are caught.



That is the problem and why they continue to get away with it. Nobody there to stop them, and if there was what would the police do? Give them a talking to, Asbo, a trip to the seaside? You might as well turn a blind eye; officials do or they can't be bothered. The easy option is to pick a crime that gets results; parking, speeding... etc.
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post Aug 26 2009, 10:16 AM
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Probably the same morons who have been snapping off car aerials around that area again.

The trouble is these things can occur at anytime overnight and there is simply no financial justification for undercover surveillance work to catch the perpertrators in the act.

Where will they strike next and how the heck are the Police supposed to catch them?
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Bloggo
post Aug 26 2009, 10:22 AM
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QUOTE (Bill1 @ Aug 26 2009, 11:16 AM) *
Probably the same morons who have been snapping off car aerials around that area again.

The trouble is these things can occur at anytime overnight and there is simply no financial justification for undercover surveillance work to catch the perpertrators in the act.

Where will they strike next and how the heck are the Police supposed to catch them?

Yes Bill you're right but if there was a harsh deterrent if and when they are caught then perhaps they wouldn't do it.
The system encourages this sought of mindless vandalism. There needs to be some harsh justice metered out when the opportunity arises to send out a message that we wont tolerate this behaviour.


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post Aug 26 2009, 10:26 AM
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QUOTE (Bloggo @ Aug 26 2009, 11:22 AM) *
Yes Bill you're right but if there was a harsh deterrent if and when they are caught then perhaps they wouldn't do it.
The system encourages this sought of mindless vandalism. There needs to be some harsh justice metered out when the opportunity arises to send out a message that we wont tolerate this behaviour.


I agree, it's just the catching them that's difficult.

I am one of the poor sods who has had his aerial stolen this year, twice!

I take mine off every night now, which shouldn't be neccessary, but there you go.
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Bloggo
post Aug 26 2009, 10:36 AM
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QUOTE (Bill1 @ Aug 26 2009, 11:26 AM) *
I agree, it's just the catching them that's difficult.

I am one of the poor sods who has had his aerial stolen this year, twice!

I take mine off every night now, which shouldn't be neccessary, but there you go.

Yes, it's easy to turn a blind eye if you have not been a victim of this c**p but I like you have and it is really p***ing me off.


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user23
post Aug 26 2009, 05:25 PM
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QUOTE (Bloggo @ Aug 26 2009, 11:22 AM) *
Yes Bill you're right but if there was a harsh deterrent if and when they are caught then perhaps they wouldn't do it.
What sort of harsh deterrent?
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Iommi
post Aug 26 2009, 05:30 PM
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QUOTE (user23 @ Aug 26 2009, 06:25 PM) *
What sort of harsh deterrent?

The Birch! tongue.gif
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ossy1
post Aug 26 2009, 06:22 PM
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QUOTE (GMR @ Aug 26 2009, 10:38 AM) *
That is the problem and why they continue to get away with it. Nobody there to stop them, and if there was what would the police do? Give them a talking to, Asbo, a trip to the seaside? You might as well turn a blind eye; officials do or they can't be bothered. The easy option is to pick a crime that gets results; parking, speeding... etc.



Clearly the things I said in other posts made no difference to you what so ever. The police are not responsible for the out come of a case, that is down to the courts and the CPS. Do you think it is not frustrating for us to put alot of time and effort into cases for them to be dropped at court etc.

Police officers do not deal with parking tickets unless someone reports an obstruction. That's what you have the council wardens and PCSO's for. Police officers do not pick what crime they deal with, they deal with what people report. It would be lovely to catch these idiots I would happily march them into custody for you but there is something called evidence which is required.
This sort of behaviour could probably be traced back to the up bringing im afraid!
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JeffG
post Aug 26 2009, 07:10 PM
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Yes, it all comes down to the parents. And probably the parents' parents as well.
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user23
post Aug 26 2009, 07:21 PM
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QUOTE (ossy1 @ Aug 26 2009, 07:22 PM) *
Clearly the things I said in other posts made no difference to you what so ever. The police are not responsible for the out come of a case, that is down to the courts and the CPS. Do you think it is not frustrating for us to put alot of time and effort into cases for them to be dropped at court etc.

Police officers do not deal with parking tickets unless someone reports an obstruction. That's what you have the council wardens and PCSO's for. Police officers do not pick what crime they deal with, they deal with what people report. It would be lovely to catch these idiots I would happily march them into custody for you but there is something called evidence which is required.
Some people don't want to listen to or understand how the systems works.

They're more concerned with how they feel unfairly treated by not being able to do what they want, like driving the speed they wish or parking where they like.

For me, if I had a choice between prosecuting those vandalising trees or speeding I'd always choose the latter as it's more likely to lead to serious injury or death.
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GMR
post Aug 26 2009, 07:27 PM
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QUOTE
Clearly the things I said in other posts made no difference to you what so ever. The police are not responsible for the out come of a case, that is down to the courts and the CPS. Do you think it is not frustrating for us to put alot of time and effort into cases for them to be dropped at court etc.


Clearly the things I said in other posts made no difference to you my friend. Throwing spanners in the works has nothing to do with you but getting people motivated to reply. However, I agree that the police are not at fault when it comes pushing the case to the next level... nevertheless, I know from experience that because of this they are frustrated; that frustration should be channelled at whoever makes the stupid decisions to go against the polices recommendations. I do not accept that once the police have done their part that it is the end of it. People take their anger out at the police, as you know; channel that hostility by taking your concerns to a higher level; otherwise you are saying that is it and TOUGH!! Sorry, but I don’t accept that. In America you vote for your local senior police officer and the public wouldn't accept the excuses you give and he would be voted out; if a senior officer had been voted in by the public (which, I might add the Tory's want to do) we probably wouldn't be having this discussion.

QUOTE
Police officers do not deal with parking tickets unless someone reports an obstruction. That's what you have the council wardens and PCSO's for.


Yes I do know....

QUOTE
Police officers do not pick what crime they deal with, they deal with what people report.


Actually that is not true; I reported a crime in progress at the beginning of the year and nobody came out... there has been many other cases like this. I made an official complaint but it was just swept under the carpet.

QUOTE
It would be lovely to catch these idiots I would happily march them into custody for you but there is something called evidence which is required.


You’ve had plenty of evidence and never pursued it. I can name many cases for you.

QUOTE
This sort of behaviour could probably be traced back to the up bringing im afraid!


I agree but that doesn’t help ordinary citizens. Ideas what the causes are, are in abundance; what isn’t is positive action and an end result.
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GMR
post Aug 26 2009, 07:28 PM
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QUOTE (JeffG @ Aug 26 2009, 08:10 PM) *
Yes, it all comes down to the parents. And probably the parents' parents as well.



Of course it does, but saying that isn't going to achieve anything; what will achieve anything is if the police or somebody psychically does something about it.
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ossy1
post Aug 26 2009, 07:40 PM
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Is that your understanding of evidence or te law's understanding of evidence. Whilst I don't disbelieve what you say. Most people I come across who think they have evidence do not have what is refered to as admissable evidence. You seem like an intelligent sort of person so I guess you know what that means.

example: I know who damaged the tree's
Me. "who
Mr SMITH
Me. excellent are you prepared to provide a statement and go to court?
Oh no I dont want to do that, and I dont want anyone to know I told you.

This is inabmissable evidence, and whilst we try our best to deal with cases by other means sometimes you just can't without that evidence.
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JeffG
post Aug 26 2009, 07:52 PM
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QUOTE (GMR @ Aug 26 2009, 08:28 PM) *
or somebody psychically does something about it.

Like Mystic Meg, you mean? Sorry - couldn't resist (as they say). tongue.gif
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GMR
post Aug 26 2009, 07:53 PM
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QUOTE (ossy1 @ Aug 26 2009, 08:40 PM) *
Is that your understanding of evidence or te law's understanding of evidence. Whilst I don't disbelieve what you say. Most people I come across who think they have evidence do not have what is refered to as admissable evidence. You seem like an intelligent sort of person so I guess you know what that means.

example: I know who damaged the tree's
Me. "who
Mr SMITH
Me. excellent are you prepared to provide a statement and go to court?
Oh no I dont want to do that, and I dont want anyone to know I told you.

This is inabmissable evidence, and whilst we try our best to deal with cases by other means sometimes you just can't without that evidence.



Hi ossy,

Which pit are you referring to? When I said I was witness to a crime in progress?

If you point me to what you are referring to I'll explain.
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post Aug 26 2009, 08:03 PM
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QUOTE (ossy1 @ Aug 26 2009, 12:40 PM) *
Is that your understanding of evidence or te law's understanding of evidence. Whilst I don't disbelieve what you say. Most people I come across who think they have evidence do not have what is refered to as admissable evidence. You seem like an intelligent sort of person so I guess you know what that means.

example: I know who damaged the tree's
Me. "who
Mr SMITH
Me. excellent are you prepared to provide a statement and go to court?
Oh no I dont want to do that, and I dont want anyone to know I told you.

This is inabmissable evidence, and whilst we try our best to deal with cases by other means sometimes you just can't without that evidence.


Very true and it's a sad reality. People are very hesitant to bear witness to thugs for fear of becoming victims themselves. And many will no doubt feel that even if they do provide evidence then the punishment will not be worth the risk of coming forward.

A question with regards to the scenario you lay out. Does it help the police to collect such information so you can identify who are persistant trouble makers even if they can't be prosecuted for their prior offences? I'm sure you and your colleagues know many of the local thugs, but does this help you police the area? Or just a cause of frustration because you can't touch the buggers?
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ossy1
post Aug 26 2009, 08:08 PM
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What ever you were refering to when talking about having evidence.

As for your complaint being swept under the carpert, I do not deal with complaints but as I understand there is a rather strict process for dealing complaints. The process obviously starts at the lowest level, the outcome of the complaint is discussed with the complainant. I you are not satisfied with that result then you can proceed further. Having known a few people that have been on the receiving end of complaint I can assure you they are never dealt with by way of sweeping under the carpet!!
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ossy1
post Aug 26 2009, 08:17 PM
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QUOTE (Newbury Expat @ Aug 26 2009, 09:03 PM) *
Very true and it's a sad reality. People are very hesitant to bear witness to thugs for fear of becoming victims themselves. And many will no doubt feel that even if they do provide evidence then the punishment will not be worth the risk of coming forward.

A question with regards to the scenario you lay out. Does it help the police to collect such information so you can identify who are persistant trouble makers even if they can't be prosecuted for their prior offences? I'm sure you and your colleagues know many of the local thugs, but does this help you police the area? Or just a cause of frustration because you can't touch the buggers?


All information helps, it gives a picture of whats going on out there. We always encourage people to report things, even if it's just anon through crime stoppers. It gives an idea of where to go and who to look for when crimes are reported. I won't say to much I may be in dangerous of assisting an offender!!!
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On the edge
post Aug 26 2009, 08:26 PM
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QUOTE (user23 @ Aug 26 2009, 08:21 PM) *
......For me, if I had a choice between prosecuting those vandalising trees or speeding I'd always choose the latter as it's more likely to lead to serious injury or death.


Actually, even if at first glance many would see this as provocative, but its spot on. Trees can and do grow new limbs! There are some places that use planting to 'absorb' vandalisim. A park area which just contains big shrubs and bushes - do what you like, it will all grow back. Race round the town and hit someone - unfortunately they won't grow back.


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