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> The changes to Newbury, Who wanted them?
regor
post Sep 17 2009, 10:28 AM
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Looking through the "Is Newbury safe...?"responses on these boards I was struck by the fact that nobody seemed happy that the town was being rebuilt.

It occurred to me that from random conversations with kith and kin nobody of my acquiaintance admits to ever having been in favour of the redevelopment that is currently under way between Vicky park and Northbrook St.

I suspect some are being a little economical with the actualite. After all, back at the beginning there must have been some sort of majority, or at least a large minority, that wanted this development, otherwise it implies that the town planners just ignored the citizens and did it all of their own backs.

So come on! Hands up! Who will admit to being in favour, either then or now?
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TallDarkAndHands...
post Sep 17 2009, 10:37 AM
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Not me. Its a white Elephant. Once people stop shopping in a town they don't come back. And most of Newburys shoppers now go elsewhere because of the difficulty parking, the likelyhood of getting a ticket and the dirth of any decent shops.

This is how it will go. Initially most of the retail units will be rented. The rates and rents will be astronomical and after a period of 6-12 months trading the retailers will realise that the shops are not viable and will close to be replaced by either empty units or poundland shops.

Sound familiar?
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Bloggo
post Sep 17 2009, 10:46 AM
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No, me neither.
I'm not sure that there was any public consultation about this developement.
My understanding is that it was a venture initiated by the Council in conjunction with the likes of Camp Hopson etc.

My feeling is that it will struggle to attract shoppers because of 3 things.

1. Traffic conjestion in and around the town particularly on Race days.
2. Parking availability and charges.
3. Lack of diversity of shopping. ie, no different for Basigstoke and Reading.

I hope I'm wrong.


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Andy
post Sep 17 2009, 01:09 PM
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Human kind has an in-build fear of change, as it always seems more "comfortable" with sticking with what you know. This is often initially backed up with the disruption caused by and during that change period, but things usually work out ok even though there will no doubt be teething problems to iron after completetion too.

I'm pretty sure Newbury's developements will be no different in that respect, but will eventually settle and be the new norm.


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JeffG
post Sep 17 2009, 01:39 PM
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I think their ("the visionaries") defence when everybody started moaning about the unwanted developments (starting with pedestrianisation) was that the public had been consulted by questionnaire and there was a majority in favour.

However, I don't think anybody knew anybody who had received one.
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Blake
post Sep 17 2009, 01:41 PM
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As Shakespeare once so sagely wrote; "Oft we mar what's well."
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JeffG
post Sep 17 2009, 01:41 PM
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QUOTE (Bloggo @ Sep 17 2009, 11:46 AM) *
No, me neither.

This needs cross-posting in the "Irritating phrases" thread tongue.gif
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Bloggo
post Sep 17 2009, 01:51 PM
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QUOTE (JeffG @ Sep 17 2009, 02:41 PM) *
This needs cross-posting in the "Irritating phrases" thread tongue.gif

Whoops, sorry about that. I thought it was Queen's english. tongue.gif


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JeffG
post Sep 17 2009, 02:40 PM
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QUOTE (Bloggo @ Sep 17 2009, 02:51 PM) *
Whoops, sorry about that. I thought it was Queen's english. tongue.gif

laugh.gif It's American. How about "nor me"? Sorry, I am so into being pedantic, know what I mean? wink.gif
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James_Trinder
post Sep 17 2009, 03:00 PM
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QUOTE (regor @ Sep 17 2009, 11:28 AM) *
Looking through the "Is Newbury safe...?"responses on these boards I was struck by the fact that nobody seemed happy that the town was being rebuilt.

It occurred to me that from random conversations with kith and kin nobody of my acquiaintance admits to ever having been in favour of the redevelopment that is currently under way between Vicky park and Northbrook St.

I suspect some are being a little economical with the actualite. After all, back at the beginning there must have been some sort of majority, or at least a large minority, that wanted this development, otherwise it implies that the town planners just ignored the citizens and did it all of their own backs.

So come on! Hands up! Who will admit to being in favour, either then or now?


I was in favour then and I am in favour now. I am sure that people in Reading had the same views when the Oracle was being built but that has been a complete success story and the Broad Street Mall (the Kennet Centre equivalent) is still trading well.
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Rose8
post Sep 17 2009, 04:34 PM
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Wasn't in favour then .... still not in favour now. I used to go into town about twice a week, now i go when NEEDED, usually about once every 10 weeks, to drop my son off for his hair cut. Or i may go the bank if i absolutely HAVE to, even then i am IN, do what i HAVE to, then OUT!! I used to 'browse' around or pop to the park with my little one, but she is in school now and i can't imagine 'browsing' in Newbury any more. Used to LOVE the town, but sadly not anymore. I have lived here for the last 36 years. We have to have change, but we dont have to like it.
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spartacus
post Sep 17 2009, 08:14 PM
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As Andy says, file the responses under 'Human Characteristics (Part One) - Resistance To Change' (or "It ain't like it was in MY day...")

Nobody likes the disruption and inconvenience, but once it's built we soon accept changes. Reminds me of the experiment with chimps.... rolleyes.gif

QUOTE
Start with a cage containing five apes.

In the cage, hang a banana on a string and put stairs under it. Before long, an ape will go to the stairs and start to climb towards the banana. As soon as he touches the stairs, spray all of the apes with cold water. After a while, another ape makes an attempt with the same result – all the apes are sprayed with cold water. This continues through several more attempts. Pretty soon, when another ape tries to climb the stairs, the other apes all try to prevent it.

Now turn off the water.

Remove one ape from the cage and replace it with a new one. The new ape sees the banana and wants to climb the stairs. To his horror, all of the other apes attack him when he moves towards the stairs. After another attempt and attack, he knows that if he tries to climb the stairs, he will be assaulted. Next, remove another of the original five apes and replace it with another new one. The newcomer goes to the stairs and is attacked.

The previous newcomer takes part in the punishment with enthusiasm. Again, replace a third original ape with a new one. The new one makes it to the stairs and is attacked as well. Two of the four apes that beat him have no idea why they were not permitted to climb the stairs, or why they are participating in the beating of the newest ape.

After replacing the fourth and fifth original apes, all the apes which have been sprayed with cold water have been replaced. Nevertheless, no ape ever again approaches the stairs.

Why not? Because that’s the way they’ve always done it and that’s the way it’s always been around here.

Sounds familiar??
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Iommi
post Sep 17 2009, 08:33 PM
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QUOTE (spartacus @ Sep 17 2009, 09:14 PM) *
As Andy says, file the responses under 'Human Characteristics (Part One) - Resistance To Change' (or "It ain't like it was in MY day...") Nobody likes the disruption and inconvenience, but once it's built we soon accept changes. Reminds me of the experiment with chimps.... rolleyes.gif Sounds familiar??

No and what a waste of 90 seconds of my life that was (my apologies, but I can't see the analogy here).

Humans have characteristics for a reason and it forms a part of our survival instinct.

Many people are not resistive to change if they are informed why and feel that they have a stake holding in the system. With the current vision, people smell a rat and that is likely to be one reason why people are against what is happening. That and some pretty shoddy PR.

For me, I regret that so much investment is made in consumerism. A word that is becoming increasingly distasteful in modern society. Another is the relentless growth in the town and all the grief that it will bring.
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spartacus
post Sep 17 2009, 08:46 PM
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QUOTE (Iommi @ Sep 17 2009, 09:33 PM) *
For me, I regret that so much investment is made in consumerism. A word that is becoming increasingly distasteful in modern society. Another is the relentless growth in the town and all the grief that it will bring.

What rubbish.... or are you typing this from your tepee, by the light of your peat fire with your horse and cart parked up outside? It's called progress.

This wailing "oh, the incessent march of consumerism" is like the tree huggers wailing about the destruction of the planet, failing to realise that when they jump on a 747 to South Africa to watch the whales or fight off the japanese fishermen they're also contributing to the very 'destruction of the planet' they wail about.
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Iommi
post Sep 17 2009, 08:53 PM
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QUOTE (spartacus @ Sep 17 2009, 09:46 PM) *
What rubbish.... or are you typing this from your tepee, by the light of your peat fire with your horse and cart parked up outside? It's called progress.

Progress my ar$e. I see no progress, just more and more landlords encouraging people to spend money on things they don't need and often can ill afford.

QUOTE (spartacus @ Sep 17 2009, 09:46 PM) *
This wailing "oh, the incessent march of consumerism" is like the tree huggers wailing about the destruction of the planet, failing to realise that when they jump on a 747 to South Africa to watch the whales or fight off the japanese fishermen they're also contributing to the very 'destruction of the planet' they wail about.

So you admit it is destroying the planet then?

But no, that is not my point. My objection is that planning rules and policies are breached to ensure that developers can realise the vanity projects that people from out of town conjure up.
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GMR
post Sep 17 2009, 09:06 PM
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Whether we think it is a good idea or not we are going to get 'progress'. I suppose we can always pull them down afterwards if we are not happy laugh.gif
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spartacus
post Sep 17 2009, 09:16 PM
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QUOTE (Iommi @ Sep 17 2009, 09:53 PM) *
So you admit it is destroying the planet then?
Absolutely... At any one time of any day there are reckoned to be upwards of 5,000 planes (not including military aircraft or light aircraft) up in the skies across the planet belching out spent fuel into the sub-stratosphere. Wasn't that one of the benefits they noticed in the States following the grounding of aircraft after 9/11. The fuzzy haze in the skies had lifted as all the muck was no longer being pumped directly into the blue?

Ban the tree huggers and their nasty selfish excursions to the far reaches of the planet to whale watch or be at one with the indigenous peoples in their mudhuts (unless they can get there by hollowed out log canoe, then I'll approve of them going)

Anyhoo... I digress.... I'm in favour of the changes to Newbury (although I'll wait till it's finished thank you very much before I do much shopping there....) Tescos for me!!
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Iommi
post Sep 17 2009, 09:22 PM
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QUOTE (spartacus @ Sep 17 2009, 10:16 PM) *
(although I'll wait till it's finished thank you very much before I do much shopping there....) Tescos for me!!

Indeed and seems to be a growing trend amongst the population and another reason that I think it a folly to invest in the pursuit of more retail outlets.

The last time I flew in a plane, was in '87.
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Andy
post Sep 18 2009, 12:32 AM
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QUOTE (spartacus @ Sep 17 2009, 10:16 PM) *
Wasn't that one of the benefits they noticed in the States following the grounding of aircraft after 9/11. The fuzzy haze in the skies had lifted as all the muck was no longer being pumped directly into the blue?


Yes and the average temperature for those 3 days of clear sky resulted in a rise of over 1°C with no discernible weather changes, thus giving credence to a mighty interesting theory about Global Dimming....but that would be a whole different thread!!!


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blackdog
post Sep 18 2009, 09:58 AM
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Parkway is going to appear over the coming months - sadly it is too late to stop it.

But it is not too late to stop the next phase of the Vision. The Wharf scheme, especially building a large building on Victoria Park is coming up for a final 'consultation'.

Please take a good look at the scheme and make sure your views are heard as part of the consultation.
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