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> St John's Roundabout - Help a Cyclist, Green Cycle Lane Confusion
Claude
post Jul 16 2013, 12:07 PM
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Please can someone offer some guidance on the safest/intended way to use St John's roundabout as a cyclist?

I appreciate the safest way is probably to get off, walk on the pavements then re-mount your steed and continue on your journey, but I don't want to get off.

Assume you're heading in a southerly direction from the town centre towards the roundabout, and you wish to take the 3rd exit (Andover Road).

a) What road position should you use when approaching the roundabout?
cool.gif At what point should you indicate?
c) How long should you indicate for?
d) Who do you need to give priority to when approaching the roundabout?
e) Who do you need to give priority to when on the roundabout?
f) What road position would you use when on the roundabout?

If nobody else has experience I'd urge you to try this manoeuvre at 9am on a weekday, but if you do please make sure you wear a helmet!!!

Genuine comments & guidance would be most welcomed.
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motormad
post Jul 16 2013, 12:33 PM
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Work harder and buy a car.


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Nothing Much
post Jul 16 2013, 12:48 PM
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Well Claude. You certainly come up with some tricky questions.

Assuming that I am going to get this all wrong, but looking at the project from a car drivers viewpoint this might be worth typing.
As a car I would do it all differently.

Forget walking round. Cars are even more dangerous coming off a roundabout.
Wear something bright and sit up straight. Make yourself as big an object as possible
Don't race, especially VWs... the driver has missed his breakfast! Be positive on your moves.

Heading south to Andover I would plod round the outside expecting cars to cut you up from the other lane/s.
Keep looking round over your shoulder. A driver likes to know you are being conscious of your actions.
To turn left as you approach the exit a solid arm shows that you know what you are doing.
Perhaps 20 yards /metres from the exit. Try not to let trucks or Tesco delivery vans force you to get to the kerb.

As a car of course I would engage sport mode from the R/H lane cut across to the centre and then cut across
to exit. Bloody cars. You also have to cope with drivers who are on holiday and have no idea where they are.
ce
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Claude
post Jul 16 2013, 01:37 PM
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QUOTE (motormad @ Jul 16 2013, 01:33 PM) *
Work harder and buy a car.

If you don't have anything useful to say then please don't bother posting, unless it's funny, which this was not.
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Claude
post Jul 16 2013, 01:40 PM
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QUOTE (Nothing Much @ Jul 16 2013, 01:48 PM) *
Well Claude. You certainly come up with some tricky questions.

Assuming that I am going to get this all wrong, but looking at the project from a car drivers viewpoint this might be worth typing.
As a car I would do it all differently.

Forget walking round. Cars are even more dangerous coming off a roundabout.
Wear something bright and sit up straight. Make yourself as big an object as possible
Don't race, especially VWs... the driver has missed his breakfast! Be positive on your moves.

Heading south to Andover I would plod round the outside expecting cars to cut you up from the other lane/s.
Keep looking round over your shoulder. A driver likes to know you are being conscious of your actions.
To turn left as you approach the exit a solid arm shows that you know what you are doing.
Perhaps 20 yards /metres from the exit. Try not to let trucks or Tesco delivery vans force you to get to the kerb.

As a car of course I would engage sport mode from the R/H lane cut across to the centre and then cut across
to exit. Bloody cars. You also have to cope with drivers who are on holiday and have no idea where they are.
ce

ce, you raise some interesting points, thanks for taking the time. Personally I think it's a great roundabout for driving, the camber really entices you to do things you shouldn't, but I really want some advice from someone who has experience of riding this 'hazard'.
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motormad
post Jul 16 2013, 02:28 PM
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QUOTE (Claude @ Jul 16 2013, 02:37 PM) *
If you don't have anything useful to say then please don't bother posting, unless it's funny, which this was not.





All of the questions you ask are in the highway code and the lanes (and what one you need to be in for each exit) are clearly marked. If you are on a bicycle where the speed bump comes up you can get onto the path quite easily, cross the road, and then carry on.



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Nothing Much
post Jul 16 2013, 02:36 PM
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Hello Claude again. I have just driven round the area ( thanks Google). A darn good excuse for not cleaning windows!

Looking at the other site there was about 5 pages, mostly anti, of comments regarding the cycle lanes.
The posts dated from 2009 and included Blackdog, Brian and GMR.

To my mind they are not necessary. Confusing for the driver and giving a false sense of safety to a cyclist.
As an aside...I wonder if the architect is proud of his work on the Post Office on the corner of Old Newtown Rd.

To answer some of the points of detail.
You would be unable to signal your intentions at the entry point.
Give way to vehicles indicating/pushing/overtaking from the right.
Then take up space in the traffic lane. Most drivers follow the car in front.
If you are acting like a car you won't get run into.
This is defensive cycling.Maybe a bit wimpy but if it gets you round in one piece who cares.
When it is your turn to go use the vehicle spaces. pretend you are a car.

I passed my driving test in 1967 round that set of roads.Also a motorbike test and I can ride a big engined one
but I think the mid life crisis has passed me by ,Thank the Lord.

I also used the road after the Newt of Orme evening approaching from Jewsons side roads a few weeks ago.

That continental give way system is a nightmare! I think I have rambled enough for now.
ce
It seemed fairly quiet at about 10.00
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Nothing Much
post Jul 16 2013, 02:45 PM
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Hi motormad.A large percentage of the comments made in 2009 about the same area quoted the highway code.
Most agreed that no one looks at it except to make points on threads such as this.
Not very useful when a red Corsa is desperate to get past so that it has the chance to stop 30 yards further on, a nano second faster than anyone else. The code can't give a complete answer to every quirk of human nature... same as the Bible or Koran
ce
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Claude
post Jul 16 2013, 03:00 PM
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QUOTE (Nothing Much @ Jul 16 2013, 03:36 PM) *
Hello Claude again. I have just driven round the area ( thanks Google). A darn good excuse for not cleaning windows!

Looking at the other site there was about 5 pages, mostly anti, of comments regarding the cycle lanes.
The posts dated from 2009 and included Blackdog, Brian and GMR.

To my mind they are not necessary. Confusing for the driver and giving a false sense of safety to a cyclist.
As an aside...I wonder if the architect is proud of his work on the Post Office on the corner of Old Newtown Rd.

To answer some of the points of detail.
You would be unable to signal your intentions at the entry point.
Give way to vehicles indicating/pushing/overtaking from the right.
Then take up space in the traffic lane. Most drivers follow the car in front.
If you are acting like a car you won't get run into.
This is defensive cycling.Maybe a bit wimpy but if it gets you round in one piece who cares.
When it is your turn to go use the vehicle spaces. pretend you are a car.

I passed my driving test in 1967 round that set of roads.Also a motorbike test and I can ride a big engined one
but I think the mid life crisis has passed me by ,Thank the Lord.

I also used the road after the Newt of Orme evening approaching from Jewsons side roads a few weeks ago.

That continental give way system is a nightmare! I think I have rambled enough for now.
ce
It seemed fairly quiet at about 10.00

I hadn't considered the 'pretend to be a car' approach, I might give that one a go when I make my next attempt at safe passage to the other side.

Apologies in advance if it's you that's behind me motormad, but at least you'll know I'm in the road and not in the marked cycle lane because in my personal experience it's not safe enough there.

Legendary!
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Nothing Much
post Jul 16 2013, 03:39 PM
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ONLY Me... again.
http://www.newbury.net/forum/v-print/m-1295451770/
The post is from Golfy and Spartacus adds a gif. At the bottom of the page.
It actually almost says what I had written above. Except in a quarter the volume.
"As I go ramblin' round"
ce.
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motormad
post Jul 16 2013, 03:43 PM
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QUOTE (Nothing Much @ Jul 16 2013, 03:45 PM) *
Hi motormad.A large percentage of the comments made in 2009 about the same area quoted the highway code.
Most agreed that no one looks at it except to make points on threads such as this.
Not very useful when a red Corsa is desperate to get past so that it has the chance to stop 30 yards further on, a nano second faster than anyone else. The code can't give a complete answer to every quirk of human nature... same as the Bible or Koran
ce


Oh no you're exactly right CE.
No-one looks at it.

However I was simply writing, if it were me, that is what Andy Capp or some other wind-up merchant would have said. laugh.gif


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GMR
post Jul 16 2013, 03:46 PM
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QUOTE (Claude @ Jul 16 2013, 01:07 PM) *
Please can someone offer some guidance on the safest/intended way to use St John's roundabout as a cyclist?

I appreciate the safest way is probably to get off, walk on the pavements then re-mount your steed and continue on your journey, but I don't want to get off.

Assume you're heading in a southerly direction from the town centre towards the roundabout, and you wish to take the 3rd exit (Andover Road).

a) What road position should you use when approaching the roundabout?
cool.gif At what point should you indicate?
c) How long should you indicate for?
d) Who do you need to give priority to when approaching the roundabout?
e) Who do you need to give priority to when on the roundabout?
f) What road position would you use when on the roundabout?

If nobody else has experience I'd urge you to try this manoeuvre at 9am on a weekday, but if you do please make sure you wear a helmet!!!

Genuine comments & guidance would be most welcomed.





I cycle regularly on St John's Roundabout but I won't use the Green lane. It is dangerous. Not only is that my opinion but I was told the same by a police officer and other cyclists.

Cars cut in when you have the right of way. When I approach the roundabout I position myself, as a car would (and as it says in the Highway code), and when save drive.

I've never seen a cyclist use that green path.
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Claude
post Jul 16 2013, 03:48 PM
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QUOTE (Nothing Much @ Jul 16 2013, 04:39 PM) *
ONLY Me... again.
http://www.newbury.net/forum/v-print/m-1295451770/
The post is from Golfy and Spartacus adds a gif. At the bottom of the page.
It actually almost says what I had written above. Except in a quarter the volume.
"As I go ramblin' round"
ce.

Outstanding, merci beaucoup!
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Nothing Much
post Jul 16 2013, 03:58 PM
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There are so many new things to worry about these days motormad.
London Bus lanes. Some are 24 hrs,some morning and evenings some are just morning or evening.
No one uses bus lanes at all now. Reading the statutory signs and oops there goes another cyclist.
They are a danger in Bus Lanes as they make little sound and in the often empty lanes can really go!

Apart from such money making items, errr of course I agree entirely when using my soon to be withdrawn Freedom Pass in Bus lanes.
Quite a few clever life saving schemes of road marking have been discarded as they proved too distracting/confusing for
everyone.
I don't even know the speed limit on Motorways. Well I know the official limit but that is a different kettle of fish.

I do believe AC had a peek earlier.ce
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Nothing Much
post Jul 16 2013, 04:50 PM
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Yes OK I am a bit bored and googled Newbury. According to the Historical Society the 1st Traffic lights in Newbury were installed in the area of the roundabout.
In 1981 Tesco came to Newbury . The Soviet Union collapses and the Warsaw pact is dissolved.
In 1988 Methodist chapels are sold off. Coincidentally I looked up Newtown cemetery. It seems there is a Dissenters Crescent.
In 1867 The NWN was first pibloshed.2nd Reform Act extends the vote to skilled spellers. Sorry workers.

This darn PC. There goes the afternoon.
ce
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Strafin
post Jul 16 2013, 05:34 PM
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I am always very wary of cyclists on that roundabout and always give them plenty of room. It is a ridiculous design and I wish you all the best!
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Simon Kirby
post Jul 16 2013, 05:35 PM
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I use the "pretend you're a car" approach too. Cycling round in the cycle lane is ridiculously dangerous because it just invites cars to run you over as they exit across your path.


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desres123
post Jul 16 2013, 07:53 PM
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Why on earth use a cycle lane which defies all the rules in the highway code would cyclists or in fact (well usually) cars wont turn right on roundabouts using the outside lane so painting a cycle lane around st johns rbt is that going to protect the cyclist I leave that for you to decide
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GhostMemory
post Jul 17 2013, 06:56 AM
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As a non-cyclist, I would agree with the 'act like a car' suggestion, as long as you're acting like a well-driven car. The biggest problem I have when I encounter cyclists is that a lot of them in my experience behave like reckless drivers / motorcyclists (no indication before a change in direction, no awareness of the traffic around them etc.) but do not have the speed and, more importantly, the protection. I drive on the A339 to Basingstoke and back every day so I see all sorts of terrible driving (mad acceleration to overtake on the single carriageway, breaking the speed limit significantly, only to get stuck behind a slow train of traffic trailing a HGV or tractor - an example that happened just this morning), but nothing scares me as much as a cyclist suddenly swerving out in front of me with no prior warning.
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Biker1
post Jul 17 2013, 08:34 AM
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QUOTE (Claude @ Jul 16 2013, 01:07 PM) *
I appreciate the safest way is probably to get off, walk on the pavements then re-mount your steed and continue on your journey, but I don't want to get off.

Cyclists "walk" on the pavements?
Don't make me laugh!! laugh.gif
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