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What do the LibDems actjually stand for?, Is it simply power at any cost? |
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Nov 22 2012, 05:51 PM
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QUOTE (Richard Garvie @ Nov 22 2012, 04:08 PM) That's almost the same amount of votes you got in 2010 isnt it?? ;-) How many votes did you get at the last election... 0?
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Nov 22 2012, 05:54 PM
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QUOTE (Adrian Hollister @ Nov 22 2012, 05:51 PM) How many votes did you get at the last election... 0? I wasn't involved with politics in 2010...
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Nov 22 2012, 06:09 PM
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QUOTE (Richard Garvie @ Nov 22 2012, 05:54 PM) I wasn't involved with politics in 2010... bingo. Was the first time for me and a great learning experience, especially when you realise these 'professional' politicians we've seen here in Newbury are nothing more than people kept by large trust funds or wealthy spouses. One thing is for sure, in my short dabble in politics, I've never tried to rig an election, never pushed for personal headlines and never used politics to gain commercial or financial advantage. Interesting to note Sarah Teather Would Rather 'Poke Her Eyes Out' Than Join Labour. Seems to be a common theme with the Lib Dems denouncing links to Labour which would make a Lib-Lab coalition less likely.
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Nov 22 2012, 08:04 PM
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QUOTE (Adrian Hollister @ Nov 22 2012, 11:54 AM) A fundamental principle of Green politics is that decisions should be taken at the lowest practicable level: sometimes things dealt with at national level might better be decided regionally or more locally. However there are matters – safeguarding basic rights, peace and security achieved through mutual understanding, environmental protection, the spread of culture and ideas, regulation of the financial system – where I think that being part of the EU is appropriate. QUOTE (Adrian Hollister @ Nov 22 2012, 12:50 PM) Good examples: Sorry Adrian, what I should have said was, please give examples of decisions that are currently made nationaly, that should be made more local? QUOTE (Adrian Hollister @ Nov 22 2012, 12:50 PM) Finance: Greens don't support the UK joining the Euro; but we do think that creating an arrangement of co-operative fair trade is better than the current lopsided 'free' trade system.
Nationalism: Greens think that co-operation builds peace, as it has done in Europe. Our geography means that we are part of Europe. We believe in Europe, but not in a European superstate. So if you get into power, what will you do. Leave the EU? QUOTE (Adrian Hollister @ Nov 22 2012, 12:50 PM) Immigration: Don't blame the migrants - look to understand why they are migrating. Our international policies must seek to reduce the economic, political and environmental factors that force people to migrate. Emigration should be a positive choice, not the outcome of desperation. In particular, free movement within the EU is a fact and we should press for EU policies that make all parts of the EU an attractive place to live. Do you have any policies in mind?
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Nov 22 2012, 09:26 PM
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QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Nov 22 2012, 08:04 PM) Sorry Adrian, what I should have said was, please give examples of decisions that are currently made nationaly, that should be made more local? My thoughts are that things run by a central government are things that are most practically shared by the whole country - rail networks, power distribution, roads, defence, strategic goals etc. The rest should be down to the region - this includes the creation of an English parliament and a reworking of the current UK parliament system. If, for example, West Berkshire wants to have the highest standard of housing in the country, we should be allowed to mandate it. QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Nov 22 2012, 08:04 PM) So if you get into power, what will you do. Leave the EU? No. The EU has it's faults, but it has it's advantages too. Greens work throughout Europe to move to a consensus agenda, focused on sustainability, peace and community. I would not advocate the Euro though for the UK. At this time, I cannot see how it would benefit the country and would just move many of the decisions points from the UK to the EU. QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Nov 22 2012, 08:04 PM) Do you have any policies in mind? Greens world wide believe that the people have an individual and collective responsibility to ensure sustainability, human rights and social justice. One policy that may open the debate a bit more is to achieve greater equity between the UK and non-Western countries - in the longer term, I would look to progressively reduce UK immigration controls and tackle the source of the problem directly (this is a simple statement with a lot behind it!)
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Nov 22 2012, 09:54 PM
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QUOTE (Richard Garvie @ Nov 22 2012, 04:11 PM) Finally some policy!! Good answers, quite similar to my own views actually... Now lads, this is getting good. Some real proposals for a change.
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Know your place!
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Nov 22 2012, 10:15 PM
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QUOTE (Adrian Hollister @ Nov 22 2012, 06:09 PM) Interesting to note Sarah Teather Would Rather 'Poke Her Eyes Out' Than Join Labour. Seems to be a common theme with the Lib Dems denouncing links to Labour which would make a Lib-Lab coalition less likely. Not that common - Labour's candidate for TVP police commisar was a Liberal before the coalition.
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Nov 22 2012, 10:54 PM
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From: Newbury
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QUOTE (blackdog @ Nov 22 2012, 10:15 PM) Not that common - Labour's candidate for TVP police commisar was a Liberal before the coalition. Ummm and given that the successful candidate is now intent on increasing spending without any real justification, suspect he is as well.
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Know your place!
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Nov 22 2012, 11:16 PM
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QUOTE (Adrian Hollister @ Nov 22 2012, 09:26 PM) My thoughts are that things run by a central government are things that are most practically shared by the whole country - rail networks, power distribution, roads, defence, strategic goals etc. The rest should be down to the region - this includes the creation of an English parliament and a reworking of the current UK parliament system. If, for example, West Berkshire wants to have the highest standard of housing in the country, we should be allowed to mandate it. OK, I asked for examples, and you have given one. I see highest standard as more expensive. More expensive means fewer of them. I also believe that the government is or has removed legislation that moves towards a greater quantity of higher standard housing. Developers are usually eager to build 'high quality housing'. It is more lucrative. QUOTE (Adrian Hollister @ Nov 22 2012, 09:26 PM) No. The EU has it's faults, but it has it's advantages too. Greens work throughout Europe to move to a consensus agenda, focused on sustainability, peace and community. I would not advocate the Euro though for the UK. At this time, I cannot see how it would benefit the country and would just move many of the decisions points from the UK to the EU. I don't really see much here that is different to that which is currently in place. QUOTE (Adrian Hollister @ Nov 22 2012, 09:26 PM) Greens world wide believe that the people have an individual and collective responsibility to ensure sustainability, human rights and social justice. One policy that may open the debate a bit more is to achieve greater equity between the UK and non-Western countries - in the longer term, I would look to progressively reduce UK immigration controls and tackle the source of the problem directly (this is a simple statement with a lot behind it!) Have you examples of the 'source of the problem'?
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Nov 27 2012, 08:03 PM
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QUOTE (Richard Garvie @ Nov 21 2012, 08:54 PM) Tuition fees. EMA. The NHS reforms. Wealth tax. McNulty report. Need I go on??
As for joining the Lib Dems, it would have made it easier for me to get elected with the resources your party has. Sometimes principles come first, and no matter what was discussed, I would never have been able to justify joining a party that sold out on almost everything they believed in for the perks of Government. Also, no matter what resources you have locally, you have very little vision, no positivity and no future. Whether I ever get elected or not, I can sleep at night knowing I made the right decision. At election political parties have manifestos. In those manifestos they lay out their plans if they are elected to govern this country. The Lib Dems came third, while the Tories didn't get a majority to govern on their own. As all Manifestos were rejected parties had to start afresh and work with other parties. This meant re-looking at what they wanted out of their manifestos. The Lib Dems didn't lie but had to renegotiate want they wanted, and so did the Tories. They then settled on a compromise. That is what happens when parties don't get a majority. So I say to you again; where did we lie? To your second point. Principles are no good without power. In power we can do more good than we can outside.
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Nov 27 2012, 08:23 PM
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QUOTE (Spider @ Nov 27 2012, 08:03 PM) At election political parties have manifestos. In those manifestos they lay out their plans if they are elected to govern this country. The Lib Dems came third, while the Tories didn't get a majority to govern on their own. As all Manifestos were rejected parties had to start afresh and work with other parties. This meant re-looking at what they wanted out of their manifestos. The Lib Dems didn't lie but had to renegotiate want they wanted, and so did the Tories. They then settled on a compromise. That is what happens when parties don't get a majority. So I say to you again; where did we lie?
To your second point. Principles are no good without power. In power we can do more good than we can outside. I think therefore you have answered the original question then? They gave up all their principles to obtain power!
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Vexatious Candidate?
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Nov 27 2012, 08:33 PM
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QUOTE (Richard Garvie @ Nov 20 2012, 07:10 AM) When have they told the truth?? as often as any other political party. ie when is prudent for them to do so.
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Nov 27 2012, 08:50 PM
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QUOTE (Spider @ Nov 27 2012, 08:29 PM) Answer me a question. How is any party supposed to achieve change without power? What are principles but an empty cup? I am not one of those people that talk about principles and then stand on the side lines watching the world go by and moaning. Let us be honest. Those that have sacrificed principles for power have achieved more. Just look at Labour and the Tories. I do believe you have now confirmed what we have always suspected - never trust what a politician utters - they are only in it for one thing power! And to obtain it they will say, do or promise anything to get it and then completely renege on the deal when they obtain the power they crave.
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Vexatious Candidate?
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Nov 27 2012, 08:53 PM
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QUOTE (Richard Garvie @ Nov 27 2012, 08:32 PM) Clegg has admitted that the Fib Dems lied about Tuition Fees. Remember the song?? He actually said that we shouldn't have made the promise in the first place. Which is something totally different.
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Nov 27 2012, 09:03 PM
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QUOTE (Spider @ Nov 27 2012, 08:56 PM) I think you are being sweet and naive here. Politics is a ruthless game. Those that are more determined achieve more. Those that are sweet and nice vanish without trace. The Lib Dems learned an important lesson when they formed a coalition with the Tories. It is ok making sweet and nice promises when you've got no chance of power, but when you have then it is time to get real. I agree that politics is about being "ruthless" but you do talk some crap sometimes.
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