Newbury Town Council precept Options

[JeffG]

The post about the the market cleansing contract reminded me I was going to ask the following.

In the NTC leaflet that came with the Council Tax bill, there is £4.03 in the precept for the Newbury Neighbourhood Warden Scheme. I was under the impression that this was a service provided by Sovereign for the benefit of Housing Association tenants, so why is it a general tax?

[NWNREADER]

As I've said elsewhere, and in agreement with what Simon et al say about accounting methods.... Council Tax raises can easily be massaged by Parish Councils and non-LA 'agencies' taking on costs that are then added to the 'Council Tax' as a precept. End user pays more, but the Council can rightly(?) claim their Council Tax has not gone up/not gone up any more than a Central Govt edict requires.

[JeffG]

End user pays more

Not only the end user, but everybody, which is the point I was making.

[Simon Kirby]

The post about the the market cleansing contract reminded me I was going to ask the following.

In the NTC leaflet that came with the Council Tax bill, there is £4.03 in the precept for the Newbury Neighbourhood Warden Scheme. I was under the impression that this was a service provided by Sovereign for the benefit of Housing Association tenants, so why is it a general tax?

I believe that the Neighbourhood Wardens also patrol other non-Sovereign areas - they certainly patrol Stuart Road in Wash Common where I live. My neighbour David Fenn is a town councillor so you could always mail him and see why he thinks quiet middle-class neighbourhoods need tax-payer-funded patrols.

NTC use £54,500 of the precept to fund the Neighbourhood Wardens; they give £53,000 to Sovereign Housing Association, add £500 to administer the transfer, and it costs us another £1,000 in back-office and administration overhead costs.

[JeffG]

What are they anyway? Some vigilante quasi-police force?

[Andy Capp]

I thought Neighbourhood Wardens were a way of trying to make people feel a little more secure, and for them to be the eye's and ears of the neighbourhood, the eyes and ears once occupied by milkmen, the police, and the posties who now have to jog round their round.

[Andy Capp]

What are they anyway? Some vigilante quasi-police force?

Ear you are http://www.westberks.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=15807

[Simon Kirby]

What are they anyway? Some vigilante quasi-police force?

Who NTC? Yes, I suppose they are really.

[JeffG]

I thought Neighbourhood Wardens were a way of trying to make people feel a little more secure, and for them to be the eye's and ears of the neighbourhood, the eyes and ears once occupied by milkmen, the police, and the posties who now have to jog round their round.

So how does that differ from the rôle of the PCSO? Some overlap there, surely?

[Andy Capp]

So how does that differ from the rôle of the PCSO? Some overlap there, surely?

I'm only the messenger!

[Cognosco]

What are they anyway? Some vigilante quasi-police force?

Don't know I have yet to see one!

PCSO's have not made any difference to vandalism, ASBO and such so why do the council think Wardens are able to assist?

[JeffG]

I'm only the messenger!

Well, I didn't shoot you (did I?)

[On the edge]

So, keeping Her Majesty's peace we have

Police Constables (the office of constable swears allegiance to the crown)
Police Community Support Officers
Community Wardens
Traffic Wardens (or whatever they call themselves these days)
supplemented by
Neighbourhood Watch Co-ordinators
Private Security Guards (Tesco, Sainsbury, Kennet Centre, etc. etc)

And the Postman, Meter Reader, Refuse Collector, Sovereign maintenance crews etc. etc. who still all call.
Do feel more secure? Angry, yes, ripped off, yes, powerless, yes, less secure? NO.

What do all these people actually do all day?

[Cognosco]

So, keeping Her Majesty's peace we have

Police Constables (the office of constable swears allegiance to the crown)
Police Community Support Officers
Community Wardens
Traffic Wardens (or whatever they call themselves these days)
supplemented by
Neighbourhood Watch Co-ordinators
Private Security Guards (Tesco, Sainsbury, Kennet Centre, etc. etc)

And the Postman, Meter Reader, Refuse Collector, Sovereign maintenance crews etc. etc. who still all call.
Do feel more secure? Angry, yes, ripped off, yes, powerless, yes, less secure? NO.

What do all these people actually[b] do all day?[/b]

It makes larger Empires! Plus of course it helps keeps the unemployed numbers look good?

[On the edge]

Think you are quite right - particularly the empire bit! Is there some way we could encourage one at least of this group to form a band - then once a year at least, we could have them marching round Market Square the Mayor taking the salute.

[Simon Kirby]

The post about the the market cleansing contract reminded me I was going to ask the following.

In the NTC leaflet that came with the Council Tax bill, there is £4.03 in the precept for the Newbury Neighbourhood Warden Scheme. I was under the impression that this was a service provided by Sovereign for the benefit of Housing Association tenants, so why is it a general tax?

Here's a full breakdown of where all the precept goes.

CODE

                        Revenue         Running Costs   Staff Costs     Gross Service Cost      Net Service Cost
Market                  £ 31,900        £ 36,212        £ 20,539        £   94,633              £   62,733      
Floral Displays         £  2,250        £ 22,763        £ 13,906        £   62,319              £   60,069      
Christmas Lights                        £ 25,000        £  2,907        £   33,271              £   33,271      
Cemeteries              £ 40,000        £ 92,660        £ 29,601        £  176,858              £  136,858      
Administration                          £ 70,635        £123,125        
Parks and Open Spaces   £  5,948        £212,283        £ 60,384        £  384,039              £  378,091      
Allotments              £ 19,570        £ 25,054        £ 35,048        £  124,746              £  105,176      
Town Hall               £ 33,100        £ 51,650        £ 69,160                
Civic Duties                            £ 19,275        £ 36,939                
Committee                               £  9,113        £  6,435        £   27,418              £   27,418      
WBC Toilets                             £ 19,483        £    185        £   20,010              £   20,010      
Neighbourhood Wardens                   £ 53,000        £    556        £   54,583              £   54,583      
Young People's Council                  £  2,000        £  3,714                
Clocks and Grit Bins                    £ 21,000        £ 20,330        £   78,826              £   78,826      
Grants                                  £ 39,337        £      0        £   39,336              £   39,336      
Election Expenses                       £  6,800        £    110                
Flood Alleviation                       £  9,000        £     36        £    9,104              £    9,104      
Total                   £132,768        £715,265        £422,984        £1,105,149              £1,005,481

Blackdog mentioned the difficulty of understanding the need for such a large staff, and this breakdown illustrates that - the council don't directly publish these data so they don't particularly want you to know. Nearly £70k of staff costs allocated to the town hall is really peculiar, and around £30k of staffing for the cemeteries is also unexplained when you understand that the cemeteries are not maintained by direct labour. £35k to staff the allotment service is just ridiculous when the town has six sites, because as I've mentioned before that's basically the same level of staffing that Birmingham City Council has and they have the largest number of sites of any municipality at 115. £37k of staffing just to manage the civic duties is just grotesque.

[blackdog]

What is this 'gross service cost' column? Your way of adding £60k to the cost of running the allotments?

[Simon Kirby]

What is this 'gross service cost' column? Your way of adding £60k to the cost of running the allotments?

Why do you have to be facetious?

The gross service cost includes all of the costs of providing the service without any of the revenue. So the Gross Service Cost head is the sum of the service team staff costs, the running costs, and the back-office administrative staff and overheads - it's not my idea, it's how a business would reckon their costs to see if they were turning a profit or not. The Net Service Cost gives you the true cost of the various services.

[On the edge]

I must admit I'm totally confused about how NTC calculate and allocate costs. We are paying a huge amount for what is, in effect admin. If the costs of the operations are split out; any overhead that can't be attributed should be allocated on a percentage basis. Showing it as separate heads is causing confusion; leading to wonder if it isn't deliberate.

The administration of the area should be the province of WBC the UNITARY authority. We simply can't afford these games anymore.

[NWNREADER]

Why do you have to be facetious?

The gross service cost includes all of the costs of providing the service without any of the revenue. So the Gross Service Cost head is the sum of the service team staff costs, the running costs, and the back-office administrative staff and overheads - it's not my idea, it's how a business would reckon their costs to see if they were turning a profit or not. The Net Service Cost gives you the true cost of the various services.

So....
To my simple mind the Gross figure should be the sum of the running costs and staff costs, and the nett figure should be that less any revenue? Otherwise there is double counting of admin?