Police checks on everybody who comes into contact with kids Options

[Darren]

Ian Huntley was allowed to work as he did because of a failure of a system, not the absence of one.

There was no system nationally. It took the Bichard report to recommend one. Up til then, information about allegations was only held locally as there was no proof. Any criminal convictions were recorded nationally.

When the next Ian Huntley and Maxine Carr come along - and they will - these requirements will help stop them getting into positions of trust/authority/responsibility. There is now way to be 100% certain as abusers rely on their power over the abused to ensure silence and compliance.

If it saves one child, then it's worth it.

[Iommi]

There was no system nationally. It took the Bichard report to recommend one. Up til then, information about allegations was only held locally as there was no proof. Any criminal convictions were recorded nationally.

Exactly, the system failed, it only needed to join the system up that's all.

When the next Ian Huntley and Maxine Carr come along - and they will - these requirements will help stop them getting into positions of trust/authority/responsibility. There is now way to be 100% certain as abusers rely on their power over the abused to ensure silence and compliance. If it saves one child, then it's worth it.

Like the gun law stopped gun crime! This is another ill thought-out idea by this useless Government. Thousands of children will suffer due to this, in the hope it might stop a determined killer.

[Strafin]

If it saves one child, then it's worth it.

Do you want to pay for mine then please?

[user23]

First of all I put the topic up as a poser to create a debate. However, I do think it is over the top bureaucracy and I think we might be taking our eye of the ball.

Our eye off which ball?

[GMR]

Our eye off which ball?

Concentrating on people who do have a record and forgetting about those that don’t, but are still capable of abusing.

[dannyboy]

Concentrating on people who do have a record and forgetting about those that don’t, but are still capable of abusing.

So, come on then - what is yopur suggestion to stop unsavoury characters offering to help with kids activities when they have an ulterior motive?
Seems to me that a quick CPR check - you know finding out that the nice man was arrested for indecent exposure in a city 250 miles away 15 years ago - is better than not doing anything.

[On the edge]

I love Big Brother, I love Big Brother, I love Big Brother, I love Big Brother

[GMR]

So, come on then - what is yopur suggestion to stop unsavoury characters offering to help with kids activities when they have an ulterior motive?
Seems to me that a quick CPR check - you know finding out that the nice man was arrested for indecent exposure in a city 250 miles away 15 years ago - is better than not doing anything.

I am not an expert, however, I was listening to Esther Rantzen - of the protection for kids or whatever it is called - and she said we are taking a sledge hammer to crack a nut. "We are over egging the pudding." Instead of helping kids we are creating a very dangerous, wary and paranoid society. I agree with her. Yes... we do need to put some things in place, but I think the government are going over the top. Other child protectors have come forward and have said the same. It seems only the government - who are paranoid and doing it to make them look good (they hope) - and a very few outsiders who want this. We are the most legislated country in the world concerning child protection.

[Iommi]

Yes, the sub text to this is that if you don't have a CPR card then you might be a paedo! This is a sad day for being a Man. We are scared top help a child because of this paranoia.

[Darren]

Do you want to pay for mine then please?

Eh?

[dannyboy]

I am not an expert, however, I was listening to Esther Rantzen - of the protection for kids or whatever it is called - and she said we are taking a sledge hammer to crack a nut. "We are over egging the pudding." Instead of helping kids we are creating a very dangerous, wary and paranoid society. I agree with her. Yes... we do need to put some things in place, but I think the government are going over the top. Other child protectors have come forward and have said the same. It seems only the government - who are paranoid and doing it to make them look good (they hope) - and a very few outsiders who want this. We are the most legislated country in the world concerning child protection.

very interesting, but, as usual you have avoided the question. Are you an MP by any chance?

[GMR]

very interesting, but, as usual you have avoided the question. Are you an MP by any chance?

And as MP's are the moral compass and superior by me saying yes would make a big difference.

You would thing people who work with children would actually know more than MP's.

[dannyboy]

And as MP's are the moral compass and superior by me saying yes would make a big difference.

You would thing people who work with children would actually know more than MP's.

still no answer!! very good!!

who's talking about You would thing people who work with children would actually know more than MP's. do I dectect side traking, to avoid actually coming up with a constructive answer to the original question!! superb!!

[GMR]

still no answer!! very good!!

who's talking about You would thing people who work with children would actually know more than MP's. do I dectect side traking, to avoid actually coming up with a constructive answer to the original question!! superb!!

But I can't say more than I already have. You also must remember other people on this thread also don't agree that more legislation will help. You do, that doesn't make it right.

We all want to help kids and protect them, but there is such a thing as over egging the pudding. Just listen to some of the experts who disagree with the government on this.

[dannyboy]

But I can't say more than I already have. You also must remember other people on this thread also don't agree that more legislation will help. You do, that doesn't make it right.

We all want to help kids and protect them, but there is such a thing as over egging the pudding. Just listen to some of the experts who disagree with the government on this.

you havn't said anything. apart from rehash other people's opinions.
So, what would you do to ensure that those people offering to help, run activities etc for children are not hiding something or there for some peado reason?
I'm, obviously, not saying that people who do offer to help in such activities are a threat, but a very small percentage are.
I'm also aware of the negative aspect this can have in society - I'm a member of a local club that has a 'no children' policy, expressly because of all the red tape allowing children to join would involve. Naturally I don't suspect any of my fellow club members of being likely to harm a child, but it is simply easier to not have child members.

[GMR]

you havn't said anything. apart from rehash other people's opinions.
So, what would you do to ensure that those people offering to help, run activities etc for children are not hiding something or there for some peado reason?
I'm, obviously, not saying that people who do offer to help in such activities are a threat, but a very small percentage are.
I'm also aware of the negative aspect this can have in society - I'm a member of a local club that has a 'no children' policy, expressly because of all the red tape allowing children to join would involve. Naturally I don't suspect any of my fellow club members of being likely to harm a child, but it is simply easier to not have child members.

Actually they’ve rehashed my opinions.

I really can’t add anything to what I’ve already said and quoting those in the ‘know’. The fears are, and as you pointed out, have created a paranoid society and would what we’ve done really stop the next Huntley from abusing children? It might actually perpetuate it; everybody things we are so protected that we’ve dropped our guard allowing another abuser to slip in. Before people were on their guard more. Also it will also turn people from volunteering.

[dannyboy]

Actually they’ve rehashed my opinions.

I really can’t add anything to what I’ve already said and quoting those in the ‘know’. The fears are, and as you pointed out, have created a paranoid society and would what we’ve done really stop the next Huntley from abusing children? It might actually perpetuate it; everybody things we are so protected that we’ve dropped our guard allowing another abuser to slip in. Before people were on their guard more. Also it will also turn people from volunteering.

so basically then you are saying do nothing. Sound familiar?

[GMR]

so basically then you are saying do nothing. Sound familiar?

Where did I say that? We've already had good legislation in place. More isn't necessarily going to achieve better protection... just more bureaucracy and more chance of another abuser slipping through the net.