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Burglar killed, Homeowner released without charge |
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Apr 6 2018, 08:28 PM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Apr 6 2018, 08:45 PM) Interesting and tragic case.
I fully sympathise with the home owner but has this not now set a precedent?
If you are being burgled violently do you have the right to protect you and your family by any means necessary?
Hopefully this makes burglars think twice. Though I doubt it as most have drug issues. The MSM always trawls out the rights you have to fight back in your own home according to law. As far as I am concerned, if you cross a border, uninvited, you lose all rights and deserve what you get. Death included. kcuf the scum.
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There their, loose loser!
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Apr 6 2018, 08:45 PM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Apr 6 2018, 08:45 PM) Interesting and tragic case.
I fully sympathise with the home owner but has this not now set a precedent?
If you are being burgled violently do you have the right to protect you and your family by any means necessary?
Hopefully this makes burglars think twice. Though I doubt it as most have drug issues. Yep.
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Apr 6 2018, 09:55 PM
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QUOTE (newres @ Apr 6 2018, 10:19 PM) I’d say if you go into someone’s home armed, you can’t complain if you get hurt. Rough justice, but hey ho. Do you think the lack of stop and search has emboldened the youth of London to more often than not be "tooled up" when they go out? I know racial profiling is a dreadful thing but what alternative is there? At the end of the day nearly all fatalities have been young and black. What do you suggest? I'm interested to hear the views of liberal minded people like yourself who would probably be anti stop and search. I know we have had cuts but London still has more police as a percentage of population than anywhere else in the UK.
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Apr 7 2018, 04:49 AM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Apr 6 2018, 10:55 PM) Do you think the lack of stop and search has emboldened the youth of London to more often than not be "tooled up" when they go out? I know racial profiling is a dreadful thing but what alternative is there? At the end of the day nearly all fatalities have been young and black. What do you suggest? I'm interested to hear the views of liberal minded people like yourself who would probably be anti stop and search. I know we have had cuts but London still has more police as a percentage of population than anywhere else in the UK. I don’t think stop and search was used fairly and hence why it was stopped. The average policeman is not very intelligent and used the power in a prejudicial way. However I don’t think that’s the “cause”. As an aside what happened to the police plan for graduate only entrance. The culture of the police really does need to change. They see themselves as deliverers of “justice” rather than upholding the law and seeking the truth. Through all the abuse of Muslims recently I had thought that the greatest beneficiaries were the blacks as people stopped hating them for a while. Back to your question though, the causes are the same causes affecting White deprived kids I think, but with the added problem of single mothers and young men that don’t stay around to be fathers. Add in drugs and turf wars. A single thing that could be done to help would be to legalise cannabis. This would end their income and stop much of the cause of the turf wars. Short term, the solution to the problem is the same as many of our solutions - raise taxes, put more and better educated police on the street and reintroduce stop and search as well as focussed task forces on gang related violence and legalise cannabis. Unfortunately both raising taxes and legalising cannabis are taboo.
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Apr 7 2018, 08:53 AM
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QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Apr 7 2018, 09:27 AM) The question that I would like to pose is do people commit crimes because they are driven by some perverse reasoning that the end justifies the means or are they not aware that their actions are completely antisocial? The thought of committing burglary or sticking a knife in someone is a complete anathema to most, so why is it so prevalent? Is the drug problem the root cause or is it something a little more complex? There are interesting parallels with the American position in that "the only way to stop a bad man with a gun is a good guy with one", seems to gaining application over here. If the law allowed I would carry a pistol just in case. Now that is not a sensible approach but my family,friends safety comes first and unless the powers that be get a grip I can see it becoming the norm. There's an argument to say that withdrawing stop and search led to more people carrying guns because they know that those that might have been deterred by sus are no longer so deterred.
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Apr 7 2018, 11:53 AM
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QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Apr 7 2018, 10:34 AM) I thought stop and search still existed? What was stopped was stop and search because they is black, in other words, it had to be for reasons other than the colour of their skin, Exactly; the Met decided not to use these powers generally after formal enquiries revealed that they were abusing their authority usually in the way you describe.
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Apr 7 2018, 12:22 PM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Apr 7 2018, 12:53 PM) Exactly; the Met decided not to use these powers generally after formal enquiries revealed that they were abusing their authority usually in the way you describe. They were using profiling. If you are young and black in London you are more likely to carry a knife or be a victim of a knife attack than white or asian youngsters. That's just an unfortunate fact. Abandoning profiling is a mistake. Its uncomfortable but the other choice is lots more dead black teenagers. You can't have it both ways.
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Apr 7 2018, 03:01 PM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Apr 7 2018, 01:22 PM) They were using profiling. If you are young and black in London you are more likely to carry a knife or be a victim of a knife attack than white or asian youngsters. That's just an unfortunate fact. Abandoning profiling is a mistake. Its uncomfortable but the other choice is lots more dead black teenagers. You can't have it both ways. Ah yes, of course. Then, the lads who did for Stephen Lawrence weren't black were they? No, you can't have it both ways, but you can do your job properly.
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Apr 7 2018, 03:33 PM
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Following the Tony Martin case some years back there was a change in the law, and householders are now permitted to use "disproportionate force" when a burglar threatens householder or other members of the family. This is why this recent shooting (+ murder) of a burglar in Colnbrook didn't lead to a prosecution of the householder. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-42100525
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Apr 7 2018, 04:14 PM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Apr 7 2018, 04:01 PM) Ah yes, of course.
Then, the lads who did for Stephen Lawrence weren't black were they?
No, you can't have it both ways, but you can do your job properly. The Stephen Lawrence case was awful and they are WHITE scum, but this is the exception to the rule, if you look at pictures of fatalities this year.
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Apr 7 2018, 07:58 PM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Apr 7 2018, 05:14 PM) The Stephen Lawrence case was awful and they are WHITE scum, but this is the exception to the rule, if you look at pictures of fatalities this year. It's quite a big exception if you take a period of time and do a proper analysis. It's actually quite easy to properly justify 'shop and search' without using preset predudice and, ironically, secure a better clear up rate. I'm sure you can see that not all black man is walking through an areas of high crime are criminals anymore than is the expectation that all lorry drivers are using a mobile phone whilst driving.
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Apr 8 2018, 05:30 AM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Apr 7 2018, 08:58 PM) It's quite a big exception if you take a period of time and do a proper analysis.
It's actually quite easy to properly justify 'shop and search' without using preset predudice and, ironically, secure a better clear up rate.
I'm sure you can see that not all black man is walking through an areas of high crime are criminals anymore than is the expectation that all lorry drivers are using a mobile phone whilst driving. or all black men in BMWs are pimps or drug dealers. It’s not profiling, it’s prefudice and the average policeman on the beat isn’t too bright either although I think that’s changing.
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Apr 8 2018, 07:58 AM
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QUOTE (newres @ Apr 8 2018, 06:30 AM) or all black men in BMWs are pimps or drug dealers. It’s not profiling, it’s prefudice and the average policeman on the beat isn’t too bright either although I think that’s changing. Fortunatley it us beginning to change, but it's going to be a long time. One of the biggest problems has been the command structure; where essentially the 'best operator' gets the promotion. Fast track graduate entry is now becoming the norm and will eventually lead to properly educated and trained seniors. Much as I might rail against it, the Police are a classic example demonstrating the benefits of the French and German approach to management and senior level roles, which are only avaliable to those who already hold academic qualification.
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